PVP has way to much CC

Skwor

The amount of CC in the game is insane, considering the mechanic doesn't even work right and people are constantly being perma CC'd or the supposed immunity just rarely if ever works perhaps it is time to consider just reducing the amount of CC in The game. Being stunned all the time is not a fun way to fight.

Please consider reducing the amount of CC in the game or add some sort of "reducing returns" on it over time. Currently it is very frustrating and just not a fun mechanic.

k1llorbek1lled

I usually don't agree with most of the topics in this section of the forums BUT, I AGREE! and hate the amount of CC in this game.

It's like every class has 3-4 CC's and everyone just spams them. I can't lie my group does it to and I use immovable but DAMN it barely works and I feel like I'm fighting CC instead of actual players...

eliisra

A lot of it is due to cc immunity/breaks not working properly. Even Immovable has been buggy since 1.3.3. Half the time it's not even working and you still get slammed to the ground and explode in a matter of seconds.

I just got streaked 3 times in less than 6 seconds, I mean come on, where is my cc immunity? Than you still have these cc-combinations you cant break out of. Full stamina and nothing happens.

They really have to look over cc-mechanics, especially if you consider the burst/TTK in PvP. People die 2-3 seconds. You cant afford to be cc'ed, because there's no way to recover (unless you have a pocket healer).

Prolong the cc immunity or give us more skills and abilities to counter (that actually responds). No one likes being jammed down to the ground unable to do anything, it's not a very pleasant gaming experience. It creates rage and frustrating, not healthy lol.

Rylana

Get your heavy armor skill line to level 22 and tell me again how much CC this game has

Bushrat

Agreed. Reduce CC please

bitaken

If you are suffering from too much CC the answer lies in your right mouse button (or whatever button you may have bound it to) not these forums. CC is how you score kills - and if your team does not co-ordinate CC and DPS and healing then you will not be able to perform at a reasonable level.

This has been true of MMO's since long ago.

And if you want to learn what CC is like I recommend you try the 40 second mezz that existed in DAOC. You lose the mez war you lose the fight. If the enemy landed the first AE mez - you lose - period end of sentence. When they introduced purge (self cast only) and Determination for melee classes it got better - but it was still lose the mez war - and lose the fight. The various CC and ability to instantly break out of it is very sound in this game. However, one must not belittle the value of stamina, and not belittle their ability to stop all CC on their own right.

h1roshim4_ESO

From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you only get CC immunity if you break the CC. Letting it run it's course doesn't grant immunity.

Cody

its not as bad as WoWs Constant stun locking(WoWs is awful) but every now and then you do come across a time where you are stun locked/Cc'ed to death, which is pretty annoying. Lets look at the bright side of it, just to keep the mood as happy as possible. When you manage to avoid/block these CC spams(which should be most of the time if you learned how to block/dodge all of them) then you will have an awesome time watching your foe drain their resources spamming that one attack over and over again, then dispatching them with ease. its pretty funny:)

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Rylana wrote: »

Get your heavy armor skill line to level 22 and tell me again how much CC this game has

Got it to 50 and there is the same amount of CC in the game.

It would help if the actual CC immunity got a duration boost as well, and attacks that currently CC but don't apply immunity would also not do that.

It would greatly help if CC immunity applied the moment you got CC'd instead of after the CC wears off, and would get a duration boost if you actually use breakfree.

JLB

Agree with OP, Cyrodiil would be much better with less CC or longer stun immunity (that works 100%).

Draxys

I don't think there's too much CC, however I do wish there was another way of preventing it instead of only gaining a few seconds of immunity by breaking out of it (if it even works).

Dudis

If they nerf CC they also have to nerf stuff like blocking, absorbs etc since you'd never be able to kill anyone in this game.
I'll give you that Roots probably need a CC immunity timer since sometimes having to roll 3-4 times to get away from a DK gets old pretty quickly.

Be careful with your Stamina and just break the CC. Blocking prevents a lot of CC too.

The unbreakable CC is a bug that will get fixed eventually.


Edit: Just try to count yourself how many times anyone is CCd for more than half a second in this clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYyLUnUMKEQ#t=55s

(the overly epic music is an inside-joke btw, oh well... :P)

JamilaRaj

h1roshim4_ESO wrote: »

From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you only get CC immunity if you break the CC. Letting it run it's course doesn't grant immunity.

I understand it that one gains immunity after CC fades even if he does not break out and I am inclined to say it actually triggers in the game (at least sometimes), but...
Templar jabs definitely do not trigger CC immunity (hence dreaded stun lock) despite being count as CC, as implied by the fact CC immune target can not be knocked back.
Eclipse (CC breakable skill) most likely does not trigger immunity neither, but, remarkably, can not be cast on knocked down target as though target had immunity from the moment he was knocked down, while Eclipse itself can be immediately followed by knockdown (not that there is point in doing it).
So, there are obviously many ifs attached, if not outright bugs.

Skwor

bitaken wrote: »

If you are suffering from too much CC the answer lies in your right mouse button (or whatever button you may have bound it to) not these forums. CC is how you score kills - and if your team does not co-ordinate CC and DPS and healing then you will not be able to perform at a reasonable level.

This has been true of MMO's since long ago.

And if you want to learn what CC is like I recommend you try the 40 second mezz that existed in DAOC. You lose the mez war you lose the fight. If the enemy landed the first AE mez - you lose - period end of sentence. When they introduced purge (self cast only) and Determination for melee classes it got better - but it was still lose the mez war - and lose the fight. The various CC and ability to instantly break out of it is very sound in this game. However, one must not belittle the value of stamina, and not belittle their ability to stop all CC on their own right.

I am going to call foul on your answer because certain classes can spam CC nearly as an instant cast resulting in 0 stamina in a VERY short time. As it stands right now your suggestion ignores that facts and possibly assumes I didn't know how to break CC. I am fully aware of how to break CC and the uses of purge.

Now if the stamina pool was increased or the required amount to break CC decreased or even removed I might start agreeing with you. Also if CC immunity was increased I would be fine but as it stands there is no real counters after your first 2-3 CC breaks and CC immunity works much less often than it doesn't work.

Skwor

JamilaRaj wrote: »

h1roshim4_ESO wrote: »

From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you only get CC immunity if you break the CC. Letting it run it's course doesn't grant immunity.

I understand it that one gains immunity after CC fades even if he does not break out and I am inclined to say it actually triggers in the game (at least sometimes), but...
Templar jabs definitely do not trigger CC immunity (hence dreaded stun lock) despite being count as CC, as implied by the fact CC immune target can not be knocked back.
Eclipse (CC breakable skill) most likely does not trigger immunity neither, but, remarkably, can not be cast on knocked down target as though target had immunity from the moment he was knocked down, while Eclipse itself can be immediately followed by knockdown (not that there is point in doing it).
So, there are obviously many ifs attached, if not outright bugs.

Funny I am a Templar and I find the last hit on Bitting Jabs rarely stuns a opponent like it should. Don't get me wrong it is wicked when it actually does stun but more often than not it doesn't. I have lost count of the number of Mages blinking away and NBs disappearing precisely because Biting Jabs failed to stun on last hit.

Dudis

I think the CC in this game is fine. It's one of the best systems i've seen thus far and if it wasn't for that bug that makes some CC combinations unbreakable, i'd make the argument that if you lost due to CC you were either far into the fight and overwhelmed or you have no one else to blame than yourself.


Now some corrections

bitaken wrote: »

And if you want to learn what CC is like I recommend you try the 40 second mezz that existed in DAOC. You lose the mez war you lose the fight. If the enemy landed the first AE mez - you lose - period end of sentence. When they introduced purge (self cast only) and Determination for melee classes it got better - but it was still lose the mez war - and lose the fight.

You're leaving out a couple of key elements that made DAoC CC work. I'm not going into specifics here since most people have no clue what DAoC is to begin with... I'll start by sayin that yeah it was bad to begin with but things improved a lot over time. If you're only talking about the first year or two of the game then fine, you're right, but...

1) EVERYONE could get rid of the initial CC immediately through different abilities
2) You got a 1 minute immunity to the CC type after it broke (the main ones were Root, Mezz(sleep), Stun and Nearsight (cast range debuff))
3) There were plenty of counters, you mentioned a couple but there are MANY more.

The initial CC was shrugged off pretty easily, the second round of CC was what's important because you had fewer counters available. Even then, you never saw a decent player in a decent group stand around CCd for more than a couple of seconds.

End of rant :P

demonlkojipub19_ESO

JamilaRaj wrote: »

h1roshim4_ESO wrote: »

From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you only get CC immunity if you break the CC. Letting it run it's course doesn't grant immunity.

I understand it that one gains immunity after CC fades even if he does not break out and I am inclined to say it actually triggers in the game (at least sometimes), but...
Templar jabs definitely do not trigger CC immunity (hence dreaded stun lock) despite being count as CC, as implied by the fact CC immune target can not be knocked back.
Eclipse (CC breakable skill) most likely does not trigger immunity neither, but, remarkably, can not be cast on knocked down target as though target had immunity from the moment he was knocked down, while Eclipse itself can be immediately followed by knockdown (not that there is point in doing it).
So, there are obviously many ifs attached, if not outright bugs.

The CC that isn't bugged atm will give you immunity if you let it run its duration. Uppercut, shield charge, and silver bolts are examples of CC that will properly give you immunity if you let the stun or knockdown duration wear off without CC breaking. Streak, talons, and Eclipse according to you are a few that won't for bug reasons.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Some CC can be broken, some other you can burn all your stamina to dodge and interrupt without getting a break.

Talons is the most common culprit. When you dodge it breaks but you get grabbed again. And again. And again. Until you die having run out of Stamina. Someone will say use medium armour, yeah sure, but that is what? 20% Stamina reduction on 5 part? Still needs all the stamina you can get to get out of it.

Also, Purge isn't working either against Talons.
And given the amount of CC in this game, is getting completely stupid.

I would suggest to remove all CC completely. Is not needed. PS2 for example which is mass PvP game, doesn't have it. And DAOC only had a mezz that took them 6 years to fix.

Remove all CC completely.

Draxys

How about we suggest things that are actually possible instead of saying remove something that is inherent to the game's combat. CC will never be taken away from the game.

One idea is adding another way to grant CC immunity, possibly as a part of a PvP skill line. It could even just prevent roots and snares (but being able to cast attacks simultaneously, unlike Maneuver), and thus also make sure Immovable still has a place in the game. It would obviously have to have a heavy cost, like at least 50% of your magicka or something, but I feel that having another way of avoiding CC is needed, as opposed to retroactively giving immunity.

bitaken

skwornub18_ESO wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

If you are suffering from too much CC the answer lies in your right mouse button (or whatever button you may have bound it to) not these forums. CC is how you score kills - and if your team does not co-ordinate CC and DPS and healing then you will not be able to perform at a reasonable level.

This has been true of MMO's since long ago.

And if you want to learn what CC is like I recommend you try the 40 second mezz that existed in DAOC. You lose the mez war you lose the fight. If the enemy landed the first AE mez - you lose - period end of sentence. When they introduced purge (self cast only) and Determination for melee classes it got better - but it was still lose the mez war - and lose the fight. The various CC and ability to instantly break out of it is very sound in this game. However, one must not belittle the value of stamina, and not belittle their ability to stop all CC on their own right.

Now if the stamina pool was increased or the required amount to break CC decreased or even removed I might start agreeing with you. .

You do realize you just stated two things that YOU can do with your armor loadout.....right?

However, people would rather stack things like weapon damage...and spell power...and glory items instead of utility based things. Again, this is your problem based on how you decided to setup your character. This is not ZOS fault. You could increase your stamina pool - decrease the cost of CC break - and all stamina based abilities - if you wanted to - but you choose not to....and then complain that these things are a problem.

So - who should be calling foul again?

Teargrants

This is silly, there is not too muh CC in the game. The problem lies with the way CC immunity (break free & immovable) bugs out regularly now since 1.3.3.

When those mechanics function properly, there is such a plethora of counters to CC that CC becomes meaningless against large groups because of immovable/purge/maneuvers/negate, not to mention simply blocking.

Skwor

bitaken wrote: »

skwornub18_ESO wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

If you are suffering from too much CC the answer lies in your right mouse button (or whatever button you may have bound it to) not these forums. CC is how you score kills - and if your team does not co-ordinate CC and DPS and healing then you will not be able to perform at a reasonable level.

This has been true of MMO's since long ago.

And if you want to learn what CC is like I recommend you try the 40 second mezz that existed in DAOC. You lose the mez war you lose the fight. If the enemy landed the first AE mez - you lose - period end of sentence. When they introduced purge (self cast only) and Determination for melee classes it got better - but it was still lose the mez war - and lose the fight. The various CC and ability to instantly break out of it is very sound in this game. However, one must not belittle the value of stamina, and not belittle their ability to stop all CC on their own right.

Now if the stamina pool was increased or the required amount to break CC decreased or even removed I might start agreeing with you. .

You do realize you just stated two things that YOU can do with your armor loadout.....right?

However, people would rather stack things like weapon damage...and spell power...and glory items instead of utility based things. Again, this is your problem based on how you decided to setup your character. This is not ZOS fault. You could increase your stamina pool - decrease the cost of CC break - and all stamina based abilities - if you wanted to - but you choose not to....and then complain that these things are a problem.

So - who should be calling foul again?

You do realize I have tried like many others, stop trying to argue in circles, I go stamina then I have no magicka left to speak of, As a Templar this is doubly crippling. Yes I cry foul because you are making suggestions that do not help and are not well thought out.

Just like the people arguing lethal arrow can be reduced in damage if you didn't were cloth, funny thing is though the skill is spell resists not armor. Same thing here, just go stamina build and have NO magicka to be a Templar with. Brilliant!

Skwor

Kirsika wrote: »

This is silly, there is not too muh CC in the game. The problem lies with the way CC immunity (break free & immovable) bugs out regularly now since 1.3.3.

When those mechanics function properly, there is such a plethora of counters to CC that CC becomes meaningless against large groups because of immovable/purge/maneuvers/negate, not to mention simply blocking.

Almost none of which work right now. Even if immunity did work there is still way to much CC, few people like a fight where it is decided by who locks done the other first leaving no ability to respond. It is stupid to design game mechanics around not fighting which is what all the CC in this game does.

Stunned to the ground dieing does not make for a fun fight.

ESO = Elder Stuns Online, no thank you.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

Rylana wrote: »

Get your heavy armor skill line to level 22 and tell me again how much CC this game has

I can'tell tell if you're trying to be funny or not. Immovable is super strong when working as intended. I however think it should be a magicka based effect rather than a stamina one considering all other armor uses magicka and stamina is used to dodge roll and weapon attack. This would be a push in the right direction to bridge the magicka vs stamina gap.

Skwor

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Get your heavy armor skill line to level 22 and tell me again how much CC this game has

I can'tell tell if you're trying to be funny or not. Immovable is super strong when working as intended. I however think it should be a magicka based effect rather than a stamina one considering all other armor uses magicka and stamina is used to dodge roll and weapon attack. This would be a push in the right direction to bridge the magicka vs stamina gap.

I also has to LOL especially given my Heavy Armor is level 50. Yep still think the amount of CC is ridiculous.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

skwornub18_ESO wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

h1roshim4_ESO wrote: »

From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you only get CC immunity if you break the CC. Letting it run it's course doesn't grant immunity.

I understand it that one gains immunity after CC fades even if he does not break out and I am inclined to say it actually triggers in the game (at least sometimes), but...
Templar jabs definitely do not trigger CC immunity (hence dreaded stun lock) despite being count as CC, as implied by the fact CC immune target can not be knocked back.
Eclipse (CC breakable skill) most likely does not trigger immunity neither, but, remarkably, can not be cast on knocked down target as though target had immunity from the moment he was knocked down, while Eclipse itself can be immediately followed by knockdown (not that there is point in doing it).
So, there are obviously many ifs attached, if not outright bugs.

Funny I am a Templar and I find the last hit on Bitting Jabs rarely stuns a opponent like it should. Don't get me wrong it is wicked when it actually does stun but more often than not it doesn't. I have lost count of the number of Mages blinking away and NBs disappearing precisely because Biting Jabs failed to stun on last hit.

You can cc break biting jabs which is what the sorc or nb has done to accomplish their escape skill.

Skwor

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

skwornub18_ESO wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

h1roshim4_ESO wrote: »

From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you only get CC immunity if you break the CC. Letting it run it's course doesn't grant immunity.

I understand it that one gains immunity after CC fades even if he does not break out and I am inclined to say it actually triggers in the game (at least sometimes), but...
Templar jabs definitely do not trigger CC immunity (hence dreaded stun lock) despite being count as CC, as implied by the fact CC immune target can not be knocked back.
Eclipse (CC breakable skill) most likely does not trigger immunity neither, but, remarkably, can not be cast on knocked down target as though target had immunity from the moment he was knocked down, while Eclipse itself can be immediately followed by knockdown (not that there is point in doing it).
So, there are obviously many ifs attached, if not outright bugs.

Funny I am a Templar and I find the last hit on Bitting Jabs rarely stuns a opponent like it should. Don't get me wrong it is wicked when it actually does stun but more often than not it doesn't. I have lost count of the number of Mages blinking away and NBs disappearing precisely because Biting Jabs failed to stun on last hit.

You can cc break biting jabs which is what the sorc or nb has done to accomplish their escape skill.

Which makes my point that biting jabs does not stun lock like some here try to say it does.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

bitaken wrote: »

skwornub18_ESO wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

If you are suffering from too much CC the answer lies in your right mouse button (or whatever button you may have bound it to) not these forums. CC is how you score kills - and if your team does not co-ordinate CC and DPS and healing then you will not be able to perform at a reasonable level.

This has been true of MMO's since long ago.

And if you want to learn what CC is like I recommend you try the 40 second mezz that existed in DAOC. You lose the mez war you lose the fight. If the enemy landed the first AE mez - you lose - period end of sentence. When they introduced purge (self cast only) and Determination for melee classes it got better - but it was still lose the mez war - and lose the fight. The various CC and ability to instantly break out of it is very sound in this game. However, one must not belittle the value of stamina, and not belittle their ability to stop all CC on their own right.

Now if the stamina pool was increased or the required amount to break CC decreased or even removed I might start agreeing with you. .

You do realize you just stated two things that YOU can do with your armor loadout.....right?

However, people would rather stack things like weapon damage...and spell power...and glory items instead of utility based things. Again, this is your problem based on how you decided to setup your character. This is not ZOS fault. You could increase your stamina pool - decrease the cost of CC break - and all stamina based abilities - if you wanted to - but you choose not to....and then complain that these things are a problem.

So - who should be calling foul again?

Roll dodging should cost stamina and magicka. Why should one build magicka have an advantage over another stamina in this case? If they did that or create a separate 3rd resource it would be more balanced. At the moment to skew utility toward magicka so much when it is already so far ahead seems weird to me.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

skwornub18_ESO wrote: »

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

skwornub18_ESO wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

h1roshim4_ESO wrote: »

From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you only get CC immunity if you break the CC. Letting it run it's course doesn't grant immunity.

I understand it that one gains immunity after CC fades even if he does not break out and I am inclined to say it actually triggers in the game (at least sometimes), but...
Templar jabs definitely do not trigger CC immunity (hence dreaded stun lock) despite being count as CC, as implied by the fact CC immune target can not be knocked back.
Eclipse (CC breakable skill) most likely does not trigger immunity neither, but, remarkably, can not be cast on knocked down target as though target had immunity from the moment he was knocked down, while Eclipse itself can be immediately followed by knockdown (not that there is point in doing it).
So, there are obviously many ifs attached, if not outright bugs.

Funny I am a Templar and I find the last hit on Bitting Jabs rarely stuns a opponent like it should. Don't get me wrong it is wicked when it actually does stun but more often than not it doesn't. I have lost count of the number of Mages blinking away and NBs disappearing precisely because Biting Jabs failed to stun on last hit.

You can cc break biting jabs which is what the sorc or nb has done to accomplish their escape skill.

Which makes my point that biting jabs does not stun lock like some here try to say it does.

Then that's true about all cc. Yes there are cases when you can't break out of CC and biting jabs does in fact have this issue as well some people know how to exploit it some dont. In your case you don't which isn't a bad thing cause by the tone your posts have been taking it seems like you think you are entitled to an unbreakable stun.

Teargrants

@skwornub18_ESO‌
The entire problem is from these several bugs:

1 - CC immunity not activating properly
2 - Immovable not providing CC immunity
3 - Unbreakable CC from knockdown/stun + root combo

These are all bugs which ZOS has acknowledged, of course I have reservations about when if ever they will be fixed. That doesn't mean that there's too much CC in the game, just that these bugs need to be fixed ASAP.

Being locked down by CC as you put it is only a result of these bugs. If you are getting repeatedly hard CC'd each time after the immunity timer wears off then it's a problem with your build and play style. Way of the arena for instance reduces CC break cost by 40%.

As a LA sorc with only 1100 stamina, I can CC break/roll about 2-3 times before going OOS and dying. Yet that almost never happens to me because i hold block and use wards.

The only issue I have with CC design is how knockoff from horse is unbreakable.

Skwor

Kirsika wrote: »

@skwornub18_ESO‌
The entire problem is from these several bugs:

1 - CC immunity not activating properly
2 - Immovable not providing CC immunity
3 - Unbreakable CC from knockdown/stun + root combo

These are all bugs which ZOS has acknowledged, of course I have reservations about when if ever they will be fixed. That doesn't mean that there's too much CC in the game, just that these bugs need to be fixed ASAP.

Being locked down by CC as you put it is only a result of these bugs. If you are getting repeatedly hard CC'd each time after the immunity timer wears off then it's a problem with your build and play style. Way of the arena for instance reduces CC break cost by 40%.

As a LA sorc with only 1100 stamina, I can CC break/roll about 2-3 times before going OOS and dying. Yet that almost never happens to me because i hold block and use wards.

The only issue I have with CC design is how knockoff from horse is unbreakable.

Sorry a lot more problems than that, I was just sneaking in game a rogue hit me with an arrow and stunned locked me. Close to full stamina because I just used a pot still I was unable to get up CC was unbreakable . He hit me with 5 arrow attacks to kill me and I could not break stun.