ESO and the future... my two cents

HurlinMerlin

I still can't quite wrap my head around where the idea for the current state of the game came from.

As best as I can tell,,, it appears that the developers started with the end game and worked their way backwards to the start of the game. While it seems to make sense at first, it just isn't working as intended. Levels 1-50 are probably the easiest levels anyone will ever play in an MMORPG. Doesn't take very much skill what so ever, I am sure hard core people can level to the max base level of 50 in a matter of days.

The problem is, MMORPG's are designed to last for years. This game was designed from the start with the end point being the major focus....never taking in consideration even trying to slow down the rate at which people can get to the "end point".

This results in a mass of people reaching the end game, finishing their veteran content aka "present end game material" on multiple characters in no time at all. Now the problem lies with the fact you have numerous people screaming about end game content or there being nothing to do for a maxed out veteran 50 and the developers will have no choice but to cater to those crying the loudest.

The simplicity of levels 1-50 has created a nightmare back log of people already at the end game stage just a mere few months after release...any preplanned releases of expansion packs to give maxed out players new levels and content will have to be rolled out faster than the long term plan developers had envisioned because it's just too dang easy to hit level 50.

All I can say is that ESO has the best graphics of any MMORPG out there, but unfortunately pretty scenery does not make a good game by itself. And this is ESO biggest flaw as I see it..... a game that is absolutely beautiful to look at, but no real challenge in playing.

This may be a real awesome game in a few years, but right now, it isn't. Players will get bored easily, they always do, and they will start to leave in droves for the "next" challenge.

Personally I think the beginning and mid content is just too dumbified to keep a strong player base in the long term. In a few more months, if not already, you will have players with 6-8 maxed out characters and class differences won't matter anymore because you can just log on whichever of your maxed out characters happens to be the flavor for that month.

Once an MMORPG starts focusing on the end game players and never tries to improve the beginning and mid term areas to reach end game... then that slow downward spiral begins... less new players and more frustrated end game people leaving.

Focusing on PVP as the major end game content may very well be a fatal flaw. There are many people, myself included, that just do not find PVP all that appealing...as a matter of fact I avoid it as much as I can in any game I play.

Time will tell, it always does.

Just my two cents.

This in no way is intended to be a flame against ESO...I am just calling it as I see it.

Artis

Idk, I've been playing since early access. Still not even VR10. I do all the quests and basically just paint my POIs white.
No one forces you to grind your levels fast and then complain that there is nothing to do.

HurlinMerlin

Wasn't talking about me grinding fast.

indytims_ESO

Totally agree with the OP. The PVE part of this game is entirely too easy. There are a few exceptions (very few), but for the most part, players can coast through the content fairly quickly.

Of course, those folks who leveled to 50 within a week or so of launch are not representative of the 'whole'. They have the time, skill, and determination to do what they did, while most people didn't/don't. To me, when -any- player can reach max level within a week or two of launch, that's indicative of bad game design and does not bode well for retention.

Most MMO's have had to deal with this process: players play, reach max level, get bored, quit. Devs can not generate new content quickly enough.

Of course, if they put a max of '1 level a day' advancement in the game mechanics, there would be a percentage of the population that would be arguing the reverse - the game is too SLOW.

Regardless, it's something that most MMO companies have to wrangle with, and it's apparently very difficult to come up with an answer that pleases everyone.

SirenofEntropy

If you look to Guild Wars as an example, that game had a level cap of 20 and it was incredibly easy to reach max level in one day. With that game, they wanted it to be about the content and experience more than about the leveling. That game stayed very popular for several years. People didn't get bored simply because they hit the max level because there was still so much to do.

As long as ESO continues to add content for post-level 50, people won't get bored all that quickly. Of course, there's always going to be that percentage of people who are never satisfied and are always bored, but they're unlikely to hang onto those players anyway.

If they make leveling from 1-50 a huge grind people will just complain about that too, because for every person who takes their time leveling up and tries to experience all the quests and content, there's another person who rushes to Vet ranks as fast as they can because they want to do PVP or Vet dungeons. It's difficult to find exactly the right line between challenge and grind. An MMO is going to have a very varied player base, and not everyone wants the game to be so ridiculously difficult that only niche builds will serve to get you through the game. It takes away freedom to play how you want if you're going to constantly be dying unless you run a very specific skill set. Going back to my example of Guild Wars - a couple years into the game they added a Hard Mode setting to appease the "it's too easy" crowd, and Hard Mode was fun but ended up requiring a cookie-cutter build setup in order to not get splattered.

If they want to give 1-50 players more things to do, a better solution in my opinion would be rather than increasing the difficultly of leveling, simply add more non-vet zones to explore and quest in. There's still plenty of room on the Tamriel map to expand.

Troponin

SirenofEntropy wrote: »

If you look to Guild Wars as an example, that game had a level cap of 20 and it was incredibly easy to reach max level in one day. With that game, they wanted it to be about the content and experience more than about the leveling. That game stayed very popular for several years. People didn't get bored simply because they hit the max level because there was still so much to do.

I distinctly remember that 1-20 NOT being easy though. It wasn't really long, but the content was far from easy. Many players might say it was too difficult.

I think I understand what the devs were trying to do. They wanted to satisfy the majority of players with faster leveling from 1-50, then wanted to create that more difficult and slower grind in VR content. The problem with that was, players still bitched VR content was too difficult.

You have to understand, people wanting a slower, more difficult grind (I just call it that for simplicity) are the minority. Anytime a game has "end game" material, there will always be a race to the end to get geared up and see it. There are only a few games I have played that were otherwise. For instance, Rappelz. It was not intended for players to hit max level without insane amounts of mind numbing grinding. Max level was 140, and someone once did the calculations to show that you weren't even halfway to level 140 until you hit level 130. One hour of top notch, balls to the wall, grinding with experience pots would get you .1% of a level.

Anyway, I digress. You get my point. Those games are a niche. Fast and easy leveling are the most successful games.

Ninnghizhidda

I have also been in several MMOs, and classic Asian "grinders", and I can tell you that ESO leveling and relevant areas (mainly for levels 1-50) is not that easy or fast. "Easy" is not a well defined term anyways.

What exactly we mean easy? For example, in ESO there is no real way of "power leveling". No matter what, you have to go through the areas, do the quests and so on. Always talking about the "normal" or "entry level" content (1-50), not about VR content, which, especially in the past, has been heavily exploited.

People can reach high levels, sure, but they do need to put in many hours of game play. If you can be on 24/7, with some awesome party buddies, with awesome gear, and focus on exp gaining only, yes it can be done fairly fast.

Fast leveling can likewise be done in many other games too. I have been playing, for example, Tera since pre-launch and it has always been a fairly simple process there to reach lvl 60. It is even easier these days too. You can do it in the minimum amount of time, or you can take longer, depends on play style, but the whole "leveling content" is not by any means "hard".

Most MMOs inevitably focus on "end game", because this is where most players will end up spending most of their time, eventually. The major difference I can see in ESO, is this. ESO doesn't have any real "gear grind".

"Gear grind", in many MMOs, is what the "end game" really is, meaning you do run after run, in this dungeon, or in a combination of dungeons and other places, to acquire your new set, aim for the next hot set of gear, hunt the materials required for that uber crafted piece of gear, and so on.

in ESO, with its great crafting system, you do not really need to "grind a dungeon" 500 times. You have the option, and an awesome one, to invest in crafting professions, acquire materials, and create some of the best, if not the best, gear in the game.

In the meantime, you can always be "immersed" in the fantastic Elder Scrolls world of Tamriel. In that department, ESO truly excels.

The "eternal chase" for "new end game content" is futile, because there can never be enough. Unless it is a "gear grind", people will go through it many times faster than any dev team can produce, and ultimately get bored with it.

I suspect certain people complaining there is "nothing to do in ESO, rushed their way to the very top, ignoring most of the other content the game has to offer. Since there is no real "gear grind", there is little to do, apart from Trials perhaps, and, of course, the PvP stuff in Cyro, for those into it.

More content will come, I am sure, but, personally, I would not like to see ESO turn into yet another "gear grind" focused game, just to prolong the artificial interest into "end game" until the next level cap raise / new dungeon / new gear sets pop up.

And again, I am personally OK, with the "pre end game" content, especially the lvl 1-50 areas, and also the "new nerfed" VR levels (hah), and would not like to see them become "hard" again to artificially prolong the leveling process (and instead making it frustrating and unattractive). You can still literally spend months going through it, it all depends on what one's play style and goal is.

nicholaspingasb16_ESO

Yep. Every death I have is from my abilities not registering or their abilities not registering, or a data load error, or crash, or a complete 3-5 second freeze. That says something. Or complete ability lockout, where I have to sit there holding down the block button praying to Akatosh that someone will see me and help.

SirenofEntropy

@Ninnghizhidda I completely agree with everything you said. I would hate to see ESO turn into a gear-grind because those types of MMOs just don't hold my interest. The way I see it, that type of game only really appeals to people who love to grind for hours to get the newest gear so they can be the first to have it and show off.

I hate grind and extreme repetition in games. I don't want to, as you said, run a dungeon 500 times just to have some small chance at obtaining an elite weapon or piece of armor. I have a hard time understanding why some people find that type of gameplay attractive. Sure, it's nice to have a challenge and something to work towards, but it shouldn't be some nigh-unobtainable item that requires an absurd amount of time invested to even have a chance at getting it. Right now I like the way that ESO has Achievements, some with attached titles or dye colors, because they give the player something to work towards but aren't really grindy to the point of not wanting to bother (besides some of the high-rank pvp titles, that is). It would be nice to have dungeon rewards slightly improved only so that there is some point in doing them more than once, as long as those rewards didn't come with a ridiculously small chance at ever obtaining them.

I don't see any problem with ESO focusing on end-game since there is already a good amount of stuff to do from 1-50. As you said eventually everyone will end up in end game so they do need to continuously provide new content to keep people's interest. That content though should keep with their already ongoing theme of questing and exploration, rather than turning into a grind-fest for gear.

Also, like you, I don't want this game to be difficult to the point of absurdity. It becomes more frustrating than fun if you are dying every few minutes or can't complete quests without being in a group. Players who don't want to run cookie cutter builds shouldn't be punished for it. The people who think the game is too easy are usually the type that find the most overpowered gear set and skill build as quickly as they can. If someone thinks the game's too easy, they should try a less powerful skill combo, or a different gear setup, I guarantee they'd suddenly find the game a good bit more challenging.

Raash

I think that a huge part of the problem is that there are no really really rare gear or items. Without stuff to hunt for people end up with very little to do but waiting for the bigger content updates.

CapuchinSeven

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

Yep. Every death I have is from my abilities not registering or their abilities not registering, or a data load error, or crash, or a complete 3-5 second freeze. That says something. Or complete ability lockout, where I have to sit there holding down the block button praying to Akatosh that someone will see me and help.

I'd say all my PVE deaths outside of group dungeons has been this way as well.

Troponin

Abilities/skills not registering has been my biggest frustration in this game. It does not appear to be a lag issue on my end either. Nothing is more awesome than running in to a group of enemies, you try and cast your first spell and nothing happens, then you try to cast the second, and still nothing happens. By this time, if you're not already dead, you're damn close.

Anastasia

HurlinMerlin wrote: »

I still can't quite wrap my head around where the idea for the current state of the game came from.

As best as I can tell,,, it appears that the developers started with the end game and worked their way backwards to the start of the game. While it seems to make sense at first, it just isn't working as intended. Levels 1-50 are probably the easiest levels anyone will ever play in an MMORPG. Doesn't take very much skill what so ever, I am sure hard core people can level to the max base level of 50 in a matter of days.

The problem is, MMORPG's are designed to last for years. This game was designed from the start with the end point being the major focus....never taking in consideration even trying to slow down the rate at which people can get to the "end point".

This results in a mass of people reaching the end game, finishing their veteran content aka "present end game material" on multiple characters in no time at all. Now the problem lies with the fact you have numerous people screaming about end game content or there being nothing to do for a maxed out veteran 50 and the developers will have no choice but to cater to those crying the loudest.

The simplicity of levels 1-50 has created a nightmare back log of people already at the end game stage just a mere few months after release...any preplanned releases of expansion packs to give maxed out players new levels and content will have to be rolled out faster than the long term plan developers had envisioned because it's just too dang easy to hit level 50.

All I can say is that ESO has the best graphics of any MMORPG out there, but unfortunately pretty scenery does not make a good game by itself. And this is ESO biggest flaw as I see it..... a game that is absolutely beautiful to look at, but no real challenge in playing.

This may be a real awesome game in a few years, but right now, it isn't. Players will get bored easily, they always do, and they will start to leave in droves for the "next" challenge.

Personally I think the beginning and mid content is just too dumbified to keep a strong player base in the long term. In a few more months, if not already, you will have players with 6-8 maxed out characters and class differences won't matter anymore because you can just log on whichever of your maxed out characters happens to be the flavor for that month.

Once an MMORPG starts focusing on the end game players and never tries to improve the beginning and mid term areas to reach end game... then that slow downward spiral begins... less new players and more frustrated end game people leaving.

Focusing on PVP as the major end game content may very well be a fatal flaw. There are many people, myself included, that just do not find PVP all that appealing...as a matter of fact I avoid it as much as I can in any game I play.

Time will tell, it always does.

Just my two cents.

This in no way is intended to be a flame against ESO...I am just calling it as I see it.

---

Such an insightful share here Hurlin, sorta sad still.

"...never taking in consideration even trying to slow down the rate at which people can get to the "end point". Or, providing regular training content for those PvEr's who plan to go on to endgame but arrive there at a literal deficit in experience, know how, gear and relativity to their importance inside groupage at endgame.

****THIS is why I was confounded when they Nerfed Vet+ content, INSTEAD of activating ways of motivating people (*ie better group e x p, better loot etc) to GROUP regularly and having a good-sized chunk of content to look forward to as their character progresses on to PvE endgame. AND why not put in options/grind spots that are specifically for farming e x p for PvP folk who literally just have a main goal of getting their characters to V12 for reasons pertaining to PvP? (*Err or more e x p IN PvP to level up with ^-^).

This game is like a certain North American country: its middle class is being diluted economically and it is growing ever more irrelevant. The consequences of lack of attention to that issue though has important consequences to both of the other two spheres people live in. ;o(

Troponin

I viewed vet content as end game. I am not sure if Zmax didn't sell that idea well enough, because I find it amusing that so many people said it was too difficult, then complained they got to vet 5+ too fast. It's like saying "I want a challenge, but make it easy".

There are some issues with classes that made veteran content more difficult than with others, but that is a class issue, not a content issue.

When I hit VR1 post nerf, I actually didn't feel an increase of difficulty at all. It felt almost the same, save for a couple boss type mobs. Otherwise, I was killing groups of level V3 mobs on my VR1 without issues.

martinhpb16_ESO

Ha Ha try playing Lotro and then you see easymode. The devs nerfed Lotro into a walkthrough.

I found the difficulty level in ESo of 1-50 to be about right.

Vet was better before the nerf but its still ok because tbh it goes on way too long anyway.

lycrates

Leveling will always take only a month or two to complete. MMORPGs SHOULD NOT revolve around leveling if they want to have any longevity.

I would argue with you that what is keeping ESO back is:

1) not enough (or enough variety in) Endgame PvE content
2) only one mode of PvP which not everyone likes
3) it does not have a polished LFG tool (spamming chat is not cool)
4) it does not have a working economy due to the lack of an AH

Fixing those things would make ESO the most popular MMORPG in NA. I am 100% certain of that.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Anastasia wrote: »

HurlinMerlin wrote: »

I still can't quite wrap my head around where the idea for the current state of the game came from.

As best as I can tell,,, it appears that the developers started with the end game and worked their way backwards to the start of the game. While it seems to make sense at first, it just isn't working as intended. Levels 1-50 are probably the easiest levels anyone will ever play in an MMORPG. Doesn't take very much skill what so ever, I am sure hard core people can level to the max base level of 50 in a matter of days.

The problem is, MMORPG's are designed to last for years. This game was designed from the start with the end point being the major focus....never taking in consideration even trying to slow down the rate at which people can get to the "end point".

This results in a mass of people reaching the end game, finishing their veteran content aka "present end game material" on multiple characters in no time at all. Now the problem lies with the fact you have numerous people screaming about end game content or there being nothing to do for a maxed out veteran 50 and the developers will have no choice but to cater to those crying the loudest.

The simplicity of levels 1-50 has created a nightmare back log of people already at the end game stage just a mere few months after release...any preplanned releases of expansion packs to give maxed out players new levels and content will have to be rolled out faster than the long term plan developers had envisioned because it's just too dang easy to hit level 50.

All I can say is that ESO has the best graphics of any MMORPG out there, but unfortunately pretty scenery does not make a good game by itself. And this is ESO biggest flaw as I see it..... a game that is absolutely beautiful to look at, but no real challenge in playing.

This may be a real awesome game in a few years, but right now, it isn't. Players will get bored easily, they always do, and they will start to leave in droves for the "next" challenge.

Personally I think the beginning and mid content is just too dumbified to keep a strong player base in the long term. In a few more months, if not already, you will have players with 6-8 maxed out characters and class differences won't matter anymore because you can just log on whichever of your maxed out characters happens to be the flavor for that month.

Once an MMORPG starts focusing on the end game players and never tries to improve the beginning and mid term areas to reach end game... then that slow downward spiral begins... less new players and more frustrated end game people leaving.

Focusing on PVP as the major end game content may very well be a fatal flaw. There are many people, myself included, that just do not find PVP all that appealing...as a matter of fact I avoid it as much as I can in any game I play.

Time will tell, it always does.

Just my two cents.

This in no way is intended to be a flame against ESO...I am just calling it as I see it.

---

Such an insightful share here Hurlin, sorta sad still.

"...never taking in consideration even trying to slow down the rate at which people can get to the "end point". Or, providing regular training content for those PvEr's who plan to go on to endgame but arrive there at a literal deficit in experience, know how, gear and relativity to their importance inside groupage at endgame.

****THIS is why I was confounded when they Nerfed Vet+ content, INSTEAD of activating ways of motivating people (*ie better group e x p, better loot etc) to GROUP regularly and having a good-sized chunk of content to look forward to as their character progresses on to PvE endgame. AND why not put in options/grind spots that are specifically for farming e x p for PvP folk who literally just have a main goal of getting their characters to V12 for reasons pertaining to PvP? (*Err or more e x p IN PvP to level up with ^-^).

This game is like a certain North American country: its middle class is being diluted economically and it is growing ever more irrelevant. The consequences of lack of attention to that issue though has important consequences to both of the other two spheres people live in. ;o(

I don't think the state of the game has a parallel in the economic disparity of USA.

Tabbycat

I think what will help is when they revamp the Undaunted skill line and make dungeons scale to difficulty with your level. I believe there's also supposed to be some kind of hard mode. Special keys you collect for special treasure chests from the Undaunted. Stuff for the future.

Anyway, from what little I know, this seems like it's going to help keep you busy for a while. I'm sure more difficult and challenging stuff will be coming.

Wifeaggro13

Artemis wrote: »

Idk, I've been playing since early access. Still not even VR10. I do all the and basically just paint my POIs white.
No one forces you to grind your levels fast and then complain that there is nothing to do.

how in the world is 5 months post launch grinding lvls to fast.some people play daily an hour or two a day . with this play style anyone could be at end game a month ago melee spec or caster no matter the class.

Wifeaggro13

Anastasia wrote: »

HurlinMerlin wrote: »

I still can't quite wrap my head around where the idea for the current state of the game came from.

As best as I can tell,,, it appears that the developers started with the end game and worked their way backwards to the start of the game. While it seems to make sense at first, it just isn't working as intended. Levels 1-50 are probably the easiest levels anyone will ever play in an MMORPG. Doesn't take very much skill what so ever, I am sure hard core people can level to the max base level of 50 in a matter of days.

The problem is, MMORPG's are designed to last for years. This game was designed from the start with the end point being the major focus....never taking in consideration even trying to slow down the rate at which people can get to the "end point".

This results in a mass of people reaching the end game, finishing their veteran content aka "present end game material" on multiple characters in no time at all. Now the problem lies with the fact you have numerous people screaming about end game content or there being nothing to do for a maxed out veteran 50 and the developers will have no choice but to cater to those crying the loudest.

The simplicity of levels 1-50 has created a nightmare back log of people already at the end game stage just a mere few months after release...any preplanned releases of expansion packs to give maxed out players new levels and content will have to be rolled out faster than the long term plan developers had envisioned because it's just too dang easy to hit level 50.

All I can say is that ESO has the best graphics of any MMORPG out there, but unfortunately pretty scenery does not make a good game by itself. And this is ESO biggest flaw as I see it..... a game that is absolutely beautiful to look at, but no real challenge in playing.

This may be a real awesome game in a few years, but right now, it isn't. Players will get bored easily, they always do, and they will start to leave in droves for the "next" challenge.

Personally I think the beginning and mid content is just too dumbified to keep a strong player base in the long term. In a few more months, if not already, you will have players with 6-8 maxed out characters and class differences won't matter anymore because you can just log on whichever of your maxed out characters happens to be the flavor for that month.

Once an MMORPG starts focusing on the end game players and never tries to improve the beginning and mid term areas to reach end game... then that slow downward spiral begins... less new players and more frustrated end game people leaving.

Focusing on PVP as the major end game content may very well be a fatal flaw. There are many people, myself included, that just do not find PVP all that appealing...as a matter of fact I avoid it as much as I can in any game I play.

Time will tell, it always does.

Just my two cents.

This in no way is intended to be a flame against ESO...I am just calling it as I see it.

---

Such an insightful share here Hurlin, sorta sad still.

"...never taking in consideration even trying to slow down the rate at which people can get to the "end point". Or, providing regular training content for those PvEr's who plan to go on to endgame but arrive there at a literal deficit in experience, know how, gear and relativity to their importance inside groupage at endgame.

****THIS is why I was confounded when they Nerfed Vet+ content, INSTEAD of activating ways of motivating people (*ie better group e x p, better loot etc) to GROUP regularly and having a good-sized chunk of content to look forward to as their character progresses on to PvE endgame. AND why not put in options/grind spots that are specifically for farming e x p for PvP folk who literally just have a main goal of getting their characters to V12 for reasons pertaining to PvP? (*Err or more e x p IN PvP to level up with ^-^).

This game is like a certain North American country: its middle class is being diluted economically and it is growing ever more irrelevant. The consequences of lack of attention to that issue though has important consequences to both of the other two spheres people live in. ;o(

Yes they actually discouraged it. And in a major way they reduced EXP from dungeons forcing people into a solo centric style game play. compounding it further with frequent story phasing making it more stream lined to solo the content. Even the itemization rewards this crazy game design . its more rewarding to stand at a crafting location for 90 seconds then accomplish the hardest content in game. In all honesty the game needs a major overhaul, i would not be suprised if they pull an Age of conan, replace the game director re itemize and redirect the end game activites.

This team is attached to concepts that actually decrease the longevity of their game.7

Anastasia

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Anastasia wrote: »

HurlinMerlin wrote: »

I still can't quite wrap my head around where the idea for the current state of the game came from.

As best as I can tell,,, it appears that the developers started with the end game and worked their way backwards to the start of the game. While it seems to make sense at first, it just isn't working as intended. Levels 1-50 are probably the easiest levels anyone will ever play in an MMORPG. Doesn't take very much skill what so ever, I am sure hard core people can level to the max base level of 50 in a matter of days.

The problem is, MMORPG's are designed to last for years. This game was designed from the start with the end point being the major focus....never taking in consideration even trying to slow down the rate at which people can get to the "end point".

This results in a mass of people reaching the end game, finishing their veteran content aka "present end game material" on multiple characters in no time at all. Now the problem lies with the fact you have numerous people screaming about end game content or there being nothing to do for a maxed out veteran 50 and the developers will have no choice but to cater to those crying the loudest.

The simplicity of levels 1-50 has created a nightmare back log of people already at the end game stage just a mere few months after release...any preplanned releases of expansion packs to give maxed out players new levels and content will have to be rolled out faster than the long term plan developers had envisioned because it's just too dang easy to hit level 50.

All I can say is that ESO has the best graphics of any MMORPG out there, but unfortunately pretty scenery does not make a good game by itself. And this is ESO biggest flaw as I see it..... a game that is absolutely beautiful to look at, but no real challenge in playing.

This may be a real awesome game in a few years, but right now, it isn't. Players will get bored easily, they always do, and they will start to leave in droves for the "next" challenge.

Personally I think the beginning and mid content is just too dumbified to keep a strong player base in the long term. In a few more months, if not already, you will have players with 6-8 maxed out characters and class differences won't matter anymore because you can just log on whichever of your maxed out characters happens to be the flavor for that month.

Once an MMORPG starts focusing on the end game players and never tries to improve the beginning and mid term areas to reach end game... then that slow downward spiral begins... less new players and more frustrated end game people leaving.

Focusing on PVP as the major end game content may very well be a fatal flaw. There are many people, myself included, that just do not find PVP all that appealing...as a matter of fact I avoid it as much as I can in any game I play.

Time will tell, it always does.

Just my two cents.

This in no way is intended to be a flame against ESO...I am just calling it as I see it.

---

Such an insightful share here Hurlin, sorta sad still.

"...never taking in consideration even trying to slow down the rate at which people can get to the "end point". Or, providing regular training content for those PvEr's who plan to go on to endgame but arrive there at a literal deficit in experience, know how, gear and relativity to their importance inside groupage at endgame.

****THIS is why I was confounded when they Nerfed Vet+ content, INSTEAD of activating ways of motivating people (*ie better group e x p, better loot etc) to GROUP regularly and having a good-sized chunk of content to look forward to as their character progresses on to PvE endgame. AND why not put in options/grind spots that are specifically for farming e x p for PvP folk who literally just have a main goal of getting their characters to V12 for reasons pertaining to PvP? (*Err or more e x p IN PvP to level up with ^-^).

This game is like a certain North American country: its middle class is being diluted economically and it is growing ever more irrelevant. The consequences of lack of attention to that issue though has important consequences to both of the other two spheres people live in. ;o(

I don't think the state of the game has a parallel in the economic disparity of USA.

---

Eh, a bit melodramatic I guess I agree. But the PvE 'middle' disintegrating or missing is not far off in describing this game.

Sabin1269

I still don't get why everyone is bashing on VR's like the OP did. " Now the problem lies with the fact you have numerous people screaming about end game content or there being nothing to do for a maxed out veteran 50 and the developers will have no choice but to cater to those crying the loudest.". I don't care for the content that was given to us after 50 when most people defeated the main story and their factions quest line. After finishing those I was presented with 2 choices, put your loyalty to your faction aside, the same faction you choose to fight for and defeat Molag Bal with, and grind the other factions quest lines just at VR levels now. Second choice? Be forced to group for any quest or dungeons in Cyrodill or don't bother playing them at all. I for one can not stand PvP and being forced to group. The only time I do is to clear a map or on a few of the quest that I had trouble with at very low levels. No everyone like PvP and it stinks that there are plenty of skill points and achievements locked behind the walls of Cyrodill that solo centric players despise.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Sabin1269 wrote: »

I still don't get why everyone is bashing on VR's like the OP did. " Now the problem lies with the fact you have numerous people screaming about end game content or there being nothing to do for a maxed out veteran 50 and the developers will have no choice but to cater to those crying the loudest.". I don't care for the content that was given to us after 50 when most people defeated the main story and their factions quest line. After finishing those I was presented with 2 choices, put your loyalty to your faction aside, the same faction you choose to fight for and defeat Molag Bal with, and grind the other factions quest lines just at VR levels now. Second choice? Be forced to group for any quest or dungeons in Cyrodill or don't bother playing them at all. I for one can not stand PvP and being forced to group. The only time I do is to clear a map or on a few of the quest that I had trouble with at very low levels. No everyone like PvP and it stinks that there are plenty of skill points and achievements locked behind the walls of Cyrodill that solo centric players despise.

A lot of people don't like pve but there are way more skillpoints and achievements locked behind that.

Personally I like most of the features of the game so it is all fun for me. But just because you don't like certain content does not mean the rewards should be available to you without having to wade through that content.

As I mentioned in another post, every pvper out there had to grind through pve content to be viable in pvp.

Royalroacho

I think someone mentioned that having a beautiful game world doesnt compensate for having a lack of content. Maybe they meant beautiful in a graphical sense, but Im thinking that this was this was part of what they went for. The complexity of the world is a big part of the content. Its not the most challenging game ive played, I could probably blow through it really fast if I wanted to, and feel pretty unsatisfied. i think Its there though, Its in books and thousands of hours of npc dialogue. Granted, not everyone's into that. But they did put alot of effort into it. Ive been trying to make the most of it, and enjoying myself. Been playing for a month and just hit level 40.
Also, I think the term "my 2 cents" needs to be scaled for inflation