How I Learned to Enjoy ESO
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bellanca6561n
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This was not love at first sight. Never cared for stand-alone games and never enjoyed quest based online games. Been a game developer since '91, an online game player since '84 and I still work for a game dev studio that continues to find an audience for online games that have no quests and no PvE.
Clearly the folks who made this game are learning and learning FAST but this is their first online game so I expected problems. But that's never enjoyable...not for the customer or the developer. But I did fall in love with this game.
1. I stopped viewing it as a made for medium product.
This is not a typical MMO. It's more a MUSH: multi-user shared habitat. No two people can proceed through a scripted narrative at the same pace. Thus when I began playing it as a stand alone adventure game, with folks around to pitch in and help or be helped by occasionally, this is when I began to view it as more than just a different sort of product but as an enjoyable one as well.
2. I refused to participate in the Veteran Rank system.
As a stand alone adventure game, having one character play all three faction stories made no sense to me. So, after hitting VR7 with my first one, I decided to make a character in each faction, play that faction, and quit that character at 50. In short, I decided to get into the prepared narrative and accept my role as silent protagonist.
3. Therefore I rolled a lot of characters and experienced the richness of the class and combat systems. Lots of potential variation here.
Fun Quest Chains
In the main, quest chains in ESO are stories from old westerns. You ride into town, something's wrong because a bad guy and his gang have taken over. You help the citizens fight back and have the big show down with the boss bad guy whom you kill. And, to the cheers of the appreciative town folks, you ride away; your work there is done.
I grew up on this stuff. You even have the drunk sheriff whom you help sober up and face the gang of bad guys, right out of the John Wayne/Howard Hawks western, Rio Bravo.
Great Quest Chains
1. Stopping the Planemeld in Cold Harbor
2.
Best quest chain, I feel, is the planemeld arc in Cold Harbor. It's nicely done in the classic tradition.
You gather together all the characters you've collected along the way for a rather challenging series of varied missions, complete with King Dynar, the last of the Ayleid race whom you've met earlier too in a time travel adventure. He alone senses you are out of place in the reality of that earlier quest and recalls that incident which, for him, was centuries ago, just before the final battle. Nice touch.
Cold Harbor also features those marvelous take a leap moments, either the long plunge into water or this one I like to call Last Ayelid King Airlines.
2. Saving the "Misfit" Apprentice Mages
Alas, I cannot recall the name of this quest. It follows the old western plot of a bad guy taking over a place, but your allies are three awkward student mages with unique abilities that you need to use to win the day. It was charming and featured solutions other than the usual just-kill-stuff.
3. Saving High King Emeric
Each faction has its save the ruler series of quests but King Emeric is the most interesting of the ESO monarchs and saving him involves an intriguing variety of quests.
The Quest Chain That Could Have Been Great
The main story line quest could have been wonderful but it failed for me.
None of those characters interested me, those quests lacked the imagination of many of the others, and were filled with and-now-we're-going-to-try-to-kill-you moments.
And too many moments that felt forced like the one below. Why am I supposed to care about the amazing deeds of long dead warriors in a crypt whom I never encountered in the game. Games are activities, not stories, and you only engage in the story as a result of activity or as direct context for an activity you're engaged in.
PvP
I enjoyed PvP in the beta immensely but less so in the production game. Characters, made mutants by leveling systems born of the need to battle bigger and fiercer AI opponents were deposited into an environment where their opponents were people.
I tried the 5 day below VR Cyrodiil campaign. These weren't well attended so I just went around bushwhacking people, kids mostly looking for something to do while taking a break from DayZ.
And, because you can't turn off XP gain, my characters are quickly faced with two choices: being overmatched in the mutants arena or becoming a mutant and playing mutant PvP.
Looking Forward
Although it is likely that this game will take the course of others and simply keep raising the level cap to please hard core MMO players who will end up leaving anyway, my hope is that it takes the path of the only broadly successful MMO expansion I know of, Ultima Online Renaissance. UO:R was aimed at pleasing multiple audiences, not just veterans, not just the hard core. Unlike other MMO expansions, which are not expansions at all really but extensions, UO:R doubled the player base for the game on an ongoing basis that lasted for nearly 10 years.
If your game is built on quests then have more of them and not just for the top levels. If your game is item based, then have more of them but, again, not just for the upper upper tiers.
Otherwise it will be like a stand alone adventure game in another respect: players will complete it.
Clearly the folks who made this game are learning and learning FAST but this is their first online game so I expected problems. But that's never enjoyable...not for the customer or the developer. But I did fall in love with this game.
1. I stopped viewing it as a made for medium product.
This is not a typical MMO. It's more a MUSH: multi-user shared habitat. No two people can proceed through a scripted narrative at the same pace. Thus when I began playing it as a stand alone adventure game, with folks around to pitch in and help or be helped by occasionally, this is when I began to view it as more than just a different sort of product but as an enjoyable one as well.
2. I refused to participate in the Veteran Rank system.
As a stand alone adventure game, having one character play all three faction stories made no sense to me. So, after hitting VR7 with my first one, I decided to make a character in each faction, play that faction, and quit that character at 50. In short, I decided to get into the prepared narrative and accept my role as silent protagonist.
3. Therefore I rolled a lot of characters and experienced the richness of the class and combat systems. Lots of potential variation here.
Fun Quest Chains
In the main, quest chains in ESO are stories from old westerns. You ride into town, something's wrong because a bad guy and his gang have taken over. You help the citizens fight back and have the big show down with the boss bad guy whom you kill. And, to the cheers of the appreciative town folks, you ride away; your work there is done.
I grew up on this stuff. You even have the drunk sheriff whom you help sober up and face the gang of bad guys, right out of the John Wayne/Howard Hawks western, Rio Bravo.
Great Quest Chains
1. Stopping the Planemeld in Cold Harbor
2.
Best quest chain, I feel, is the planemeld arc in Cold Harbor. It's nicely done in the classic tradition.
You gather together all the characters you've collected along the way for a rather challenging series of varied missions, complete with King Dynar, the last of the Ayleid race whom you've met earlier too in a time travel adventure. He alone senses you are out of place in the reality of that earlier quest and recalls that incident which, for him, was centuries ago, just before the final battle. Nice touch.
Cold Harbor also features those marvelous take a leap moments, either the long plunge into water or this one I like to call Last Ayelid King Airlines.
2. Saving the "Misfit" Apprentice Mages
Alas, I cannot recall the name of this quest. It follows the old western plot of a bad guy taking over a place, but your allies are three awkward student mages with unique abilities that you need to use to win the day. It was charming and featured solutions other than the usual just-kill-stuff.
3. Saving High King Emeric
Each faction has its save the ruler series of quests but King Emeric is the most interesting of the ESO monarchs and saving him involves an intriguing variety of quests.
The Quest Chain That Could Have Been Great
The main story line quest could have been wonderful but it failed for me.
None of those characters interested me, those quests lacked the imagination of many of the others, and were filled with and-now-we're-going-to-try-to-kill-you moments.
And too many moments that felt forced like the one below. Why am I supposed to care about the amazing deeds of long dead warriors in a crypt whom I never encountered in the game. Games are activities, not stories, and you only engage in the story as a result of activity or as direct context for an activity you're engaged in.
PvP
I enjoyed PvP in the beta immensely but less so in the production game. Characters, made mutants by leveling systems born of the need to battle bigger and fiercer AI opponents were deposited into an environment where their opponents were people.
I tried the 5 day below VR Cyrodiil campaign. These weren't well attended so I just went around bushwhacking people, kids mostly looking for something to do while taking a break from DayZ.
And, because you can't turn off XP gain, my characters are quickly faced with two choices: being overmatched in the mutants arena or becoming a mutant and playing mutant PvP.
Looking Forward
Although it is likely that this game will take the course of others and simply keep raising the level cap to please hard core MMO players who will end up leaving anyway, my hope is that it takes the path of the only broadly successful MMO expansion I know of, Ultima Online Renaissance. UO:R was aimed at pleasing multiple audiences, not just veterans, not just the hard core. Unlike other MMO expansions, which are not expansions at all really but extensions, UO:R doubled the player base for the game on an ongoing basis that lasted for nearly 10 years.
If your game is built on quests then have more of them and not just for the top levels. If your game is item based, then have more of them but, again, not just for the upper upper tiers.
Otherwise it will be like a stand alone adventure game in another respect: players will complete it.
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Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This is my favorite post on the forums so far.
A lot of people don't understand how new the game is, and problems that come with that. I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees how fantastic the bones of ESO are, and how much potential it has if they take it in the right direction.Edited by Sallington on August 20, 2014 2:11PMDaggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||5 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭1. I agree it is a MUSH instead of an MMO but the Developers treat it like "Must Group Online" which leaves the casuals out of the "real game."
2. I like many of the quests but there are too many Trolly Situations. Sometimes I just want to feel good about what I just did.
3. PVP is great but you MUST get into a Voice Chat guild that knows what to do, or you will just pug which means you will totally fail and not enjoy PVP.
UO:R gave a big initial boost, but was the first nail in the coffin. All future updates were only for PVE areas so "Reds" (Criminals) couldn't participate in anything, they were "Fel Locked" if you will. With the coming of each other update, one more nail was planted which along with a total failure to ban Gold Sellers, Gold Buyers, Dupers, Botters, Exploiters the game wound up with less than 100k players by 2008 according to Wikipedia.
If the story of UO offers anything to ESO, it is that you might draw in a significant population with an update geared to "Fix all the problems" but ignoring your playerbase, adding unwanted hardcaps/diminishing returns softcaps, and forcing each skill to be dependent on a Useless Skill... You wind up creating a game that nobody can enjoy because your efforts to police Hardcore Players had terrible ramifications for Casual Players.
Hopefully ESO can look at the failure of UO, and learn what not to do. Because this whole Level/Gear Treadmill is a nail in the coffin.Edited by Soloeus on August 20, 2014 2:25PM
Within; Without.1 -
Evergnar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Great thread. Although I enjoyed the main quest line more than faction I think you make a good point that it's the disconnect or disjointedness during questlines that are a let down.
The "who is this, and why do I care" presents itself too often. It's as if too many ideas/characters were included without building them up into the story. A lack background supporting a character or aspect of the story makes it feel very random.
Hopefully the devs see these things as well and/or listen to players. It shouldn't be too hard to incorporate some new dialogue, quests, whatever to help support what already exists.
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stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭To be fair, there is quite a bit of interesting backstory to many NPCs and quests. It's not thrown in your face, but it's there, in books, scraps of paper, optional dialog and some cutscenes here and there. Valaste comes to mind as one of the richer and more likeable NPCs in the game. I can always wish for more of that kind of quality in writing and voice acting, but quite a lot of it is already there in ESO, and I enjoy it.
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Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If the story of UO offers anything to ESO, it is that you might draw in a significant population with an update geared to "Fix all the problems" but ignoring your playerbase, adding unwanted hardcaps/diminishing returns softcaps, and forcing each skill to be dependent on a Useless Skill... You wind up creating a game that nobody can enjoy because your efforts to police Hardcore Players had terrible ramifications for Casual Players.
You end up with the same problem if you pursue a purely "balance by nerf" approach. Balance has to come from improving what isn't working, not ruining what does because a bunch of FoTM min/maxers read how to exploit it in the meta game on the internet.Edited by Phinix1 on August 20, 2014 3:31PM3 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭While I agree with the OP, I do wonder in how big of an identity crisis a game must be in, when customers have to learn how to enjoy the product. And it does raise the question why there has to be an 'always-on' internet connection to official server only, when the same - or even better - gaming experience could be achieved offline, p2p or with private servers.
ZOS chose to develop a subscription based MMO and advertised it as such. Taking into account the considerable costs for creating this game, I don't think they can sustain the needed customer base if they just deliver a MUSH instead. I don't really blame them, it's pretty much the same with most other so called MMOs released lately. But most ran into trouble achieving the set goals or were even struggling to be profitable as well.
So either the use of a server with tens of thousands players simultanously online must be more apparent by actually letting all those players have an effect on each other and the hosted world - or you'd have to manage to deliver content worth over twenty bucks every month. Which, quite frankly, I cannot see anyone doing, at least not in a certain quality.
Well, that's just my take from the point of view of the consumer, I'd love to hear the OPs thoughts as a developer on this."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"0 -
DogFaceInBananaPatch✭✭✭✭bellanca6561n wrote: »
If your game is built on quests then have more of them and not just for the top levels. If your game is item based, then have more of them but, again, not just for the upper upper tiers.
Just want to make sure you have a TL;DR quote.
Great write-up, thanks.
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Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »
You end up with the same problem if you pursue a purely "balance by nerf" approach. Balance has to come from improving what isn't working, not ruining what does because a bunch of FoTM min/maxers read how to exploit it in the meta game on the internet.
I agree. Nerfing is often done instead of Fixing which also led to the downfall of UO. Constant Nerfing, and often without actually fixing or addressing the issues. This drove away Casuals who might have used those skills/gear that was nerfed but for whatever reason didn't exploit. It also drove away people who learn FOTM, spend 3 months building it to be competitive then 3 days later, it gets Stealth Nerfed.
Balance By Nerf has never worked as a solution and only serves ending subscriptions and driving players into other games.
Most people play whatever they play because its fun. Then, when the nerf makes it unfun the player is no longer having fun which is a principle reason to stop paying 15.00 USD a month for it.
Ultima Online's first "real" nerf was taking Magic and making it so Use Magic unlocks Spells and some other skill raised its Potency. Healing was given Anatomy as a useless skill for potency. Vet (Veterinary, Pets) were given a Useless Skill. Combat Skills were also given useless skills. So, out of your 700 points you have to contribute 120-360 into one thing. The cap was 100 but Powerscrolls from their version of PVP Dolmens allowed a skill up to 120.
Then they started reducing the potency of almost all items and adding new skills. New Lands served the purpose only of adding a few PVE spawns and Gear, which was either worthless immediately or godly.
ESO can learn that players who invest time and effort into having fun at something, once what they enjoyed doing is rendered unfun, those players leave. You might have honest intentions like stopping an exploit, or balancing different classes toward one another, but the impact of your design changes has a direct impact on how fun the game remains to be.
Within; Without.1
