Building Murkmire - ZOS Needs to Learn the Lessons from Craglorn

LonePirate

Given how ZOS is currently building its next adventure zone (Murkmire), I hope it has learned its lessons from Craglorn. I venture into Craglorn a few times a week to run four circuits where I gather alchemy and other crafting mats and I open chests for the easy gold and loot to sell. Craglorn is a much different place today than it was when it first opened almost three months ago. I hope ZOS has been paying attention and is keeping these things in mind while they construct the next adventure zone, Murkmire, which seems like it will arrive in Q1

When Craglorn first opened, people visited it primarily for three reasons: 1) Trials, 2) explore the new zone as a solo player and 3) grind up to the new VR12 level. Nowadays, Craglorn serves one purpose above all others: Trials. People do not go to Craglorn for the group quests and group delves. Very few people go there for level grinding now based on how infrequently I see grinding groups or LFG/LFM zone chat messages during my mat gathering sessions there. In essence, apart from Trials, the zone is a failure (and that's even before dissecting Trials).

Here is what I think ZOS needs to do with Murkmire to prevent it from becoming the same virtual ghost town that almost all of Craglorn is now.

1. Implement at least 2-3 very tough trials to give those players more content. If the ZOS test teams can complete a trial in less than 20 minutes real world time, then the difficulty needs to be doubled at a minimum. This content needs to be the most difficult PVE content in the entire game bar none.
2. Include at least 2 traditional Undaunted dungeons for groups of 4. These need to be promoted as actual dungeons like you have done with Crypt of Hearts and City if Ash. Smaller groups need new content, too.
3. Include at least two grind locations. People like to randomly gather and grind for XP/VP and loot, even if they do so much less nowadays than at the start of Craglorn's release.
4. Make all quests repeatable and make them soloable except for the ones associated with Trials and the Undaunted dungeons. Like it or not, it is the solo/duo players that keep a zone alive in all regards.
5. Make all delves soloable and include at least 6-10 of them. Each one should have a quest inside them along with at least 2-3 bosses like the Cyrodiil delves have. Each delve should be designed for 20-30 minutes of game play. Configuring one delve with numerous bosses and enough mobs to require an hour or more to clear (like Shada's Tear) would be ideal.
6. Make the zone beautiful and give it an interesting story. Craglorn's story is moderately interesting but it is a visually bland and unappealing zone.
7. Make it fun, something Craglorn has never been.
8. Include dark anchors and world bosses like those in the regular zones as they would make for some familiar but challenging content.
9. Give us something new and surprising we have not see so far, perhaps something like the group puzzle challenge in the Alik'r Desert's public dungeon.
10. Be very generous with the placement of chests, Skyshards and all six types of crafting mats (seven with spellcrafting?). More is always better.

There may be other things to consider but this list, especially the first five, are the most important to keeping the new Murkmire zone vibrant and worth playing.

James-Wayne

I just want them to open it up to all alliances so I can group with people I know instead of playing solo for everything. There is no reason why these outside zones can't be considered nor here or there in the alliance war... even in real life we have areas that really don't want to be apart of the war effort and are happy to chat to their buddy from the shops across the border when they meet.

Lets really open up this world as one big instance... or perhaps the megaserver isn't good enough!

GwaynLoki

James-Wayne wrote: »

I just want them to open it up to all alliances so I can group with people I know instead of playing solo for everything. There is no reason why these outside zones can't be considered nor here or there in the alliance war... even in real life we have areas that really don't want to be apart of the war effort and are happy to chat to their buddy from the shops across the border when they meet.

Lets really open up this world as one big instance... or perhaps the megaserver isn't good enough!

Even more so since everyone is running through every factions main story line/areas anyways.

nerevarine1138

James-Wayne wrote: »

I just want them to open it up to all alliances so I can group with people I know instead of playing solo for everything. There is no reason why these outside zones can't be considered nor here or there in the alliance war... even in real life we have areas that really don't want to be apart of the war effort and are happy to chat to their buddy from the shops across the border when they meet.

Lets really open up this world as one big instance... or perhaps the megaserver isn't good enough!

I understand wanting to play with people you know, but is there a reason your friends decided to be in different alliances?

The_Sadist

What a well thought out thread and logic thread, well done. I agree with everything you mentioned, take heed ZeniMax!

c0rp

This post is EXACTLY how I would be making an adventure zone. The main quests are SOLOABLE with a handful of dungeons that are meant for solo, small groups, and trial groups. Include a few spots with repeatable grinding content for these people as well.

This whole "4 man questing" zone BS needs to be thrown out the door.

@zos_PaulSage @zos_NickKonkle @zos_MattFiror

James-Wayne

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

I just want them to open it up to all alliances so I can group with people I know instead of playing solo for everything. There is no reason why these outside zones can't be considered nor here or there in the alliance war... even in real life we have areas that really don't want to be apart of the war effort and are happy to chat to their buddy from the shops across the border when they meet.

Lets really open up this world as one big instance... or perhaps the megaserver isn't good enough!

I understand wanting to play with people you know, but is there a reason your friends decided to be in different alliances?

The reason we are playing in different alliances is simply because some people did not pre order the game meaning if they want to play a Dunmer, they are stuck in the Ebonhart Pact. I understand ZOS did this to stop too many people on one faction or perhaps the servers couldn't cope but outside the launch content we should be grouped together. One friend bought on Steam just recently but steam users get treated like everyone else even thou you could never pre-order on steam.

The restrictions in this MMO are splitting groups up, friends up and discourages socialness amongst people we want to play this great game with.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Menelaos

I don't think any new adventure zone should have Dark Anchors, because I'd like the storyline progress as well, and the Planemeld was stopped. Instead, ZOS could implement some grand story of another Daedra/Aedra doing cool or uncool things to the zone that players have to support or oppose.

Apart from that and concerning solo content, didn't ZOS say that Murkmire would be a zone like Craglorn and that they wanted another purely solo-PVE zone after that?

gurluasb16_ESO

I'm for all but 8 as lorewise the Dark Anchor threat is over. Another group activity akin to Dark anchors would be great though.

Draxuul

Ok i admit i didn`t read the entire original post because i haven`t been to Craglorn yet so i`m not here to argue anything Craglorn related .

There is just one thing i`d like to point out . The OP said that the new trials in Mirkmire should be the most difficult PvE thing in the game . I can`t deny that this game is not hard enough.

But considering that this game has a story line and in the story, Molag Bal is the ultimate bad guy and on top of being a bad guy, he`s actually a Daidric Prince and Daidric prince`s are known to have powers which are comparable to those of a god, i think Molag Bal should be the most difficult encounter in the entire game and currently , he`s a real friggin joke.

Not once during my fight against Molag Bal did i even feel like it was possible to fail.
Yeah it took a long time to kill him because he has a lot of HP but the damage he was doing to me was pathetic. I barely ever needed to heal myself , he didn`t even take my HP down to half and i was almost always full of magicka BECAUSE i didn`t need to heal.

I didn`t even need to dodge his damage because his damage was pathetic like i said but i still tried just to make things more interesting. So yeah , maybe Trials need to be harder , i don`t know i haven`t tried them but Molag Bal should be the hardest thing in the game because he`s the ultimate bad guy and he`s a god.

And the fact that some of the world bosses who are NOT gods are harder to kill than he is simply isn`t making any sense.

I`m sorry OP if this looks like a thread highjacking. It wasn`t my intention.

So yeah , i agree with the OP for one thing , this game needs an increase in the challenge departement .

And to make things clear , i`m not asking for any of the game`s content to become easier than Molag Bal, i`m asking for Molag Bal to become harder , Make it possible to actually fail because right now if someone fails against Molag Bal, there is definatly something wrong with that person, no offence. Even Mannimarco should be made harder .

It just doesn`t make sense that the 2 major bad guys in the game are easier than pretty much everything else.

Draxuul

TheAmu

Draxuul wrote: »

There is just one thing i`d like to point out . The OP said that the new trials in Mirkmire should be the most difficult PvE thing in the game . I can`t deny that this game is not hard enough.

But considering that this game has a story line and in the story, Molag Bal is the ultimate bad guy and on top of being a bad guy, he`s actually a Daidric Prince and Daidric prince`s are known to have powers which are comparable to those of a god, i think Molag Bal should be the most difficult encounter in the entire game and currently , he`s a real friggin joke.

Draxuul

There's one thing I'd like to point out.

You had help from Meridia. Also a Daedric Prince.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

100% agree. But why wait for Murmire? Why not ask that all the general repeatable quests in craglorn and upper crag become soloable?

It is clear by now that apart from the small trial minority of players Craglorn is a complete failure and upper C will only make it worse because the majority of players has no way to get to v14 now.

TehMagnus

What this game needs is 12 and 24 people raids that take more than 15 minutes to complete. 1h would be nice.

TehMagnus

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

It is clear by now that apart from the small trial minority of players Craglorn is a complete failure and upper C will only make it worse because the majority of players has no way to get to v14 now.

Last guy who made this assumption and made a post out of it in this forums yesterday got laughed at. Only the minority of pure single players think Craglorn is a failure.

Just because you're hoping to find TES 6 here and are mad it's not the case, doesn't mean the game is a failure to the 90% of the players who are enjoying it .

bertenburnyb16_ESO

Yes I to hope that Murkmire will become a solo zone, because questing in Crag is next to impossible with almost no people doing it, and if you find a group, you hit the wall because they're on another part of the quest, or you cant share quests,... its a total mess
So some trails, and even if the map doesnt have 4man dung, the delves can be 4man content for my part, and though worldbosses that really require multiple people, but plz, for the love of the eight, make the overal map and questing solo!!
I wonder how upper crag will turn out, but I fear it will be the same as the current, only for trails (+arena), grind, and maybe if your lucke a quest here and there

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

magnusnet wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

It is clear by now that apart from the small trial minority of players Craglorn is a complete failure and upper C will only make it worse because the majority of players has no way to get to v14 now.

Last guy who made this assumption and made a post out of it in this forums yesterday got laughed at. Only the minority of pure single players think Craglorn is a failure.

Just because you're hoping to find TES 6 here and are mad it's not the case, doesn't mean the game is a failure to the 90% of the players who are enjoying it .

I said craglorn is a failure to the majority of players. Not the game in general.

If content require you to stand around waiting for more than a few minutes then in this time and day it means that a very large segment of gamers wont use it.

Faulgor

So I'm the only one that likes Craglorn?

If anything I'd like to see the repeatability of the group delves improved, but that is true of all delves in ESO. Otherwise they are great. Please don't make them soloable, we are lacking group content anyway.

So, I guess I disagree with 4, 5, 6 and 7.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

Faulgor wrote: »

So I'm the only one that likes Craglorn?

If anything I'd like to see the repeatability of the group delves improved, but that is true of all delves in ESO. Otherwise they are great. Please don't make them soloable, we are lacking group content anyway.

So, I guess I disagree with 4, 5, 6 and 7.

There is nothing wrong with a zone like Craglorn... IF you had other options.

Craglorn itself weren't that bad for the solo player since veteran content and a few runs of Cyrodiil could get you to V12 solo. But now they add in 2 more veteran levels, all the solo content is used up and the reduction in pvp campaigns has also closed that area for solo leveling.

So it is only now that is becomes a real problem.

LonePirate

Some people amuse me with their sense of entitlement around here. I recommended adding more trials and more Undaunted dungeons (the true group content which all sorts of players enjoy) in exchange for making the quests and delves all solo/duo friendly (the Craglorn group content which almost nobody plays and even fewer people enjoy).

These changes would benefit every single PVE player in the game but we have folks around here up in arms and hysterically clinging to their outdated definition of what an MMO is while they delude themselves with fantastical lies of the Craglorn quests and delves being popular and frequently played.

I guess that speaks highly of this game's immersive environment given how those people are so detached from reality.

James-Wayne

Craglorn is a failure to me because the majority of people just want to grind locations. Correct me if I'm wrong but Craglorn was designed for GROUP PvE content not GRIND Mob content. Whenever I go to Craglorn the only thing I can do is GRIND with a group or run TRIALS because that is the only thing groups want to do in Craglorn, I've never seen anyone asking to group for PvE. I'm over the current TRIALS and would really love to GROUP for the PvE stuff.

Having said that GRIND only exists because of the lack of systems in place for people to GROUP. Solve the grouping system, solve Craglorn. Simples!

NadiusMaximus

Why don't people see adventure zones as giant group delves, with quests in them and more group delves. That is what they are after all. Group zone.

I like hearing some of my friends that have moaned and groaned for a Elder Scrolls game to be Co op for ever and now they have it and they gripe they can't solo.