Why is there no "Mortal" Skill Tree?

Raeder

I've been wondering this for awhile, seeing as at various times the Vampire skill line has been overwhelming with a number of different builds (and Werewolf still sucks).

So why isn't there a skill line that all players get as long as they are not a Vampire or Werewolf?

Clearly in PvP, in a lot of situations Vampires have an advantage in survivability, damage, stealth speed, etc. The fire damage vulnerability isn't cutting it because of the fire resist enchants and the damage shields/sword and board that most vampires run.

Try laying down an AOE like NB Refreshing Path on a vampire and see how many absorb messages you get.

It's the only way I see to balance them, as clearly ZOS isn't going to lock vampires out of the Dark Brotherhood or the Thieve's Guild (and the passives from those guilds will make them even more powerful than us mere mortals). That is, balance them without nerfing the line.

Or does ZOS expect everyone to roll a vampire or werewolf?

Komma

Hm, never really thought about it but I totally agree.

Honfold

There is! Not taking extra fire damage and not having a skill line dedicated to killing you are two of the passives I believe.

Raeder

Honfold wrote: »

There is! Not taking extra fire damage and not having a skill line dedicated to killing you are two of the passives I believe.

If you've played PvP against VR12s, you'd know that most Vampires (DKs and Sorcs mostly) stack defenses and use Sword and Board. This completely negates the fire damage vulnerability. Add in things like Annulment and the Resto staff wards plus the native damage reduction of the Vampire line itself, and you get targets that are extremely hard to kill compared to a mortal player that doesn't have access to the skill line.

Tintinabula

also another Big passive in that Human skill line is health regeneration..its uber nice.

Raeder

Tintinabula wrote: »

also another Big passive in that Human skill line is health regeneration..its uber nice.

In PvP, health regeneration isn't that powerful of a stat because most damage happens in such a short period of time, so I fail to see it as a downside. And it is really mitigated by the damage resists and Magicka and Stamina recovery.

shiva7663

As part of the curses of vampirism and lycanthropy, have those characters not be eligible for any Mundus stone buffs.

Honfold

My comment was more of a joke than anything else. Seriously though, I think ZOS had the intention of people using the fighters guild tree to combat vampires, and this is a BIG negative for vampires when used. However, it appears that many players do not want to give up a skill slot for an anti-undead spell. Now we can blame the players or ZOS, but the reality is that since many players do not use silver bolts or anything from fighters guild skill tree in Cyrodiil the "BIG" drawback for vampires does not practically exist.

Tintinabula

Uhm Im regularly taken out of the fight by a silver bolts that hits a human for 200 and me for 1300+ so yea...There ARE drawbacks... If im hit once with a fire ballista I feel it.

WraithAzraiel

Fighter's Guild skill line = mortal skill line

Nox_Aeterna

Im all for it , just make sure "mortals" come with a pack of problems just like vampires do.

The balance of both the vampire and WW lines comes from their problems , you want them? Accept the issues they have also , that simple. 50% fire vun is HUGE in this game.

All other skill trees dont add problems , thus the reason both of these lines should at all times be awesome in comparison to any other.

You dont get a free skill tree with 0 issues because you decided to not become either lols.

Maulkin

I was thinking maybe Vamps should be locked out of the Fighters guild lines. Then I realised in TESV pretty much the entire guild (Companions) were werewolves

Turelus

Racial lines. Although these could be expanded with passives which everyone shares.

Raeder

Tintinabula wrote: »

Uhm Im regularly taken out of the fight by a silver bolts that hits a human for 200 and me for 1300+ so yea...There ARE drawbacks... If im hit once with a fire ballista I feel it.

I don't doubt that Fighters Guild abilities can hit hard, but in PvP, most Vampires are blocking most of the time, and have over 3300 health (which even with the 5% chance to banish, doesn't fully kill a vampire). So if you're blocking, which these guys are doing most of the time, it negates that.

I'd say if you're having trouble, you're not using one of the builds that, when combined with the Vampire line, becomes overpowered in PvP.

eventide03b14a_ESO

So the OP can't kill vampires in PvP so he want's some self entitled buffs that those pesky vamps can't get? Just want to make sure I have this summed up correctly. People honestly think that moving a little faster in stealth and a slight bonus to magicka and stamina regen (neither as good as similar racial regens BTW) makes them OP? Do you realize how much fire based damage is in this game? Even if you try to negate some of that with jewelry enchants you are giving up stamina or magicka regen which far exceeds the bonus you get from the vamp line passives. There is a trade off and if you are getting it handed to you from vamps in PvP it's only because they are out maneuvering you and playing more tactically. The entire fighter's guild line is designed specifically to kill undead. No, I'm sorry you don't need another exclusive skill line, you need to learn how to use the ones you have.

Raeder

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

So the OP can't kill vampires in PvP so he want's some self entitled buffs that those pesky vamps can't get? Just want to make sure I have this summed up correctly. People honestly think that moving a little faster in stealth and a slight bonus to magicka and stamina regen (neither as good as similar racial regens BTW) makes them OP? Do you realize how much fire based damage is in this game? Even if you try to negate some of that with jewelry enchants you are giving up stamina or magicka regen which far exceeds the bonus you get from the vamp line passives. There is a trade off and if you are getting it handed to you from vamps in PvP it's only because they are out maneuvering you and playing more tactically. The entire fighter's guild line is designed specifically to kill undead. No, I'm sorry you don't need another exclusive skill line, you need to learn how to use the ones you have.

This person has obviously never PvPed against any of the decent vampires in Cyrodiil. It isn't the Vampire line per say, but other skill lines added with it.

You completely ignore the fact that most Vampires are using Sword and Board and damage shields, which makes your argument worthless.

Beerbill

If you can't defeat them join them... become a vampire yourself, I would gladly bite you
(°v—v°)

Raeder

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Fighter's Guild skill line = mortal skill line

Not really. Anyone can pick up the Fighters Guild abilities at any time, regardless of whether or not they are a Vampire.