my apologies

Gorthax

in a rant of frustration i decided to post something that i regret *note i did not read any comments* It is not zenimax fault. so I retract what i said and instead apologize.

TheSojourner

L2P?

Phantax

I feel anger in you my young one !
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Avn2nT16FA

AlexDougherty

Well they do need to fix stamina builds, but the OP needs to calm down a bit, and maybe fix the spelling in his post too.

Tabbycat

OP, you seem stressed.

madangrypally

I understand where the OP is coming from though. There are still many major bugs and issues in game even after 4 months. They are pushing new content while not fixing the content they have.

Bugs:
1: Passives and Active abilities that are not working as intended.
2: Gear that are not working as intended.
3: Spell Penetration not working as intended (or if it is needs to be changed)
4: Damage Shield stacking that have additional properties like Harness Magicka and Blazing Shield.
5: Unbreakable Stuns.
6: Many Many more bugs.

Other Key issues:
1: Stamina Weapon and stamina build.
2: Blocking balancing
3: Forward Camp fast travel in PvP
4: Class balancing. (No nerfs are needed, but a few slight tweaks)
5: Worthless traits on gear.
6: Many Many more issues.


I love the game and see potential. If they dont fix the game though Ill be out when the next good MMO is released. Iv been playing since beta and I can see myself playing for years to come, but only if they fix the above issues.

TaffyIX

Thanks for the ignore function ZOS

go0f1

I running a stamina build for 2 days and lost 10% 1v1 duells and won 80% of 1v2 duells. So stamina build is viable.

Elsonso

It is a game where every character has access to magic.

It should not be surprising to anyone, let alone someone who has been around since Beta, that this game favors magic. I noticed this right away in Beta.

I think it is cool that they are working on bringing Stamina up, but players need to realize that this is a game of magic. While Stamina might be improved, this game is a game of magic.

MSG1000

Stamina builds will work fine for general questing but definitely for higher level play they will not stack up to muster. It's okay to take a break and come back when stuff is fixed if the problems bother you so much.

Csub

Have a chamomile tea, OP.

Yes, Stam builds need buffing and they said they are working on it and we already got some buffs.

khele23eb17_ESO

go0f1 wrote: »

I running a stamina build for 2 days and lost 10% 1v1 duells and won 80% of 1v2 duells. So stamina build is viable.

Trolololo...

lordrichter wrote: »

I think it is cool that they are working on bringing Stamina up, but players need to realize that this is a game of magic. While Stamina might be improved, this game is a game of magic.

This game is a game of crappy balancing...

Zheg

go0f1 wrote: »

I running a stamina build for 2 days and lost 10% 1v1 duells and won 80% of 1v2 duells. So stamina build is viable.

Stamina can work in pvp, but it's still not as good as the majority of magicka builds. PVP is actually more forgiving than trials because you have the chance to burst people down with sneak attacks (if you get the opening).

Try that build in trials and still be able to hit the 'minimum' dps needed to complete the dps checks though, and you'll change your tune.

The OP is definitely a bit hysterical, but these were problems that existed in beta and still have gone largely unchecked. There's plenty of content to keep people occupied, they really need to just spend a solid month and focus on build balance and tweaking mechanics of trials to allow for build diversity.

I've decided to just level alts and pvp during downtime until they fix stamina builds, but now I've got a v12 sorc, v12 nb, and my DK is about to hit the vet ranks. If they don't fix this in 2-3 more months, I'll be out of classes to level.

The fact that these issues have persisted for so long, and the fact that whenever they discuss the issue they insist they want to do small incremental changes so as not to disturb the current 'balance' (which is really just every single build being forced to go magicka, so that point is bogus...), it doesn't give me much hope. I TRULY hope they aren't stupid enough to put more dps checks in the new serpent trial coming out, because that's just going to shoot themselves in the foot (again).

go0f1

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

go0f1 wrote: »

I running a stamina build for 2 days and lost 10% 1v1 duells and won 80% of 1v2 duells. So stamina build is viable.

Trolololo...

Yea i troll everyone who think he can kill me in pvp.

Aenra

TaffyIX wrote: »

Thanks for the ignore function ZOS

he is young, you are not. His actions can be excused, your wanting to tell the world you are ignoring him (rather than just do it) signifies things that may or may not. Be excused

On topic, won't bother with the rage post, but it does raise a significant issue does it not?
When in order to boost your sales, you consciously prop guilds that look at this game differently (theorycrafting, "buildz" and "moar dotz", have them in shows interviewing the developers), is it a wonder that people who also look at MMOs 'differently' will start to flock in?
When you launch as Elder Mages Online with your first content addressing said populace (Crag) while still being Elder Mages Online.. what do you get?

Patience [future balance patches] is not the answer, not to the young

khele23eb17_ESO

go0f1 wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

go0f1 wrote: »

I running a stamina build for 2 days and lost 10% 1v1 duells and won 80% of 1v2 duells. So stamina build is viable.

Trolololo...

Yea i troll everyone who think he can kill me in pvp.

IMO youre trolling everyone who thinks the game doesnt consist of pvp 'duels' exclusively .

Ninnghizhidda

While this may be a "rant" or "angry" thread indeed, it does have a valid point, and basically it is right.

Pretty little has been done and is planned, the stubbornness of making ESO a "mages" game is really hard to understand, and in that department is completely different to the Elder Scrolls legacy (and where it fails).

It is my personal opinion of course, I very well know that many thousands of players are very happy with their dresses and broomsticks, and at times I think Zeni has decided that this is the audience they prefer.

If this is the case, so be it, we shall know very soon, because no one is going to wait for a "few years" to see archetype characters ("warriors") being truly implemented and viable on equal terms.

Maybe they are just happy with the "mages" and the console fans, when they finally release those versions.

go0f1

Zheg wrote: »

go0f1 wrote: »

I running a stamina build for 2 days and lost 10% 1v1 duells and won 80% of 1v2 duells. So stamina build is viable.

Stamina can work in pvp, but it's still not as good as the majority of magicka builds. PVP is actually more forgiving than trials because you have the chance to burst people down with sneak attacks (if you get the opening).

Try that build in trials and still be able to hit the 'minimum' dps needed to complete the dps checks though, and you'll change your tune.

The OP is definitely a bit hysterical, but these were problems that existed in beta and still have gone largely unchecked. There's plenty of content to keep people occupied, they really need to just spend a solid month and focus on build balance and tweaking mechanics of trials to allow for build diversity.

I've decided to just level alts and pvp during downtime until they fix stamina builds, but now I've got a v12 sorc, v12 nb, and my DK is about to hit the vet ranks. If they don't fix this in 2-3 more months, I'll be out of classes to level.

The fact that these issues have persisted for so long, and the fact that whenever they discuss the issue they insist they want to do small incremental changes so as not to disturb the current 'balance' (which is really just every single build being forced to go magicka, so that point is bogus...), it doesn't give me much hope. I TRULY hope they aren't stupid enough to put more dps checks in the new serpent trial coming out, because that's just going to shoot themselves in the foot (again).

I only do pvp not tested in trials. I think in trials i do not enaugh dmg to compete with magicka builds (test is coming), but in pvp i don´t crit my enemy to death, i only do avarage dmg to them and if they don´t have stamina they are dead.

Skafsgaard

Goof, well as a magicka based, light armour templar I would have to disagree. Now before im flamed or what not, i feel its important to say, that I chose this build since I wanted my main to be a group support/healer, so a resto staff and light armour seemed right off the bet coupled with my Altmer. Since then (I started early june) I have no discovered the current meta of the game and also discovered that pve in eso is lol.. I mean time trials? nevertheless, I was also a DAoC player and enjoy big scale warfare. at this moment i dont pve and have only grinded hircine to level to vr12 as quick as possible. It was during my advancement in Veteran Ranks that the reality dawned upon. And while I can sit here feeling pretty lucky? with what I roled, I might as well have rolled a badass 2hander, but previous experience in MMOs have taught me NEVER to make your main a dps, if you wanna do stuff.

On the other hand, I can truly feel with those stam based specs out there - its INSANE nothing more major as been done and there are so many thing favoring magicka users. When it comes to pvp yes, stamina is a very nice stat. I like that my spells doesnt use it and also means (with foodbuff) that I can keep immovable up all times, while having enough stam to break feel or make that critical roll dodge and this is not taking into account the numerous defensive spells a templar has that cost magicka. Now ive tweaked my build into a more 'frontline support' so I cannot be snared, CC or anything and rarely have to roll dodge even, sicne i have class dispels, efficent purge and immovable (not necessarily all on but to say I cannot be snared CC'd and only use stam for immovable which I have regen enough to keep up 100%. I can feel the pain if a break free (yes i dont ALWAYS have immovable) cost me 40% magicka MAN! that would suck... so do you pvper guys revese use and more or less has magicka as a survivability bar`? as I currently consider my stam bar or that if I would sprint/sneak sustained would not be able to use any slotted ability?

Anyways, jsut to say I see the problems and as an 'accidental' dress and stick player I want to be SCARED when I see a melee charging me now its more like oh 800 ap, yes pls

seaef

TaffyIX wrote: »

Thanks for the ignore function ZOS

Yeah, it's great. I just wish I had another open slot, but unfortunately I'm stuck with this one's spew for the time being.

KitLightning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1purLvI2fBI

go0f1

Skafsgaard wrote: »

Goof, well as a magicka based, light armour templar I would have to disagree. Now before im flamed or what not, i feel its important to say, that I chose this build since I wanted my main to be a group support/healer, so a resto staff and light armour seemed right off the bet coupled with my Altmer. Since then (I started early june) I have no discovered the current meta of the game and also discovered that pve in eso is lol.. I mean time trials? nevertheless, I was also a DAoC player and enjoy big scale warfare. at this moment i dont pve and have only grinded hircine to level to vr12 as quick as possible. It was during my advancement in Veteran Ranks that the reality dawned upon. And while I can sit here feeling pretty lucky? with what I roled, I might as well have rolled a badass 2hander, but previous experience in MMOs have taught me NEVER to make your main a dps, if you wanna do stuff.

On the other hand, I can truly feel with those stam based specs out there - its INSANE nothing more major as been done and there are so many thing favoring magicka users. When it comes to pvp yes, stamina is a very nice stat. I like that my spells doesnt use it and also means (with foodbuff) that I can keep immovable up all times, while having enough stam to break feel or make that critical roll dodge and this is not taking into account the numerous defensive spells a templar has that cost magicka. Now ive tweaked my build into a more 'frontline support' so I cannot be snared, CC or anything and rarely have to roll dodge even, sicne i have class dispels, efficent purge and immovable (not necessarily all on but to say I cannot be snared CC'd and only use stam for immovable which I have regen enough to keep up 100%. I can feel the pain if a break free (yes i dont ALWAYS have immovable) cost me 40% magicka MAN! that would suck... so do you pvper guys revese use and more or less has magicka as a survivability bar`? as I currently consider my stam bar or that if I would sprint/sneak sustained would not be able to use any slotted ability?

Anyways, jsut to say I see the problems and as an 'accidental' dress and stick player I want to be SCARED when I see a melee charging me now its more like oh 800 ap, yes pls

Everyone can do whatever he prefers, so i don´t flame someone having a magicka build.
In my opinion stamina builds need no rework after patch 1.3, because they increased weapon power and that is enaugh for me. Main reason for people saying stamina builds are not viable, because they only hit their skills to do damage, but i think the dmg of stamina build is coming from light/heavy attacks.
My heavy attacks hit for 530 noncrit with 2h axe and i think magicka builds hit for the half don´t tested sorry.


edit: I want to say stamina builds are not only hit 1-5 they need much more skill.

Elsonso

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

This game is a game of crappy balancing...

This game is a work in progress, and will continue to be one for the life of the game, that started out as a very magic oriented game and had some very potent magical skills in it.

So, yeah, I am sure that it is unbalanced and the degree that it is unbalanced closely follows player personal preference.

How "crappy" the balance is depends on how able and willing a player is to adapt.

Adapting to the changing balance is part of the game, right now.

Zheg wrote: »

whenever they discuss the issue they insist they want to do small incremental changes so as not to disturb the current 'balance'

I don't think they said that. As a matter of fact, this is what they said in the July Road Ahead:

I’ll take this opportunity to repeat an important point: we make class balance changes very slowly because they can have a big impact on your play experience. We’re making changes carefully, but we are always watching feedback about balance concerns.

The intent of making slow balance changes is not to avoid disturbing the current balance, but because these changes have a big impact.

theyancey

He mad?

Skafsgaard

Yes, I feel actually that a simple flat buff to melee damage would solve must issues and also be in line with what i hear of complain. the melee guys feel that they take extra risk by being close and should there for hit for more and I like this also it would encourage more sword play and less ability spam, maybe?

It simply needs to hurt when you swining that big bad 2hander at someone. about the damage of heavy attacks, well my templar is vr12 but has some pretty crappy gear (atm im focusing on skills i like and will focus on building that legendary set, remeber I started a bit later than most). I know on top of my head that I've had heavy attcks with my destruction staff hit for around 450 as a crit, but also I have range, elemetal damage which procs cool stuff so maybe that gap needs to be further? well, im not sure any of us is qualified for coming with an actual solution (would sort of require a secret tome of game mechanics) but I can only support ults now scaling og highest of weapon/spell damage. This, for my crappy geared templar, is actually a buff since my sets consist of some purple pvp sets and the 3 set dominion 10% spell crit - it means that I have something like 133 weapon power and around 96 spell power (yes, I know I should up this) but at least my ults feel a bit better now

Zheg

I don't think they said that. As a matter of fact, this is what they said in the July Road Ahead:

I’ll take this opportunity to repeat an important point: we make class balance changes very slowly because they can have a big impact on your play experience. We’re making changes carefully, but we are always watching feedback about balance concerns.

The intent of making slow balance changes is not to avoid disturbing the current balance, but because these changes have a big impact.

Errr, right, they're worried about shaking things up, which unfortunately is exactly what they need to do given how long they let the problem fester. The small incremental approach works get when they're honing in on the balance sweet spot, it works horribly when balance is heavily skewed to one side or the other.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Gorthax wrote: »

Thats is all. Game is so horrible bassackwards it is not evem funny. I just cant do it anymore lol been playing since beta round two and i finally reached my breaking point. Game looks beautiful! I loved it early on, now i just despise it. Its STILL a mages game (my main is a mage). And that half ass convrt magicka to stamjna will NOT fix the sh*tty stamina issue, nor will it make stamina builds as good as magicka builds. I just cant do it no more lol i stopped playing my vr12 cuz theres nothing to do.

Started a battle mage. Got him to 45 before i finally got sick of being so much weaker compared go anyone who uses a stick and light armor. No i dont suck at the game, it is not that hard. It is just so *** frustrating. /endrant

I feel your pain to a point, but it doesn't get me to that level of enragement. I can see your heart beat on your neck!

go0f1

Skafsgaard wrote: »

Yes, I feel actually that a simple flat buff to melee damage would solve must issues and also be in line with what i hear of complain. the melee guys feel that they take extra risk by being close and should there for hit for more and I like this also it would encourage more sword play and less ability spam, maybe?

It simply needs to hurt when you swining that big bad 2hander at someone. about the damage of heavy attacks, well my templar is vr12 but has some pretty crappy gear (atm im focusing on skills i like and will focus on building that legendary set, remeber I started a bit later than most). I know on top of my head that I've had heavy attcks with my destruction staff hit for around 450 as a crit, but also I have range, elemetal damage which procs cool stuff so maybe that gap needs to be further? well, im not sure any of us is qualified for coming with an actual solution (would sort of require a secret tome of game mechanics) but I can only support ults now scaling og highest of weapon/spell damage. This, for my crappy geared templar, is actually a buff since my sets consist of some purple pvp sets and the 3 set dominion 10% spell crit - it means that I have something like 133 weapon power and around 96 spell power (yes, I know I should up this) but at least my ults feel a bit better now

I have 203 weapon power (with buff) and 95 spell power and i feel hitting like a truck and if they improve weapon power again maybe 2 trucks^^

madangrypally

Skafsgaard wrote: »

Yes, I feel actually that a simple flat buff to melee damage would solve must issues and also be in line with what i hear of complain. the melee guys feel that they take extra risk by being close and should there for hit for more and I like this also it would encourage more sword play and less ability spam, maybe?

This would not fix stamina builds. IMO its not even about stamina its about how abilities damage scales and the that class abilities scale one way and stamina weapons another.

One reason Staffs are so OP right now is because they scale the same way the class abilities scale.

Another issue is Armor types being more about the type of damage a player does and not about actual damage or damage mitigation.

The two issues above needs to be addressed for stamina (stamina weapons imo) to be fixed.

IE: Make the stamina weapons scale based on either whatever stat is highest or a combination of both stats divided by 2.

Make light armor, medium armor, and heavy armor about damage and damage mitigation and remove type of damage entirely. IE: Remove reduced cost from light and medium armor. Remove spell and physical crit from armor. Add passives that increase damage to light armor and medium armor (not same amount), add reduced damage taken from heavy armor and increase damage taken to light armor. Add other passives that reflect more the properties of armor types like dodge roll, cc break, sprint speed, etc.

khele23eb17_ESO

lordrichter wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

This game is a game of crappy balancing...

This game is a work in progress, and will continue to be one for the life of the game, that started out as a very magic oriented game and had some very potent magical skills in it.

So, yeah, I am sure that it is unbalanced and the degree that it is unbalanced closely follows player personal preference.

How "crappy" the balance is depends on how able and willing a player is to adapt.

Subjectivist fallacy. You might not give a damn about it not being balanced, you might enjoy the imbalance being in favor of your preferred playstyle, you might not notice the imbalance as youre just playing one build and never group or you might be willing to forgo your preferred playstyle in order to get on the more beneficial side of the imbalance... Its still the same imbalance tho, regardless of which side of it youre on or what your opinion of it is. Just like electriciy isnt less real for a person who chooses not to believe it exists because he/she is able and willing to use candles instead.