Problems I have with the Templar class

jrgray93

Having experience playing all classes now, I must say I find templars rather lacking. Yes, they can be built to be viable for most things, but it just feels more limited and never really the best choice for the job. That is except for when you need a good burst heal, and perhaps a few other minor exceptions.

Part of what makes it feel limited is that the templar inherently has less varied abilities by having an entire tree dedicated to healing. On top of that, they have a lot of support or mechanic-based abilities that take even more away from purely offensive choices. Look at any templar attempting DPS and they will either have Sun Fire, Solar Flare, Puncturing Strikes, or some combination of the three. Even then, these abilities tend to not synergize as well with each other as other classes' abilities might.

On other classes, I feel encouraged to use a mixture of abilities to layer DoTs, weaken enemies, and provide damaging utility combinations. On a templar, I feel more obligated to pick which ability has the highest base damage and make liberal use of it.

Sure, you can get a decent rotation. Say, Explosive Charge, Solar Barrage, Vampire's Bane, Puncturing Strikes. But then what? You've got those initial bursts but no lasting utility and only one DoT. It just kind of tapers off while your enemy remains at full strength (full damage, full movement speed, etc.) and you exhaust your resources. Yes, exhaust your resources, because your primary damaging abilities all cost at least average or above, and the lack of lasting effects leaves you with little to do but light / heavy attacks. Every other class has either resource recovery abilities, low-cost filler abilities, or both.

The problem is, once you start breaking from that templar DPS mold, you're forced to either move to the destro staff crowd, which seems to consist of the vast majority of the player base, or you use a stamina based ability that likely sucks just as much.

I will say that the more utility based abilities are nice in 1v1 PVP situations. But what does that matter? Most meaningful PVP in this game is just so large scale that it makes no difference at all if you happen to interrupt a cast by throwing a spear at a player. You're still better off spamming AoE or healing.

So I guess that's what I'm getting at. I feel so constrained to a few generally situational and arguably mediocre abilities, whereas other classes allow me to experiment and break the mold with more ease. The lack of internal class ability synergy plays a huge role in that situation. On top of that, you have other abilities that are just too situational to justify keeping them on the bar, or some of them just have useless morphs. For instance, Backlash's Purifying Light morph. The puddle of healing it provides is so small, it can be missed entirely on bosses, also known as the only enemy it is ever really worth casting on.

That all said, I'm not saying templars are necessarily bad. It just seems harder to make them work, and when you do, you don't have a whole lot of options to experiment with. The abilities don't lend themselves to versatility. I'll stick with my templar because I enjoy it and I've put the most work into it. I just hope to see some changes sooner or later.

hamon

yes ive played all 4 classes since i parked my templar at v12 and they are still the weakest class when you look at them wholistically. sure one or 2 abilites work well in a given situation. but the best templar builds you see seem to be ones with very little reliance on templar abilities.
a guy the other week posted a video of his templar doing ok in pvp to show templars are good. but if you examined it , it was mostly vampire and staffs that made it strong with just one templar ability on each bar.

the same type of build would be stronger using a sorc or dk and swapping out the 2 tempar abilities for their class ones to make it more effective.

Amsel_McKay

Light Armor Templar with 800-1000 DPS (no Vampire) 3 Templar abilities and the rest mage guild... I never run out of mana and soloed VR1-10 with at the most 5 deaths most coming to boss mobs.

Its not a broken class at all.

jrgray93

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Light Armor Templar with 800-1000 DPS (no Vampire) 3 Templar abilities and the rest mage guild... I never run out of mana and soloed VR1-10 with at the most 5 deaths most coming to boss mobs.

Its not a broken class at all.

And just which abilities are you using? That's kind of important.

I also have heard from other players of other classes that they are pushing a lot more DPS than that on single-target fights. I honestly don't know what is that good at VR12.

BugCollector

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Light Armor Templar with 800-1000 DPS (no Vampire) 3 Templar abilities and the rest mage guild... I never run out of mana and soloed VR1-10 with at the most 5 deaths most coming to boss mobs.

Its not a broken class at all.

I hope that was sarcasm. You said it yourself: only 3 Templar abilities. That's hardly a Templar character I'd say.

Amsel_McKay

jrgray93 wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Light Armor Templar with 800-1000 DPS (no Vampire) 3 Templar abilities and the rest mage guild... I never run out of mana and soloed VR1-10 with at the most 5 deaths most coming to boss mobs.

Its not a broken class at all.

And just which abilities are you using? That's kind of important.

It depends there are so many options on play style with the Templar, some times I like to play up and close sometimes I like to play far away... I change my Light armor to get to max armor with one build and solid mana on another...

Are you searching for a build with this post? I mean I can lay it all out for you with synergies and give you a cookie cutter build if you like...

jrgray93

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Light Armor Templar with 800-1000 DPS (no Vampire) 3 Templar abilities and the rest mage guild... I never run out of mana and soloed VR1-10 with at the most 5 deaths most coming to boss mobs.

Its not a broken class at all.

And just which abilities are you using? That's kind of important.

It depends there are so many options on play style with the Templar, some times I like to play up and close sometimes I like to play far away... I change my Light armor to get to max armor with one build and solid mana on another...

Are you searching for a build with this post? I mean I can lay it all out for you with synergies and give you a cookie cutter build if you like...

No, I'd just like the know which abilities you meant specifically when you made that post. Which three, and which two?

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Dead horse

jrgray93

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

Dead horse

I know this all too well.

Erock25

@jrgray93

I feel you are looking at things as a grass is greener mentality or maybe you haven't truly experienced a Sorc. You complain about a whole skill line dedicated to healing while Sorc has a whole line dedicated to summons. You complain that templar DPS is the combination of three templar abilities while Sorc dps is the combination of only two (Crit Surge for self healing to counteract spell symmetry and the execute .... rest of skills for Sorc dps are destruction or mage guild). Weak enemies, layer dots? Sorc does not do this.

I wonder what Sorc set up you were using to 'break the mold'.

AngryNord

BugCollector wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Light Armor Templar with 800-1000 DPS (no Vampire) 3 Templar abilities and the rest mage guild... I never run out of mana and soloed VR1-10 with at the most 5 deaths most coming to boss mobs.

Its not a broken class at all.

I hope that was sarcasm. You said it yourself: only 3 Templar abilities. That's hardly a Templar character I'd say.

Really? So you HAVE to use all five class abilities to be a Templar? I'd think most of those who play a certain class, mix the class abilities with weapon/guild ones... I also only use three Templar abilities (Solar Barrage, Biting Jabs, and one healing), the others being Brawler from the two-handed weapon abilities and Silver Bolts from Fighters Guild

jrgray93

Erock25 wrote: »

@jrgray93

I feel you are looking at things as a grass is greener mentality or maybe you haven't truly experienced a Sorc. You complain about a whole skill line dedicated to healing while Sorc has a whole line dedicated to summons. You complain that templar DPS is the combination of three templar abilities while Sorc dps is the combination of only two (Crit Surge for self healing to counteract spell symmetry and the execute .... rest of skills for Sorc dps are destruction or mage guild). Weak enemies, layer dots? Sorc does not do this.

I wonder what Sorc set up you were using to 'break the mold'.

Lolwut. You're seriously going to equate the state of sorcerers to templars? I guess Daedric Curse is just something that summons creatures. Also, those summons do damage. Maybe not as ideal for a pure DPS setup, but they sure as hell are more varied than an entire healing tree.

Aeratus

jrgray93 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

@jrgray93

I feel you are looking at things as a grass is greener mentality or maybe you haven't truly experienced a Sorc. You complain about a whole skill line dedicated to healing while Sorc has a whole line dedicated to summons. You complain that templar DPS is the combination of three templar abilities while Sorc dps is the combination of only two (Crit Surge for self healing to counteract spell symmetry and the execute .... rest of skills for Sorc dps are destruction or mage guild). Weak enemies, layer dots? Sorc does not do this.

I wonder what Sorc set up you were using to 'break the mold'.

Lolwut. You're seriously going to equate the state of sorcerers to templars? I guess Daedric Curse is just something that summons creatures. Also, those summons do damage. Maybe not as ideal for a pure DPS setup, but they sure as hell are more varied than an entire healing tree.

Also, the sorc's summoning tree has bound armor, which used for tanking. The sorc's summoning tree isn't just for summoning dinos!

LariahHunding

Have a VR12 NB, VR1 DK, and just rolled a Temp last week (at lvl 26 now), it's the most fun that I have had in awhile in the game.

S&B and restro staff, use 3 templar abilites (Biting jabs, healing, and Solar Barrage with (innerlight and silver shards) and solar ult, max the magica and magica regen.

I'm steamrolling through the game more than the NB and DK. Although, I will admit, experience is a huge factor.

Am I missing something here? Thought they suppose to suck.

I have never played 5 class abilities on any character.

Erock25

jrgray93 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

@jrgray93

I feel you are looking at things as a grass is greener mentality or maybe you haven't truly experienced a Sorc. You complain about a whole skill line dedicated to healing while Sorc has a whole line dedicated to summons. You complain that templar DPS is the combination of three templar abilities while Sorc dps is the combination of only two (Crit Surge for self healing to counteract spell symmetry and the execute .... rest of skills for Sorc dps are destruction or mage guild). Weak enemies, layer dots? Sorc does not do this.

I wonder what Sorc set up you were using to 'break the mold'.

Lolwut. You're seriously going to equate the state of sorcerers to templars? I guess Daedric Curse is just something that summons creatures. Also, those summons do damage. Maybe not as ideal for a pure DPS setup, but they sure as hell are more varied than an entire healing tree.

Daedric Curse is poor damage on a 3.5 second delay. Pet damage is terrible and the only useful ability (vol familiar) was recently nerfed. Bound armor is decent for tanking but not everyone are tanks. Why did you ignore everything I say besides the Summoning skill line?

BRogueNZ

Lots of skills to (mostly) help and hinder but If I want to hurt I really have to wait for soul assault or get lucky with an eclipse reflect.

I don't see Templar as a dps class though so I'm not too distressed that I can't one shot someone or take on a bunch, be nice, but..

Lynx7386

Part of what makes it feel limited is that the templar inherently has less varied abilities by having an entire tree dedicated to healing. On top of that, they have a lot of support or mechanic-based abilities that take even more away from purely offensive choices.

And that's as it should be, the templar isnt a completely damage-oriented class. It's a jack of all trades class, a hybrid, and the only class that has decent heals outside of the resto staff line.

Stop trying to play your templar like a rogue or warrior and start playing him more like a paladin or druid =P

The problem is, once you start breaking from that templar DPS mold, you're forced to either move to the destro staff crowd, which seems to consist of the vast majority of the player base, or you use a stamina based ability that likely sucks just as much.

Any class is going to rely more on weapon abilities than class abilities for most damage builds. The exception would be nightblades and to a lesser extent sorcerors, but both will still be using impulse or at least one melee weapon ability to supplement class ability damage.

The problem here isnt with the templar, it's with how poor stamina builds are right now.

I will say that the more utility based abilities are nice in 1v1 PVP situations. But what does that matter? Most meaningful PVP in this game is just so large scale that it makes no difference at all if you happen to interrupt a cast by throwing a spear at a player. You're still better off spamming AoE or healing.

Again this isnt so much a class issue as a game issue. PvP is far too zergy right now, and that's a problem for everyone. We definitely need some smaller scale pvp where the player feels like more than one more number spammer in the mob.

jrgray93

LariahHunding wrote: »

Have a VR12 NB, VR1 DK, and just rolled a Temp last week (at lvl 26 now), it's the most fun that I have had in awhile in the game.

S&B and restro staff, use 3 templar abilites (Biting jabs, healing, and Solar Barrage with (innerlight and silver shards) and solar ult, max the magica and magica regen.

I'm steamrolling through the game more than the NB and DK. Although, I will admit, experience is a huge factor.

Am I missing something here? Thought they suppose to suck.

I have never played 5 class abilities on any character.

Well, you're using two of those abilities I mentioned. You're also still low level, where it's pretty easy to steamroll just about anything.

Erock25 wrote: »

Why did you ignore everything I say besides the Summoning skill line?

The other comments didn't seem as worthy of a response.

gunplummer

I just started a new dual/bow imperial templar and I don't find the class that bad, but it is a little quirky. The magick cost are pretty cheap and the heals aren't bad especially compared to my main DK costs. I went vamp with this character which seems to go well together to boost healing.

The skills do feel like they were an after thought and the ults are a bit weak compared to other classes, but charge fairly quickly. My biggest problem is I really want a stam build, but because the dual lacks a charge attack like 2h and 1h/shield I feel like I am causally walking into combat. i know templar has a charge attack, but its been kind of lackluster so far.

With the low cost abilities at first glance templar seemed like it would be a decent stam build so I decided to dump everything into health while running 2HA, 3MA, 2LA with to gain a bit from each of the armor passives. There are a few skills I like, but there are a few that I just can't get into yet.

I know they have made some changes to the class, but it could use some more love. Right now I'm at level 25 so I'll reserve my final judgement until at least vr1. I would be interested in other build ideas outside stick and skort.

LariahHunding

jrgray93 wrote: »

LariahHunding wrote: »

Have a VR12 NB, VR1 DK, and just rolled a Temp last week (at lvl 26 now), it's the most fun that I have had in awhile in the game.

S&B and restro staff, use 3 templar abilites (Biting jabs, healing, and Solar Barrage with (innerlight and silver shards) and solar ult, max the magica and magica regen.

I'm steamrolling through the game more than the NB and DK. Although, I will admit, experience is a huge factor.

Am I missing something here? Thought they suppose to suck.

I have never played 5 class abilities on any character.

Well, you're using two of those abilities I mentioned. You're also still low level, where it's pretty easy to steamroll just about anything.

Erock25 wrote: »

Why did you ignore everything I say besides the Summoning skill line?

The other comments didn't seem as worthy of a response.

Yeah, but I have leveled two other characters that I can compare to at the same level. Could be that templars suit my style of play better. Could be that I am much better player now (block, dodge/roll, interrupt).

jrgray93

LariahHunding wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

LariahHunding wrote: »

Have a VR12 NB, VR1 DK, and just rolled a Temp last week (at lvl 26 now), it's the most fun that I have had in awhile in the game.

S&B and restro staff, use 3 templar abilites (Biting jabs, healing, and Solar Barrage with (innerlight and silver shards) and solar ult, max the magica and magica regen.

I'm steamrolling through the game more than the NB and DK. Although, I will admit, experience is a huge factor.

Am I missing something here? Thought they suppose to suck.

I have never played 5 class abilities on any character.

Well, you're using two of those abilities I mentioned. You're also still low level, where it's pretty easy to steamroll just about anything.

Erock25 wrote: »

Why did you ignore everything I say besides the Summoning skill line?

The other comments didn't seem as worthy of a response.

Yeah, but I have leveled two other characters that I can compare to at the same level. Could be that templars suit my style of play better. Could be that I am much better player now (block, dodge/roll, interrupt).

Could be any number of things. I actually hopped on a friend's 48 nightblade a week ago, before playing the class beyond level 6, and I was instantly amazed at how easily I could deal tons more DPS than my templars were capable of. It lacked comparable survivability, but it was just so much better.

DarkAedin

its funny to watch ppl complain, but they have no clue wtf they are doing, and its blatantly obvious.

lol half the abilities in aedric spear line work off weapon crit, so, to start with, ur using abilities that are translating poorly for you b/c you're a magicka build.

just b/c one chooses to use other abilities over class abilities in their loadout doesnt mean that they are not playing that class... for many, its about passives, and being able to pull out the right active for any situation.
thats where the paladi...er templar shines, b/c they are the jack of all trades, but master of none.

im a 2h Templar 7/7 med armor pulling 900+dps in trials, single target and sustained, theres been many posts with pics about it, here, on TF forums, and reddit

prior to the nerf, i was soloing dolmens and world bosses with ease, now im crapping all over them.

yes, the templar class, along with the other 3 classes have some kinks that need to be worked out, considering the game is under 6months old, thats par for the course.

However, the issue here, is that many have no clue how to play a templar properly

current dps rotation for resto staff is keeping blazing spear and vampire bane up while spamming dark flare.

stamina users only use blazing spear and one of the restoring aura morphs (for trials) and puncturing sweep for solo pve.


current dps rotation for destro staff is crushing shock and light attack weaving
-this is improved best by the 2 of the other classes due to;
1) sorc - surge (active that increases weapon dmg)
2) nb - hemmorhage (passive that improves crit)

but this is only discussing offensive.
what about defensive?
how about any templar, in any role, can put out heals or healing auras w/o using a resto staff?
how about blazing shield? rune?
the only class with an awesome pvp ability called eclipse?
blinding flashes? (u should try this with ember explosion from DW)
PoTL?
a dps or tank with purifying ritual?

i see a ton of awesome defensive, support, and even some offensive abilities thrown in to this jack of all trades class

the issue is simply this:
game is still "new" balancing must happen, but they are currently balancing for solo pvp, group pvp both in large and small groups, solo pve, small group pve (2-4 peeps) and trials/raids. this will take time.

the actual issues with templar class are:

-the aedric spear line is based off of spelldmg and max magicka, but weapon crit.
--double issue here is also the passive, "burning light" if this was constant instead of chance on hit, then aedric spear line would make templar viable dps (w/o any other fixes? -between making biting jabs viable, and improve blazing spear dot)

-no finisher
-needs better resource management


anything else can be gained through guild/world and weapon actives,
this is a support class! - no other better stamina regeneration in guild them from templars (aura + spear synergy)

just wait till we get spellcrafting, and templars will become the new op class

BugCollector

AngryNord wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Light Armor Templar with 800-1000 DPS (no Vampire) 3 Templar abilities and the rest mage guild... I never run out of mana and soloed VR1-10 with at the most 5 deaths most coming to boss mobs.

Its not a broken class at all.

I hope that was sarcasm. You said it yourself: only 3 Templar abilities. That's hardly a Templar character I'd say.

Really? So you HAVE to use all five class abilities to be a Templar? I'd think most of those who play a certain class, mix the class abilities with weapon/guild ones... I also only use three Templar abilities (Solar Barrage, Biting Jabs, and one healing), the others being Brawler from the two-handed weapon abilities and Silver Bolts from Fighters Guild

I just meant that if you hardly use any Templar skills, it's easier to be content with them.

eliisra

BugCollector wrote: »

I hope that was sarcasm. You said it yourself: only 3 Templar abilities. That's hardly a Templar character I'd say.

I never use more than 3 class skills on my VR12 sorcerer either. Mage's guild, vampire (in PvP), Restoration- and Destruction Staff is better choices. So I'm not a real sorcerer than I guess, since most my class skills are inferior to other skill lines?

People really need to drop their obsession with class skills. It's only one bit out of many that makes a build viable. Passives and synergy with other skills lines plays an equally important part when it comes to class balance. It's really important to remember that, especially for developers!

I also think templar needs better resource management. Who doesn't lol?

I rage about it on a daily basis. It's problematic to use Spell Symmetry in PvP. It costs me 750 health and stops all healing for 4 sec. Try using that when there's raining siege, AoE and dragon knights. This while other classes have actual class skills to get magicka back.

Templar also needs a little bit better sustained dps. But that's hardly something you would notice outside of trials of course. Trials are all about dps and stacking as many dps as possible, but Templars aren't really viable in that role

kitsinni

BugCollector wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Light Armor Templar with 800-1000 DPS (no Vampire) 3 Templar abilities and the rest mage guild... I never run out of mana and soloed VR1-10 with at the most 5 deaths most coming to boss mobs.

Its not a broken class at all.

I hope that was sarcasm. You said it yourself: only 3 Templar abilities. That's hardly a Templar character I'd say.

I would say 3-4 class abilities are average regardless of class. Some use less few use more. If you are using 100% class abilities you are probably not doing that great honestly.

moxiesauce

I just hate the charge mechanic templars have, I was very excited to use it, then it turns out it's weird to use. They just need to make it more reactive like shield charge or critical charge.

NerfEverything

Everyone has been saying this since the end of beta. Templars are the most underwhelming class. The best templars use almost no templar skills. Everything templars can do, other classes can do as well or better.

Anyone who has played any of the other 3 classes will agree with you OP. Templars are weak. ZOS is trying to fix them but they still have a long way to go.

Tankqull

NerfEverything wrote: »

Anyone who has played any of the other 3 classes will agree with you OP. Templars are weak. ZOS is trying to fix them but they still have a long way to go.

i´m playing a temp, dk both VR12 and sorc/nb within lvl 40s i wont call my templar weak. but they are simply no dps class. their strength is burst healing, support and in pvp outlasting everyone and his mother (which wins by doing so).
what i actually fear the most is that spellcrafting will alleviate our advantages while not giving us the tools needed (out of balances issues regarding other classes) to get substatially dps gains...

Salacious

This class, is my main and my only character. I find it extremely limiting.

traigusb14_ESO2

VR 12 temp. Did VR levels solo the hard days (uphill both way in the snow etc.)

Temps excel as tanks. ( I use heavy /sword and board)

Slots
1. Taunt either Sta up close or undaunted Mag ranged.. solo deep slash from S&B (damage and snare)
2. Extended ritual
3. honor the dead
4. Blazing spear (with passives it is a very strong AOE Dot + single target stun.)
5. Radiant aura

Ult:Empowering sweep (will swap depending on what i'm doing, but this is tandard for solo and most tanking)

I'll throw in special stuff for bosses, or lots of casters etc.


Some of our utility is wasted due to the magicka slant in game ATM ... was in a group yesterday with a bow NB and a 2H DK and radiant aura + their already high sta regen = win. Sta skill damage is still low though.

A lot of utility is wasted on PUGs. People don't know a ton about temps (or temp healing) and are often surprised when I say... oh I'll use this skill or that skill and they say... Temps can do that?

ESO doesn't force group synergies like Rift or Secret World, Vanguard etc. ( someone causes bleed, someone else does extra damage on bleeding targets). Which I kinda miss.

We have a lot of secondary group buffs hidden in our skills.

Some of our skills like Solar barrage, make next attack (usually not us) do more damage etc. great for alternating with someone else's AOE

Blazing spear lets an ally get 25% stam back + a little more over time. Awesome for tanks to grab, in addition to being a good AOE dot (can't grab it ourselves as a caster, but love other temps in group using it when I tank.)

Effectively, when not tanking or healing, we help other people's DPS, or help them sustain DPS, especially STA builds... which are not great ATM.... or we have a lot of little secondary heals depending on morphs.

A boost to STA play actually boosts us 2x both for solo reasons, and for group utility.

jrgray93

I do quite enjoy tanking and healing on my two templars. My main is a healer, my alt templar is a tank. The tanking seems to work really well, but I've only done so in dungeons up to level 30 so far. Healing is a lot of fun, but the resource management can sometimes get a bit tricky.

My healing setup is constantly changing because I want to try out all kinds of combinations.

Currently, and as of yet untested in dungeons, my setup for healing is as follows:

Primary bar:
Rapid Regeneration / Healing Springs / Magelight / Breathe of Life / Extended Ritual

Secondary bar:
Luminous Shards / Channeled Focus / Magelight / Breath of Life / Repentance

I keep magelight and breath of life on both bars so I don't have to recast magelight and I always have an emergency button. This may change when weapon swap gets improved, so I will only keep BoL on one bar. That still leaves room for personal error, so then again, maybe not.

My primary bar provides HoTs and magicka efficiency through healing springs. The secondary provides my group with stamina / magicka and supplementary AoE DPS, because my core group lacks AoE.

Previous to this, I just didn't have magelight, so that's the new element. Ideally, the spell crit should be a huge helper.