Casual Players

Artemiisia

There always lots of talk about casual players, and that they would leave if things get to hard, like saying the Boss Dosiha, or veteran zones getting to hard as well.

Then they get nerfed so we all can look at them and they die.

Heres my Q
How do you ever complete any normal single player games that you play, its not like their content get nerfed?

Like Tombraider/Resident Evil/Silent hill or what ever you guys play

Dont get me wrong, I was also one of those that stopped playing the last two zones of veteran content, wanted though to complete it before nerf, but have been raiding trails to hard.

and its not a rant non what so ever, just curious to do people actually play other games and to the finish?

Max Payne 1 I loved this took like a week
Max Payne 2 disappointed took like 16 hours....

SirAndy

I think you're confused about the meaning of the term casual.
Casual does *not* mean unskilled. The two are not the same.

I'm a casual player and i never had any problems with the overall difficulty of mobs and i never asked for any of them to be nerfed.

In fact, i thoroughly enjoyed the difficulty of Dosiha during beta before she was nerfed into the ground ...
;-)

Artemiisia

people seem to call people that having a hard time with anything for casual on these forums, maybe its the friendly word for it, I dont know

Rosveen

Single player games usually have difficulty sliders. You may have noticed a few people asking for a similar thing in ESO, even thought it's unlikely to happen.

I don't know if VR nerf was necessary, I didn't play in those zones before the change (I'm casual because I'm so slooow ) I thought Doshia was fine before. But I typically don't quit because of difficulty. I have no problem with dying a few times until I figure out a better strategy, it's more enjoyable than steamrolling everything, that's for sure.

I do quit because of what I consider bad design; when I can't play the way I believe I should be able to. I quit Human Revolution after I saw the boss fights. I played a non-lethal hacker, but I couldn't stun or hack anything, I had to blow the guy up. Nope, not doing that, that's not my Deus Ex. So to relate this to ESO... I can understand people quitting when they are forced to solo content they can't beat for some reason. Or when they are forced to group for entire zones: if Murkmire is released before Wrothgar, it will become an even bigger problem for them.

Elsonso

Honestly, I do not think that Doshia was nerfed just because of players complaining.

I have to think that they are tracking character deaths and when one monster seems to kill characters out of line with other monsters in the game, they probably start looking at the monster to figure out why.

The 'casual gamer' in the context of this thread would be a player that is just playing to have casual fun and is not investing time and effort to become an expert in the game. As a perpetual "noob", or at least a long term one, they might not be closely watching equipment to maximize Health, Magicka, and Stamina when they swap stuff out. They might not be taking the optimal skills or might be slotting a skill that does less damage than other skills they already have. They learn to play the game just well enough to function under normal conditions.

When they run across a monster that is an order of magnitude more difficult than the monsters around it, then yeah, they are going to die and die frequently. They need to adapt and may not understand why they need to adapt, or how to adapt. If they do not have the interest in adapting and coming back when they are ready, they may simply quit simply due to a single monster.

This is actually why I am against the forced solo content in this game. In these situations, the "casual gamer" could solve this with a social solution by getting someone to come in and help.

How do you ever complete any normal single player games that you play, its not like their content get nerfed?

If they do not cheat to bypass the content, they simply quit playing and never return. They tell their friends that the game was poorly designed or too hard and move on to something else.

Specific to Doshia, she is enough of a different monster from those that surround her that you do have to ask yourself what the designers were thinking. The monsters 'guarding' her are trivial in comparison.

Nestor

lordrichter wrote: »

They need to adapt and may not understand why they need to adapt, or how to adapt. If they do not have the interest in adapting and coming back when they are ready, they may simply quit simply due to a single monster.

Nice Backhanded statement there.

I am a casual player who likes to have fun. I know how to adapt, I know how to build the ultimate DPS dealing character that this game can allow you to create. I just choose not to as it is not worth the effort in my mind to do so. I also don't do PvP in this game, so that does make a difference in how I approach the game. As long as my toon can prevail most of the time, then I just adjust my tactics or gain a level or two and come back when I can't prevail.

I have more fun trying to take my NB (1H/S and MA so not optimized at all) through dungeons than my Sorc or my DK (who can face roll almost any mob) most evenings as it is more of a challenge to do so with the NB more than the Sorc or the DK. Then again, sometimes I have fun wiping a dungeon out with little to no effort or thought to the tactics.

So, the real difference is: A Casual Player plays the game to have fun, a Hardcore Player has fun optimizing their character and the game. Both are laudable goals, but one does not denigrate the other.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

SirAndy wrote: »

I think you're confused about the meaning of the term casual.
Casual does *not* mean unskilled. The two are not the same.

They are to many hardcore elitist jerks, who use the term in the same condescending way as many PVPers use carebear.

I totally agree with you, but as for the OP .. I'm not sure ..

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

lordrichter wrote: »

When they run across a monster that is an order of magnitude more difficult than the monsters around it, then yeah, they are going to die and die frequently. They need to adapt and may not understand why they need to adapt, or how to adapt. If they do not have the interest in adapting and coming back when they are ready, they may simply quit simply due to a single monster.

Or maybe, just maybe, that mob is so stupidly over-tuned that it needs nerfing?

Fact is, Harvesters are probably the nastiest mob in the game given the stupidly massive health recovery a single orb does. Doshia was the first one you met and in at least one faction (AD?) you met her in a small room where frankly the orbs often spawned in the walls and you never saw them before they healed her. Given you don't have a morphed Silver Bullets at that stage many class build simply couldn't deal with the orbs fast enough.

This fight is probably too far the other way, on my latest NB at level 9 I killed her before she even morphed into Harvester form, but originally, even in beta, many players were having to over-level by a LOT in order to kill her .. THAT is a stupidly over-tuned mob, NOT a 'casual' problem.

You'll probably say you didn't have a problem, many have posted in the past how they're so uber (my words) that they killed her first time on-level. Good for them, the vast number of others who struggled to the point of abandoning the game don't generally post on these forums, the few that do get blasted by the scream of CASUAL, L2P! the OP seems may be doing here.

Syntse

People say casual as it's more easier than to try to distinguish the specific people as they are more likely belonging to that group. Doesn't mean though that once casual mentioned that it would apply all casual gamers.

Single player games have difficulty slider yes that can be used when things get hard and then some people just don't buy those games that are hard or in case they do they get to a point where they cannot advance and stop playing.

Not everyone has the patience and mentality retry until succeed they will give up sooner or later. Personally I can try pretty long time before giving up, my wife other hand will try few times and then give up and force me to complete that part. We have played games that we can co-op so I can carry her when it's difficult. Unfortunately ESO does have quests that do not allow this kind of carrying.

Like so many times said ESO is big game that is based on single player game lore and will have people trying to enjoy it different ways who have different skills. And think ESO should try to provide little for everyone to keep good subscription base.

Vuron

Syntse wrote: »

Like so many times said ESO is big game that is based on single player game lore and will have people trying to enjoy it different ways who have different skills. And think ESO should try to provide little for everyone to keep good subscription base.

I think this game being based on the TES series is part of the problem and more specifically, that many of the people playing have only played Skyrim.

Vanilla Skyrim was one of the easiest RPGs that I have every played. The game was horribly broken, the mechanics were bad, and certain combinations gave you god-like power. If you did nothing but sneak and use a bow, you were invincible after a few hours of play time when both skills got to level 50. You could pretty much build any way you want and easily beat anything in the game. This is fine for a single player game, but doesn't work for an MMO.

So, you have a combination of people that play RPGs like DragonAge and Witcher on easy mode, people who's only experience is a cakewalk game like Skyrim which lets you kill everything in 1 shot, and many people from the TES franchise that seem to concentrate more on RP than gameplay.

I doubt that most of these players play the types of games mentioned in the OP like Tombraider/Resident Evil/Silent hill.

I understand that the hardcore gamers are severely outnumbered and many would hate the types of games that we play. I'm one of the people that liked D3 at launch when it was almost impossible to complete the game.

I do think that most people take the easy way out, though. The first reactions for many will be to complain that something is too hard, or that something is a gate preventing them from getting more content, or using the old argument that they paid the same as everyone else so should have the same rewards. A perfect example was the Doshia fight. A large number of people never even learned that the orbs healed her and felt it was impossible to complete. Simply spending a little effort and learning 1 mechanic of a fight made it go from impossible to very doable.

You still see complaints about how hard the Molag Bal fight is for some people and these threads are right above or below the threads saying how disappointing it was because it was too easy.

Rune_Relic

OK. I accept a lot of the comments on here. Many would give up rather than keep trying until they succeed.

I also accept that some of that is down to tactical ignorance. But that could be as they genuinely have no idea of the mechanics of each monster and how they are working.

My answer then is this....
Make a spoiler section (uncluttered sticky) on ESO with tutorial on every boss and how to handle them thats easy to find and use. Perhaps then you Zeni can direct people at the cheat sheet first before nerfing bosses that may or may not need to be nerfed.

Difficulty level is coming to 1.3 I hear anyway.

Not sure if you can access a monster section in the help tab ? If not a library with monster books in town would be good. "Know your enemy"

Orchish

Way to generalise. I am what you call a causal player. I have a job, a girlfriend and cannot play all day. Thus i am a causal player. Does that mean i hate a challenge? Absolutely not. That is why i play PvP a lot more than PvE because real players provide a great challenge.

As for your question? Simple, single player games have a difficulty slider. Those that dislike difficult challenge play on easy. Those that do play on hard. MMO's cannot have such a slider for obvious reasons. So those that like easy games complain that things are too hard, those that like difficult games complain that things are too easy.

Basically, ZOS cannot win.

Vuron

Rune_Relic wrote: »

My answer then is this....
Make a spoiler section (uncluttered sticky) on ESO with tutorial on every boss and how to handle them thats easy to find and use. Perhaps then you Zeni can direct people at the cheat sheet first before nerfing bosses that may or may not need to be nerfed.

This is more a responsibility of the community than it is of the designers. There are many resources available that contain this type of information. You can do simple searches to find the mechanics of most boss fights. This ties in to the information available in many of the addons including skyshard and lorebook locations.

Having a strong community is one of the benefits of this type of game. There are some great sites specifically made to help the type of players that want to get help rather than just complain.

Anastasia

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

When they run across a monster that is an order of magnitude more difficult than the monsters around it, then yeah, they are going to die and die frequently. They need to adapt and may not understand why they need to adapt, or how to adapt. If they do not have the interest in adapting and coming back when they are ready, they may simply quit simply due to a single monster.

Or maybe, just maybe, that mob is so stupidly over-tuned that it needs nerfing?

Fact is, Harvesters are probably the nastiest mob in the game given the stupidly massive health recovery a single orb does. Doshia was the first one you met and in at least one faction (AD?) you met her in a small room where frankly the orbs often spawned in the walls and you never saw them before they healed her. Given you don't have a morphed Silver Bullets at that stage many class build simply couldn't deal with the orbs fast enough.

This fight is probably too far the other way, on my latest NB at level 9 I killed her before she even morphed into Harvester form, but originally, even in beta, many players were having to over-level by a LOT in order to kill her .. THAT is a stupidly over-tuned mob, NOT a 'casual' problem.

You'll probably say you didn't have a problem, many have posted in the past how they're so uber (my words) that they killed her first time on-level. Good for them, the vast number of others who struggled to the point of abandoning the game don't generally post on these forums, the few that do get blasted by the scream of CASUAL, L2P! the OP seems may be doing here.

---

Appreciate the information you posted and your opinion fromtesonlineb. And you and I agree on defining what a casual player is. It used to include players who very likely knew what the hell they were doing but no longer/did not have the TIME to commit to doing it. Now the definition of casual player is crazily morphing.

You said: "If they do not have the interest in adapting and coming back when they are ready, they may simply quit simply due to a single monster."

And: "number of others who struggled to the point of abandoning the game..."

For those who did struggle and TRY to adapt, a nod to them. For those who 'do not have the interest in adapting..." --- WHO IS THIS GAME MEANT FOR?

Do you think MAYBE there was any/a tad/some pre-launch data-mining and research done? Had to be. They had to provide the suits with enough info to get the funding approved. What happened to that data? Was it used?

Can an MMO encompass a wide berth of players? Sure.
Can an MMO be ALL things to ALL player styles? No. And history has shown in this industry, dilution works fine if the target market is informed about it to BEGIN WITH; not when a company changes course seemingly with little regard to informing the customers or giving reasonable information based on how the changes are going to be implemented. Thats fair, then I'd know and base my entertainment dollar decisions on either 1: the original reason the game interested me, or 2: accepting or deciding the major changes are not worth it for me.

Should an MMO know what its target population encompasses?
Yea. Should an MMO staff work toward an equitable basis for stats amongst base classes? Yes.

Bottom line: the dev staff of an MMO should stay true to the original creative design planned, with featured sidetracks, new content and adjustments, NOT dilution NOR 180-degree changes in mechanics or overall zone wide mob difficulty.

This MMO was advertised and promo'd to have lower level PvE soloing, with mid-to-upper level grouping-centric content prior to challenging endgame grouping content, and great PvP play.

So, who IS this MMO meant for? PvP players, MMO-vets, and those other players who love the idea of a far-in-th-future ES setting. TESO was not marketed as and is not a game meant for a majority of SOLO-DEMANDING single-game chasers. This is an MMO with fun features and some new exciting future content to look forward to. But it is not an MMO made primarily for those who "do not have the interest in adapting and coming back when they are ready, they may simply quit simply due to a single monster." That is what one does in an MMO. There are no 'difficulty levers.' [/b] You figure it out as you fight/face quests, make adjustments, get new gear, change up your skills etc and accomplish what you need. Or GROUP up and get it done.

If it continues to have changes made like the V+ 1-10 nerf which directly affects TESO endgame, then it is will be an MMO no longer dedicated to a broad segment of playstyles but rather will be known as an MMO that is majorly off-course.

Goals please:

1. More work than what is currently planned please on stam/magicka ratio.
2. More attention to adjustments for Templars, warrior builds and Nightblades.
3. Continued work on figuring out how to get a majority of PvPr's able to actually have acceptable gameplay versus the continued lag issues.
4. Lessen the emphasis on info being put out about 'new content' and refocus on the communication with current players about current gameplay challenges and provide measurable goalposts of what and when anything is going to be accomplished.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

You seem to be attributing the quoted comments to me, in fact they were someone else.

I agree with the classification of playstyles you describe and frankly I don't see them ever happily co-existing as many of their needs and requirements are mutually exclusive or at best don't fit together without friction.

Whether the hardcore 'vets' from the 1990s era like it or not, the playstyle they loved .. group-or-die simply to level a la FFXI, EQ, etc. .. is no longer the only game in town and by huge numbers the more 'casual' players have shown they don't want it.

Why was/is WOW so successful and even now, with around half the number of active account as at its peak still has two or three times more than any other MMO around?

Simply because it was the first MMO where grouping was entirely OPTIONAL for character progression, group content was for those who wanted to 'group up' and go farm some blue/purple pixels while those not interested in that content could happily go hug trees and kill antelopes .. of which I did a LOT of both on my Cat druid in The Barrens.

Before WOW, games like EQ and FFXI (my first and one I still play today), where you simply couldn't level a character without joining parties to grind mobs: FFXI had one exception and maybe the other group-or-die games did but that was only used by a small minority who were looked down upon by everyone else, the Beastmaster, the job (class) I played most then and now.

There has never been an MMO released since that used 1990s MMOs as a model, for a very good reason: WOW showed there was a far larger market for games that were less group-centric.

Thing is of course, the solo/duo and the group-or-die factions are often diametrically opposed in their desires, and the content that please one usually does nothing for the other.

Couple that with more fragmentation into those that want everything to be a challenge and those that really don't find taking 5 minutes to kill a mob and having to run from packs of three or die regularly fun: the VR content as initially implemented is of course the perfect example where it's impossible to please both groups at the same time, their desires are mutually exclusive.

Developers therefore have to devote time developing both content types because although the 1990s style is now dead there are obviously large numbers of players who do want to spend most of their game time in dungeon farming.

But all that does is create a 'have and have not' community with the inevitable problems that go with it.

Lurk in an MMO forums you like, you see the same flame-wars between the 'hardcore' and the 'casuals', the PVPers complaining about OP classes, the PVEers complaining about incessant class nerfs the developers engage in to try to deal with the PVP complaints.

In this respect every MMO I play is the same: they try to appeal to all types of players, because the financial reality is that feel they can't ignore any group because none is dominant, but in trying to appeal to them all developers usually manage to satisfy none or if they satisfy one group it's at the expense of one or both of the others.

LadyInTheWater

Artemiisia wrote: »

A bunch of stuff about single-player games and casual gamers

Before I attempt to answer your question, let me help you understand my personal perspective on being a casual gamer (seeing as I am one).

1. My success in a game is not comparable to anyone else's success;

This means that I'm happy that I got that single loot drop. The fact that you have 15 epics piled in your backpack, all of which are better than mine, doesn't make me feel like a failure or a noob. My successes are my own, measured against my own boundaries, not the community. I don't feel like less, simply because you have more.

2. The game does NOT start at the level cap for me;

Many people feel that the game starts at the level cap (or, in ESO terms, at the Veteran ranks). As a casual player, the game starts for me at level 1. I enjoy playing each and every step of the way. The term "grind" never applies to me. By the time I reach the level cap in any MMO, I've actually immersed myself in the content. I didn't simply plow through it to get to the next level/zone as quickly as possible.

3. I don't expect anyone to win at anything all the time;

I occasionally see people refer to content as being "easy" or "dumbed down". Or I see the "hardcore" gamers complaining that something got nerfed because the casuals whined too much. I'm not so arrogant to believe that simply because I can do something easily, that someone else must be stupid/noobish if they can't. I also don't feel stupid/noobish if I can't complete content, and someone else can "solo 10 world bosses at level 1 while unarmed and AFK".

4. I don't need anything "right now" ;

I acknowledge that short-term special events are an exception to this rule. As for everything else: every achievement, item, boss, dungeon, raid, and point of interest is going to be there tomorrow. There's nothing I need so badly that I can't wait a day or two (or maybe even a month or two) to get it.

5. Other players are neighbors, not assets;

This is the big one. Most people treat other players as if they're NPC hirelings. I don't. Other players have their own goals, their own hopes, dreams, and passions. The entire community doesn't exist simply to buy my stuff, craft me items, hand me gold, and run me through dungeons. I interact with other players in a way that they know I'll treat them respectfully as a human being; not just a tool to get what I want.

So, with that in mind, nowhere did I say I didn't like a challenge. I also didn't say I don't have any skill with what I do.

Let's see if I can answer your question;
How do you ever complete any normal single player games that you play?

It depends on the game.
Something like StarCraft, I happen to be extremely competitive. I study a lot of different openers, and spend a lot of time theorycrafting counters to popular builds. Currently mid-level Diamond this season.

Whereas something like Skyrim? After my second battle, I had to go into the options menu and put it on the easiest difficulty setting. I still die a lot.

L.A. Noire? I love that game, but it's so difficult for me that I stopped playing. Although, occasionally I turn it on and have my boyfriend help me with the questions. He's better at it than I am.

Pokémon? I spend more time breeding than battling.

Artemiisia

amazing post @ladyinthewater normally I dont take that much time reading huge posts, but you pulled me in and made me interrested in what you were talking about and thinking, and in many ways Im playing like you from time to time,, and in some ways I wish I had that mentality, there are thankfully days where I stop and smell the roses. There are so many beautiful places and hidden gems in this game, I feel sad for myself when my get it all/win as fast as possible mentality gets the upper hand.

So I actually seeing myself as a hardcore, trying to be more casual player

there are some days where I turn off chat, so I dont get "dragged" into veteran dungeon or something else, dont get me wrong I freaking love doing them, thats why im so easy to say yes without thinking

Some days I love spending an hour just listen to music and farming nodes/herbs and such, or going into cold harbour public dungeon, and nuke the whole place down, why u ask, well because I CAN well and its relaxing overkill fun

I just brought Age of Empires 2 HD and 3 today on steam they are freaking cheap, I remember playing this many years ago luving it. So now ill be doing some single player game on the side as well, which I havent been doing lately.

Been jumping from Age of Conan to The Secret World and now ESO

pantaro30

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

A bunch of stuff about single-player games and casual gamers

Before I attempt to answer your question, let me help you understand my personal perspective on being a casual gamer (seeing as I am one).

1. My success in a game is not comparable to anyone else's success;

This means that I'm happy that I got that single loot drop. The fact that you have 15 epics piled in your backpack, all of which are better than mine, doesn't make me feel like a failure or a noob. My successes are my own, measured against my own boundaries, not the community. I don't feel like less, simply because you have more.

2. The game does NOT start at the level cap for me;

Many people feel that the game starts at the level cap (or, in ESO terms, at the Veteran ranks). As a casual player, the game starts for me at level 1. I enjoy playing each and every step of the way. The term "grind" never applies to me. By the time I reach the level cap in any MMO, I've actually immersed myself in the content. I didn't simply plow through it to get to the next level/zone as quickly as possible.

3. I don't expect anyone to win at anything all the time;

I occasionally see people refer to content as being "easy" or "dumbed down". Or I see the "hardcore" gamers complaining that something got nerfed because the casuals whined too much. I'm not so arrogant to believe that simply because I can do something easily, that someone else must be stupid/noobish if they can't. I also don't feel stupid/noobish if I can't complete content, and someone else can "solo 10 world bosses at level 1 while unarmed and AFK".

4. I don't need anything "right now" ;

I acknowledge that short-term special events are an exception to this rule. As for everything else: every achievement, item, boss, dungeon, raid, and point of interest is going to be there tomorrow. There's nothing I need so badly that I can't wait a day or two (or maybe even a month or two) to get it.

5. Other players are neighbors, not assets;

This is the big one. Most people treat other players as if they're NPC hirelings. I don't. Other players have their own goals, their own hopes, dreams, and passions. The entire community doesn't exist simply to buy my stuff, craft me items, hand me gold, and run me through dungeons. I interact with other players in a way that they know I'll treat them respectfully as a human being; not just a tool to get what I want.

So, with that in mind, nowhere did I say I didn't like a challenge. I also didn't say I don't have any skill with what I do.

Let's see if I can answer your question;
How do you ever complete any normal single player games that you play?

It depends on the game.
Something like StarCraft, I happen to be extremely competitive. I study a lot of different openers, and spend a lot of time theorycrafting counters to popular builds. Currently mid-level Diamond this season.

Whereas something like Skyrim? After my second battle, I had to go into the options menu and put it on the easiest difficulty setting. I still die a lot.

L.A. Noire? I love that game, but it's so difficult for me that I stopped playing. Although, occasionally I turn it on and have my boyfriend help me with the questions. He's better at it than I am.

Pokémon? I spend more time breeding than battling.

Not much I need to say other than quote this.Like others have said choosing to be casual or hardcore is a choice.I can choose to be hardcore if i want i used to be rather hardcore and got sick of grinding the same content over and over several nights a week.

If i just wanted an end game i wouldn't play ESO.ESO offers me more than just an endgame so i choose to play ESO.

Personally I think endgame in most mmo's needs to evolve just like the genre needs to as well.Instead of copying and pasting the same thing over and over again.So i choose to pretty much ignore most end game.

ESO seems to care more about the world and offering a complete package,so thats why i play ESO.

AoEnwyr

Being a "Casual" player isn't about skill level. It's more about the amount of time a person has free to commit to a game. It can either be by choice and a lack of desire to keep notebooks full of stats/abilities/crafting information or due to life commitments such as having a job and going outside once in a while. It's true that there is a relationship between experience and ability but this game has never been that hard that to begin with. I don't believe a "nerf" has occurred because of "Casual" players complaining because let's face it, they probably don't have the time or inclination to hang out on forums harping on about how hard it is.

Tatuaje

Many good points in this thread on a fairly civil tone..... Rare for these forums. I would agree to the comments for the "casual" player how ever that term may fit, that solo games had "trainers", sliders, and or they may just quit. As many others I came here from Skyrim, and TBH that game was way more about the story lines and graphics. I had one difficult fight in the whole game (It was either the Staff of Magnus or the black vial?) that took place on like a ribbon type path through a portal. I hit it way too early.

As to TESO.... I have my VR7 Temp now muddling around getting old as the landscape is either no challenge any more or the mobs seem to hit for 3K/2K in a 4 man. I started a DK to see another class in action.

The two fights I remember the most in this game are Cheesemonger Hollow and Doshia prior to the nerf. Both wiped me easily 10x a piece and the repair bills were huge. Learning the game/skills and bad builds had a large part in the wipes, but there was a huge sense of accomplishment once I beat them. After I learned just how weak the Temp DPS is, it made the wins even better.

Nestor

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Thing is of course, the solo/duo and the group-or-die factions are often diametrically opposed in their desires, and the content that please one usually does nothing for the other.

Thing is, the Dungeons can be easily instanced for Group or Solo play. It can happen as you walk through the door Grouped or Solo. Then both sides can have what they want.

Group Dungeons just have more mobs and tougher bosses, so this is easily generated on the fly for any instance.