PVP = who can spam more CCs, its not pvp

Monsoon

ZOS you know very well the problems in Cyrodill. You know AD is three times the numbers of the other factions on Thornblade. You know Streak+Firering+batswarm is being abused and you know there are way way too many CCs in PVP.

Being CCed to death is NOT pvp. Are you going to do something about it? Who kills who in Cyrodill is decided by who was the first to CC the other.

Some counter CCs also do not work all the time. Some people are un-killable it is rather ridiculous. When are you going to actually look into Cyrodill and combat zones and do something about the pop imbalance? Why are you giving bonuses to the faction that facerolls the others because they have more numbers?

Way too many CCs and being CCed to death in Cyrodill

semp3rfi

I hate CC orientated games, but that seems to be the norm these days. I would have thought a general rule in mmos for cc would apply but it seems not

A CC ability should not be a Nuke ability or high damage. It is meant to make an opening for a nuke, or to prevent one.

A CC ability Should not be able to kill anything it is spammed on

A CC ability should provide immunity for a duration to prevent stunlock

AoE CCS should be a Mez and Break on damage

MMO developers need to get away from the current trend, Players losing control of their characters is NOT fun. CC needs to be tactical and not a first strike. Especially in eso as you only have so many spots for abilities.

I remeber in an earlier build of Age of conan, players would always save their cc and wait for their opponent to go for the nuke, or the large heal. If they used it up front they had no way to stop certain abilities, and could cost them heavily. Instead of hitting first with the cc, players would wait and watch until they knew their opponent had used theirs and then go for the big hit knowing they couldnt be stopped.

the power needs to go back into players hands and not stun lock

JLB

Totally agree, it's a CC race, and the problem is stun immunity not working and, when it works, it lasts for too short.
Fix Break Free so it works every time on any kind of CC, increase immunity to reach 10s, problem solved.
I also think Health should be higher in PvP basically to fix a bit the 2s deaths. Its way too easy now with a chain CC and a couple of hard hitting skills coped with animation cancelling. Way too easy and boring.

Cody

its not as as bad as WoWs.... though it is pretty bad, I agree.

Dudis

So you want numbers to allways win then? CC is needed to give the little guy a chance to fight off larger numbers.

I do agree that CC break/immunity doesn't work properly a lot of the time but that's no reason to remove CC, it's a reason to fix those things. Some CCs also need immunity added to them (roots).

All CC (except when it bugs out) can be broken/dodged out of, that is unless you zerg and 20 sorcs bubbles the whole courtyard, in which case i feel sorry for you, come do some real pvp instead...

semp3rfi

Dudis wrote: »

So you want numbers to allways win then? CC is needed to give the little guy a chance to fight off larger numbers.

I do agree that CC break/immunity doesn't work properly a lot of the time but that's no reason to remove CC, it's a reason to fix those things. Some CCs also need immunity added to them (roots).

All CC (except when it bugs out) can be broken/dodged out of, that is unless you zerg and 20 sorcs bubbles the whole courtyard, in which case i feel sorry for you, come do some real pvp instead...

numbers do generally win (there are exceptions but not many). the more numbers there are, the more CC that is going to bombarded down on the little guy. its not exactly that helpful. In fact, if there was no CC, you would be seeing above average pvpers take down hoards of below average players because they cant lock him down.

CC needs to be a tool, not the tip of the spear. unfortunately because the game is so cc heavy, there are abilities like bolt escape, dragons blood, blazing shield that would be out of control if CC was taken out.

breaking CC and dodge rolling is all very well for magicka builds, but part of the reason stamina has it so hard

IMO, fixing cc break, increasing immunity and removing the damage off of all CC would turn it into a tool. You would have to decide if you wanted to use up a slot on your bar for crowd control or damage.

Sorcers encase is a good example. no damage.

eliisra

Cody wrote: »

its not as as bad as WoWs.... though it is pretty bad, I agree.

I haven't played WoW much, but at least there you have multiple tools to break out of CC (that actually works) from what I've noticed.

WoW also have less burst compared to player health. You can take more hits, before you die. In ESO the TTK is very low, people consistently die 2-4 hits. So who ever lands the first CC usually wins. Getting CC'ed in large scale fights, also means instant death. Your health goes down to zero, before you manage to get back up.

I played plenty of MMO's with just as much CC as in ESO. But in those games you had way more counters against it. You also had more control over healing and better survival skills all around.

That's why the CC-marathon is so problematic in this game. We dont have enough health and damage reduction, to afford being stuck in CC.

Dudis

semp3rfi wrote: »

numbers do generally win (there are exceptions but not many). the more numbers there are, the more CC that is going to bombarded down on the little guy. its not exactly that helpful. In fact, if there was no CC, you would be seeing above average pvpers take down hoards of below average players because they cant lock him down.

It's damn near impossible to kill a decent player unless you can CC him.

I think we're talking about entirely different things. When i say "the little guy" I mean a solo player or small group taking on much larger groups.

I almost exclusively run a duo with a friend and we seek to take on 5+ people at a time in open field and we're generally pretty successful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRbelfV-DVE

We're two guys fighting 10+ people in many of those clips, does it look like we have a lot of problems with CC? Neither of us run Immovable either.

hasselhoffman

Upping HP will make Templars nearly impossible to kill.

Armitas

There should be a rhythm to CC with regular beats and pauses. Right now it's just a single note held down to exhaustion. Immunity is suppose to provide the pauses that create a balanced rhythm however that system is not always providing those pauses.

Skwor

hasselhoffman wrote: »

Upping HP will make Templars nearly impossible to kill.

LOL nothing about DKs? DKs are significantly harder to drop than a Temp.

Skwor

Armitas wrote: »

There should be a rhythm to CC with regular beats and pauses. Right now it's just a single note held down to exhaustion. Immunity is suppose to provide the pauses that create a balanced rhythm however that system is not always providing those pauses.

Spot on, breaks need to work and immunity needs to be longer and cut across the board, immunity needs to prevent any CC after a successful break for a longer period of time.

semp3rfi

Dudis wrote: »

semp3rfi wrote: »

numbers do generally win (there are exceptions but not many). the more numbers there are, the more CC that is going to bombarded down on the little guy. its not exactly that helpful. In fact, if there was no CC, you would be seeing above average pvpers take down hoards of below average players because they cant lock him down.

It's damn near impossible to kill a decent player unless you can CC him.

I think we're talking about entirely different things. When i say "the little guy" I mean a solo player or small group taking on much larger groups.

I almost exclusively run a duo with a friend and we seek to take on 5+ people at a time in open field and we're generally pretty successful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRbelfV-DVE

We're two guys fighting 10+ people in many of those clips, does it look like we have a lot of problems with CC? Neither of us run Immovable either.

no I see you dont, but the guys you were fighting certainly had a problem with CC. Lets be clear strong players like yourself will always be strong, regardless of there being CC or not.

your video actually kind of showed the problem. Between the two of you, you can do great damage to many people, yet nearly every ability on your bar is a CC/AoE CC. Just from a brief look i could see Talons, Dragon leap, Nova, invasion, toppling charge, standard, blazing spear, ash cloud.

Having that much CC on your bar should make your damage suffer but it doesnt.

Makkir

Monsoon wrote: »

Way too many CCs and being CCed to death in Cyrodill

You must not play World of Stuncraft

timidobserver

I think they tried to fix the population imbalance. Things were actually very spread out and interesting immediately following the campaign changes. Then suddenly, for some reason, everyone on Bow of Shadow's fled to Chilrend.

Mojomonkeyman

If cc would work like intended it would be fine imo. CC is in general very healthy, even necessary for skill based pvp, it`s just that counters need to actually do what they`re made for.

Duels between skilled players on roughly the same level usually last very long in this game. I`d even say burstspecs are a bit too weak compared to the tankyness of half of the classes.

Which leads to them desperately needing cc to be able to finish fights before the ressource war is decided (the ressource war will naturally advantage the tankier setup).

Games consisting of tanks bashing on each other for hours with no option for well timed bursts are quite boring and not very skillful, the margin for error is just too high. So I`m all for a variety of well thought out soft & hard cc`s, as long as the counters are equally well thought out & implemented,

Regards

bitaken

The QQ is strong in this thread.

Game devs cannot hold your block for you.

When was the last time you got CC'd to death while holding your block and - then - counter attacking.

This is more likely a L2P issue honestly.

Skwor

bitaken wrote: »

The QQ is strong in this thread.

Game devs cannot hold your block for you.

When was the last time you got CC'd to death while holding your block and - then - counter attacking.

This is more likely a L2P issue honestly.

Every-night. Do you even play this game? Seriously go into any battle with more than 10 competitors and you will be CC'd to death. I have block up nearly always unless I am running in a coordinated group.

Yes there is to much CC and too little and mostly broken counters to CC.

Clansman2013

Personally, I do think having CC is necessary, however, getting into a fight where I spend the entire time stunned or on the ground unable to act before I die, is incredibly annoying.

Maybe if they added a universal immunity timer or something?

dcincali

Clansman2013 wrote: »

Personally, I do think having CC is necessary, however, getting into a fight where I spend the entire time stunned or on the ground unable to act before I die, is incredibly annoying.

Maybe if they added a universal immunity timer or something?

They did but it's not working.

bitaken

skwornub18_ESO wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

The QQ is strong in this thread.

Game devs cannot hold your block for you.

When was the last time you got CC'd to death while holding your block and - then - counter attacking.

This is more likely a L2P issue honestly.

Every-night. Do you even play this game? Seriously go into any battle with more than 10 competitors and you will be CC'd to death. I have block up nearly always unless I am running in a coordinated group.

Yes there is to much CC and too little and mostly broken counters to CC.

I wonder if some of you play the same game I do seriously. Maybe it's your role - or your lack of situational awareness - I can only guess as to what your problems are. Yes, when I run out of stamina I die - that's sort of the point though I guess. If you need peals you get them from your team - or you die. I mean it is an MMO death is inevitable.