What ESO Could Have Been?

SongOfMyPeople

I generally hate to compare features of different MMOs because each game offers something different, but I've just been confused on some design decisions that were included in this game. They already had a background for how Elder Scrolls games played and a plethora of different topics coming from the lore to inject into their design. Here are some of the issues I take with the game and perhaps a possible fix:

1.Class design
Why? Why? Why did they decide to make static classes in this game? This seems to just go against all things ES related. They already have skill lines fleshed out, why not allow players to pick the three they liked best and use that as a class. This has been done in other MMOs and offers greater freedom to spec how you want. Granted there will be FOTM builds still, but no matter the system they will still exist. I realize it's probably too late for ungrouping skill lines, but I really can't see why this wasn't thought of at design (my guess is money was allocated into voice acting instead of decent/experienced programmers).

2.Armour
You're going to put all the buffs for your most powerful skills into one type of armour that can put you at or close to the armour cap and then make the game a dps/heal race.
Bigger differences between armour protection is necessary! I cannot even tell the difference in wear 7 light vs medium when looking just at protection, heavy you can tell helps a little but you start getting over cap with 7 heavy at around level 10-15.
Nerf or change passives on armour! Why make the passives so huge? It makes it harder to balance on everyone. Passives should be small extras, say 1% per piece. You can even go by 0.5% for each point, but we had to have 3% per piece of armour! Do you see how much you can get with a set of 7? 21%!!! That is no small reduction! Reducing these buffs would AND changing armour protection could solve the armour imbalance in this game, and it should be relatively easy to fix this!

3. Other features
Underwater swimming/ boating
I got into the beta for ArcheAge this weekend and I really wondered why ESO couldn't have at the very least had an underwater swimming mechanism, the Argonians are waiting! Boating would also be a nice touch, create a mount type device that can be used on the water and then just restrict a border so people can't go out of bounds or something.

Trading!
So many ways to open up the game through trading (yeah, I got the idea from ArcheAge, but it is a good one!). Have certain quests from NPCs that require you to craft something from a certain zone/ collecting items from multiple sources and bringing them back. They could be special recipe drops or rare drops off mobs(both of which are already in-game) and I'm sure the PvE players would love it!

Set up a trading board in each town for crafting and trading items. Player A posts which item he wants and at what price. Player B goes to a trade board and has the item Player A wants. Player B accepts trade agreement, which should show up as a notification for Player A and both players have the names of each other. They can talk or Player B can just mail said item/s. You could even tie it into the justice system! Player B takes a trade agreement and doesn't fulfill it in 12 hours? -Rep/-Points or whatever the justice system uses.

Housing
Pretty much a staple for most MMOs. People want a place to call their own. A limited storage in the house and somewhere to display goodies/furniture. I would love a well developed housing system with all the bells and whistles, but I suggest starting small and working up. I'm sure there are plenty of threads with features that the community wants, so I'm not going to list a bunch.

Arena
Personally, I hate arenas for PvP, but I realize it's a popular "want" item by many. This isn't my idea and if I could find the thread that suggested this, I would link it. Have an instanced arena be a part of the Imperial City, whoever controls it gets to play with it. Granted, you'd be playing against your own faction members, but you can call it a battle training arena or something and let people go at it. It would be like a spar but with small teams, heck do the 4v4v4 as a simulated "alliance war". Have leader boards that reset with the campaign. You'll see people AvA to get that city and not want to lose it just for that arena. PvP people happy.


I welcome any feedback on my suggestions, and perhaps ZOS can take a look!

SongOfMyPeople

I got 1 "LOL" damn, teach me to waste my time writing up suggestions

Nox_Aeterna

1) I agree with this one , also dont see the need for classes that actually limit/close your skills/options , in a TES game this is almost an absurd.

2) Personally i like how passives work , i also think they should change to make them more appealing to certain play styles , but i like that they give big bonus for picking one over the other instead of using anything.

3) I agree that it would be nice to have underwater stuff , one would think this was a given in a TES game , but again we see that they didnt really care about details when making the game.

4) Agree that trading needs to improve , personally i dont deal with other player directly , so i would prefer more AH solutions , but zen appears to be trying things on this side atleast.

5) Again a given in a normal TES game , we also see it housing lacking in ESO. AND NO , wildstar came with housing right from the start , just like other MMOs coming out today , this is not something you only need to add down the line. This is another ESO flaw , not something the devs could let pass for 2/3 years.


Personally i would also like them to add companions to the game , i never play a Fallout or TES game without them now and modders have done an awesome work creating some great followers in those games.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

I was with you until swimming. Then i gave up. Im sure the clever come back will be look at how arch age does swimming it is awesome! It might be, i haven't played it. But i do know that swimming in every mmo i have ever played and it is a bunch, has sucked. Completely totally stunk. Yes yes i get it, ESO would do swimming perfect and it would be fun and exciting! No it would suck just like all the others. Im glad the devs don't waste their time with it.

To sum up,
Swimming sucks.

SongOfMyPeople

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

I was with you until swimming. Then i gave up. Im sure the clever come back will be look at how arch age does swimming it is awesome! It might be, i haven't played it. But i do know that swimming in every mmo i have ever played and it is a bunch, has sucked. Completely totally stunk. Yes yes i get it, ESO would do swimming perfect and it would be fun and exciting! No it would suck just like all the others. Im glad the devs don't waste their time with it.

To sum up,
Swimming sucks.

I've never really played with swimming in an MMO besides when I tried ArcheAge, so I don't have too much experience with it. My guess is you're probably right. Although you'd think with the budget this game had that there would have been something a little more. I really wanted this game to be the one.

Evergnar

I agree with most of what OP said but a lot of the those things are either not going to happen or not happen for a very long time. Why? I have no clue why. The devs have addressed several of those topics though (directly and indirectly) and the answers have been "we want to do it right" or "we want to be very careful" or "we don't plan on changing that".

Aett_Thorn

1) I feel like this was done as a sort of "moron insurance", trying to make it so that nobody creates a completely gimped character. However, I really wish that games would stop trying to do that, and let us figure it out on our own if, in this case, three skill lines just won't work together at all. Also, if the skill lines are balanced, you shouldn't have the ability to gimp a character if they choose even three lines at random. It just feels like this was done to prevent the lowest common denominator from messing things up and complaining. Of course, it just led to other issues because the lines weren't balanced anyways or powers (and passives) didn't work.

2) Agreed. Heavy Armor right now feels like it's gotten the shaft, and I really wish they had made it more based on survivability versus tank-ability. Survivability increases tank-ability, but not necessarily the other way around. Heavy armor should be the best protection from all attacks hands-down, but shouldn't be as offensive. That should be the trade off. Right now, it just doesn't have enough survivability difference to make up for the lack of offense.

3) I loved underwater exploration in Skyrim, but don't necessarily need it here. I'm also one of those players that could give a damn if housing or dueling arenas were in the game. However, I'm not going to argue against their inclusion, since I know that other people want them. I think that at this point, the Devs need to own their mistake a bit and put in even a faction-specific trading hub for items.

nicholaspingasb16_ESO

All good features/changes/suggestions that should have been in at launch. Enjoy the ESO beta folks!

SongOfMyPeople

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

All good features/changes/suggestions that should have been in at launch. Enjoy the ESO beta folks!

Yeah, I'm getting a bit tired of it tbh. I hate to say it, but I might let my sub slip a few months to see if they can do better.

Pmarsico9

1) Sure.

2) No. Just no. There's major problems with Armor, but your analysis is pretty far off. Essentially, let me sum it up for you this way:

Light armor is overpowered and truly the only viable armor due to the fact that 99% of the game scales off magicka and magicka damage. OK, maybe not 99% but the parts that matter.

There's a plethora of suggestions on how to fix it.

3) No on everything but housing which will happen eventually. Small group PVP is inevitable.

Gix

Housing? "Staple of most MMOs"? Are you serious? Almost none (with a few rare exceptions) of them can make player housing correctly.

The problem comes from physical space in the world. Maybe guildhalls could work (if owning a piece of land was expensive enough) but, in ESO's case, I'd much rather see the Fighter's Guild and Mage's Guild to be areas for players to gather at; bringing people together by common ground.

That's what those guilds are supposed to be for, am I right?

For playing housing to work, you have to find something worth doing inside. It can't be just another closet instance because that loses value. Gardening? Really, WildStar? That's lame; that's just another grind mechanic!

SongOfMyPeople

Gix wrote: »

Housing? "Staple of most MMOs"? Are you serious? Almost none (with a few rare exceptions) of them can make player housing correctly.

So you mean none of them can make housing for the purpose you want it and therefore shouldn't make housing at all. I don't mean to sound argumentative but I've had lots of fun inviting a few friends to a personal house before or going to a guild house with members of my guild in different MMOs. I'm sorry you feel that way.

Xnemesis

err #1 is a bit off Skyrim was the only ES game that did away with classes, in favor of the constellation system.

Housing and arenas will make it into the game eventually.

Everything else though I pretty much agree with though.

Nox_Aeterna

Xnemesis wrote: »

err #1 is a bit off Skyrim was the only ES game that did away with classes, in favor of the constellation system.

Housing and arenas will make it into the game eventually.

Everything else though I pretty much agree with though.

Indeed , BUT that doesnt mean these classes work the same.

The classes before didnt limit your char either. They were guide lines.

Can i pick DK skills on a templar but lvl them slower? Think not.

Xnemesis

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

err #1 is a bit off Skyrim was the only ES game that did away with classes, in favor of the constellation system.

Housing and arenas will make it into the game eventually.

Everything else though I pretty much agree with though.

Indeed , BUT that doesnt mean these classes work the same.

The classes before didnt limit your char either. They were guide lines.

Can i pick DK skills on a templar but lvl them slower? Think not.

No you are correct I was just pointing out that its very ES like to have classes. The ES series had 23 classes throughout the series and then ESO added two for some odd reason.

I also like the class system it creates a small bit of flavor that is somewhat distinct. I would hate it already that all classes and players have to use the same armor type and weapon to go to raids. Imagine if there were no classes...everyone would have to roll the elitist build of the 5 best abilities in game plus ult or GTFO. As it is right now you have a slight opportunity to roll a unique build based on your class.

Not only that but why would anyone ever roll another character other than for RP reasons. If you strip classes you literally remove any permanent consequences for your decisions past character creation.

Gix

SongOfMyPeople wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

Housing? "Staple of most MMOs"? Are you serious? Almost none (with a few rare exceptions) of them can make player housing correctly.

So you mean none of them can make housing for the purpose you want it and therefore shouldn't make housing at all. I don't mean to sound argumentative but I've had lots of fun inviting a few friends to a personal house before or going to a guild house with members of my guild in different MMOs. I'm sorry you feel that way.

I'm not the one trying to shoe-horn some half-!@#ed feature just because "other games have it".

I'm not against the idea that they implement playing housing. I'm arguing against your reasoning to add it. I'd rather they build a feature that'll work FOR the game rather than have something built to satisfy some checklist.

I actually enjoy what I have in front of me. So who's sorry for whom, I wonder?

Nox_Aeterna

Xnemesis wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

err #1 is a bit off Skyrim was the only ES game that did away with classes, in favor of the constellation system.

Housing and arenas will make it into the game eventually.

Everything else though I pretty much agree with though.

Indeed , BUT that doesnt mean these classes work the same.

The classes before didnt limit your char either. They were guide lines.

Can i pick DK skills on a templar but lvl them slower? Think not.

No you are correct I was just pointing out that its very ES like to have classes. The ES series had 23 classes throughout the series and then ESO added two for some odd reason.

I also like the class system it creates a small bit of flavor that is somewhat distinct. I would hate it already that all classes and players have to use the same armor type and weapon to go to raids. Imagine if there were no classes...everyone would have to roll the elitist build of the 5 best abilities in game plus ult or GTFO. As it is right now you have a slight opportunity to roll a unique build based on your class.

Not only that but why would anyone ever roll another character other than for RP reasons. If you strip classes you literally remove any permanent consequences for your decisions past character creation.

IF you could use all skills of all classes , chances are you simply couldnt fit such best skills in the into just 5 slots.

There are just too many skills and with time they will add more and more.

So in the end , you would indeed have better skills and such , but you would have multiple builds that are great to pick from.

Which is not at all different than now , but limited to inside each class. You create a forced variation and diversity.

Same could be said about the new char. You dont create one because you wanted a new one and all that , you create one because you are tired of your old one and you cant access new skills there so you are forced to make a new char.

TES games didnt force this , you could even use the console to change thing you had already picked or lvled even and yet people would still make new chars just the same , i myself had plenty of them , not because they were limited , but because i just wanted to start over.

Pmarsico9

Xnemesis wrote: »

I also like the class system it creates a small bit of flavor that is somewhat distinct. I would hate it already that all classes and players have to use the same armor type and weapon to go to raids. Imagine if there were no classes...everyone would have to roll the elitist build of the 5 best abilities in game plus ult or GTFO. As it is right now you have a slight opportunity to roll a unique build based on your class.

How is that different from now?

seaef

SongOfMyPeople wrote: »

I got 1 "LOL" damn, teach me to waste my time writing up suggestions

Waste YOUR time?