All health, no stamina/magicka builds?

Muizer

I've picked up some signals here and in-game that putting all your points in health can be a good move. I suppose for tanks? I'm just curious, when/why would that be a good idea?

kitsinni

I think what they were saying was you put all of your attribute points in to Health. Then your gear and jewelry all have enchants for whatever primary stat you actually use. You can get to the Overcharge point with any stat without putting a single attribute point in to Magicka or Stamina. If you do vet dungeons or PvP you are going to need as much health as you can get. That is why typically people put all attribute points in the Health. It is not necessary to do this while leveling you can respec your attribute points once you are VR1.

Aenra

where do those signals, of smoke or otherwise, hail from exactly? A certain guild's forum guides perhaps?

in PvP, health is an obvious benefit, especially currently where soft caps in most attribute-derived statistics (ie your DPS, crit, et al) are implemented. Even so, caps are to soon be removed, so you can expect some degree of variation even in this aspect of the game.

PvE-wise, tanks you already mentioned; for the other roles, much to the disagreement of all the people that will comment after me here, i like stacking. Be it magicka or stamina. Not health
(it all adds up, soft cap nonwithstanding)

Muizer

Why not use the gear/jewelry to raise health and the attributes for magicka or stamina though? It amounts to the same thing?

The only real reason I can think of atm is that it's to avoid getting wiped out in a PVP surprise attack where you have no time to activate shields.

Tigeracer

You get more from attribute points actually.

NukaCola

Correct me if im wrong but as far as i know HP doesn't suffer from overcharge. So it is better to put all points to health. You can buff other stats with gear and enchants to reach overcharged status. I run sorcerer with all points in health.

eliisra

Tigeracer wrote: »

You get more from attribute points actually.

You dont get more attributes by jamming all points into health. Don't think that's been the case since beta. But there's still firm believers, probably based on people reading old guides.

Can just as well put attribute points in magicka and stamina, than use glyphs to get health.

Stratti

I'm a tank with food is around 3200 HP at V12 - 1952 Stam and 1400 magicka. That's been enough resources for all trials - some pulls in Crypts get low but mostly good.

49H is a remnant of the old softcap system . You need around 2300-2400 HP for trials as a dps . Lots of ways that people might try as softcaps are removed

Nestor

eliisra wrote: »

Can just as well put attribute points in magicka and stamina, than use glyphs to get health.

Yes, and it all works out about the same in the end, if you have the right enchantments and jewelery. However, by focusing on one stat, you can adjust your other stats based on the gear you use or find, or crafted/dropped sets without a respec. You can also focus your gear more so this way.

Health seems to make the most sense to put your points in, as that is the one stat you may want to grow more with enchantments than anything else. Health is what keeps you alive, the other stats are for killing the enemy.

AlnilamE

I thought you got +15 per attribute point in health aand only +10 per attribute point in Magica and Stamina. Not in game right now, so I can't double-check.

flemmingrohdb16_ESO

AlnilamE wrote: »

I thought you got +15 per attribute point in health aand only +10 per attribute point in Magica and Stamina. Not in game right now, so I can't double-check.

that is correct

but they adjusted the enchants for armor, so health enchants also give 50% more than magicka/stamina
which means, it doesnt really matter, if you get your health from levels or from armor

they did miss one thing though, jewelry!
rings and necklaces still give same amount of health/magicka/stamina, so for those you have to be sure to get either stamina or magicka

madangrypally

Stats:
Attribute Point: 15 Health or 10 Magicka or 10 Stamina
Enchant: Health is 50% greater then Magicka/Stamina enchants.
Set Bonus: Health is 50% greater then Magicka/Stamina bonuses.
Jewelry: Health is the same as Magicka/Stamina Jewelry
Food Buffs: Health value is the same as Magicka/Stamina Food Values
Mundus Stones: Do not recommend.


This means it is best to use Attribute Points, Health Enchants, and Set bonuses for Health as they gain a 50% bonus over Magicka or Stamina. Jewelry is better with the Magicka or Stamina.

Most damage shield values scale based on Health. If using a damage shield build then it will be wise to as much health from the most optimal sources.

A good example of class differences is Templar and Sorcerer. Both have abilities that operate differently an thus changes the best use of stat allocation.

Nestor

AlnilamE wrote: »

I thought you got +15 per attribute point in health aand only +10 per attribute point in Magica and Stamina. Not in game right now, so I can't double-check.

Yes, but you also get a similar type of increase from Enchantments, where Health gives 50% more than a Mana or Stamina Glyph. But, the 15 points from the Attribute point for Health make it easy to decide to dump it all into health and adjust the other attributes with Glyphs.

I had two characters where I was balancing, more or less, the attribute points between Health and Mana. When I respecced both of these characters to put all points into Health and use Glyphs for Mana (don't care about Stamina) I ended up with more Mana and Health that way overall. Plus, if I ever care about Stamina, then that is just a couple of Glyphs away.

The other thing it gets rid of is worrying about what piece of armor your putting your Glyphs on, as 3 of them (Helm, Chest, Legs) give you more from a glyph than the other 4 do. Now, I just buy or make a complete set of one type.

TehMagnus

Think of the Health stamina magicka points attribution as a balance with HP being the center of it.

Someone said it's a remnant from the old softcaps and it's partly true.

In ESO, you have two kind of builds: Magicka & Stamina (ok 3 kind since you also have hybrid builds but that requires some skill and the viable hybrid VR12 builds can be counted with the fingers of one hand).

This means that you are going to be trying to hit the softcaps of either magicka or stamina depending on how you choose to play.

In both builds (even in Hybrid ones), the common denominator is Health, you allways need health and this is why people used to put all their points into Health, because Attributes respec was really expensive and if you ever wanted to switch builds (I.E.: Stamina for PVP & Magicka for PVE) all you needed to do was have LA armor with magicka runes and Heavy/medium armor with Stamina runes (& some HP runes sometimes). That way you allways have a decent HP and you use armor enchants to hit stam or mana softcaps. 0/49/0 was just te most optimal way to go.

This is still true to some extent if you plan to diversify your activities in the game. If you plan to play only PVP or tank, 0/49/0 is the way to go since HP is EVERYTHING in CYrodill. If you play trials or any PVE in general, you can use 10/39/0 (I was even using 20/29/0 at one point when I had all PVP buffs) since, as someone pointed, 2,4-2,5k Hp is more than enough for a good player.

Personally, since the costs have lowered, I usually respec my attributes twice a week depending on PVP buffs or if I'm playing tank/dps or if I'm going to play a lot of PVP or a lot of trials.

PBpsy

Muizer wrote: »

Why not use the gear/jewelry to raise health and the attributes for magicka or stamina though? It amounts to the same thing?

The only real reason I can think of atm is that it's to avoid getting wiped out in a PVP surprise attack where you have no time to activate shields.

Food and Jewels do not give the 15/10 ratio for H/S and H/M.They give 10/10 so you get a slight but real advantage if you go all Health and stamina/magicka on foods and jewels.Ironically min/maxing on stat points actually helps you get the more well rounded characters.

kitsinni

It doesn't matter where you stack it on glyphs or attributes except with jewelry. Attributes give +15 health or +10 Magicka/Stamina and the Glyphs give the same rations of 150% as much health as Magicka/Stamina. Jewelry you get the same amount of health as you would Magicka/Stamina so jewelry with health is kind of a ripoff.

Another advantage of all health is it allows you to switch between stamina and magicka builds with just a change of gear.

To the guy who said they don't like to stack health as a healer that is my worst nightmare. Once you get to vet dungeons and above if you have below 2000 health you are in one shot territory.

jambam817_ESO

as a Orc Sorcerer Light Armor 7/7 and Destro staff i have 20 Magika, 29 Health, 0 Stamina as my stat allocation, all gear enchants are Magika.
With +300 ish Magika and Health food on at VR8 i am at just under 2300 HP and Magika, with (im guessing) 1200-1400 ish Stamina (orc racials help make up for HP and Stamina).

I just didn't feel right with all Health points. I have been doing just fine. At VR12 I'll be whooping butt!

Merlin13KAGL

PBpsy wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

Why not use the gear/jewelry to raise health and the attributes for magicka or stamina though? It amounts to the same thing?

The only real reason I can think of atm is that it's to avoid getting wiped out in a PVP surprise attack where you have no time to activate shields.

Food and Jewels do not give the 15/10 ratio for H/S and H/M.They give 10/10 so you get a slight but real advantage if you go all Health and stamina/magicka on foods and jewels.Ironically min/maxing on stat points actually helps you get the more well rounded characters.

@PBpsy, even with jewelry, you're only going to get another 200 or so one way or the other. Given the 1.5/1 handoff, you're only talking about a difference of 100 health if you get it via 6 attribute points vs taking it on the jewelry.

It should be evened out, with minimal difference so that you could approach those points regardless how you select your attribute points. There should be benefits towards sinking the points in directly, but they should never be so different as to lead to the trend of sinking all points in to any one stat.

Ironically, this is what they were originally trying to avoid.

PBpsy

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

Why not use the gear/jewelry to raise health and the attributes for magicka or stamina though? It amounts to the same thing?

The only real reason I can think of atm is that it's to avoid getting wiped out in a PVP surprise attack where you have no time to activate shields.

Food and Jewels do not give the 15/10 ratio for H/S and H/M.They give 10/10 so you get a slight but real advantage if you go all Health and stamina/magicka on foods and jewels.Ironically min/maxing on stat points actually helps you get the more well rounded characters.

@PBpsy, even with jewelry, you're only going to get another 200 or so one way or the other. Given the 1.5/1 handoff, you're only talking about a difference of 100 health if you get it via 6 attribute points vs taking it on the jewelry.

It should be evened out, with minimal difference so that you could approach those points regardless how you select your attribute points. There should be benefits towards sinking the points in directly, but they should never be so different as to lead to the trend of sinking all points in to any one stat.

Ironically, this is what they were originally trying to avoid.

Yes the difference is slightl but it is there. For my magicka pvp build it actually works great. All health takes care of survival then I use all magicka on gear and I use magicka /stam food. I get 150-200 more stats that if if I used the purple food and get a decent amount of stamina at little cost. In the end the difference is so small that going one stat only is a matter of convenience you can put all into any of them and forget about it.

OrangeTheCat

eliisra wrote: »

Tigeracer wrote: »

You get more from attribute points actually.

You dont get more attributes by jamming all points into health. Don't think that's been the case since beta. But there's still firm believers, probably based on people reading old guides.

Can just as well put attribute points in magicka and stamina, than use glyphs to get health.

Exactly.

I put my attribute points evenly across the three and then adjust the relative levels with glyphs.

Obscure

Health gives the best bang for your buck in attribute allocation.
Health enchants give the best bang for your buck in armor enchantment.

Head, Chest, and Leg enchants are full value enchants, the rest are reduced.

Optimal health specing uses the Infused trait on Legendary head, chest, and legs and slots them with Legendary Health Enchantments. Then you apply all 49 attribute points to health. Then you apply stamina or magicka enchants to the remainder of your gear with jewelry using the relevant Stamina or Magicka trait.

It is recommended that you use the Impenetrable trait for the remaining armor pieces to substantiality mitigate critical hits.

Muizer

Interesting. Thanks for your comments all.

kitsinni

Unless you plan to stack more Magicka/Stamina than you can get from Glyphs, all things being equal it just seems to make more sense to put the attributes in Health just because you can switch between Magicka, Stamina or split builds without respeccing your attribute points.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

One thing you maybe should keep in mind is that health armor enchantments have bigger numbers than the other two.

I added 710 health to my VR 4 Vampire Witch with enchanted armor and set bonus. She is magic heavy and it works just fine.

kitsinni

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

One thing you maybe should keep in mind is that health armor enchantments have bigger numbers than the other two.

I added 710 health to my VR 4 Vampire Witch with enchanted armor and set bonus. She is magic heavy and it works just fine.

It works out the same. You either get 150% more Health on Glyphs or you get 150% more Health with attributes. Glyphs and attributes scale at the same rate. Set bonuses will apply the same regardless.

The main reason I see to put attributes in health is 49 points in health is the minimum amount of health I would want and using my attributes for it gives me more freedom with using stamina or magicka.

jelliedsoup

Vr10 NB. Pumping points into health is not a priority for me, nor would I recommend it.

I have to 2400 magicka, 2100 stamina and do OK. I have to hit hard and fast,the NB has no sustained attacks during the 75-25% range of a fight. If I don't crit early, I dark cloak out. Stam is high for bow.

If I go toe to toe with dk, templar I will die due to their healing. So health is not a concern for me. I need to use the skills when I need to.

madangrypally

Stat allocation depends on many different factors and there is no one correct path. I play multiple characters and each does something a little different due to their build and passives. Trying to come up with 1 best way is pointless.

This is what I do for my characters:
1: Have target Health, Magicka and Stamina goal. This may mean i aim for set bonuses with these.
2: Equip Gear. There are 11 gear slots for a max of 8 set bonuses possible. Its important to obtain 8 set bonuses with the bonuses I want. Jewelry must have Arcane or Robust depending on build.
3: Eat the Food that character plans on primary using. Some of my characters use Epic food while others use Rare Food.
4: At this point I use Enchants and Stat points to get to my targeted values. I avoid going over soft cap in any stat and this allows me to add small amounts at will.

If i were to run Trials or Vet Dungeons I would have a minimum of 2400 health with food for all my characters. Some will have much much more while others will just reach that value.

Stats are important but do not neglect the other modifiers that effect the character. Focus on the modifiers that matter and not what is not important.

Class Abilities:
Spell Damage and Max Magicka
Some abilities use weapon critical and some use spell critical. Know which.
Some is against a targets spell resist and some are against the targets armor.

Staff Weapon Abilities:
Weapon Damage and Max Magicka.
Spell Critical and against the targets spell resistance.

Stamina Weapons Abilities:
Weapon Damage and Max Stamina
Weapon Critical and against targets armor.

With the above in mind gear for what is important. Spell Damage for example will make a very big improvement up to soft cap for class abilities. Weapon damage will greatly increase Restoration staff healing.

Classes themselves have different modifier goals due to class abilities themselves.

Sorcerer: More Max Magicka means Critical Surge gives more Weapon Damage. Max Magicka also increases Hardened Ward Damage shield value.

Templar: More Health means Blazing Shield has a higher damage shield and does explodes for more. Templars have a serious resource management issue so Magicka Recovery is very important.

Nightblades: etc.

Dragonknight: etc.