Battering Rams - Why not ?

MartinXKid

Hey everyone! I hope everyone is having a great day (or night)!
I'd like to learn why on earth i never see anyone one or any group use the Battering Ram? I remember in TESO Beta, we got to use the Battering Ram. Since then, I haven't seen a single Ram. Is it because the flaming Oil does too much damage? Is it because if in a small group killing the NPCs at the gate takes too much time and/or difficult to kill fast enough? The Ram doesn't destroy the door quick enough that NPCs are respawned?
Why not use the Battering Ram these days?

This is a video I've uploaded when I was in the Beta using the Battering Ram.
*Yes I was and still am a Noob and yes I used Bandicam (so what? *
https://youtube.com/watch?v=5RGb9_ozemM&list=UUr0JKzxgmxV2DBzei0zoWSg

Edit: I also wanted to mention That I always thought Rams being the most cost efficient for the whole group. It only needs one Ram to burst though the doors instead of many Ranged Siege weapons.

Pancake-Tragedy

MartinXKid wrote: »

Hey everyone! I hope everyone is having a great day (or night)!
I'd like to learn why on earth i never see anyone one or any group use the Battering Ram? I remember in TESO Beta, we got to use the Battering Ram. Since then, I haven't seen a single Ram. Is it because the flaming Oil does too much damage? Is it because if in a small group killing the NPCs at the gate takes too much time and/or difficult to kill fast enough? The Ram doesn't destroy the door quick enough that NPCs are respawned?
Why not use the Battering Ram these days?

This is a video I've uploaded when I was in the Beta using the Battering Ram.
*Yes I was and still am a Noob and yes I used Bandicam (so what? *
https://youtube.com/watch?v=5RGb9_ozemM&list=UUr0JKzxgmxV2DBzei0zoWSg

Because if there are defenders inside the keep they can drop oil on the ram, causing everyone on the ram to wipe.

RensDG

Ive seen the ram more then i can count on 2 hands. But it isn't as often as attacking the sides of inner keeps.

Tintinabula

Yea, still people don't realize the benefit of replenishing barrier and siege shield. Those work guyz...they actually work!

MartinXKid

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

MartinXKid wrote: »

Hey everyone! I hope everyone is having a great day (or night)!
I'd like to learn why on earth i never see anyone one or any group use the Battering Ram? I remember in TESO Beta, we got to use the Battering Ram. Since then, I haven't seen a single Ram. Is it because the flaming Oil does too much damage? Is it because if in a small group killing the NPCs at the gate takes too much time and/or difficult to kill fast enough? The Ram doesn't destroy the door quick enough that NPCs are respawned?
Why not use the Battering Ram these days?

This is a video I've uploaded when I was in the Beta using the Battering Ram.
*Yes I was and still am a Noob and yes I used Bandicam (so what? *
https://youtube.com/watch?v=5RGb9_ozemM&list=UUr0JKzxgmxV2DBzei0zoWSg

Because if there are defenders inside the keep they can drop oil on the ram, causing everyone on the ram to wipe.

So Flamming Oil is too effective?

Pancake-Tragedy

MartinXKid wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

MartinXKid wrote: »

Hey everyone! I hope everyone is having a great day (or night)!
I'd like to learn why on earth i never see anyone one or any group use the Battering Ram? I remember in TESO Beta, we got to use the Battering Ram. Since then, I haven't seen a single Ram. Is it because the flaming Oil does too much damage? Is it because if in a small group killing the NPCs at the gate takes too much time and/or difficult to kill fast enough? The Ram doesn't destroy the door quick enough that NPCs are respawned?
Why not use the Battering Ram these days?

This is a video I've uploaded when I was in the Beta using the Battering Ram.
*Yes I was and still am a Noob and yes I used Bandicam (so what? *
https://youtube.com/watch?v=5RGb9_ozemM&list=UUr0JKzxgmxV2DBzei0zoWSg

Because if there are defenders inside the keep they can drop oil on the ram, causing everyone on the ram to wipe.

So Flamming Oil is too effective?

Too effective? Maybe. But if you read the description of flaming oil, it states that it is effective versus battering rams and players.

MartinXKid

Tintinabula wrote: »

Yea, still people don't realize the benefit of replenishing barrier and siege shield. Those work guyz...they actually work!

So why isn't the Ram being used these days?
Is if faster/safer to get in the keep with Ranged Siege weapons^

Pancake-Tragedy

Also keep in mind martin, part of the reason for sieging the posterns is going straight up the stairs to wipe any defenders inside.

MartinXKid

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

MartinXKid wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

MartinXKid wrote: »

Hey everyone! I hope everyone is having a great day (or night)!
I'd like to learn why on earth i never see anyone one or any group use the Battering Ram? I remember in TESO Beta, we got to use the Battering Ram. Since then, I haven't seen a single Ram. Is it because the flaming Oil does too much damage? Is it because if in a small group killing the NPCs at the gate takes too much time and/or difficult to kill fast enough? The Ram doesn't destroy the door quick enough that NPCs are respawned?
Why not use the Battering Ram these days?

This is a video I've uploaded when I was in the Beta using the Battering Ram.
*Yes I was and still am a Noob and yes I used Bandicam (so what? *
https://youtube.com/watch?v=5RGb9_ozemM&list=UUr0JKzxgmxV2DBzei0zoWSg

Because if there are defenders inside the keep they can drop oil on the ram, causing everyone on the ram to wipe.

So Flamming Oil is too effective?

Too effective? Maybe. But if you read the description of flaming oil, it states that it is effective versus battering rams and players.

Yeah I know but as Tintinnabula says, the Shield Weapon Shield Spell counters it. It saves us from it's damage.

Krinaman

Mostly due to keep design. Rams on the front door get rained on with oil. Sure you might be able to heal through it but 6 people on ram equals 6 people on ballista's on the postern. Also the postern is mostly defenseless because who ever built these keeps never thought to build the walls wide enough to put siege down.

Rylana

I personally like to use rams on postern doors.

Works good.

Tintinabula

I agree with the theory about the keep designs. All inner keeps( with the exception of home/ gate keeps/castles) are made like an outpost and even the home keeps are designed so that if you run through the front door you can be oiled on top of all the way through at every flag. In the larger keeps/castles the side doors have space where a team can make headway and stage offensives into the keep without having to be constantly shielded.

Kiljaz

Front door vs a good defending group will almost always fail, even with shield and barrier. Drop 4 oils at once and have 1 sorc pop out front door and negate and it's gg.

Nox_Aeterna

Oil is really strong to my char because of the vamp weakness , if i get hit the amount of damage is ... ridiculous. So i really cant affort to get hit by it.

Mind you im not saying it bad , just saying using the ram is very dangerous.

Turelus

We often use rams to ninja take keeps/outpost when we know there are no defenders but when someone is inside it's just not worth the hassle of front gate.
Even with a max level siege shield the ram takes so much damage from the numbers of oils it falls apart fast, and it burns magicka from healers to keep purge/heals up.

kevlarto_ESO

Rams about the fastest way through the door, healers purging, healing and a dome keeps the oil pots in check to some degree, have seen them bust through the main door straight to the inner keep door in a just a matter of a few minutes, but it does take a degree of team work,

Traveller

Seen the ram used a lot in the non-vet game, seem to break the door quick. However even with shield and healers our health was low that the locals not keen on a visit came out and quickly saw us of. Great to see in action, especial when it's on fire.

xbalint.vargaxprb19_ESO

we regulary use rams when we sneakattack a keep (no resources, straight to maindoor). we can be inside in a minute.
so ram is very effective, but usable only if they dont suspect anything

Halrloprillalar

MartinXKid wrote: »

Hey everyone! I hope everyone is having a great day (or night)!
I'd like to learn why on earth i never see anyone one or any group use the Battering Ram? I remember in TESO Beta, we got to use the Battering Ram. Since then, I haven't seen a single Ram. Is it because the flaming Oil does too much damage? Is it because if in a small group killing the NPCs at the gate takes too much time and/or difficult to kill fast enough? The Ram doesn't destroy the door quick enough that NPCs are respawned?
Why not use the Battering Ram these days?

This is a video I've uploaded when I was in the Beta using the Battering Ram.
*Yes I was and still am a Noob and yes I used Bandicam (so what? *
https://youtube.com/watch?v=5RGb9_ozemM&list=UUr0JKzxgmxV2DBzei0zoWSg

Edit: I also wanted to mention That I always thought Rams being the most cost efficient for the whole group. It only needs one Ram to burst though the doors instead of many Ranged Siege weapons.

Three main reasons you don't see rams often vs. defended keeps:

1) Oil. Enough said.

2) Repairing the door takes far less time than a wall, and it's a more dangerous choke point.

3) Guard respawns affecting re-entry.

MartinXKid

So as I am seeing from all of your posts, the Battering Ram should be able to take down the door more quickly then the walls?
And keep guards should respawn after a longer time so it doesn't affect re-entry?

I would think that the danger (Flaming oil being very damaging and dangerous) would come at the reward of a faster break in.

pitdemon_ESO

MartinXKid wrote: »

So as I am seeing from all of your posts, the Battering Ram should be able to take down the door more quickly then the walls?
And keep guards should respawn after a longer time so it doesn't affect re-entry?

I would think that the danger (Flaming oil being very damaging and dangerous) would come at the reward of a faster break in.

That's pretty much it.

The more defenders a location has, the less feasible using a ram becomes.

Renuo

Part of the issue is walls are not very strong so throwing rocks is easier and less likely to fail.

Truly believe they need to increase wall hp significantly.

SeltzerDuke

In my experience in the early days of pvp, it was all about the rams. Part of the rationale was that if you ignored the walls, there's no need to cap the mine to weaken their hp and so it saved time. It was also a quick way to get inside the outer walls before defenders could show up, and once they did you probably already have the inner keep door down almost as well. I think the main reason they got abandoned is that the NPCs got buffed to V5, archers were added, and so forth - suddenly bursting into where they were most heavily concentrated was no longer that smart. Better to go through the side to rush up the stairs and take out the archers before worrying about the flags. Also back then, oil wasn't as commonly stocked so you might get a few pours from above but not like now where everybody keeps a dozen in their pocket to pull out even in open battle in a field, so now half a dozen can get set up above you and make life very difficult.

driosketch

Ram cost the same as the more expensive siege.
They can't be used in multiple situations to attack and defend.
They aren't flexible in their placement, making them easy to defend against.
They take a coordinated effort of six+ players.
Most players are stocked to repair walls not doors after the keep is taken.

Basically rams are very situational, and no where near as cost effective as the various types of siege weapons.

Good if you want to switch things up, but you need to plan for it. In the normal course of PvP you can usually count on random players to at least bring some fire siege. Repair kits suffer a similar problem in that it's usually cheaper and easier to buy and redeploy more siege weapons.

Artemiisia

need 6 people on battering rams, that could had been on Ballistas that shoots 2k damage each thats 12k of damage from range and safer as well

IxSTALKERxI

It's because 75% of people are vampires.

Cody

Oil. even if someone uses purge and siege shield and constant heals, the ram will still take a good amount of damage, and wont last long enough to have much of an impact. They should look for a way to make rams resistant to oil, as of now, oil renders it not worth the risk.