Another Update All Focused On Group Content !

LonePirate

Circuitous wrote: »

Holy crap you can literally solo the entire game up to V12 and you're mad that they're finally putting real focus on group content? Please stop with this madness.

What I consider madness is the belief that all new content in this game needs to be aimed solely at a group size of 4. Why does the new content need to be for a group of 4 and no one else? Is it the antiquated definition of what some people think a traditional MMO is or should be? People need to modernize their views and start being more inclusive by dumping their outdated opinion of what a traditional marriage, oops, I mean what a traditional MMO is.

ZOS has the technology and the ability to scale or phase this content for any number of players from 1-24 (or more). They simply refuse to do so. Both sets of players - the solo/duo players and the group players - need to direct their vitriol towards ZOS instead of each other. ZOS should be uniting all player groups instead of dividing them with more narrowly focused content like this update and the previous updates.

Slaunyeh

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Why do people want soloable stuff in an MMO to begin with? I came here to play with friends, not go on my own and only see other players in towns.

Well, I didn't come here to play with your friends. So, to put it bluntly: why not? Why is it so hard to understand that other people might like other things than you do?

Samadhi

The_Sadist wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

My mental health issues prevent me from participating in group-oriented content.

I'm sorry, but why are you playing an MMO and actively participating on a forum when you have 'mental health issues' that prevent you from group-oriented content? I don't mean to be blunt, I'm just a little confused. I can't understand the mentality, participating in this very thread and conversing online is arguably on par with running a character through a dungeon with 3 other people.

Because I'm a masochist that enjoys the Elder Scrolls series, and this game is the only opportunity I have to share it with my girlfriend, who also enjoys Elder Scrolls.

I can respect that group-oriented players would want to advise that I exclude myself from a game that's not "designed for" my handicap though. In the setting of an MMO, my disability is detrimental to their gameplay more than to my own.
Out of that respect, I play in a manner which limits how much I hamper their gameplay while still enjoying myself.

If I have an anxiety attack while on the forums, I can afk, medicate and meditate for as long as I need to calm down and get back to being centered. I'm even a forum moderator for a f2p MMORPG, because I've learned adequate coping mechanisms for the issue.
If I do that sort of thing in the middle of a group dungeon, multiple people get pissed off at me which exacerbates the issue. It also stresses out my girlfriend to have to deal with those people on my behalf.
At least if I do such while duoing content with my girlfriend, she simply takes a break from the game with me and we lose nothing.

I'm not going to completely abstain from playing the latest and largest installment of a game series that I have loved for years because of my health though. I refuse to let my condition beat me down that badly.
I can limit my issues by participating in all the rest of the content while abstaining from the portion that causes me the most difficulty. My therapist heartily approves of this methodology. We both hope that I can eventually make steps forward, but at least right now I'm not moving backward.
My condition has taken almost everything else from me already. I can't hold down a job; I had to leave University without obtaining my degree; I had to leave my Fencing group and Tai Chi classes; I no longer go out to the bar with my friends; I can't even reliably shop for groceries or enjoy a dinner out a restaurant.
I won't let it take away one of my favourite hobbies that I have had since the days of Pong and Pac Man.

I don't want to see group content removed or inhibited; I'm very glad it exists for the players that get to take part of it.
It's not for me though, and I respect that. There is plenty else I can do in this game, and I only slightly feel like I am missing out on the things I can't.

Thank you for taking the time to try and learn about my end of things though.

Pallmor

My main problem is that all the new content is all oriented towards V12 players. Now, I understand why ZOS does that. They want to keep the hardcore vets around (and paying). But I'm still working up to lvl 50. And when I get there, I'm not even sure I want to grind the vet stuff. So I may never see V12.

I was actually thinking of rolling alts to try out new builds in the two other alliances. And I really don't want to have to go through the same missions all over again. So this would leave me with 3 lvl 50 characters, but no endgame content, which kinda sucks.

As far as grouping, I mostly like on-the-fly informal grouping I guess (taking on world bosses, dolmens, public dungeons in little groups that happen to be there and team up). I'm not so comfortable with formal groups. A few have been fun.

But as someone relatively new to MMO's, I'm never sure what role I'm supposed to play in a group. I know very little about the "holy trinity" and don't really have a focused "build." I just sort of play the way I play. I didn't set out to be a tank or healer or DPS or whatever. So I always feel like everyone is staring at me when I go into a group. And I'm pretty sure there aren't a lot of guilds looking for a mutt character like mine.

I like a lot of the social aspects of the game, though. I like how alive the world feels and the informal grouping and trading (and watching other players running around doing stuff). And so I find it a little annoying that some people treat the term "MMO" as if it were necessarily synonymous with formal grouping and hardcore raiding.

Sorry to rant. But that's just my take.

SgtPepperUK

Group content is great when done right, such as dungeons and raids.

But PvE general questing is different, it can be difficult doing that with people you know really well (a group of 3 of us from my guild did this on alts through one of the LoTRO expansions), it requires a hell of a lot of communication and people often follow the quest storylines at their own pace.

Tapio75

I am in no way running out of solo stuff but when i am at top VR level i will want to continue soloing in soloable adventure areas

Plus i dont want anything that i have to teleport in to, i am a warrior of steel, i dont know any magic that can teleport me somewhere plus who can tell i arrive in one piece...

Erlindur

I don't really think the problem is group vs solo content but the whole approach ZoS takes about content. Let me explain my point of view.

I mostly solo. So, when I finished Cadwell's gold, I said what the ..., lets go to Craglorn and do some grouping. As a soloer, I like questing, so I wanted to do that first. Well, apparently no one quests there. Lots of time in my hands, I tried to solo some staff. This is ZoS approach as far as I'm aware.

Take quest (phase 1)
do something (phase2) / group but may be soloed
go in a group dungeon and do something else (phase 3) /group but I managed to sneak to my objective.
do something (phase 4) /group but may be soloed
go in a group dungeon and do something (phase 5) /cannot be soloed and needs group in phase 5.

AAAARGH!

Now, let me suggest a new approach for the same thing.

take quest 1. The quest is open world, daily repeatable by everyone and gives xp and loot. May be soloed by some way but for less loot. For example, you can take the item without killing the boss but there is no chest. The objective is the previous phase 2. Quest ends here, opening the next quest.

Quest for phase 3. Quest is inside group dungeon. It is daily, and everyone (regardless of phase) can do it. Gives nice xp and loot. No need to be soloable but people have reasons to do it now. Why not, place a hard mode for extra loot. Put it in group finder.

quest for phase 4. Just as quest 1.

Quest for phase 5. Just like quest 3. No need to be in the same phase. You can bring friends to help. It gives nice xp and loot and you can even find a pug for it.

You may have people doing things out of order like q1, then q5, then q3 but the steps of the quest go from one to the next. If I do q1 then q5, my actual quest stage is q2 and wont move till I do q2.

Is this that hard to do?

epoling

ZOS would have been smarter to have staggered the addition of high-end group content a bit more by maybe making number two the guilds and dyes and then number four either lower level group content or a high level solo zone. (Plus, they should have thrown in some meaningful PvP love for those that like that style of play.) As it is, three of the first four updates have been for high level group activities. I am not objecting to the inclusion of this content, but would have liked to have seen things spread out among all player groups better. As it is, it almost feels like they have pitted one group of players against the rest. While I am sure it is not Zenimax's intention, it seems to be having that effect.

I would also concur with those who point out that going from basically solo through the VR stuff to forced grouping at Craglorn is jarring. Grouping should probably never be forced and there should be more meaningful opportunities for it at lower levels to get it down if you choose to group.

Anastasia

LonePirate wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

Holy crap you can literally solo the entire game up to V12 and you're mad that they're finally putting real focus on group content? Please stop with this madness.

What I consider madness is the belief that all new content in this game needs to be aimed solely at a group size of 4. Why does the new content need to be for a group of 4 and no one else?

>>>>Is it the antiquated definition of what some people think a traditional MMO is or should be? People need to modernize their views and start being more inclusive by dumping their outdated opinion of what a traditional marriage, oops, I mean what a traditional MMO is.<<<<<

ZOS has the technology and the ability to scale or phase this content for any number of players from 1-24 (or more). They simply refuse to do so. Both sets of players - the solo/duo players and the group players - need to direct their vitriol towards ZOS instead of each other. ZOS should be uniting all player groups instead of dividing them with more narrowly focused content like this update and the previous updates.

---

WROTHGAR is coming.

Soloers are not being ignored. In fact you have solo-centric content all the way from the tutorial through to V10/11/12 content. You can also solo to your hearts content picking off players unaware while you do a little fun PvE content inside Cyr.

No one in this thread is saying MMO exclusively means grouping. Every vet PvE player also participated in many other parts of the MMO's they have played over the years. Whatever the traditionally accepted definition of the MMO genre is, there IS one.

If you want to engage in activism to literally change the design, components and mechanics of having mainly groups, and/or raid forces in an MMO's PvE endgame, more power to you. But be honest, and say that is what you are doing, rather than trying to filter that attempt through badly worded pseudo-definitions under the pretense that the definition of MMO has already been majorly changed.

More choice is the best thing ever for a gamer. I don't want ONLY dungeon runs and forced groups, but I detest forced soloing as well. Whatever 'new' content is released in an MMO cannot be perfectly evenly distributed when there are so many different playstyles in said content. One major update might be a grouping of solo questing and new crafting recipes and achievements. Likewise, the next major update could be PvP/Imperial City woo hoo! stuff along with a whole new zone primarily focusing on grouping content and difficulty. Thats what is happening based on the ZOS drop to live timeline.

(*) Now is it really that you are just not happy with the timeline and ZOSs' choice of what new content is coming when? I understand. I've been quite, QUITE impatient with not having a good sized chunk of group Vet content for players to regularly get experience with and learn their roles and the requirements that are needed for endgame play.

I sympathize with you and get your impatience for more of what your favorite content is. I'm STILL waiting to see how that Vet+ content Nerf from July 7th is going to be addressed or what the answer will be to all but the most experienced PvE veterans who are arriving at TESO endgame PvE and not feeling 'welcome' as they try to go forward with endgame groups.

Many individual players are now finding it difficult to get a spot specifically because they are not able to meet the bar and be a productive member for what needs to be done to succeed in endgame content now and that is a direct result of not grouping, and not grouping regularly in the zones leading up to the highest level of PvE gameplay.

So...you be patient for Wrothgar et al, and I'll be patient for fixes to be put in place for melee/stam builds, stam REGEN, game playability, the Champion System to bring perks which will strengthen my character, Imperial City, the DB and Thieves Guild with the Justice System which is going to interweave some PvE AND PvPing fun! I also am still hoping for ZOS to add a higher e x p bonus to groups and up the loot rewards so that players will want to group more often in Vet content and then be much more able to earn their way into Dragonstar Arena fun!!

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

The_Sadist wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

My mental health issues prevent me from participating in group-oriented content.

I'm sorry, but why are you playing an MMO and actively participating on a forum when you have 'mental health issues' that prevent you from group-oriented content? I don't mean to be blunt, I'm just a little confused. I can't understand the mentality, participating in this very thread and conversing online is arguably on par with running a character through a dungeon with 3 other people.

I know for me, with heavy anxiety issues and social anxiety disorder, grouping can be extremely stressful. Forums usually aren't because I can post to them at my leisure or ignore them if it gets to be too much. I use voice chat a lot now but that is partly because I have gotten used to it, I was originally having anxiety attacks constantly while voice chatting. It still wear me out and makes me feel exhausted by the end of the day, but it's manageable.

I don't do PUGs normally because of the potential negative social interactions they can bring, so I end up never doing 4 mans etc because I fear negative encounters and the stress it would cause me.

Different things trigger stress in different people.

Audigy

stefanosbekrwb17_ESO wrote: »

What's the point having elder scrolls ONLINE if you gonna be playing solo? Makes no sense when you think about that you have superb single player choices like skyrim and oblivion.zenimax is not wrong for focusing group content. You're just playing the wrong game.

I think you miss the point entirely.

From 1-50 and now until VR 12 players wont meet anyone. They are taught that this game can be and should be played solo in the open world while doing quests, a bit of pvp and mostly adventuring.

At VR 12 however, people are told that they now must suddenly have a huge F list to visit dungeons and trials and that all the content now plays in an instanced zone where gear drops every season (update).


Every update so far focused on trials and dungeons at VR 12. Nothing however was added to teach players about grouping, about trials or dungeons. Instead the only group opportunity which existed (VR 1-10) was removed from the game.

What does ZO expect? Do they really think that players somehow find friends while playing all alone? I mean, ZO must really believe this why else would they release dungeons and trials all the time?

The sad truth however is, that whole dungeon and raid content wont be used by many people. If at least 10 % go there then this would be a lot, WOW struggles with 5% since years.

In my opinion does the whole "content cycle" not make any sense. First they remove any type of group chance we players had and while doing so every new content is aimed at group players. This is a dissent if you ask me.


But this is only one issue.

Another is that we do have players that don't even want to raid or visit dungeons all the time, those that want to RP, PVP or explore the world. Where is their content? The 4th update will once again not have something for them, seriously this is just very poor.

They once said that their aim is a real MMO with content for everyone and not just the raiding crowd. That promise seems to be worth less with every new update coming and people are upset about it which is understandable I think. It seems not right to bring out yet another trial & dungeon patch, while justice system, housing or new factions are yet to be implemented.

Nox_Aeterna

I agree , now that my char got to VR12 im just getting achivs and lvling craft skills i missed.

Once everything is on 50 and i have the cool achivs , i will probably unsub till they add more content , again i return the point where zen made quite clear their loyalty is only to new players anyway , so no reason to stay subbed if i think the content is not worth it.

Even now i still got 0 skyshards/quests... in craglorn :P.

I agree with other posters on the most obvious issue here:

Most of the content while you are lvling will make mostly solo players remain interested in the game , since it is really not meant for grouping while lvling , then at max lvl they turn this around and say the game is meant for groups. Reality check to zen , by this point tons of players who wanted the group content already left and many of those that are still around dont want anything to do with it.

eliisra

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Why do people want soloable stuff in an MMO to begin with? I came here to play with friends, not go on my own and only see other players in towns.

Aren't we allowed to enjoy both if we play MMO's?

I group a lot, but I also want to run of and mind my own business. Sometimes I get really tired of people. Just want to close TS and all the blabbering, ignore guild and friends, sneak away and go adventure on my own. Not everyone enjoys hanging out with others and being considerate, coordinated and talkative 24/7.

I shouldn't have to play another game for that. Modern MMO's should be able to deliver both solo- and group play at level cap, if you pay the subscription fee. Most do. Not asking for much here really, but I feel that upper Craglorn could at least deliver a few quest-lines for solo play.

Anvos

The way I see it is ZOS just wants to finish one new zone before moving on to the next. Plus we did seem to be promised at least one new single player zone in the long term road ahead stuff.

ItsMeToo

FYI - This MMORPG has no "Endgame". The game keeps expanding. Therefore, there is no end of game.