My thoughts on ESO PvP (PvP Rank 36)

joetpelusob14_ESO

Hello all,

I've spent a decent amount of time in cyrodil since the last beta weekends, so I feel comfortable giving my opinion on the PvP side of the game.

At this point, to me, the end-game PvP in ESO is unplayable. It's not because of overpowered this/overpowered that. It's not because of flavor of the month builds or tactics. It's not even because of the aoe caps.

The end-game PvP of ESO is unplayable, to me, for an issue that shouldn't even be an issue in 2014.

It crashes, all the time, without discrimination.

AD, DC, EP
High end PC to low end PC.
Mac User to Windows User.
It affects all of us, equally.

Sure there's that 1-3% it doesn't hit quite as hard. But I don't really want to hear it when most every single one of your hardcore community members is building resentment and frustration by the "45minute PvP crash window interval"

FPS Issue with Interior Lighting Patch killed 75% of the good pvpers. How much is this crashing going to take with it?

My advice Zenimax. Clean house, fire at will, take out the checkbook, hire some top tier pros in whichever avenue of video game design you need for however long you need, and get this ship back on track.

Myself and another Palatine(r36) on the DC side agreed nothing is worse than wasted potential. Don't let the entire gaming community down. We would be very disappointed.

Continually hopeful,

-Permared
-Alacrity
-PvP Rank 36
NA

Columba

Agree. While you are at it, can you also fix the exploit that allows players to glitch behind gates, set up forward camps and allow one side to exploit that? That's almost as important to some of us.

Teargrants

I wish I could stay in Cyrodiil w/o crashing long enough to witness these exploits so I could actually get upset at them.

Kiljaz

You hit that nail on the head Perma.

Xsorus

joetpelusob14_ESO wrote: »

Hello all,

I've spent a decent amount of time in cyrodil since the last beta weekends, so I feel comfortable giving my opinion on the PvP side of the game.

At this point, to me, the end-game PvP in ESO is unplayable. It's not because of overpowered this/overpowered that. It's not because of flavor of the month builds or tactics. It's not even because of the aoe caps.

The end-game PvP of ESO is unplayable, to me, for an issue that shouldn't even be an issue in 2014.

It crashes, all the time, without discrimination.

AD, DC, EP
High end PC to low end PC.
Mac User to Windows User.
It affects all of us, equally.

Sure there's that 1-3% it doesn't hit quite as hard. But I don't really want to hear it when most every single one of your hardcore community members is building resentment and frustration by the "45minute PvP crash window interval"

FPS Issue with Interior Lighting Patch killed 75% of the good pvpers. How much is this crashing going to take with it?

My advice Zenimax. Clean house, fire at will, take out the checkbook, hire some top tier pros in whichever avenue of video game design you need for however long you need, and get this ship back on track.

Myself and another Palatine(r36) on the DC side agreed nothing is worse than wasted potential. Don't let the entire gaming community down. We would be very disappointed.

Continually hopeful,

-Permared
-Alacrity
-PvP Rank 36
NA

A patch is going in tomorrow to fix it
well....possibly fix it.

zScars

when eso.exe reaches 3.7 million (3.5mill for most people) you'll crash. just keep checking your task manager

krim

Columba wrote: »

Agree. While you are at it, can you also fix the exploit that allows players to glitch behind gates, set up forward camps and allow one side to exploit that? That's almost as important to some of us.

Get over it.

Columba

krim wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

Agree. While you are at it, can you also fix the exploit that allows players to glitch behind gates, set up forward camps and allow one side to exploit that? That's almost as important to some of us.

Get over it.

get over what?

zScars

i did it in beta and after beta who cares

Naw_Sunrest

Well said, Perma. I really hate seeing my friends and guildmates leave this game out of frustration. My first PvP guild all left ESO because of broken mercenary mages. I hope Zenimax gets it together but how long have we been saying that?

Lava_Croft

Heh. I just get awful framerates but rarely crash...

Perphection

Same, I came to this game with 92 PvP'ers who have been playing mmo's for 20+ years, and the majority quit the game within the first month due to unresolved game-breaking issues.

Zenimax really needs to protect their investment by cleaning house and hiring some better programmers. The current team is just too inexperienced to have this type of project in their hands.

Cody

krim wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

Agree. While you are at it, can you also fix the exploit that allows players to glitch behind gates, set up forward camps and allow one side to exploit that? That's almost as important to some of us.

Get over it.

Get over the fact that people care about the game.

Renuo

NookyZooky wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

Agree. While you are at it, can you also fix the exploit that allows players to glitch behind gates, set up forward camps and allow one side to exploit that? That's almost as important to some of us.

Get over it.

Get over the fact that people care about the game.

I'm pretty sure krim cares about the game. I think a lot of us are getting a bit worn out with Columba saying the same stuff over and over which is what he's really getting at... and +1 to the OP this is kinda ludicrous to say the least.

zScars

Perphection wrote: »

Same, I came to this game with 92 PvP'ers who have been playing mmo's for 20+ years, and the majority quit the game within the first month due to unresolved game-breaking issues.

Zenimax really needs to protect their investment by cleaning house and hiring some better programmers. The current team is just too inexperienced to have this type of project in their hands.

I came here w/ 20 and they all quit within the 2nd week. After trying convincing them that it would get better when craiglorn, we got quests that were bugged, and the legendary cyrodill fps bug that lasted for a month. Even the new dungeon sets in craiglorn are utter crap, now and then.

I should of called it quits long ago.

Columba

Get over that people glitch through closed gates? Hmm ok. Character or lack thereof revealed. I agree with the OP; however, I'd like to also see blatant cheating prevented as well. That way, no empower could mistakenly port into an illegally place FC and be mistakenly accused of cheating. We wouldn't want that to happen now would we? Not sure why people would argue with this. It protects the innocent! Hope you enjoyed your short stay in our ts.

Zubba

I'm not so sure it's the programmers. They take orders from their boss.

Mauz

I did not get crashed before 1.3, disconnects yes but not crashes. I did have less lag problems before althought my ping is now 30-40ms compared to 150ms before 1.3.

I'm not sure where the crashed come from. Seems to random, I'm have it in PvE areas while doing quests too but at much lower frequency.

But what bothers me more than crash once every hour is to get these awful lags as soon I'm in range of one of these aoe spaming trains. With more than one train near me (and "near me" is feeling far away, much earlier than I actually can see the train or even be in fire range) the game becomes unplayable and its just a question of time I get a dc or a crash. But crashes did not appear before 1.3 so this might be independent problems. After login the chat is full of complaints about having dcs or crashes. So it's not only me and my hardware or connection cant be the issue.

With every content patch for each problem fixed three new appear. I personally would prefer quality patches for 1.4 and 1.5 instead of pumping new features with low quality into an instable game engine.

IKilled007

I like the memory leaks, crashes, and server rollbacks. Kicking yellow's culo is way too easy, and roflstomping red's zerg is like rolling over peasants with tanks. But these coding issues add a much needed element of suspense: "Is this the moment my healer will be disconnected?" "Will this flag assault be the one wherein my skill bar grays out?" And so forth. Also, what's "Alacrity"?

Covert Ops
Carried by No Mercy for 6 weeks and counting.

Dleatherus

regarding numbers

we came with 400+ and we are down to 168 of which i think about 120 or so are still active - trimmed 38 names from the roster today that were +21 days inactive

OP is spot on, though I will also add that more of our members left in disgust at the lack of a swift and decisive response in regards to addressing months of exploits (such as collusive emperor farming, 'friendly' enemy DK chain pulling to cap keeps, closed gate scroll stealing, 50k+ one shot kills etc) than left because of crashes

if you look at the recent poll regarding what should be fixed in PvP, the crashes ranked and easy first place, and addressing the exploiting came in 2nd

i suspect if it weren't for the fact that many of those still in PvP are former emperor farmers and exploiters, and if there were more legit players left, the voting would have been a lot closer

the combo of both FPS and the lenient exploiter policy is crippling

D.

IKilled007

Dleatherus wrote: »

regarding numbers

we came with 400+ and we are down to 168 of which i think about 120 or so are still active - trimmed 38 names from the roster today that were +21 days inactive

OP is spot on, though I will also add that more of our members left in disgust at the lack of a swift and decisive response in regards to addressing months of exploits (such as collusive emperor farming, 'friendly' enemy DK chain pulling to cap keeps, closed gate scroll stealing, 50k+ one shot kills etc) than left because of crashes

if you look at the recent poll regarding what should be fixed in PvP, the crashes ranked and easy first place, and addressing the exploiting came in 2nd

i suspect if it weren't for the fact that many of those still in PvP are former emperor farmers and exploiters, and if there were more legit players left, the voting would have been a lot closer

the combo of both FPS and the lenient exploiter policy is crippling

D.

I can live with the cheaters -- every MMO has them always. Real life has them. It's the broken gameplay like you guys are talking about which is murder.

Dleatherus

IKilled007 wrote: »

Dleatherus wrote: »

regarding numbers

we came with 400+ and we are down to 168 of which i think about 120 or so are still active - trimmed 38 names from the roster today that were +21 days inactive

OP is spot on, though I will also add that more of our members left in disgust at the lack of a swift and decisive response in regards to addressing months of exploits (such as collusive emperor farming, 'friendly' enemy DK chain pulling to cap keeps, closed gate scroll stealing, 50k+ one shot kills etc) than left because of crashes

if you look at the recent poll regarding what should be fixed in PvP, the crashes ranked and easy first place, and addressing the exploiting came in 2nd

i suspect if it weren't for the fact that many of those still in PvP are former emperor farmers and exploiters, and if there were more legit players left, the voting would have been a lot closer

the combo of both FPS and the lenient exploiter policy is crippling

D.

I can live with the cheaters -- every MMO has them always. Real life has them. It's the broken gameplay like you guys are talking about which is murder.

i fully agree every mmo has them - i been playing mmo's since UO in '97 (i suspect it's where the OP's name comes from - i was a permared also there)

however i don't know of a successful mmo that has a policy like this one in regards to exploiters

just my opinion, but if ESO dealt with exploiters and folks who abuse the 'spirit of the game' the same way they deal with gold spammers, we would have several fun healthy and thriving campaigns instead of barely one

current policy as perceived by many of the remaining legit players in our particular guild:
if a person exploits or uses game mechanics in an unintended manner the response from ZOS is 'oh - yes - that's unintended - but we programmed it in - so i guess we're at fault - we couldn't ever take action against somebody who was abusing game mechanics because we created the game mechanics - our bad - we'll try fix it and monitor it from then on and see if the fix worked, if they keep on exploiting we'll fix it a bit more and monitor it a bit more'

policy in every other PvP/sandbox MMO i have played in:
'you're breaking our rules of the spirit of the game and ToS, might not have been intentional so we are issuing a warning, continued misuse will result in a 3 day ban - further violations will lead to apermanent ban'
(often players just got the ban without any courtesy notice - players made an effort to ensure that they were playing legit and above board)

THAT is the difference

D.

Makkir

I am posting out of curiosity. I have been playing more actively on Thornblade around prime time hours (7 or 8pm EST) and I have crashed maybe 6 times over the week. But it's never a 45 minute ordeal. If I have the lag crash (All other characters are holding still) I just ALT F4 out and relog back in. The longest queue I have been in was literally 6 seconds. Maybe I am just lucky.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Naming & Shaming]

IKilled007

Dleatherus wrote: »

IKilled007 wrote: »

Dleatherus wrote: »

regarding numbers

we came with 400+ and we are down to 168 of which i think about 120 or so are still active - trimmed 38 names from the roster today that were +21 days inactive

OP is spot on, though I will also add that more of our members left in disgust at the lack of a swift and decisive response in regards to addressing months of exploits (such as collusive emperor farming, 'friendly' enemy DK chain pulling to cap keeps, closed gate scroll stealing, 50k+ one shot kills etc) than left because of crashes

if you look at the recent poll regarding what should be fixed in PvP, the crashes ranked and easy first place, and addressing the exploiting came in 2nd

i suspect if it weren't for the fact that many of those still in PvP are former emperor farmers and exploiters, and if there were more legit players left, the voting would have been a lot closer

the combo of both FPS and the lenient exploiter policy is crippling

D.

I can live with the cheaters -- every MMO has them always. Real life has them. It's the broken gameplay like you guys are talking about which is murder.

i fully agree every mmo has them - i been playing mmo's since UO in '97 (i suspect it's where the OP's name comes from - i was a permared also there)

however i don't know of a successful mmo that has a policy like this one in regards to exploiters

just my opinion, but if ESO dealt with exploiters and folks who abuse the 'spirit of the game' the same way they deal with gold spammers, we would have several fun healthy and thriving campaigns instead of barely one

current policy as perceived by many of the remaining legit players in our particular guild:
if a person exploits or uses game mechanics in an unintended manner the response from ZOS is 'oh - yes - that's unintended - but we programmed it in - so i guess we're at fault - we couldn't ever take action against somebody who was abusing game mechanics because we created the game mechanics - our bad - we'll try fix it and monitor it from then on and see if the fix worked, if they keep on exploiting we'll fix it a bit more and monitor it a bit more'

policy in every other PvP/sandbox MMO i have played in:
'you're breaking our rules of the spirit of the game and ToS, might not have been intentional so we are issuing a warning, continued misuse will result in a 3 day ban - further violations will lead to apermanent ban'
(often players just got the ban without any courtesy notice - players made an effort to ensure that they were playing legit and above board)

THAT is the difference

D.

I suspect Zenimax can't afford, literally, to ban exploiters and hackers and such right now. What's the best guess as to their subscriber base? If they want to release the console version of this game, they probably need every single cheater who's paying his monthly fee. If that console doesn't get released for whatever reason, this game dies within 3 months of that announcement.

Dleatherus

IKilled007 wrote: »

Dleatherus wrote: »

IKilled007 wrote: »

Dleatherus wrote: »

regarding numbers

we came with 400+ and we are down to 168 of which i think about 120 or so are still active - trimmed 38 names from the roster today that were +21 days inactive

OP is spot on, though I will also add that more of our members left in disgust at the lack of a swift and decisive response in regards to addressing months of exploits (such as collusive emperor farming, 'friendly' enemy DK chain pulling to cap keeps, closed gate scroll stealing, 50k+ one shot kills etc) than left because of crashes

if you look at the recent poll regarding what should be fixed in PvP, the crashes ranked and easy first place, and addressing the exploiting came in 2nd

i suspect if it weren't for the fact that many of those still in PvP are former emperor farmers and exploiters, and if there were more legit players left, the voting would have been a lot closer

the combo of both FPS and the lenient exploiter policy is crippling

D.

I can live with the cheaters -- every MMO has them always. Real life has them. It's the broken gameplay like you guys are talking about which is murder.

i fully agree every mmo has them - i been playing mmo's since UO in '97 (i suspect it's where the OP's name comes from - i was a permared also there)

however i don't know of a successful mmo that has a policy like this one in regards to exploiters

just my opinion, but if ESO dealt with exploiters and folks who abuse the 'spirit of the game' the same way they deal with gold spammers, we would have several fun healthy and thriving campaigns instead of barely one

current policy as perceived by many of the remaining legit players in our particular guild:
if a person exploits or uses game mechanics in an unintended manner the response from ZOS is 'oh - yes - that's unintended - but we programmed it in - so i guess we're at fault - we couldn't ever take action against somebody who was abusing game mechanics because we created the game mechanics - our bad - we'll try fix it and monitor it from then on and see if the fix worked, if they keep on exploiting we'll fix it a bit more and monitor it a bit more'

policy in every other PvP/sandbox MMO i have played in:
'you're breaking our rules of the spirit of the game and ToS, might not have been intentional so we are issuing a warning, continued misuse will result in a 3 day ban - further violations will lead to apermanent ban'
(often players just got the ban without any courtesy notice - players made an effort to ensure that they were playing legit and above board)

THAT is the difference

D.

I suspect Zenimax can't afford, literally, to ban exploiters and hackers and such right now. What's the best guess as to their subscriber base? If they want to release the console version of this game, they probably need every single cheater who's paying his monthly fee. If that console doesn't get released for whatever reason, this game dies within 3 months of that announcement.

had they warned/banned 300-400 PvP cheaters and exploiters they would have retained 10,000 - 15,000 PvP players easy - the $'s math is easy enough tofigure out from there

the sad fact is is they couldn't afford to let the exploiters stay, but they did

i also cannot speak for how healthy the PvE side is - might be it's holding its own and the loss of the PvP populace though a concern, isn't a worry

D.

Columba

Makkir wrote: »

I am posting out of curiosity. I have been playing more actively on Thornblade around prime time hours (7 or 8pm EST) and I have crashed maybe 6 times over the week. But it's never a 45 minute ordeal. If I have the lag crash (All other characters are holding still) I just ALT F4 out and relog back in. The longest queue I have been in was literally 6 seconds. Maybe I am just lucky.

No comment, lol let's just agree that those who defend cheating the most or just say get over it are typically the ones most guilty.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

IKilled007

Dleatherus wrote: »

IKilled007 wrote: »

Dleatherus wrote: »

IKilled007 wrote: »

Dleatherus wrote: »

regarding numbers

we came with 400+ and we are down to 168 of which i think about 120 or so are still active - trimmed 38 names from the roster today that were +21 days inactive

OP is spot on, though I will also add that more of our members left in disgust at the lack of a swift and decisive response in regards to addressing months of exploits (such as collusive emperor farming, 'friendly' enemy DK chain pulling to cap keeps, closed gate scroll stealing, 50k+ one shot kills etc) than left because of crashes

if you look at the recent poll regarding what should be fixed in PvP, the crashes ranked and easy first place, and addressing the exploiting came in 2nd

i suspect if it weren't for the fact that many of those still in PvP are former emperor farmers and exploiters, and if there were more legit players left, the voting would have been a lot closer

the combo of both FPS and the lenient exploiter policy is crippling

D.

I can live with the cheaters -- every MMO has them always. Real life has them. It's the broken gameplay like you guys are talking about which is murder.

i fully agree every mmo has them - i been playing mmo's since UO in '97 (i suspect it's where the OP's name comes from - i was a permared also there)

however i don't know of a successful mmo that has a policy like this one in regards to exploiters

just my opinion, but if ESO dealt with exploiters and folks who abuse the 'spirit of the game' the same way they deal with gold spammers, we would have several fun healthy and thriving campaigns instead of barely one

current policy as perceived by many of the remaining legit players in our particular guild:
if a person exploits or uses game mechanics in an unintended manner the response from ZOS is 'oh - yes - that's unintended - but we programmed it in - so i guess we're at fault - we couldn't ever take action against somebody who was abusing game mechanics because we created the game mechanics - our bad - we'll try fix it and monitor it from then on and see if the fix worked, if they keep on exploiting we'll fix it a bit more and monitor it a bit more'

policy in every other PvP/sandbox MMO i have played in:
'you're breaking our rules of the spirit of the game and ToS, might not have been intentional so we are issuing a warning, continued misuse will result in a 3 day ban - further violations will lead to apermanent ban'
(often players just got the ban without any courtesy notice - players made an effort to ensure that they were playing legit and above board)

THAT is the difference

D.

I suspect Zenimax can't afford, literally, to ban exploiters and hackers and such right now. What's the best guess as to their subscriber base? If they want to release the console version of this game, they probably need every single cheater who's paying his monthly fee. If that console doesn't get released for whatever reason, this game dies within 3 months of that announcement.

had they warned/banned 300-400 PvP cheaters and exploiters they would have retained 10,000 - 15,000 PvP players easy - the $'s math is easy enough tofigure out from there

the sad fact is is they couldn't afford to let the exploiters stay, but they did

i also cannot speak for how healthy the PvE side is - might be it's holding its own and the loss of the PvP populace though a concern, isn't a worry

D.

Agreed.

Draxys

joetpelusob14_ESO wrote: »

Don't let the entire gaming community down. We would be very disappointed.

This, unfortunately, seems to be what's happening. I don't know what exactly is to be done, but this is a crucial time for ESO. We've stuck around through thick and, well... thick. Now it's a "do whatever it takes" time for the game's management and leadership, and I wonder if they have the ability to see it through.

Gildren

It would be very reassuring if we were to see a crack down on the players who are exploiting (sharing accounts, emp farmers, ability environment and equipment bugs, etc.). Something public, such as a Staff/DM running about in Cyrodill and announcing their presence while looking for players who are using exploits.

The client side memory leak that we're dealing with at the moment is frustrating, but it's the perception that exploiters are allowed free reign in Cyrodiil that is truly damaging in my humble opinion.

Cody

Renuo wrote: »

NookyZooky wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

Agree. While you are at it, can you also fix the exploit that allows players to glitch behind gates, set up forward camps and allow one side to exploit that? That's almost as important to some of us.

Get over it.

Get over the fact that people care about the game.

I'm pretty sure krim cares about the game. I think a lot of us are getting a bit worn out with Columba saying the same stuff over and over which is what he's really getting at... and +1 to the OP this is kinda ludicrous to say the least.

well krim does not seem to come out as caring about the game. if one guy annoys him so much, he should just ignore him.

LunaRae

Makkir wrote: »

I am posting out of curiosity. I have been playing more actively on Thornblade around prime time hours (7 or 8pm EST) and I have crashed maybe 6 times over the week. But it's never a 45 minute ordeal. If I have the lag crash (All other characters are holding still) I just ALT F4 out and relog back in. The longest queue I have been in was literally 6 seconds. Maybe I am just lucky.

If you're closing the game through task manager you should be able to get back into Cyrodiil as though the game crashed itself and gives you a small window to re-log without going through queue again. With the memory leak going on I just run task manager on my second window, when I see eso get to 3-ish gigs I just quit it when safe to do so and quickly relog. It's a pain but better than the inevitable crash during a fight.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]