Maintenance for the week of July 14:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – July 14
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – July 14
Weapons and Spell vs. Weapon Power, an idea to help the balance
xaade
✭✭✭
Unfortunately there's a balance between weapon and spell damages that makes the game contradict itself often.
My Idea at a glance
Under my solution below, everything would scale based on the resource. Stamina would mean WPower and WCrit. Magicka would mean SPower and SCrit. If an ability used both resources, the ability could draw from any stat. Weapons would provide both SPower and WPower, and would balance those stats based on their provided abilities.
The problems with the current system.
The current stat system is hard to predict. In some cases it doesn't make any sense. A crossbow is a weapon, it uses stamina, but scales on magic? Oh, right, it's not THE weapon I have equipped, but which way is more confusing?
In my mind, this creates an artificial limit. They can't control where abilities derive power, or the weapon would be useless/overpowered. They are free to choose whether an ability uses stamina/magicka and weapon/spell crit, because you don't get these from the base weapon (and any traits provide both).
This creates a rather unintuitive stat system. Sure you can say weapon abilities use WPower and everything else uses SPower. But then you have people scratching their heads on why crossbow can't use WPower. "But it uses Stamina, WTH?"
The current situation makes it hard for players to maximize their stats effectively if they prefer melee spells or stamina weapons. This is why we see stamina being undervalued, and I can guarantee you that with the current system stamina abilities are going to become this nasty see-saw / pendulum where it's OP one patch and weak sauce the next.
The reason? You can't balance a stat you only get from a weapon, with a stat that you get from everywhere BUT a weapon. Sure, there are a few spells that grant WPower, but that just makes it worse. Now you have spells powering WPower, but way fewer stamina options to power SPower. Why is this bad? Because now I can't be a stamina player that can use stamina to offset my lack of magicka.
Even worse. If they made staves spells or damage use spell power, then the staff would have to provide spell power, or the weapon power it provided would be pointless. You want weapon abilities to scale on the weapon.
So now we have this problem. You can't have a weapon ability scale using spell power, but now everything becomes inconsistent. You have to get weapon crit for melee spells, and you have to get spell power for non weapon "abilities" (meaning non spells, like the crossbow).
My Idea.
So, how would I change things to make more sense? I think I give a better reason than making more sense. How about making it easier to balance?
Stamina would mean WPower and WCrit. Magicka would mean SPower and SCrit.
I think it would be better for all weapons to provide weapon and spell power. Then scale back the spell power from gear, and add weapon power to gear.
So that NightBlade melee spell could use WCrit, but it would have to cost some Stamina as well as Magicka. The proportions don't matter, but the indication for behavior is the important part. This makes just as much sense as the ability scaling on WCrit. It takes melee prowess to push the magically created weapon. Therefore the ability uses some stamina, some magicka, and scales on WPower and WCrit, with some small SPower and SCrit scaling.
The Fighter's crossbow would use WPower and WCrit, except the bonus damage, which would use SPower and SCrit. The game would be predictable.
Then staves could provide MORE spell power than weapon power, melee weapons would be the inverse. Class "spells" could use a mix of both if they are melee, and stamina Fighter's abilities could use weapon power.
Want to be the strongest "mage", use a staff. Want to be a sword and board tank-mage, you'll do less magic damage, but you won't suffer greatly. Want to be a stamina only player, you can do that.
Now Zenimax is free to make class abilities that use WPower, and weapon abilities that use SPower.
And they can now make the game even more intuitive and consistent.
Edited by xaade on July 31, 2014 3:14AM My Idea at a glance
Under my solution below, everything would scale based on the resource. Stamina would mean WPower and WCrit. Magicka would mean SPower and SCrit. If an ability used both resources, the ability could draw from any stat. Weapons would provide both SPower and WPower, and would balance those stats based on their provided abilities.
The problems with the current system.
The current stat system is hard to predict. In some cases it doesn't make any sense. A crossbow is a weapon, it uses stamina, but scales on magic? Oh, right, it's not THE weapon I have equipped, but which way is more confusing?
In my mind, this creates an artificial limit. They can't control where abilities derive power, or the weapon would be useless/overpowered. They are free to choose whether an ability uses stamina/magicka and weapon/spell crit, because you don't get these from the base weapon (and any traits provide both).
This creates a rather unintuitive stat system. Sure you can say weapon abilities use WPower and everything else uses SPower. But then you have people scratching their heads on why crossbow can't use WPower. "But it uses Stamina, WTH?"
The current situation makes it hard for players to maximize their stats effectively if they prefer melee spells or stamina weapons. This is why we see stamina being undervalued, and I can guarantee you that with the current system stamina abilities are going to become this nasty see-saw / pendulum where it's OP one patch and weak sauce the next.
The reason? You can't balance a stat you only get from a weapon, with a stat that you get from everywhere BUT a weapon. Sure, there are a few spells that grant WPower, but that just makes it worse. Now you have spells powering WPower, but way fewer stamina options to power SPower. Why is this bad? Because now I can't be a stamina player that can use stamina to offset my lack of magicka.
Even worse. If they made staves spells or damage use spell power, then the staff would have to provide spell power, or the weapon power it provided would be pointless. You want weapon abilities to scale on the weapon.
So now we have this problem. You can't have a weapon ability scale using spell power, but now everything becomes inconsistent. You have to get weapon crit for melee spells, and you have to get spell power for non weapon "abilities" (meaning non spells, like the crossbow).
My Idea.
So, how would I change things to make more sense? I think I give a better reason than making more sense. How about making it easier to balance?
Stamina would mean WPower and WCrit. Magicka would mean SPower and SCrit.
I think it would be better for all weapons to provide weapon and spell power. Then scale back the spell power from gear, and add weapon power to gear.
So that NightBlade melee spell could use WCrit, but it would have to cost some Stamina as well as Magicka. The proportions don't matter, but the indication for behavior is the important part. This makes just as much sense as the ability scaling on WCrit. It takes melee prowess to push the magically created weapon. Therefore the ability uses some stamina, some magicka, and scales on WPower and WCrit, with some small SPower and SCrit scaling.
The Fighter's crossbow would use WPower and WCrit, except the bonus damage, which would use SPower and SCrit. The game would be predictable.
Then staves could provide MORE spell power than weapon power, melee weapons would be the inverse. Class "spells" could use a mix of both if they are melee, and stamina Fighter's abilities could use weapon power.
Want to be the strongest "mage", use a staff. Want to be a sword and board tank-mage, you'll do less magic damage, but you won't suffer greatly. Want to be a stamina only player, you can do that.
Now Zenimax is free to make class abilities that use WPower, and weapon abilities that use SPower.
And they can now make the game even more intuitive and consistent.
1
-
nvsg✭✭✭ya know I see what you mean but lol , I just want to know what weapon dmg does vs weapon power?0 -
xaade✭✭✭My understanding is that Weapon Damage comes from the equipment. Weapon Power is all forms of Weapon stat scaling. From spells, from effects, etc.0
-
I think they should get rid of weapon/spell damage/crit and just have damage and crit as singular values that scale of both stamina/magicka pools.
That would open up the game to be more "play as you want".0 -
Keron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Y U No Let It Reeeest!
Honestly. Since 1.6 we have a good system. Each resource has its sources and you have to decide which to use. Stop wanting to be equally good at everything at once. Decide.Edited by Keron on March 21, 2015 11:44PM1 -
xaade✭✭✭Y U No Let It Reeeest!
Honestly. Since 1.6 we have a good system. Each resource has its sources and you have to decide which to use. Stop wanting to be equally good at everything at once. Decide.Stamina would mean WPower and WCrit. Magicka would mean SPower and SCrit... I think it would be better for all weapons to provide weapon and spell power... The Fighter's crossbow would use WPower and WCrit, except the bonus damage, which would use SPower and SCrit. The game would be predictable... Now Zenimax is free to make class abilities that use WPower, and weapon abilities that use SPower.
This is what I meant to say. I predicted 1.6 changes almost 100%.
It's like, did someone at Zenimax read this post, or did they come up with the same idea as me simultaneously.
I mean, it's alright if you message me privately, I promise to keep the secret. I'm thrilled that my idea seems to work.
But seriously, anything to improve ESO's success.Edited by xaade on March 24, 2015 5:34AM0 -
Keron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Heh, I was really answering that guy who posted after you. Yeah, you were pretty spot on.0