This game really needs a Rez Sickness debuff similar to DAOC

Xsorus

It would really help with the constant respawning over and over again in fights.

Zheg

Or, they could change/remove forward camps. At this point, the entire mechanic of cutting off trans lines by sieging and taking resources is almost pointless

Honfold

I would agree with rez sickness. It is very frustrating when your alliance defends successfully but the other side has a seemingly limitless supply of bodies, like the ones waiting in queue for an hour .

However, I hope that they implement PVP arenas before they do anything too radical to Forward Camps. I say this because the game has too much "long duration game-play," and not enough instant action type of scenarios. If there is not a Forward Camp up then your riding to the next keep.

Xsorus

Zheg wrote: »

Or, they could change/remove forward camps. At this point, the entire mechanic of cutting off trans lines by sieging and taking resources is almost pointless

Oh i agree entirely with that..Siege camps need to go, a long with increasing the HP of Walls dramatically.

Columba

agree with either. way too easy to get back to fight.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

I will agree with above.

Remove camps.

Bipolo

Common scenario:

Your group/raid wipes enemy group/raid.

Usually after a tough, fun fight...

You lost a few group members in the process.

1sec later enemy Sorc or NB sets up a camp just around the corner...

Group/raid you just wiped comes steamrolling, reformed and 100% ready to fight again.

/facepalm

Xsorus

Bipolo wrote: »

Common scenario:

Your group/raid wipes enemy group/raid.

Usually after a tough, fun fight...

You lost a few group members in the process.

1sec later enemy Sorc or NB sets up a camp just around the corner...

Group/raid you just wiped comes steamrolling, reformed and 100% ready to fight again.

/facepalm

pretty much

Renuo

This game needs a lot more DAoC and a lot less whatever they are doing

Zed

Bipolo wrote: »

Common scenario:

Your group/raid wipes enemy group/raid.

Usually after a tough, fun fight...

You lost a few group members in the process.

1sec later enemy Sorc or NB sets up a camp just around the corner...

Group/raid you just wiped comes steamrolling, reformed and 100% ready to fight again.

/facepalm

There's nothing preventing you from doing the same, of course.

Renuo

Zed wrote: »

Bipolo wrote: »

Common scenario:

Your group/raid wipes enemy group/raid.

Usually after a tough, fun fight...

You lost a few group members in the process.

1sec later enemy Sorc or NB sets up a camp just around the corner...

Group/raid you just wiped comes steamrolling, reformed and 100% ready to fight again.

/facepalm

There's nothing preventing you from doing the same, of course.

Of course, who FCs wins! Who didn't sign up for that awesome PvP system???

fastolfv_ESO

its so easy for a nb or really anyone to take out that forward camp at the right time to stop the respawns. More can be dropped yes but an entire zerg that wiped will not just sit there and watch the map forever until another camp is spawned

WaystedMinedub17_ESO

A) No more FCs inside Keep walls
No more FCs within X distance of the mining, farm, and timber resources. i.e. no free NPC guards.

So you actually have to protect them and can't plop them right next to the fighting.

Zed

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

an entire zerg that wiped will not just sit there and watch the map forever until another camp is spawned

The entire zerg? No. But a large number will. Especially when the zerg is going for a keep and is using a friendly resource to launch their attacks.

When it comes to fights out in the field, the searching for the enemy FC is part of the fun though.

R0M2K

Bipolo wrote: »

Common scenario:

Your group/raid wipes enemy group/raid.

Usually after a tough, fun fight...

You lost a few group members in the process.

1sec later enemy Sorc or NB sets up a camp just around the corner...

Group/raid you just wiped comes steamrolling, reformed and 100% ready to fight again.

/facepalm

Or they are wiped again and they /facepalm

Xsorus

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

its so easy for a nb or really anyone to take out that forward camp at the right time to stop the respawns. More can be dropped yes but an entire zerg that wiped will not just sit there and watch the map forever until another camp is spawned

huh...i've seen countless zergs do this...Hell I do this..i wait for a FC to pop back up before respawning.

Agrippa_Invisus

Both "Blood Gating" (suiciding to a new location) and having to face the same team *twice* -- the second time guaranteed to have full resources -- lessens the game immensely.

Anyone coming out of a tent should have rez sickness. You can keep it so that keeps/spawn points are still rezzing without, a bonus for not needing a tent, but the tent spawns should be easily killable (commensurate to the very low AP they give).

Using a FC instead of a keep/spawn should be last resort in case you don't have the unlimited respawn source available.

Xsorus

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Both "Blood Gating" (suiciding to a new location) and having to face the same team *twice* -- the second time guaranteed to have full resources -- lessens the game immensely.

Anyone coming out of a tent should have rez sickness. You can keep it so that keeps/spawn points are still rezzing without, a bonus for not needing a tent, but the tent spawns should be easily killable (commensurate to the very low AP they give).

Using a FC instead of a keep/spawn should be last resort in case you don't have the unlimited respawn source available.

Agree Completely.

I don't know how many times my small man has wiped a group or something, and there back 30 seconds later doing the exact same thing they were doing before with no penalty.

c0rp

1) No more camps allowed inside keeps.
2) You can only spawn at a camp if you are within the radius of the camp.
3) Camps need to cost MORE AP.
4) Camps cannot be placed on resource nodes.
5) Remove AoE caps.

Its that easy. Cyrodiil is now a fun place to be.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

Agrippa_Invisus

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Both "Blood Gating" (suiciding to a new location) and having to face the same team *twice* -- the second time guaranteed to have full resources -- lessens the game immensely.

Anyone coming out of a tent should have rez sickness. You can keep it so that keeps/spawn points are still rezzing without, a bonus for not needing a tent, but the tent spawns should be easily killable (commensurate to the very low AP they give).

Using a FC instead of a keep/spawn should be last resort in case you don't have the unlimited respawn source available.

Agree Completely.

I don't know how many times my small man has wiped a group or something, and there back 30 seconds later doing the exact same thing they were doing before with no penalty.

Bonus, not lacking a penalty. They spend 7,200 AP and refresh stamina, magicka, and HP pools.

And if it was a close fight, the team that "won" the first battle is low on commensurate resources and has few ultis.

Xsorus

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Both "Blood Gating" (suiciding to a new location) and having to face the same team *twice* -- the second time guaranteed to have full resources -- lessens the game immensely.

Anyone coming out of a tent should have rez sickness. You can keep it so that keeps/spawn points are still rezzing without, a bonus for not needing a tent, but the tent spawns should be easily killable (commensurate to the very low AP they give).

Using a FC instead of a keep/spawn should be last resort in case you don't have the unlimited respawn source available.

Agree Completely.

I don't know how many times my small man has wiped a group or something, and there back 30 seconds later doing the exact same thing they were doing before with no penalty.

Bonus, not lacking a penalty. They spend 7,200 AP and refresh stamina, magicka, and HP pools.

And if it was a close fight, the team that "won" the first battle is low on commensurate resources and has few ultis.

yeap..

Hell to give an idea how silly FC's are..I've been running my Caster type setup on my DK occasionally, during one fight at a keep were we controlled one of AD's resources and they had their zerg there trying to get it back...I would run in Spam Frag Shield + Standard, kill a ton of people...Die... rez directly at the camp with zero penalty and run right back into the clump of people again and do the same thing..Over and Over again.

Agrippa_Invisus

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Both "Blood Gating" (suiciding to a new location) and having to face the same team *twice* -- the second time guaranteed to have full resources -- lessens the game immensely.

Anyone coming out of a tent should have rez sickness. You can keep it so that keeps/spawn points are still rezzing without, a bonus for not needing a tent, but the tent spawns should be easily killable (commensurate to the very low AP they give).

Using a FC instead of a keep/spawn should be last resort in case you don't have the unlimited respawn source available.

Agree Completely.

I don't know how many times my small man has wiped a group or something, and there back 30 seconds later doing the exact same thing they were doing before with no penalty.

Bonus, not lacking a penalty. They spend 7,200 AP and refresh stamina, magicka, and HP pools.

And if it was a close fight, the team that "won" the first battle is low on commensurate resources and has few ultis.

yeap..

Hell to give an idea how silly FC's are..I've been running my Caster type setup on my DK occasionally, during one fight at a keep were we controlled one of AD's resources and they had their zerg there trying to get it back...I would run in Spam Frag Shield + Standard, kill a ton of people...Die... rez directly at the camp with zero penalty and run right back into the clump of people again and do the same thing..Over and Over again.

To think -- I remember when bugged camps were one of the biggest, most annoying issues in PVP. We never knew how good we had it until we got the camps working.

Be careful what you wish for......

Xsorus

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Both "Blood Gating" (suiciding to a new location) and having to face the same team *twice* -- the second time guaranteed to have full resources -- lessens the game immensely.

Anyone coming out of a tent should have rez sickness. You can keep it so that keeps/spawn points are still rezzing without, a bonus for not needing a tent, but the tent spawns should be easily killable (commensurate to the very low AP they give).

Using a FC instead of a keep/spawn should be last resort in case you don't have the unlimited respawn source available.

Agree Completely.

I don't know how many times my small man has wiped a group or something, and there back 30 seconds later doing the exact same thing they were doing before with no penalty.

Bonus, not lacking a penalty. They spend 7,200 AP and refresh stamina, magicka, and HP pools.

And if it was a close fight, the team that "won" the first battle is low on commensurate resources and has few ultis.

yeap..

Hell to give an idea how silly FC's are..I've been running my Caster type setup on my DK occasionally, during one fight at a keep were we controlled one of AD's resources and they had their zerg there trying to get it back...I would run in Spam Frag Shield + Standard, kill a ton of people...Die... rez directly at the camp with zero penalty and run right back into the clump of people again and do the same thing..Over and Over again.

To think -- I remember when bugged camps were one of the biggest, most annoying issues in PVP. We never knew how good we had it until we got the camps working.

Be careful what you wish for......

Well there is another problem related to not having those Camps...Keep Walls being basically just wet paper tissue in this game.

If you fix one, you have to fix the other.

Agrippa_Invisus

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Both "Blood Gating" (suiciding to a new location) and having to face the same team *twice* -- the second time guaranteed to have full resources -- lessens the game immensely.

Anyone coming out of a tent should have rez sickness. You can keep it so that keeps/spawn points are still rezzing without, a bonus for not needing a tent, but the tent spawns should be easily killable (commensurate to the very low AP they give).

Using a FC instead of a keep/spawn should be last resort in case you don't have the unlimited respawn source available.

Agree Completely.

I don't know how many times my small man has wiped a group or something, and there back 30 seconds later doing the exact same thing they were doing before with no penalty.

Bonus, not lacking a penalty. They spend 7,200 AP and refresh stamina, magicka, and HP pools.

And if it was a close fight, the team that "won" the first battle is low on commensurate resources and has few ultis.

yeap..

Hell to give an idea how silly FC's are..I've been running my Caster type setup on my DK occasionally, during one fight at a keep were we controlled one of AD's resources and they had their zerg there trying to get it back...I would run in Spam Frag Shield + Standard, kill a ton of people...Die... rez directly at the camp with zero penalty and run right back into the clump of people again and do the same thing..Over and Over again.

To think -- I remember when bugged camps were one of the biggest, most annoying issues in PVP. We never knew how good we had it until we got the camps working.

Be careful what you wish for......

Well there is another problem related to not having those Camps...Keep Walls being basically just wet paper tissue in this game.

If you fix one, you have to fix the other.

Also agreed.

Keep walls should receive a massive HP buff.

And guards should be tweaked downwards (especially Archer Guards).

Even with max siege and diligent siegers, it should not take 60s to drop a keep wall. My guild has taken a keep from starburst to EP controlled in under 3 minutes on a regular basis. If there's no tent inside (and trust me, if there is I will have destroyed it), how are you supposed to respond to that?

Sometimes the owners save it.

But then we just Blood Gate to another tent and try again. You fail once and you lose a keep.

Xsorus

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Both "Blood Gating" (suiciding to a new location) and having to face the same team *twice* -- the second time guaranteed to have full resources -- lessens the game immensely.

Anyone coming out of a tent should have rez sickness. You can keep it so that keeps/spawn points are still rezzing without, a bonus for not needing a tent, but the tent spawns should be easily killable (commensurate to the very low AP they give).

Using a FC instead of a keep/spawn should be last resort in case you don't have the unlimited respawn source available.

Agree Completely.

I don't know how many times my small man has wiped a group or something, and there back 30 seconds later doing the exact same thing they were doing before with no penalty.

Bonus, not lacking a penalty. They spend 7,200 AP and refresh stamina, magicka, and HP pools.

And if it was a close fight, the team that "won" the first battle is low on commensurate resources and has few ultis.

yeap..

Hell to give an idea how silly FC's are..I've been running my Caster type setup on my DK occasionally, during one fight at a keep were we controlled one of AD's resources and they had their zerg there trying to get it back...I would run in Spam Frag Shield + Standard, kill a ton of people...Die... rez directly at the camp with zero penalty and run right back into the clump of people again and do the same thing..Over and Over again.

To think -- I remember when bugged camps were one of the biggest, most annoying issues in PVP. We never knew how good we had it until we got the camps working.

Be careful what you wish for......

Well there is another problem related to not having those Camps...Keep Walls being basically just wet paper tissue in this game.

If you fix one, you have to fix the other.

Also agreed.

Keep walls should receive a massive HP buff.

And guards should be tweaked downwards (especially Archer Guards).

Even with max siege and diligent siegers, it should not take 60s to drop a keep wall. My guild has taken a keep from starburst to EP controlled in under 3 minutes on a regular basis. If there's no tent inside (and trust me, if there is I will have destroyed it), how are you supposed to respond to that?

Sometimes the owners save it.

But then we just Blood Gate to another tent and try again. You fail once and you lose a keep.

yeap.... Its way to fast to knock down a keep wall....Doors should be the main method to getting into keeps, and if that fails, it should be slow to knock down keep walls.

FluffiestOne

Make camps glitched again... much better pvp back then.

Keron

If camps get removed from being placed inside keeps (no more defenders camps), then we need a limitation for attackers camps, otherwise keep defense is impossible - it's only a matter of time for attackers.

So, ideas (considering no FC for defenders):

• make FCs cumulative. You drop one, it sits there until the whole region (keep grounds and resource grounds) hasn't had a fight involving your faction for 5 minutes. it still has only 25 "souls" available, but you can "fill it up" for the ap cost of a new one for a maximum of 5 times (or any other arbitrarily picked number that limits resources).
• defenders can still burn down attackers tent. if they manage to do that, attackers have to pull back out of keep & resource grounds for above mentioned 5 minutes until they can place a new one. (reward defenders for moving out and killing enemy tent)
• Keep walls get a buff in HP or siege damage (to structures) gets cut down to 20% of existing (or any other arbitrarily picked number that makes walls significant).
• There are layered indicators and consequences:
  • The moment a siege starts on a keep, owning faction gets indication on their maps, like starburst. Spawn & port (latter if minimum 1 resource is still held) are still possible: Defenders can and have to flock to keep immediately.
  • Outer wall is down to 50%, starburst turns red. Port stops working, no way around. You can still resurrect at keep, but only if you died within its proximity (imagine range as with the white circle on camps).
  • Outer wall is breached, indicator changes to "you cannot pass!" (whatever that looks like). You can only resurrect at attacked keep if died within that keep's outer walls. Get resurrection sickness as a defender, that limits stamina and magicka regen to 0 for 1 minute (or any other arbitrarily picked time that makes defenders count for siege weaps but easy prey for attackers for a significant but not overwhelming time).
  • Inner wall is down to 50%: last stand mode. Remove faction coloring from keep and revert to grey: this keep is now uncontrolled. You can't resurrect at keep any more. Every defender death is one defender removed from defense unless they ride in manually from nearest keep.

You have now limited resources as attacker, because if you stop the assault to place a new tent, defenders probably have enough time to completely repair and get in more reinforcements.

Defenders have unlimited resources only as long as they manage to keep their keep (yay, pun) in good shape. If they don't, they quickly lose access to their keep and attackers will have an easy time.

As an aside: Make NPCs within keeps so that taking the resources really makes sense for attackers, but have them in numbers that still prevent a group of 4 to take the keep against them. Have the numbers of NPC double for each resource still held. the number we have now (or slightly reduced) is the number of NPCs if you own keep. It doubles if you have one resource, quadruples if you have two resources and increases eightfold if you have all three resources. Voila, attacker HAVE to take at least some of the resources first or they will be overwhelmed by robots.

You can still capture a keep with a small group, but only if you get the resources first. The smaller the attacking force, the bigger the risk to be overwhelmed by swarming defenders - especially since they get advance warning because of resources being taken.

But in the end it's maybe best to keep NPCs as is - they are not that significant anyways.

Oh yeah, another one: As long as the outer wall is not breached, inner wall is invulnerable. Stop that shait with siegeing outer and inner at the same time to make spawn and port impossible at the same time.

bitaken

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Both "Blood Gating" (suiciding to a new location) and having to face the same team *twice* -- the second time guaranteed to have full resources -- lessens the game immensely.

Anyone coming out of a tent should have rez sickness. You can keep it so that keeps/spawn points are still rezzing without, a bonus for not needing a tent, but the tent spawns should be easily killable (commensurate to the very low AP they give).

Using a FC instead of a keep/spawn should be last resort in case you don't have the unlimited respawn source available.

This. We constantly have this problem with a few of the well organized groups. We maneuver to get into a perfect position - light them up - and capture a resource from them - or even a defense tower (like Bleakers) and they seemingly always have someone waiting to drop a tent for them - even though we got their tent before engaging, and then as we are recovering from the fight - they are fresh and ready to go right in our faces again.

Even a 30 second health/mag/stam debuff of 33% would be enough to stop the madness.

Maulkin

Something needs to happen about FCs though I'm not sure res sickness is the best option. I'd implement other fixes first and if there are still issues I would then take a look at something like that.

All the ideas mentioned above have been discussed ad-nauseam and the general consensus seems to be:
a) Increase keep walls by at least double HP
b) Increase the HP of siege weapons so sieging doesn't become an AP sink when fighting defended keeps with the new wall hp.
c) Provide with a map warning when keeps drop under 75%, before transport is cut. That will reward player alertness and prevent ninja sieges.
d) Only allow rezing at FC when players die within vicinity.

When/If the above get implemented I would assess their impact frist before considering res sickness.

In the example mentioned by xsorus any group worth their salt will quickly spot the location of incoming players and push the camp. Even before you face off with the other group you can see by the direction of the pug-stream and by looking at the map where the FC is going to be 90% of the time.

madangrypally

1: Respawning at a Forward Camp gives the character 25% Max Health and 0% Max Stamina and Magicka. Not the full 100% restore it does now.

2: Respawning at a Forward Camp places a 10 minute cooldown on the character before the character can use another Forward Camp.

3: Make player rezzes more popular.
3a: Add in a new daily for rezzing players that gives enough gold/ap to make it worth it.
3b: Add an achievement for player rezzing with a either a title, dye, or pet.
3c: Imperial City is going to make it that alliances that do not own the Imperial city can not respawn (assuming if they own/defend a district they can respawn there). This means rezzing will become more important in the Imperial City.

4: Allow only those who die in the radius able to use the Forward Camp.

5: Adjust Keep Walls Health and make the notification at 75% instead of 50%. That gives 25% window to still port in.

6: Give roads a bonus to movement speed while traveling them. This will make it easier to travel between keeps.

Honfold

madangrypally wrote: »

1: Respawning at a Forward Camp gives the character 25% Max Health and 0% Max Stamina and Magicka. Not the full 100% restore it does now.

2: Respawning at a Forward Camp places a 10 minute cooldown on the character before the character can use another Forward Camp.

3: Make player rezzes more popular.
3a: Add in a new daily for rezzing players that gives enough gold/ap to make it worth it.
3b: Add an achievement for player rezzing with a either a title, dye, or pet.
3c: Imperial City is going to make it that alliances that do not own the Imperial city can not respawn (assuming if they own/defend a district they can respawn there). This means rezzing will become more important in the Imperial City.

4: Allow only those who die in the radius able to use the Forward Camp.

5: Adjust Keep Walls Health and make the notification at 75% instead of 50%. That gives 25% window to still port in.

6: Give roads a bonus to movement speed while traveling them. This will make it easier to travel between keeps.

I think starting out with 25% health is too low and it would take about 3 impulse monkeys to wipe out a raid of reinforcements.

Other than that I agree with everything else. I like the idea of rezzing incentives. I also think that road speed bonuses need to be in the game.