Some ideas for revamp of Dual Wield skill line

Vunter

Every stamina weapon has some problems in the skilline.
But today I want to discuss about dual wield.

Twin Slashes

Two hit attack for Physical Damage.
Affected target bleeds for Physical Damage over 9 seconds

Morphs (I'll put only new effects):
Blood Craze
Player recovers health every 2 seconds while effect is active
Rending Slashes
snared for the duration

The problem here is bleed over 9 seconds. Like in every other bleed effect. It's too long, in my opinion it should deal the same damage (or a little less) in 5 seconds..
Blood Craze could recover health over 1 second if the above change is made.
Rending Slashes is meh, but it can stay like it is.

Flurry

Six hit consecutive attack for Physical damage

Blinding Furry
4% chance on hit to set target off balance
Rapid Strikes
Increases attack speed by 15% for 6 seconds (18% at rank IV)

Flurry concept is okay. Blinding Furry suck. Never happened in my life to see the target off balance lol
Just make it 100% on last hit if the target isn't blocking.
Rapid Strikes suck even more.. Because light attacks does 0 DPS lol
Change it to "Destroying Strikes" and make it reduce enemy armor by 20% with last hit.
If I remember correctly, the last hit does more damage than the others and the suggested change should give it a real feeling of a "final blow".

Whirlwind

Deals Physical Damage to all surrounding enemies nearby
Damage is increased vs. enemies with low health
Steel Tornado
Has increased radius
Whirling Blades
Restores stamina to player every 2 seconds for 10 seconds
Each additional target hit increases stamina restore by 50% (65% at rank IV)

Whirlwind and Steel Tornado are cool.
Whirling Blades restored stamina is so little. And why ZOS is so obsessed with this "over 10 seconds"? Option 1: Make it restore stamina instantly for each enemy hit
Option 2: Since with the other morph you gain radius, with this one you could gain more damage.

Sparks

Blinds target for 4 seconds
Ember Explosion
Nearby targets gain 40% miss chance for 4 seconds
Affected enemies take Physical Damage
Heated Blades
Blinds target for 4 seconds
Weapon Power of next attack is increased by 24 (30 at rank IV)

Blinds and miss change works only with weapon abilities. Why ZOS loves spell so much?
The AOE of ember explosion is nothing per second.. Increase the miss chance to 60%. Heated Blades.. Now this could be cool. Make it increase weapon power for the same amount but for 5 seconds, so you feel like it is heated and it's cooling down. A cool buff is a must in all skill lines imo.

Hidden Blade

Throws a dagger dealing Physical Damage and snares 40% for 6 seconds (50% at rank IV)

Flying Blade
Increase range
Shrouded Daggers
Deals damage and snare to a cone

Sounds cool, but as if a opener skill. As it is now idk what it is supposed to do.
Make it deal a cool debuff, not just snare. Maybe for the not-morphed version is OK.
But Flying Blade is just terrible. Why range with dual wield? My suggestion is change it to "Poisoned Blade", a skill that does poison damage over time (8 seconds and it keeps the snare). Now it is a opener skill.
Shrouded Dagger could deal more damage or deal immobilize (so you can even benefit from the passive that makes you deal 15% more damage to stunned, immobilized, disoriented or silenced enemies) instead of snare.
Oh about the mentioned passive. As it is now, no skills of DW gives one of this debuff lol. Useful uh?

Anyway, this was my daydream of a cool DW skill line. I realize my dear ZOS would never look at this lol
But what do you forum people think?

PS: Maybe I'm buffing a little too much, but remember that if you are going around in a dress with a stick there isn't much you can do if someone reach you and stab you with 2 swords xD

GreyRanger

While I agree dual wielding could do with some adjustments, as can all the stamina weapons, I wanted to throw one more idea into the mix. Dual is the only melee weapon set with out a closer (e.g., critical charge for 2 hand & shield charge for sword & board).

I would love to see dual weapons get a gap closer if consequential changes are considered.

EinionYrth

GreyRanger wrote: »

While I agree dual wielding could do with some adjustments, as can all the stamina weapons, I wanted to throw one more idea into the mix. Dual is the only melee weapon set with out a closer (e.g., critical charge for 2 hand & shield charge for sword & board).

I would love to see dual weapons get a gap closer if consequential changes are considered.

I suspect that this is because ZOS only expected NBs to go DW and would use the class skill.

Xeres14

I've seen a rather large increase in how often blinding flurry procs. Maybe RNG is being good to me.

Jaxom

Vunter wrote: »

Every stamina weapon has some problems in the skilline.
But today I want to discuss about dual wield.

Hidden Blade

Throws a dagger dealing Physical Damage and snares 40% for 6 seconds (50% at rank IV)

Flying Blade
Increase range
Shrouded Daggers
Deals damage and snare to a cone

Sounds cool, but as if a opener skill. As it is now idk what it is supposed to do.
Make it deal a cool debuff, not just snare. Maybe for the not-morphed version is OK.
But Flying Blade is just terrible. Why range with dual wield? My suggestion is change it to "Poisoned Blade", a skill that does poison damage over time (8 seconds and it keeps the snare). Now it is a opener skill.
Shrouded Dagger could deal more damage or deal immobilize (so you can even benefit from the passive that makes you deal 15% more damage to stunned, immobilized, disoriented or silenced enemies) instead of snare.
Oh about the mentioned passive. As it is now, no skills of DW gives one of this debuff lol. Useful uh?

Anyway, this was my daydream of a cool DW skill line. I realize my dear ZOS would never look at this lol
But what do you forum people think?

PS: Maybe I'm buffing a little too much, but remember that if you are going around in a dress with a stick there isn't much you can do if someone reach you and stab you with 2 swords xD

Some of your idea's are pretty nice. I love the idea of Flurry reducing armor on the final hit. That would have nice synergy in PvP, especially with crushing glyphs. The Proc does happen as it worked for me last night. Sparks making Spells miss is a no brainer. If I throw burning embers in your eye, you can't see me to hit with a spell either. This change needs to happen. Agree with Twin Slashes.

Whirlwind is the only AoE execute in the game. If specced for it, it can be pretty devastating in PvE.

The thing I need to disagree on is Flying Blade (Bold above). Not only is it not terrible, it is by far, leaps and bounds, the best skill in the line. Why range? Because it gives the full melee line an option for a 28 meter attack (same as bow). The Snare is fantastic for kiting and the skill hits like a freaking truck. My Flying blade does more damage than Impale on a low health target.

Open with Flying Blade from stealth and you will nearly 1 shot most PvE mobs. In PvP, this skill is invaluable. Ranged snare and crits for 900+ on average. In my opinion, this is probably one of the best all-around Stamina based skills in the game. If you were to add an immobilize to it, as well as a snare (like Crippling Grasp), it would be borderline over powered (at least from a PvP standpoint).

Some of the tweaks you mentioned would certainly help the line, but I think the 2H line needs a bit more love first.

CapuchinSeven

Some of you just make me baffled.

Flying Blade is one of the best skills in the game, Whirlwind is the only AOE execute in the game and will hit for around 700 in a decent stamina build when targets drop below the 50% mark, Flurry has been shown to be worked into the core of an 800 DPS stamina build, Sparks has been shown in a number of PVP videos.

Dual Wield in PVE can hit over 800 DPS, some of these "lets revamp this" threads are just utterly baffling.

There's only one thing holding stamina builds back and that's light armour/restro staff insane magic regen rates, the raw damage isn't the problem, and the utility on DW is just great.

Lynx7386

GreyRanger wrote: »

While I agree dual wielding could do with some adjustments, as can all the stamina weapons, I wanted to throw one more idea into the mix. Dual is the only melee weapon set with out a closer (e.g., critical charge for 2 hand & shield charge for sword & board).

I would love to see dual weapons get a gap closer if consequential changes are considered.

Dual wield has a ranged attack, probably why it lacks a closer.

R0M2K

Id be just happy if they shorten the Blinding flurry / Rapid Strike animation to the half.

Sucks BIG time when your target runs out of range... Sorcs dont have that problem with theur chaneled spell.

EinionYrth

R0M2K wrote: »

Id be just happy if they shorten the Blinding flurry / Rapid Strike animation to the half.

Sucks BIG time when your target runs out of range... Sorcs dont have that problem with theur chaneled spell.

Apart from those of us sorcerers who dual wield, of course.

Xnemesis

The flying blade AoE morph is actually way better as a spam vs Whirling Blades. It cost less deals almost 2x the damage. When a group hits 25% you just spam Whirling blades and you are good to go. I usually fan of blades charge from stealth Power extraction, flying blade AoE spam till sub 25%, then Whirling Blades. also siphoning strikes for sustain... its not as bad as it looks it works out to be a 10% decrease in DPS. Also if you don't need the extra stamina from whirling blades don't even bother slotting it and add another ability to your bar.

Vunter

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Some of you just make me baffled.

Flying Blade is one of the best skills in the game, Whirlwind is the only AOE execute in the game and will hit for around 700 in a decent stamina build when targets drop below the 50% mark, Flurry has been shown to be worked into the core of an 800 DPS stamina build, Sparks has been shown in a number of PVP videos.

Dual Wield in PVE can hit over 800 DPS, some of these "lets revamp this" threads are just utterly baffling.

There's only one thing holding stamina builds back and that's light armour/restro staff insane magic regen rates, the raw damage isn't the problem, and the utility on DW is just great.

Flying Blade is good, ok. But I knew it does damage, but I personally don't like the concept. I said whilrwind is good too, it's the morph for stamina that sucks.
And are you saying spark is good as it is now? lol
Copy and paste those link of PVP videos (probably you'll find only some duels of some specialized players lol) and one with a good build with flurry, thanks.

Tamanous

Just to add:

Flurry is amazing. You can cut a large portion of the channel off with animation cancelling. You clip it right after the last of the lesser damage tics. Timed correctly the last large damage portion goes off whilst cutting the final animation completely out. No other DW skill comes close to it's dps. You also do not want the full animation of a heavy attack to go off. Clip it when yours arms are at peak windup before the swing at the enemy.

DW has a finisher. It is called Whirlwind which scales in damage the lower the health of your target has along with the passive Slaughter which makes ALL DW damage abilities a bit of a finisher. Whirlwind does not do as much damage as most single target finishers because it is aoe (and a large one at that morphed).

lathbury

Open with blood craze while it's ticking use rapid-strikes then clip the animation as stated. With a mix of hundings rage and ophidian a sets I was getting 1000 sustained dps. Ophidian jewlery enchanted for even more damage and having flawless dawn breaker on your bar are also beneficial.
Haste while otherwise useless has a good morph to boost your regen.

Mondo

Blinding Furry suck


...lost me there

Kego

EinionYrth wrote: »

GreyRanger wrote: »

While I agree dual wielding could do with some adjustments, as can all the stamina weapons, I wanted to throw one more idea into the mix. Dual is the only melee weapon set with out a closer (e.g., critical charge for 2 hand & shield charge for sword & board).

I would love to see dual weapons get a gap closer if consequential changes are considered.

I suspect that this is because ZOS only expected NBs to go DW and would use the class skill.

DK can use their class Skill to pull the Enemy to them, Templar has a charge in Class lines and Sorcs have Bolt Escape as Gap closer.

Bashev

Furry skills are nice only for pve for sustained dps. In PvP it sucks because the skill is channeled and if you need to use something else in that situation while you are executing furry you cannot do it, you cannot even use potions.

R0M2K

Im happier since i abandoned DW for 2h

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

Blinding flurry definitely works - it's proc allows for a follow up heavy attack for over 1k damage - pulling close to 2k at vr12 with the nightblade skill 'incapacitate' morphed from haste (increase in heavy attack damage by 13%)

Hypertionb14_ESO

Agree on basially all the changes..

In particular i have thrown around the first one in my head and even made similar "they should do this" comments to guild mates.

I really like the idea for the Whirlwind morph, making that like the Healing springs restoration i think would be ideal, as when i use that ability i spam it, not do one and wait a bit.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

The only things that realy need to happen in the Dualwield skill line (2-Handed Included too) are with the Bleeds effects and trait affecting specific weapons.

If Fire damage works on Flame Atronauch and if Poison damage works on any Daedric creatures there is no reason Bleeds shouldn't work on almost 50% of the ennemy types we are fighting in this game...

Twinblade and Blunt also needs a fix, there is no point to take anything else beside Swords or Daggers depending on the build. The Axes Bleeds should just be removed and be replaced with something more usefull (Critical Damage is my suggestion) and Maces should just get a flat penetration percentage to work like the Sharpened trait currently does.

Surfinginhawaii

R0M2K wrote: »

Im happier since i abandoned DW for 2h

I did the opposite and was curious to know why you now prefer two-hander over dual wield. Thanks!

khele23eb17_ESO

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Some of you just make me baffled.

Flying Blade is one of the best skills in the game, Whirlwind is the only AOE execute in the game and will hit for around 700 in a decent stamina build when targets drop below the 50% mark, Flurry has been shown to be worked into the core of an 800 DPS stamina build, Sparks has been shown in a number of PVP videos.

Dual Wield in PVE can hit over 800 DPS, some of these "lets revamp this" threads are just utterly baffling.

There's only one thing holding stamina builds back and that's light armour/restro staff insane magic regen rates, the raw damage isn't the problem, and the utility on DW is just great.

For a stamina skill line I agree its pretty good. But 'over 800 dps' still falls behind many magicka builds. So buff it, then buff other stamina lines more... or tone down the dominant mag builds.

jelliedsoup

A revamp to a single weapon line is not required, it s making all weapons lines to similar damage to class skills.

Snipe is good along with the animation cancelling of course.

Hidden blade is OK, flurry even with overcharged weapon will still not do sufficient damage against the class self heals availble.