Werewolf - Overhaul (I have to be that guy)

Tendeep

After making my first two characters Werewolves, and just now making an alt (lvl43 atm) a Vampire, I have to say - WOW What a huge shaft Werewolves get!
-
So... when is this expected WW over haul coming? We are months deep in one of the worst skill lines in the game, and it has been ignored for a long while now.

The Vamp skills are ridiculous, benefit the player in every way (just pop Fire resist buffs) increase stealth speed, increase magic and stam, damage mitigation, all on, all the time. They get BATS - FFS this skill in either morph is ridiculous. They get Drain, great CC and great heal/stam regen.

WW get jack *** for passives, and our only ability worth anything is the actual transformation, and the ultimate cost is nonsense. All other buffs apply while in form, and that has a limited timer. I have BATS down to a 128 Ultimate without trying, and WW gets down to near 700.

Seriously I know everyone thinks this is low on the list, but the fact that it has been ignored for so long is sad...


Please ZOS you are WW only hope. Lets jump on this issue, tackle it to the ground, tear its face off, and it eat for dinner!

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

Why isn't Werewolf form a toggle like the sorc's conjuration skills?

Skafsgaard

I levelled my main (Altmer Templar) as a good guy healer type. Now my alt khajiit NB was made with vamp in mind at least for try out. This was after finding out the entire issues between WW and vamp - and I think neither should be a 'must have' like maybe vamp is now for certain dunmer DK builds or used to be. Dont get me wrong I like it's in there and belongs to be in there and I would like to see it evened out as much as class and mag vs stam.

Just in here to say I hear you man and feel your pain. I even think they could expand on the whole ww/vamp thing with the justice system and make it like a faction thing with guard vs thieves and ww vs vamp and that would require balancing.

Another thing that i have pondered is introduce some new mechanics to skill bars - which would be perfectly demonstrated with a WW skill line in mind. Like an active toggle for an ult, that would change your skill bar into something predefined - and make the toggle take let's 15 secs (like he has to howl and stuff), which is similar in that a vamp also has to feed - it puts RP into the skill lines and also some options mixed in. The toggle would also had to be 15 (or x sec depending on y) in order for it not to be too OP with 3 skill bars available. Just a quick idea that I thought could be a lot of fun for the player and add more dynamic mechanics in the way different stuff works not just x active and morph and y passive but something a little more interesting.

More power to the Hounds!

Lord_Draevan

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't Werewolf form a toggle like the sorc's conjuration skills?

^This. Maybe their Ultimate could instead be 15 second damage boost or something along those lines? But currently, werewolf is very weak and not cost effective at all.

Tremulous

WW form should be a spell like bound armor takes 10% off of max stam but provide a armor, hp, damage boost.

aka what miles said :P

c0rp

There is no ww overhaul...lol, lets not kid ourselves here. Its been known for 3 months now that ww are absolute ***. All that has changed was the ulti was lowered...what...down to....700 ulti? LMAO I dont even know anymore since I ditched it so long ago.

I saw a ww in Cyrodiil and I laughed my ass off so hard....he was running to a corpse that somebody else killed...he fed on it. About 5 seconds later he turned human. HAHAH, such fail.

UrQuan

My main is a WW. I really just consider it a fun cosmetic thing rather than something that gives me any benefits. If I cared more about being competitive I'd definitely go for vampire, but I refuse to do that with my main because I don't like the way being a vampire makes you look. Also, I spent most of my time in Skyrim being a werewolf, so it just feels right to be one in ESO. It's a tribute to my time as Harbinger of the Companions.

nvsg

Ive been a ww hanging in there since lvl20 im v12 now and I got to say I support this discussion. Its very sad yes and if the next ww patch doesn't atleast equal vamp I will go vamp just because there bat swarm and I love werewolfs but they just didn't do it right in eso

Tremulous

sigh swear this is the 30th time I've post this but....
Future of ESO Q&A

Werewolves are in need of updates. Are there changes in places for werewolves?

Nick: Yes, absolutely. There are two phases of changes. For starters, we are going to balance the ultimate – decrease cost, increase damage etc. In the second phase we are going to add in more active abilities.

http://dulfy.net/2014/07/18/eso-quakecon-the-future-of-eso-panel-notes/

Quakecon wasn't that long ago guys :P

Skafsgaard

I've only seen few rare WWs in cyrodiil (where I spend most of my time), on the other hand im swarmed by vamps constantly. Its not I dislike vamps swarm so much, just its ONLY that. Really miss being chased by a big bad wolf sometimes or spec right and pewpew with silverbolt/fighters guild.

Lord_Draevan

Tremulous wrote: »

sigh swear this is the 30th time I've post this but....
Future of ESO Q&A

Werewolves are in need of updates. Are there changes in places for werewolves?

Nick: Yes, absolutely. There are two phases of changes. For starters, we are going to balance the ultimate – decrease cost, increase damage etc. In the second phase we are going to add in more active abilities.

http://dulfy.net/2014/07/18/eso-quakecon-the-future-of-eso-panel-notes/

Quakecon wasn't that long ago guys :P

So decreased Ultimate cost, more damage, more abilities. Good, but what would help the most by far would be Werewolf Form as a toggle and not an Ultimate.

Tendeep

Tremulous wrote: »

sigh swear this is the 30th time I've post this but....
Future of ESO Q&A

Werewolves are in need of updates. Are there changes in places for werewolves?

Nick: Yes, absolutely. There are two phases of changes. For starters, we are going to balance the ultimate – decrease cost, increase damage etc. In the second phase we are going to add in more active abilities.

http://dulfy.net/2014/07/18/eso-quakecon-the-future-of-eso-panel-notes/

Quakecon wasn't that long ago guys :P

Sure, but WW have been broken for a long ass time before they finally admitted to it. Honestly, we have put up with getting the shaft and the OP Vamp skills long enough.

Probitas

Just fix if that WW is a toggle, no timer. On or off. Vamps are always vamps. WW benefits only happen when in WW form. Vamps always have theirs on. Why does that sound so wrong to me?

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Tendeep wrote: »

After making my first two characters Werewolves, and just now making an alt (lvl43 atm) a Vampire, I have to say - WOW What a huge shaft Werewolves get!
-
So... when is this expected WW over haul coming? We are months deep in one of the worst skill lines in the game, and it has been ignored for a long while now.

The Vamp skills are ridiculous, benefit the player in every way (just pop Fire resist buffs) increase stealth speed, increase magic and stam, damage mitigation, all on, all the time. They get BATS - FFS this skill in either morph is ridiculous. They get Drain, great CC and great heal/stam regen.

WW get jack *** for passives, and our only ability worth anything is the actual transformation, and the ultimate cost is nonsense. All other buffs apply while in form, and that has a limited timer. I have BATS down to a 128 Ultimate without trying, and WW gets down to near 700.

Seriously I know everyone thinks this is low on the list, but the fact that it has been ignored for so long is sad...


Please ZOS you are WW only hope. Lets jump on this issue, tackle it to the ground, tear its face off, and it eat for dinner!

I disagree with this. Werewolf transformation is also not useful.

I specced out of everything but devour and bloodmoon after learning bloodrage only counts if you have the werewolf ultimate up.

Also, you probably haven't had a chance to test, but to fix the multiple devour bug they added a rather long cooldown to the use of devour.

So technically they addressed werewolves. They nerfed them.

Preyfar

Totally agree the Werewolf form should be a toggle, with NO timer. Make feeding give a temporary, stackable buff (bloodlust). There's plenty of deterrents for Werewolves already in the Fighter's Guild. Silver Bolts exists aplenty.

There's a few simple buffs that would go a long way to improving it (buff health, stamina further). So many simple fixes that could improve it.

Chuggernaut

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't Werewolf form a toggle like the sorc's conjuration skills?

This is kind of what I've been requesting. Change ww ultimate to act like Sorcerer Overload ultimate, and change devour to a heal + small ultimate boost. That would make it wayyyyyy better!

OP - While I agree Vamp specials are nice, in ww form I slaughter enemies. What I found funny about the two is how much easier it is to become a Vampire over a Werewolf.

Taz

I think werewolves should be a toggle with a twist!

Basically you can turn into a WW at any time and doing so drains your ultimate but you'll never get kicked out of the form if the ultimate runs out. However, if you fight out of WW form, you gain ultimate, and if the ultimate hits the max, you "lose control" and are forced to transform until the ultimate timer runs out. (This would also pose delicious problems to work around once the Justice System is implemented and hopefully vampire feeding and werewolf shapeshifting are criminal acts.)

It captures the control aspect of lycanthropy in a unique way that makes werewolf an interesting play style. A bit like vampires have to feed to keep their humanity, werewolves have to transform and fight to keep theirs.

And then just change the 'add more time to werewolf' buffs, like devour, to give a slight health or health regen boost.

Also, a toggle is also a balancing weakness for werewolves- you can see them coming and know to switch to your silver bolts and poison abilities.

(And after all that is fixed, maybe we can run on all fours since that animation is pretty much already in with the double tap forward, aaaand werewolf faces are a bit odd, need moar wolf.. more fur on the hands and feet maybe, oh and making Berserkers black furred since the Packmaster in the werewolf quest already has that fur coloring making it something doable!)

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

rob.shzaub17_ESO wrote: »

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't Werewolf form a toggle like the sorc's conjuration skills?

This is kind of what I've been requesting. Change ww ultimate to act like Sorcerer Overload ultimate, and change devour to a heal + small ultimate boost. That would make it wayyyyyy better!

OP - While I agree Vamp specials are nice, in ww form I slaughter enemies. What I found funny about the two is how much easier it is to become a Vampire over a Werewolf.

you obviously don't use any sort of damage calculator or your current build just completely sucks.

You will always do more damage outside of werewolf form (and not sacrifice an ultimate slot) and in pvp bows won't destroy you. Any class with an even remotely effective build will lose dps and functionality when in werewolf.

ThoradinBloodfire

That is a great idea. would make it a lot of fun. Cant control it, lose it, transform. Maybe add that to full moons also. or around them. IDK.

Chuggernaut

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

rob.shzaub17_ESO wrote: »

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't Werewolf form a toggle like the sorc's conjuration skills?

This is kind of what I've been requesting. Change ww ultimate to act like Sorcerer Overload ultimate, and change devour to a heal + small ultimate boost. That would make it wayyyyyy better!

OP - While I agree Vamp specials are nice, in ww form I slaughter enemies. What I found funny about the two is how much easier it is to become a Vampire over a Werewolf.

you obviously don't use any sort of damage calculator or your current build just completely sucks.

You will always do more damage outside of werewolf form (and not sacrifice an ultimate slot) and in pvp bows won't destroy you. Any class with an even remotely effective build will lose dps and functionality when in werewolf.

So because I kick-a** in werewolf my build sucks???

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

rob.shzaub17_ESO wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

rob.shzaub17_ESO wrote: »

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

Why isn't Werewolf form a toggle like the sorc's conjuration skills?

This is kind of what I've been requesting. Change ww ultimate to act like Sorcerer Overload ultimate, and change devour to a heal + small ultimate boost. That would make it wayyyyyy better!

OP - While I agree Vamp specials are nice, in ww form I slaughter enemies. What I found funny about the two is how much easier it is to become a Vampire over a Werewolf.

you obviously don't use any sort of damage calculator or your current build just completely sucks.

You will always do more damage outside of werewolf form (and not sacrifice an ultimate slot) and in pvp bows won't destroy you. Any class with an even remotely effective build will lose dps and functionality when in werewolf.

So because I kick-a** in werewolf my build sucks???

yea pretty much. If you do your best work in werewolf, it's because you have a crap setup outside of it. You probably aren't are of how much more ass you can kick not being a werewolf.

I mean, werewolves didn't even have a dodgeroll until recently.

Chuggernaut

That's what roar is for. But seriously my Nord is no slouch outside of transformation. The improved speed, and heavy attack buffs along with the roar is pretty sweet.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

rob.shzaub17_ESO wrote: »

That's what roar is for. But seriously my Nord is no slouch outside of transformation. The improved speed, and heavy attack buffs along with the roar is pretty sweet.

how does roar help you dodgeroll out of something?

I am starting to wonder if perhaps you are just not familiar with all the mechanics of the game.

Chuggernaut

You'd roar in lieu of a dodge, and then kill your enemies, or you could leap away and skip the roar. It's all about timing.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

rob.shzaub17_ESO wrote: »

You'd roar in lieu of a dodge, and then kill your enemies, or you could leap away and skip the roar. It's all about timing.

okay so a DK charges you, knocking you to the ground, drops talons, and then drops banner.

You roar...

Maybe you swing a few times before dying and if the DK doesn't just GDB it off you get him a few percent down in health.

Pretty sure roar can be blocked either way.

Anyway, werewolves can dodgeroll now, but that right there was one example of how they were useless in combat.

they still are though.

Roar is not that incredible. I have a fear on my nightblade and it gets blocked most of the time. and if not the person just breaks free. Then what? How do you keep yourself going when they start throwing cc at you and dealing damage. You have zero mitigation or healing abilities (I think you can use potions) You have no ultimate to pop that might save you because you are using your ultimate. You are doing less damage than your primary class attacks would do so you can't even burn the enemy down quickly.

But wait, I did find a video of a werewolf in pvp, and how truly crazy they can get when they are unleashed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKem8B-3iuI

phaneub17_ESO

I'm curious why some of the Passives for Werewolf aren't at least 50/50 where you get half the effect while in Humanoid form and then get the full bonus while in Werewolf like for Pursuit and Savage Strength; Blood Rage should always be active. The Ultimate should be a toggle that drains Ultimate away while its active and doesn't revert you back not by a time limit, but when your Ultimate resource is depleted. In this case Call of the Pack would drain less Ultimate per tick.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm curious why some of the Passives for Werewolf aren't at least 50/50 where you get half the effect while in Humanoid form and then get the full bonus while in Werewolf like for Pursuit and Savage Strength; Blood Rage should always be active. The Ultimate should be a toggle that drains Ultimate away while its active and doesn't revert you back not by a time limit, but when your Ultimate resource is depleted. In this case Call of the Pack would drain less Ultimate per tick.

there just shouldn't even be pack abilities. I get the roleplay concept of it but how often are a pack of werewolves going to be running around in beastform and benefiting from these passives and morphs.

I guess if werewolves were as effective as vampires. But they are not effective at all.

The only times I have used werewolf was during the quest, to play with it in cyrodiil dungeons only to be sorely disappointed, and to level it up to 10 for that grey dye.

Raash

Yes please, buff the hell up werewolves. I rather have the whole tamriel full of em if it would make vampires less common. Vampires is the most lame, childish, stupid, cheap, funky, boring, low budget monster there is in the world to this date. in fact, even twillight vampires seems badass when compared to the ones in this game.
Seriously, bring WW to the top of the food chain where they belong! Buff Buff BUFF!!!

Chuggernaut

That video is great, but the I'm guessing (based on what looked like light/medium + staff) that the character isn't a stamina build. Regardless we have two different play styles and I enjoy my wolf in combat.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

rob.shzaub17_ESO wrote: »

That video is great, but the I'm guessing (based on what looked like light/medium + staff) that the character isn't a stamina build. Regardless we have two different play styles and I enjoy my wolf in combat.

you can play however you want but medium armor isn't going to matter. for one, you can stack stamina well enough with werewolf passives to hit the softcap (that is probably still true)

and none of that would have made him live through that. It's not like he ran out of stamina or wasn't doing enough damage. lol

If you have fun playing a werewolf, do it. But you are significantly less effective and should be aware of that, at least when posting in a thread like this. Claiming that you rip things apart as a werewolf is just ignorance of the damage you could be doing with any other skill line in the game.

That or you are bugged and werewolf works differently for you than everyone else.