Lack of Reward in ESO

DeadByNow

I have been playing since beta. There is no reward in this game. I have done all the content and all I have to show for it is a bunch of colors and 300 skill points. The game lacks PVE reward. I the same gear that a brand new vr 12 has. ESO has to add Everquest type loot rewards. This game is lacking.

JHawkk

I agree. I love running vet dungeons but get so upset with the rewards I get. I hope that with the added dungeons dailies soon that it brings in nice rewards for rerunning vet dungeons

Sharee

It's a tricky subject. I would love to complete a difficult dungeon and get a dagger that is 50% more powerful than what i could otherwise get.

But then i would be 50% more powerful in cyrodiil than a similar NB. Until he also kills the boss and gets his dagger. Killing the boss would no longer be a fun run with a great reward - it would become a mandatory grind everyone has to do just to be on equal ground in cyrodiil, not to be more powerful, just to no longer be gimped.

Pure PvP players with no interest in PvE would then rightfully complain that they are forced to do something they don't want to, just to be able to PvP.

Martinus72

I agree that in this state game is lacking above all the reason to repeat dungeons and in rewards generally but these are early days and devs clearly stated they're working on improving it so keep the faith

Attorneyatlawl

DeadByNow wrote: »

I have been playing since beta. There is no reward in this game. I have done all the content and all I have to show for it is a bunch of colors and 300 skill points. The game lacks PVE reward. I the same gear that a brand new vr 12 has. ESO has to add Everquest type loot rewards. This game is lacking.

It lacks in pvp reward too... you get moderately OK gear for a couple of sets and the rest of the good stuff is all crafted. I would like to see a realm rank system ala Dark Age of Camelot implemented to go with the current alliance ranks... and pve trials to have better rewards than they do now. When you can craft the bulk of the best gear in the game it becomes so easy and so common it loses meaning.

Draxuul

I`m sorry but i have the be the bad guy here once again as i have been in other similar threads.

I`ve been waiting for about 8 years for a game such as this one and now that it`s here i see people trying to change it to make it similar to other MMO`s which i have quit playing for being the way they are.

Zenimax created a game that is very close to the way i had wished MMO`s to be for 8 years .

This game doesn`t turn it`s players into Gods. OMG, FINALLY.

WoW turns it`s players into gods, LOTRO turns it`s players into gods, now i haven`t played Everquest 2 but i played the first one and it definatly turned it`s players into gods although i could definatly appreciate the difficulty of the original Everquest and the fact that casting spells actually required components and there were no instant cast spells.

SO that being said, there are plenty of games out there that will give you exactly what you want and there is only one game right now that gives me what i want .

If you`re unhappy here then why not simply go somewhere that will make you happy and leave this game the way it is for those of us who actually enjoy it the way it is .

Back when i played WoW, i remember the first time i saw someone crit for 5000 damage , i was speechless cuz i only had about 1000 HP. Now back then the lvl cap was 60 and the maximum HP one could have at the time was somewhere between 5000-7000 at lvl 60 depending on class and gear .

I recently saw a video of someone soloing a boss with a warlock and she was dealing a constant 500 000 damage to that boss and even that damage was barely scratching the boss`s HP bar . That in my book is completly ridiculous. It`s a real friggin joke.

So yeah , for the past 8 years i`ve been waiting for an MMO that was more down to earth. Where character`s wouldn`t grow in power exponentially and where no one would be turned into a god at lvl cap. Where player skill and the choices you make would actually matter and where if you are bad as a player then you`ll be bad in the game .

In wow and a lot of other MMO`s , it doesn`t matter if you`re good or bad because your success only depends on the gear that you wear . So a person who`s really good can get defeated by a person who`s really bad just because he had better gear. That infuriates me.

At least in this game, your skills as a player and your ability to react quickly to different situations and your ability to dodge damage and your ability to manage your stamina and magicka will have a huge effect on your success. This is not something i can say for most MMO`s out there .

The comment that the OP made , wanting more reward , that is just greed and nothing else. That actually means that you don`t play the game for the experience it provides, you just play the game to earn rewards. So what then? what if it does give you rewards everytime you run a dungeon? Once you`re done with that you`ll still be here once again wanting more content that will get you more rewards.

There is just no making people like you happy because once you`re done collecting the end game rewards you get bored and come back begging for more.

People like me play games like these for the experience of living in a fantasy world and being able to experience it with other similar minded people. I don`t play this to become a god or to become rich or to be given rewards everytime i kill a mudcrab.

The experience of being able to live in a beautiful fantastical world is rewarding enough for me .

Draxuul

Attorneyatlawl

Quoted post by @Draxuul

Draxuul wrote: »

I`m sorry but i have the be the bad guy here once again as i have been in other similar threads.

I`ve been waiting for about 8 years for a game such as this one and now that it`s here i see people trying to change it to make it similar to other MMO`s which i have quit playing for being the way they are.

Zenimax created a game that is very close to the way i had wished MMO`s to be for 8 years .

This game doesn`t turn it`s players into Gods. OMG, FINALLY.

WoW turns it`s players into gods, LOTRO turns it`s players into gods, now i haven`t played Everquest 2 but i played the first one and it definatly turned it`s players into gods although i could definatly appreciate the difficulty of the original Everquest and the fact that casting spells actually required components and there were no instant cast spells.

SO that being said, there are plenty of games out there that will give you exactly what you want and there is only one game right now that gives me what i want .

If you`re unhappy here then why not simply go somewhere that will make you happy and leave this game the way it is for those of us who actually enjoy it the way it is .

Back when i played WoW, i remember the first time i saw someone crit for 5000 damage , i was speechless cuz i only had about 1000 HP. Now back then the lvl cap was 60 and the maximum HP one could have at the time was somewhere between 5000-7000 at lvl 60 depending on class and gear .

I recently saw a video of someone soloing a boss with a warlock and she was dealing a constant 500 000 damage to that boss and even that damage was barely scratching the boss`s HP bar . That in my book is completly ridiculous. It`s a real friggin joke.

So yeah , for the past 8 years i`ve been waiting for an MMO that was more down to earth. Where character`s wouldn`t grow in power exponentially and where no one would be turned into a god at lvl cap. Where player skill and the choices you make would actually matter and where if you are bad as a player then you`ll be bad in the game .

In wow and a lot of other MMO`s , it doesn`t matter if you`re good or bad because your success only depends on the gear that you wear . So a person who`s really good can get defeated by a person who`s really bad just because he had better gear. That infuriates me.

At least in this game, your skills as a player and your ability to react quickly to different situations and your ability to dodge damage and your ability to manage your stamina and magicka will have a huge effect on your success. This is not something i can say for most MMO`s out there .

The comment that the OP made , wanting more reward , that is just greed and nothing else. That actually means that you don`t play the game for the experience it provides, you just play the game to earn rewards. So what then? what if it does give you rewards everytime you run a dungeon? Once you`re done with that you`ll still be here once again wanting more content that will get you more rewards.

There is just no making people like you happy because once you`re done collecting the end game rewards you get bored and come back begging for more.

People like me play games like these for the experience of living in a fantasy world and being able to experience it with other similar minded people. I don`t play this to become a god or to become rich or to be given rewards everytime i kill a mudcrab.

The experience of being able to live in a beautiful fantastical world is rewarding enough for me .

Draxuul

@Draxuul, while I agree that largely horizontal progression is good, the problem is there's basically NO progression right now. As a long-time DAOC player I am appalled at games like WOW where your character became exponentially stronger every few months (or however long it took for content there), not just by a little but by an incredible amount each time. However, there has to be some amount of gain in terms of alternate options unlocked and slight power increases for the sake of fun, too. DAOC barely increased character power post-TOA (probably by 10-15% from then until now, a decade later) but they added lots of options and cool new alternatives to keep things fresh. In ESO currently there's none of that.

I do want to highlight that your point about "what about once you have everything" is one I often mention to people myself, and agree with very much (that you should enjoy the game, not just assume you have to have everything off the bat and then be disappointed once you're there).

DAOC provided an extremely long PVP progression system called Realm Ranks. Similar to much larger versions of Assault/Support in PVP right now and using their own exclusive points earned from each rank, they provided a lot of alternative options as well as slight power increases over time. The important things were right at the bottom, and the higher you went the smaller the gains got and the longer they took, requiring so many points that time alone would never let most players reach them and you had to have skill just to earn that many too.

I want that kind of setup in ESO. It would provide (and provided) a very solid long-term progression without being unfair and while completely avoiding the issues of exponentially increasing power to where a 5000hp mob that used to take 20 seconds to kill would die in packs in under a second to one cast of your AOE like some games have gone down the road of (*cough*WOW*cough*).

So, don't apologize, and certainly don't be sorry. You don't need to. You raise some very valid points and you believe them too, nothing wrong with that whether or not I happened to agree or not (despite that I do in this case). Keep submitting your feedback and hopefully we will end up with a balanced approach in the end .

Draxuul

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

@Draxuul, while I agree that largely horizontal progression is good, the problem is there's basically NO progression right now. As a long-time DAOC player I am appalled at games like WOW where your character became exponentially stronger every few months (or however long it took for content there), not just by a little but by an incredible amount each time. However, there has to be some amount of gain in terms of alternate options unlocked and slight power increases for the sake of fun, too. DAOC barely increased character power post-TOA (probably by 10-15% from then until now, a decade later) but they added lots of options and cool new alternatives to keep things fresh. In ESO currently there's none of that.

I do want to highlight that your point about "what about once you have everything" is one I often mention to people myself, and agree with very much (that you should enjoy the game, not just assume you have to have everything off the bat and then be disappointed once you're there).

DAOC provided an extremely long PVP progression system called Realm Ranks. Similar to much larger versions of Assault/Support in PVP right now and using their own exclusive points earned from each rank, they provided a lot of alternative options as well as slight power increases over time. The important things were right at the bottom, and the higher you went the smaller the gains got and the longer they took, requiring so many points that time alone would never let most players reach them and you had to have skill just to earn that many too.

I want that kind of setup in ESO. It would provide (and provided) a very solid long-term progression without being unfair and while completely avoiding the issues of exponentially increasing power to where a 5000hp mob that used to take 20 seconds to kill would die in packs in under a second to one cast of your AOE like some games have gone down the road of (*cough*WOW*cough*).

So, don't apologize, and certainly don't be sorry. You don't need to. You raise some very valid points and you believe them too, nothing wrong with that whether or not I happened to agree or not (despite that I do in this case). Keep submitting your feedback and hopefully we will end up with a balanced approach in the end .

DAOC is one of the MMO`s i`ve never played so i could not make accurate comparisons but that realm rank thing reminds me of how PvP worked in LOTRO .

If you played a monster character , you`d automatically start at lvl cap because they were only playable in the PvP zone but you could still progress in ranks .

I think that the veteran rank system in this game might have been inspired by the pvp ranking system coming from both LOTRO and DAOC and possibly other games that might have used a similar ranking system. The only difference i see here is the fact that you can progress through veteran ranks by doing both pvp or pve.

Now my highest character right now is Vr2 and eversince i hit Vr1, i`ve gained several skill points going from vr1 to vr2 , about 10, give or take 1 or 2 . I`ve slo crafted myself a Vr2 set of gear which is better than the one i made at 50.

Enchants are also better as you progress plus you gain costumes as you progress through ranks . Now the one i got at Vr2 was definatly not the kind of look i`m looking for , for my character but still. It`s a reward none the less.

Now from what you said, the way i understand it , in DAOC pvp and pve are not related in any way . One side doesn`t affect the other , kind of like in wow , the rewards you get from one side is exclusive to that side.

But here in ESO, they`re trying to allow players to switch from PVE to PVP as they please without giving that player any advantages or disadvantages from doing so.
Or should i say, if one player was to complete all end game content from PvE and earn all PvE end game rewards, he can still use that same gear in PvP but he wouldn`t have any advantage over people who never did the end game pve stuff.
And then the same works the other way around. PvP rewards can be used in PvE but will not represent a major advantage nor disadvantage to that player.

So in my opinion, that could be the very reason why Zenimax are being careful with the rewards that they offer because they don`t want those rewards to be limited to only one aspect of the game. Personaly, i wouldn`t want to be in Zenimax`s shoes right now because finding ways to reward players on each side that is useable on each side without creating an imballance is most certainly a hell of a puzzle .

Yet they have to find ways to make it happen because it`s obvious that a lot of people are very unhappy with the rewards they are getting .

My only hope is that they find ways to make people happy without turning them into gods. I don`t care what they do as long as they do it without creating a world where there are more gods walking around than there are ants and mudcrabs.

Draxuul

Anastasia

Sharee wrote: »

It's a tricky subject. I would love to complete a difficult dungeon and get a dagger that is 50% more powerful than what i could otherwise get.

But then i would be 50% more powerful in cyrodiil than a similar NB. Until he also kills the boss and gets his dagger. Killing the boss would no longer be a fun run with a great reward - it would become a mandatory grind everyone has to do just to be on equal ground in cyrodiil, not to be more powerful, just to no longer be gimped.

Pure PvP players with no interest in PvE would then rightfully complain that they are forced to do something they don't want to, just to be able to PvP.

---

Excellent points Sharee. But there HAS to be something to KEEP PvE MMO-r's HERE. So far, that ain't in place. Period.

Anastasia

Anastasia wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

It's a tricky subject. I would love to complete a difficult dungeon and get a dagger that is 50% more powerful than what i could otherwise get.

But then i would be 50% more powerful in cyrodiil than a similar NB. Until he also kills the boss and gets his dagger.

Pure PvP players with no interest in PvE would then rightfully complain that they are forced to do something they don't want to, just to be able to PvP.

---

Excellent points Sharee. But there HAS to be something to KEEP PvE MMO-r's HERE. So far, that ain't in place. Period.

Additionally this: "Killing the boss would no longer be a fun run with a great reward - it would become a mandatory grind (* ie the former Anomalies grinding, and other stuff now in Craglorn) everyone has to do just to be on equal ground in cyrodiil, not to be more powerful, just to no longer be gimped."

That is exactly what is IN PLACE and has been as related to PvPr's who don't/ won't compete UNTIL they are V-12, thus muddying up whatever PvE content there is at endgame because they need to earn their bones in order to make V12. PvP e x p is STILL not optimum, or players would do it there.

Attorneyatlawl

@Draxuul, everything in DAOC worked in both pve and pvp. It had no artificial separation like WOW does. The best players did both pve and pvp because they could use realm abilities from pvp in their raids etc which then gave them some money and gear to do better in pvp... etc. etc.

Draxuul

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

@Draxuul, everything in DAOC worked in both pve and pvp. It had no artificial separation like WOW does. The best players did both pve and pvp because they could use realm abilities from pvp in their raids etc which then gave them some money and gear to do better in pvp... etc. etc.

Ok my bad then, but as i said i didn`t play DAOC. Still the thing is , i think Zenimax are trying to build this game so that doing pvp doesn`t make you better at pve and doing pve doesn`t make you better at pvp.

Plus they`re also trying to build this game so that crafted gear is just as good as looted gear and or pvp earned gear. Crafting does require quite a bit of work in this game such as researching traits which takes quite a bit of time , plus you have to find the gear that has the traits you want to research and when you only have one trait left to research on a certain piece of gear it can take a while before you find one .
Plus when you finally find it then you need to wait like 2 weeks or more for that research to finish.

On top of that you need to gather your mats to craft it and THEN to improve your gear`s quality to purple or legendary, it`s another very long process cuz those mats are pretty rare and not a lot of people are willing to sell those and if they do they ask a lot of cash for them , as it should be because of the rarety. I`m a crafter myself and like i said it`s quite a bit of work.

There were a lot of hours of work into the armor set i`m wearing now on both my characters so it wouldn`t be fair if dungeon runners or pvpers could get better stuff .

On top of that , if you want to be a crafter then you have to spend around 15- 20-ish skill points into your craft which are points you can`t use anywhere else so thats another sacrifice crafters have to make

But then again it wouldn`t be fair if crafters could make better gear than dungeon runners and pvpers .

Now being a crafter myself, i`m never gonna care about dropped gear or earned gear. I`m never gonna wear anything that doesn`t have my own name on it lol. But i can understand that dungeon runners and pvpers want rewards.

But like i said in previous comment, it`s a hell of a puzzle for Zenimax trying to keep everything ballanced and keep everyone happy. If they give something to one side they have to give something equivalent to the other without making it the exact same .

Draxuul

KenjiJU

Gear doesn't feel particularly rewarding in this game. There's so little variation on stats - armor, enchant, trait.. (trait which can also be relegated to doing the same as the other 2/3 things an item can give). Seeing a change of +2 points isn't exciting. Don't get me wrong, I hate pointlessly inflated numbers like in D3; I don't need 10 million defense, that actually makes it feel less valuable if anything, but ESO is on the other extreme of having nothing interesting to look at on an item, outside of maybe a few set bonuses. Really hard for me to push myself to do dungeons as I can't imagine getting excited about loot there.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

Just regeared my Vampire Witch. I have a full slate of crafters and for VR4 she got all new stuff. The VR5 content she has been dealing with is just starting to get slightly tough and it's time.

After building a set of armor incorporating 2 sets and enchanting the whole lot for health I have somewhat better numbers than before and I think this will do for a level or two.

It's all quite reasonable, or seems so to me. Dungeons is what she lives for.

DeadByNow

Now people are leaving the game in the masses. It surely isnt just my guild that is dying.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

DeadByNow wrote: »

Now people are leaving the game in the masses. It surely isnt just my guild that is dying.

Another one.

Martinus72

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

DeadByNow wrote: »

Now people are leaving the game in the masses. It surely isnt just my guild that is dying.

Another one.

Yep another doom and gloom spreader indeed. Always make me chuckle seeing posts like those.

DeadByNow

Really? you think I am doom and gloom? It is more of people are leaving fast. I don't want this. I like the game.

Tamanous

It was stated over a month ago that the devs are adding more "Wow-like" loot drops for those people wanting that sort of thing instead of supporting the craft economy.

Some people like their instant gratification blinky rewards I guess.

Martinus72

DeadByNow wrote: »

Really? you think I am doom and gloom? It is more of people are leaving fast. I don't want this. I like the game.

There's nowhere else as fickle community as in MMO's - people are leaving, new ones coming, some people returning - rinse and repeat throughout whole game's lifespan so relax, nothing to fear here

Ninnghizhidda

ESO doesn't have a real "gear grind" system, so perhaps that would seem to be some "dead end" and make things "boring". On the other hand it does have a pretty good crafting system, and it can get even better.

I am not sure we would really need some hard "gear grind" to feel "rewarded" or gain the illusion of a "purpose" in game (which is more or less the endless chase for the next, slightly better, more "uber" item). Better items and gear will appear but hopefully they will not be the sole purpose of playing this game.

I really do not believe ESO's problem has to do with "boredom" or lack of purpose or rewards. It can compensate in many other ways.

And as for "turning players into gods", there is no problem there either. We already have it, since Betas. The only thing you need to do is to adopt a fashionable "bathrobe & broomstick" build and there you go, you already play in semi-god mode compared to anyone else.

Now, THIS is ESO's problem, and not the lack of rewards, items, gear, content, quests and very many other possibilities to keep you occupied.