Make Enchanting Rewarding but Accessible

jrgray93

No matter your opinion on the level progression of enchanting vs other professions, it is an undeniable fact that enchanting does not reward you for long-term investments in the craft, so much as it just lets you keep up.

BS / WW / CL are easily kept up with your character level but you can't just craft anything you want right off the bat. It requires research for traits /sets and learning new motifs. If you put forth the effort, you can at least make something useful, if not something well refined that only dedicated players can craft.

When it comes to enchanting, you can make anything so long as you have the right skill level / skill points spent. It is also much more difficult to keep the craft concurrent with your character level. My friends who play less than me can't even make glyphs for their characters because they out leveled their enchanting, not for lack of trying.

I personally do not like how difficult it is to level enchanting. You either spend a fortune, spend hours upon hours looking for people to level it with, or you make an alt and swap glyphs. None of these seem reasonable to me just to be able to make a basic glyph of my level. That said, I do believe those who put forth that much effort on their craft should be rewarded for their efforts. As it stands, it is an all-or-nothing situation where leveling experiences are so different from person to person that some people find it reasonable and others find it absolutely absurd.

I'm not sure exactly how to address the problem, but long-term enchanters should be seeing more benefits, while casual levelers should be able to at least make basic glyphs for themselves. On top of that, expensive, crafted glyphs should be more than just marginally better than the garbage from the vendors.

---

If I had to throw out a suggestion, I'd say make enchanting level faster but add some sort of research function. Expand the usefulness of rare glyphs and make glyphs work more like soul gems, in that low level ones can still be applied to high level gear, but they still just suck. That makes it an "at least it's something" situation.

Like, say, everyone can make any enchant with Ta by default so long as they have the points spent in potency. A research tab could give you a means of learning to make that enchant with better aspect runes. Say it requires an item enchanted with any level of that particular enchant, like a ring with fire resist, as well as an aspect rune of the level you are researching. So the first time would be a fire resist ring and a Jejota. In a few hours, you'll be able to make green fire resist ring glyphs.

Remove the skill points for aspect improvement and instead add in research time / quantity boosters like other professions have.

So a quick recap:
- Make enchanting level faster so that everyone can have basic enchanting benefits
- Make a research system to draw the line between dedication and just leveling it up
- Make rarer aspects provide greater benefits, rewarding players for their researching efforts

I'd say everyone would win if a change addressed these issues, if not necessarily exactly what I said. A good craft should be accessible to everyone but the best benefits should be rewarded only to the dedicated. As it stands, casual players are left in the dust and dedicated players get a crappy reward.

Also, for those who already dedicated the time and effort to the skill, a change like this should come with a head start. Say, level 30-39, all research starts at Jejota level, and 40+, it all starts at Denata level.

Merlin13KAGL

Far as I know, it's the only one that lets you craft max level gear 10 levels before maxing the skill line, even though 40 takes forever to get to.

Craft a Legendary VR12 glyph and get as many IP's as breaking down a level 40 green? And compared to Provisioning? I was getting almost 20k IP's for making a bowl of soup towards the end, vs 6k for VR9 blue glyph decons.

I'd also like to be able to give my Hireling some direction. I can craft VR12, but am in need of VR1 runes.

And I want enchantment credit, dang it. Make a chestplate and your name is forever emblazoned on it.

Enchant it to make it even better, and your name is nowhere to be found!?

Aeratus

I think you're exaggerating the amount of money it takes to buy the materials needed to get to level 40 enchant. You can buy white glyphs for around 100-125g from other players (but don't buy the vendor ones, since they have drastically reduced decon exp).

When I leveled enchanting to 40, which was around June, I think the total material cost to get to level 40 (without farming any glyphs yourself) was 100-120k if you knew where to get the materials. This was not such a great amount considering that you just needed to farm some motifs to pay it off. I only spent around 70k myself because I farmed part of the materials.

Also, making an alt and swap glyphs between alts is by no means a bad idea because having two high level enchanters will bring you a lot of returns from hirelings.

jrgray93

Aeratus wrote: »

I think you're exaggerating the amount of money it takes to buy the materials needed to get to level 40 enchant. You can buy white glyphs for around 100-125g from other players (but don't buy the vendor ones, since they have drastically reduced decon exp).

When I leveled enchanting to 40, which was around June, I think the total material cost to get to level 40 (without farming any glyphs yourself) was 100-120k if you knew where to get the materials. This was not such a great amount considering that you just needed to farm some motifs to pay it off.

Also, making an alt and swap glyphs between alts is by no means a bad idea because having two high level enchanters will bring you a lot of returns from hirelings.

That's not at all the point of my post.

Merlin13KAGL

Aeratus wrote: »

I think you're exaggerating the amount of money it takes to buy the materials needed to get to level 40 enchant. You can buy white glyphs for around 100-125g from other players (but don't buy the vendor ones, since they have drastically reduced decon exp).

When I leveled enchanting to 40, which was around June, I think the total material cost to get to level 40 (without farming any glyphs yourself) was 100-120k if you knew where to get the materials. This was not such a great amount considering that you just needed to farm some motifs to pay it off.

Also, making an alt and swap glyphs between alts is by no means a bad idea because having two high level enchanters will bring you a lot of returns from hirelings.

@Aeratus, not money, IP's (Inspiration Points) - the XP's of the crafting lines.

The Inspiration points you get for crafting a glyph is minor compared with the points you get for decon (especially from another character, as that's the only way to get green or above - yielding about 5x that of a white.)

Compare that to the IP's you get for making a blue recipe (about 15,000 inspiration points, if I recall) and a Purple will net you about 20,000.

6 purple soups and you've gained a level, vs 20 blue VR9 decons, 130 white decons, or 200-300 (or more) created glyphs (green or better).

I never bought glyphs. I made and traded. Recall it took about 80 glyphs to get from 37-40 using VR level runes and green or better. Still find a fair share of whites when questing/grinding, but the return that way is slow and painful.

Aside from the occasional purchase for research or a rare item, you shouldn't be obligated to pay to level any skill in game. That includes having for farm items to convert to gold. The mats and the methods should be reasonable and provided in game.

Provided, they are. Right now, reasonable, they are not.

Agreed on the hirelings, but you still have to obtain the runes to make this happen, whether you're swapping with another person or with an Alternate character.

Nestor

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Agreed on the hirelings, but you still have to obtain the runes to make this happen, whether you're swapping with another person or with an Alternate character.

Don't you get reduced exp from extracting things made with your own account? That's what happens with other crafts.

Bookwyrm

Nestor wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Agreed on the hirelings, but you still have to obtain the runes to make this happen, whether you're swapping with another person or with an Alternate character.

Don't you get reduced exp from extracting things made with your own account? That's what happens with other crafts.

I thought that only applied to each character? Say I craft an item with my Blacksmith and decide to deconstruct it with the same Blacksmith, the experience would be much reduced. But if I take that crafted item and send it to an alt, it's still created by another "character" so I think it should still give the experience boost. I can't vouch for this, though, as I haven't done this myself. I have been considering it, though, particularly with Enchanting. It's an absolute horror to level up. Not impossible, by any means, but certainly an unpleasant grind. Plus it just feels...boring. There's so few "skill line perks" for Enchanters.

Evergnar

I maxed provisioning during early access. Clothing, blacksmithing, woodworking went fairly fast too (can't remember exactly how long, few weeks maybe). I'm still only at lvl 32 enchanting.

And yes, it does feel boring, which is a shame. Has so much potential to be more.

Nestor

Bookwyrm wrote: »

I thought that only applied to each character? Say I craft an item with my Blacksmith and decide to deconstruct it with the same Blacksmith, the experience would be much reduced. But if I take that crafted item and send it to an alt, it's still created by another "character" so I think it should still give the experience boost. I can't vouch for this, though, as I haven't done this myself. ers.

You get a lot less exp if you decon items created by an Alt. You also get less mats back unless you have the Extraction upgrades with the Armor/Weapon crafts.

OrangeTheCat

It is all or nothing. I gave up, meaning all I do now is deconstruct glyphs I find. As a result, I am VR12, all the other crafts are 50 but enchanting is just level 21. I leveled all the other crafts just by deconstructing what I find or, in the case of alchemy and provisioning, making stuff. I did this all on one character.

charley222

i got all crafting level 50
and Enchanting is not so hard
and the glyphs are very good
player become so lazy

ff11 have the most hard crafting , eso is quick and easy just try to be wise

butterfly442

No traits to research. Hence the extended time to level it up.

Duh.

jrgray93

butterfly442 wrote: »

No traits to research. Hence the extended time to level it up.

Duh.

Duh? Excuse me, but you appear to have missed the entire point of everything I said. Extended time to level up (excluding a lot of players from even making the most basic of glyphs for their level) + no meaningful reward for that dedication is the problem.

Bookwyrm

charley222 wrote: »

i got all crafting level 50
and Enchanting is not so hard
and the glyphs are very good
player become so lazy

ff11 have the most hard crafting , eso is quick and easy just try to be wise

I don't think anyone is denying that crafted glyphs are nice (they're better than anything you can pick up, which is a good thing!), and no one is saying Enchanting is "hard" per se. It's not "hard" to level up craft in the game--just decon everything and you get experience. That's a simple mechanic.

But there's no denying that it's boring. My VR runs around hunting runes to craft with, but crafting glyphs gives a ridiculously small amount of craft experience (inspiration points?) in return. Unless you're using an appropriately "high level" potency and aspect rune. Basically, crafting a basic glyph (using a Ta rune stone) is absolutely pointless, because the inspiration point gain is practically nil. I understand that they're basic glyphs, and that they should give less experience than the more "advanced" glyphs, but goodness gracious.

I decon all glyphs that my Vet finds, even though they all give a tiny percentage of experience. I also decon glyphs that some of my guildies send me (we trade when we can) or put in the guild bank. In return, I craft every glyph I can (minus using up all my Rekuta/Kuta aspects) and place them in the guild bank for other Enchanting guildies.

I'm still a level 28 Enchanter and I don't see that changing any time soon. Not that I'm not actively trying to level it, but it's just very slow and there's nothing I can do to improve my leveling unless I find someone to trade glyphs with...That seems a bit silly, since I've been able to level all my crafts without a partner. I haven't maxed them out, yet, but I've maxed Alchemy and Provisioning solo, and I'm nearing 40 on Blacksmithing, Tailoring (Clothier), and Woodworking all on my own with no partner. Why should I need an Enchanting partner?

I think I digressed somewhere...Sorry about that.

je25ffb14_ESO

I wish they would just make glyphs stackable considering the varying amounts of mats and low inventory space.

Shadowcaster_9481

I gave up on enchanting a while ago. I have never been able to make a glyph that was useful to me so I just deconstruct all the dropped glyphs I get and pay someone to make glyphs for my gear every two levels. Deconstructing everything I ever found, I am VR11 with an enchanting skill of 29.

Zabalah

Aeratus wrote: »

I think you're exaggerating the amount of money it takes to buy the materials needed to get to level 40 enchant. You can buy white glyphs for around 100-125g from other players (but don't buy the vendor ones, since they have drastically reduced decon exp).

You are basing your assumption on the market not changing since you leveled up enchanting this past June... nearly 3 months ago. Furthermore, the average white glyph now approaches 250g each... and you are lucky if you can find them for 200g.

When I leveled enchanting to 40, which was around June, I think the total material cost to get to level 40 (without farming any glyphs yourself) was 100-120k if you knew where to get the materials. This was not such a great amount considering that you just needed to farm some motifs to pay it off. I only spent around 70k myself because I farmed part of the materials.

You know how ridiculous this sounds? If it costs 100-120k gold to level up your enchanting, how many glyphs will it take you to sell to make a return on your investment? provided of course you belong to very active trading guilds, can hawk your glyphs for hours on end in high level/vet zones, AND have the online time to devote to this while giving up your PvP/PvE online time to accomplish this broken craft?

Also, making an alt and swap glyphs between alts is by no means a bad idea because having two high level enchanters will bring you a lot of returns from hirelings.

NO... you are throwing a work around to a broken system that relies on a player's commitment to ignore this game mechanic and spend countless hours/gold -- to craft for himself, a few lousy gold glyphs that will do little to change the outcome of his character's power and abilities.

AlnilamE

Right now I'm level 36 in Enchanting on my level 35 character. Level 42 is where I can use my last skill point, so after that, I'm not going to put that much work into it anymore.

Even when I was still trying to enchant on my main, I didn't find that I couldn't make glyphs for my level.

I trade a lot of glyphs with friends and I send all glyphs my VR3 finds over to my enchanter.

My main is 50 in Clothing and Blacksmithing and 47 in Woodworking. I'm probably going to max out Enchanting before I'm done researching all the traits in the other crafts...

purple-magicb16_ESO

butterfly442 wrote: »

No traits to research. Hence the extended time to level it up.

Duh.

IMO u can't compare the two. @ least with smithing, u lvl up and can move on to new better materials 2 work with leveling your equipment in the process. With enchanting you're simply stuck @ the lvl you're on. So as a result, my char is left to enchant using lower lvl glyph which means he wears inferior (lower level) armor and uses inferior weapon. Ok, he could simply run out and buy the glyph but then what would be the point of becoming an enchanter? It simply can't keep up with the char development.


No doubt, enchanting needs move love.

Aeratus

Zabalah wrote: »

You know how ridiculous this sounds? If it costs 100-120k gold to level up your enchanting, how many glyphs will it take you to sell to make a return on your investment? provided of course you belong to very active trading guilds, can hawk your glyphs for hours on end in high level/vet zones, AND have the online time to devote to this while giving up your PvP/PvE online time to accomplish this broken craft?

Not ridiculous at all.

Back in June, Cura runes were selling for 1k each (still selling for 750 g now), and Kude slightly less. A hireling brings in up to two per day. Assuming 1.5 hireling deliveries to account for timing inefficiencies, that's already 1.25-1.5k worth of items per day in potency runes. Next, the hireling brings in aspect runes, and I'm going to estimate that you get another 1k per day. So you get back your investment over time for sure, even if you don't end up crafting anything.

Then, there's the convenience being able to craft glyphs without needing to ask another enchanter. Public crafters usually charged 1k+ service fees for crafting.

So IMO, the rewards for effort are not low when it comes to enchanting.

CoolsHisHands

I'm gonna go against the flow here, but... personally, I think ALL crafting skills should level as slow as enchanting. Maxing every other crafting profession is too easy in this game. Just by deconstructing your drops while questing, you can get 50 in Blacksmithing/Clothing/Woodworking by VR1 or VR2. Provisioning gives you so much IP per recipe it's a joke. Alchemy is a little tougher but still no problem at all if you have some guildies to help out, or you can just farm a little gold to buy grinding mats from player vendors.

At least researching all the Blacksmithing/Clothing/Woodworking traits takes significant time, but putting an explicit timer on it seems like a forced mechanic to me.

The speed at which enchanting levels up feels more right to me. If anything I think it could be even slower.

GnatB

Personal opinions:
1. Getting the most skill by deconstructing other peoples stuff is silly.
2. Translating runes simply by using them missed an opportunity.

Here how it (IMO) should have worked:
1. You can't use a rune to make a glyph until you have learned it's translation.
2. You learn it's translation via some sort of research mechanic. -or-
3. Deconstructing a glyph made using unknown rune(s) provides a (low) chance of translating said rune(s) (if the latter is the only way, then some base runes start translated)
4. You can attempt to use any (translated) rune to make a glyph regardless of passive skill level.
5. If you don't have the appropriate passive learned high enough, your odds for success are low to non-existant. Failure eats all runes. If your passive skill *is* high enough, success rate is 100%.
6. You gain the most skill by *failing* to craft a glyph 1 tier higher than the 100% success, rapidly tapering off as it gets *too* difficult, followed by translating a rune, Followed by deconstructing *any* rune, Followed by constructing a glyph above your passive. You gain NO skill for crafting 100% success glyphs.

Some of it is probably still doable, in particular the skill gain aspects.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

none of the crafts in this game have anything on EQs crafting leveling system. I did that on 3 characters and was working on a fourth when I quit.

Being beholden to the RNG to get skill ups is a cruel method.

Zabalah

Aeratus wrote: »

Zabalah wrote: »

You know how ridiculous this sounds? If it costs 100-120k gold to level up your enchanting, how many glyphs will it take you to sell to make a return on your investment? provided of course you belong to very active trading guilds, can hawk your glyphs for hours on end in high level/vet zones, AND have the online time to devote to this while giving up your PvP/PvE online time to accomplish this broken craft?

Not ridiculous at all.

Back in June, Cura runes were selling for 1k each (still selling for 750 g now), and Kude slightly less. A hireling brings in up to two per day. Assuming 1.5 hireling deliveries to account for timing inefficiencies, that's already 1.25-1.5k worth of items per day in potency runes. Next, the hireling brings in aspect runes, and I'm going to estimate that you get another 1k per day. So you get back your investment over time for sure, even if you don't end up crafting anything.

Then, there's the convenience being able to craft glyphs without needing to ask another enchanter. Public crafters usually charged 1k+ service fees for crafting.

So IMO, the rewards for effort are not low when it comes to enchanting.

Your theory is flawed because the sale of glyphs is not finite, and based purely on circumstances. In addition, based on your math, it would take a crafter 80 days to 'earn' 120k... of course you must sell all that which you garner from hirelings for this to work... and the possibilities of this are remote.

Anvos

Personally I find the system is semi backwards, where you gave the most items you'll be wearing (armor) the least number of effects you could enchant on them.