Is anyone else as worried about spellcrafting as I am?

jrgray93

I don't intend this to be one of those stupid threads where people complain about systems that haven't even been implemented or explained in detail yet. I'm not going to knock it until I try it, but I haven't seen a single other person who shared these reservations. I'm operating on complete conjecture here, so we'll just have to wait and see.

On one hand, I am really excited about the possibilities for spellcrafting to fill in gaps left by classes and provide cool new ability combinations. It really plays into the "play how you want" mantra. On the other hand, I think it has potential to be a complete disaster without the proper limitations. Here's why.

- How will I know what's going on? If everyone has custom spells, it's a lot harder to "know your enemy," so to speak. This might introduce some flavor to PVP encounters, but it could also trivialize the act of adapting to hard counter certain builds. Learning to counter other builds is something I find entertaining, and I'm sure a lot of people agree. With tons of random spells in the mix, it could be like turning rock-paper-scissors into absolute chaos. I must admit this sounds less like a negative change than an interesting one, but we'll have to see how that pans out, because of the potential for...
- Introducing even more min/max situations by providing players with exactly what they want. It could just be a matter of time before somebody comes up with some ludicrous combination of spells that creates even more of a cookie cutter situation than currently exists with build setups. With customized spells, balancing could be a nightmare. But lastly...
- Trivializing existing class abilities. I suppose there will be mechanics and such reserved to class skills, but the more straight-forward ones might cease to be useful, depending on how the class system is implemented. If that is the case, I might not bother even putting many skill points into active abilities (will spell crafting cost skill points? Probably. At least I'd think so). But hey, some people don't like classes existing in this game at all, so maybe that will be a good thing.

Like I said, some things that I'm cautiously waiting for more info on. Not trying to be a fearmonger. It is also worth noting that my knowledge of what is to come begins and ends at the word "spellcrafting," so I'd appreciate the sharing of any announced restrictions or specifics on the matter.

Here's hoping the system will be as cool as it sounds like it might.

Clunan

I see nothing wrong with any of your three points. People who complained about class balance will have to qq when people are able to create their own class thru spellcrafting. Pvp should be a mass chaos, rock/paper/scissors is for noobs. Also, min/maxing sounds both extremely rewarding and painful with this upcomming system. Gonna love it

jrgray93

I just read a bit more into it and it sounds like there will be a bit more limitations in place than I imagined, but it isn't specific enough yet for me to say how it will work out. Still cautious.

madangrypally

jrgray93 wrote: »

- Trivializing existing class abilities. I suppose there will be mechanics and such reserved to class skills, but the more straight-forward ones might cease to be useful, depending on how the class system is implemented. If that is the case, I might not bother even putting many skill points into active abilities (will spell crafting cost skill points? Probably. At least I'd think so). But hey, some people don't like classes existing in this game at all, so maybe that will be a good thing.

I think trivializing existing class abilities will be a good thing and make the game overall more balanced, since more abilities will be available to all.

Azzuria

Basically, with Spellcrafting you'll see a lot of people scurrying hither and yon, searching for all the fragments that make up a spell and then selling spells.

With Spellcrafting, a well-heeled or veteran player can roll up an alt and essentially create their own class, a la Skyrim. Bound armor and weapons, summoned pets, illusion and destructions spells, even restoration spells. Whole new 'classes' will be born and the chaos that ensues will be glorious!

Nox_Aeterna

jrgray93 wrote: »

- How will I know what's going on? If everyone has custom spells, it's a lot harder to "know your enemy," so to speak. This might introduce some flavor to PVP encounters, but it could also trivialize the act of adapting to hard counter certain builds. Learning to counter other builds is something I find entertaining, and I'm sure a lot of people agree. With tons of random spells in the mix, it could be like turning rock-paper-scissors into absolute chaos. I must admit this sounds less like a negative change than an interesting one, but we'll have to see how that pans out, because of the potential for...

Dunno , this we could only wait and see. Personally i believe we will see something close to alchemy , you get a scroll ,learn a power you can combo with some others and form spell X and so on.

jrgray93 wrote: »

- Introducing even more min/max situations by providing players with exactly what they want. It could just be a matter of time before somebody comes up with some ludicrous combination of spells that creates even more of a cookie cutter situation than currently exists with build setups. With customized spells, balancing could be a nightmare. But lastly...

This is already how the game work right now and probably how it will keep working , no reason to stop them from adding new things because of it , clearly they cant balance it either way , might as well have new things.

jrgray93 wrote: »

- Trivializing existing class abilities. I suppose there will be mechanics and such reserved to class skills, but the more straight-forward ones might cease to be useful, depending on how the class system is implemented. If that is the case, I might not bother even putting many skill points into active abilities (will spell crafting cost skill points? Probably. At least I'd think so). But hey, some people don't like classes existing in this game at all, so maybe that will be a good thing.

I hope so if there is one thing i hate in this game, is the fact that we have to deal with classes that actually limit out chars in a TES game.

Aeratus

I'm worried too, not because it's not exciting, but because I'm not confident that ZOS will balance it properly, considering that it's been 4 months since launch and magicka/stamina still isn't balanced.

Custom spells were OP in TES: Oblivion. You could create a spell powerful enough to even knock out Sheogorath.

TheBull

Pulsar/Ring spam will still reign supreme, DKs will still have Dragons Blood, and Sorcerers will still be playing Power Rangers Online...

Not much will change.

Anastasia

Azzuria wrote: »

Basically, with Spellcrafting you'll see a lot of people scurrying hither and yon, searching for all the fragments that make up a spell and then selling spells.

With Spellcrafting, a well-heeled or veteran player can roll up an alt and essentially create their own class, a la Skyrim. Bound armor and weapons, summoned pets, illusion and destructions spells, even restoration spells. Whole new 'classes' will be born and the chaos that ensues will be glorious!

---

Come on now - o-0 you REALLY think this ZOS, the one which right now still has not figured out Stam regen and/or basic balance for the base classes which are currently limited to four-ish....

Ya think the same sort of fantastical broad powers for Spell Crafting in available in single player games is getting ported in to this MMO?????!

It will be fun, but highly doubt it wil be more than 'flavor' whether or not players want more or less. We shall see!

butterfly442

jrgray93 wrote: »

I don't intend this to be one of those stupid threads where people complain about systems that haven't even been implemented or explained in detail yet.

You do realize this is the internet. Right?

Or, you hit your head recently and need to see a doctor, stat.

jrgray93

butterfly442 wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

I don't intend this to be one of those stupid threads where people complain about systems that haven't even been implemented or explained in detail yet.

You do realize this is the internet. Right?

Or, you hit your head recently and need to see a doctor, stat.

And yet it has been very civilized so far. I was stressing my own intentions for my post; not presuming to tell other people how to respond. Perhaps my wording wasn't clear enough.

Phantax

Azzuria wrote: »

Basically, with Spellcrafting you'll see a lot of people scurrying hither and yon, searching for all the fragments that make up a spell and then selling spells.

With Spellcrafting, a well-heeled or veteran player can roll up an alt and essentially create their own class, a la Skyrim. Bound armor and weapons, summoned pets, illusion and destructions spells, even restoration spells. Whole new 'classes' will be born and the chaos that ensues will be glorious!

Hell yeah, It's gonna be a hoot !
Personally I hope Zenimax DON'T put too many restrictions on it !

butterfly442

I see spellcrafting this way...

OP combinations will be found.

Nerfed.

Found.

Nerfed.

Endless loading screen style.

Zero faith in what Zos can fix, let alone create.

Baphomet

I'm terrified - look how they implemented vampirism initially.

traigusb14_ESO2

Yeah there are going to be a large number of variables, making it hard to know exactly what someone is casting.

I was interested to see in an audio interview that the number of spells learn-able will be capped.

So with your destruction leveled to 50-, you will only be able to memorize X (they didn't say number) Destruction skills. If you want to learn all 6 versions of lightning bolt, great.. but you won't be able to learn all 6 from all lets say (made up number) 10 destruction spells (60 variants)...

In addition, tablet quality creates another version. Cheap/low damage crap component one and Super high quality rare component, high damage high cost one are 2 different versions to memorize...

Assuming there are 5 qualities like everything else (white,green,blue,purple, yellow)... (and 10 destruction spells, with 6 variants each) that makes 300 (60 * 5) possible destruction spells based on material quality, and special modifier (350 if you can craft base spell with no modifier (AOE, Ultimate etc.) at all as a 7th option).

Even if you could memorize 50 destruction spells at level 50 destruction, you would have to pick and choose what you wanted to be able to do (note: gold level high damage high cost legendary spell may not be what you want every time... say for an ultimate you can only use once every 10 fights, and would be overkill on anything except a dungeon boss... you may want a cheaper version to use for every day stuff.. now you have just used 2 slots...))

That's just 1 school... it may even have more than 10 spells in it.. Nobody knows yet.

OrangeTheCat

I am quite worried about it. Yes, I know next to nothing as to how it will actually be implemented. But given the balance issues that persist to this day and the whopping imbalance that was introduced with the initial drop of the vampire skill line, I fully expect there to be massive imbalances when spellcrafting hits.

Xiroku

Worried, yet curious.

They shown a few skills obtainable, would like to see what else is there.




What worries me more is how the champion system, Undaunted overhaul, and Spellcrafting as a whole is going to effect magicka/stamina balance.

REiiGN15

I really hope it does trivialize the classes. For one, in ES games...you can skill into whatever. While you sort of have that and race being the only limitation that no ES game has escaped(mind you not a big deal).

Today, I can screw with people in PvP with my freakin' potions. They get a DK Tank coming out of stealth and not vamp completely owning them and they don't know what the hell happened. ALCHEMY. You let me contort spells too...it's freakin' go time.

jrgray93

On one hand, I agree that classes aren't necessarily a good thing in the ES series. On the other hand, I see them as something of a good guiding step that a lot of players need to at least get started. So if good spell crafting does indeed push classes out a bit more, I can see that possibly being great. So early game, you have a class identity but it matters less in the end-game, after you've mastered the ins and outs of the game, and at that point you can forge your own identity. I like looking at it that way.

Like I said, I'm not entirely pessimistic here. I'm trying to look at the possibilities from every angle.

Chubbaz

YES! Once againn Sorceror's are given EVEN MORE TOOLS to muck around and troll people with, The Elder Sorceror Online is fast approaching.

Nox_Aeterna

Chubbaz wrote: »

YES! Once againn Sorceror's are given EVEN MORE TOOLS to muck around and troll people with, The Elder Sorceror Online is fast approaching.

Well , true enough , being a templar i have to say that my passives are probably much worse when compared to the sorcs in this situation.

Michael.LaMagdelaineub17_ESO

I like the idea of spellcrafting. I'm not a templar, so the first thing I want is a healing spell that works off of my spell power instead of my weapon damage. I think they should come out with something so you can make stamina based abilities too.

jrgray93

Michael.LaMagdelaineub17_ESO wrote: »

I like the idea of spellcrafting. I'm not a templar, so the first thing I want is a healing spell that works off of my spell power instead of my weapon damage. I think they should come out with something so you can make stamina based abilities too.

Well, they evidently intend to let you convert magicka to stamina, which I somewhat do not like the idea of, because it is an indirect fix to stamina builds that requires the use of a skill slot.

On the subject of Templars, I'm hoping I can craft some efficient spells or something to aid in magicka regeneration! I do just fine in most situations, but you have to be much more careful not to OOM on a Templar healer vs other classes. Except perhaps a DK.

Azzuria

Spellcrafting will be a huge shake-up. Classes and builds will have to be reworked and I, for one, am excited about it. My NB archer will probably end up getting a summoned pet because... reason!

Vizier

Whatever happens it's going to be interesting and certainly something different. I'm looking forward to the new dynamic.

My hope is ZoS had this up their sleeves the whole time with intent on balancing some things out.

Elad13

Don't worry you will spend at least $60 more dollars before you find out.

jelliedsoup

I'm not worried, I will be pleasantly surprised IF it doesn't boost magicka's dominance over stam builds.

I think if you have enough magicka you can convert your magicka to stamina.

Inversus

I'm hoping for scenario #1 where there are a fair few different ways to reach a decent DPS, and class issues are balanced out

I'm worried about scenario #2 where a certain mix of spells is needed for the best DPS - or even worse, class issues get even worse due to created spells synergising even better with certain classes

reggielee

meh, not really worried, more blase about the whole thing. I expect that there will a whole slew of unexpected balance issues that will take time to sort out.

MSG1000

On the subject of spells that convert Magicka to Stamina perhaps they could be combo spells that actively or passively (by being on your skill bar) give buffs to your weapon based skills.

zaxthegreyb14_ESO

I think the OP is right to be concerned.

In previous ES games, creating custom spells and magic items basically made the games so easy they became boring.

In ESO there remain a number of key balancing and general game play issues to iron out.

For example, the current inventory system is so broken that many serious players use alts and mules as a standard part of game play. Key UI elements are missing and many players rely on add-ons for key functionality.

One of the things that makes an MMO viable is that it's fun for everyone - the hard core gamer with plenty of time on their hands and the casual player. I get the feeling that casual players are becoming frustrated and starting to drift away from this game. If that's true, it's bad for everyone.

For my part, I'd rather see some of the core usability issues fixed before throwing an entirely new set of variables into the mix.