PVE/PVP options for Justice System /Criminal guilds

yarnevk

Should players be given the choice to have PVE/PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds? With a login system the PVP version could allow for criminals to fight other players inside their own alliance as bountied criminals outside Cyrodil, or they can have the choice of no PVP but there of course would still be PVE consequences just like past TES games. PVP versions can have assassins killing other players not just NPC, and accepting PVP thief bounties from PVP guards. PVE versions would only be PVE bounties, no player guards for such criminal activities.

WyndStryke

I don't think the options cover everything, therefore I'm not voting.

I like the sound of what has been announced, which is a combination of PvE and PvP.

yarnevk

Yes I want the option to choose PVE or PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds

PVE consequences in past TES games have usually involved the imperial or town guards or bandit thugs. Stealing and killing for your guild or as a rogue independent just playing your class skill tree. Be it the guard that looks the other way, takes a bribe, or fines you and even jails you leaving you to escape and get your stuff back, or trying to run away from their harsh blades.. All the classic TES consequences much of which is already planned for new features, the poll is only to restrict these consequences to NPC actions, choosing to have no PVP players in your instance.

PVP consequences would replace those NPC with PVP players, but could also allow other forms of PVP since it is logged in as choice, there could be travels to enemy alliances to assassinate PC, playing a PC pickpocket resulting in a duel, and all your typical criminal guild activities. Maybe like skyrim there could be bandit thugs that are now players, in addition to player guards. But this poll is not about what types of PVP, it is about PVE keeping out of PVP.

The only difference in poll choice is about being able to choose PVE consequences for those who never want exposed to PVP combat and consequences. PVP would be optin login much like Cyrodil has PVE activities but you risk PVP while doing them. There are already other games with megaservers (such as Defiance) that have phased instancing to keep apart players by PVP/PVE choices, so is technically possible. Or it could be done exactly ESO does already with quest choice changing phased instancing. If you do a crime you get a choice of being hunted by PC bounty or fighting or paying off the NPC guards.

yarnevk

Yes I want the option to choose PVE or PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds

WyndStryke wrote: »

I don't think the options cover everything, therefore I'm not voting.

I like the sound of what has been announced, which is a combination of PvE and PvP.

Both votes are yes votes for PVP in PVE zones because that is what has already been decided by the devs, the no vote is saying you are against allowing the players to take the choice of PVE only consequence in the announced system. If you chose to play in PVP it would be the same thing as announced, you go about your PVE activities and never PVP unless you do criminal things. The poll is only to ask do PVE players want the choice in the new systems to remove PVP consequences from their gameplay, but of course they would still have the PVE consequences from NPC (guards, imperials, thugs). The only real difference is choosing (or not) PC vs. NPC involvement in consequences.

Of course there are other PVP features that could be discussed such as arenas and duels once such a PVP login is enabled. But this poll is only about the announced features having player choice of PVE or PVP consequences (yes vote) or forced choice of having only PVP consequences (no vote)

TehMagnus

No I want only PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds.

Please ZOS don't listen to these people that want a system they can abuse at will without any consequences. If you want to make Justice system awesome, just leave it as you're making it or at least give it a shot. Paul Sage is 10000% right.

If you want to ruin it then make it opt-in so that all the people that want the benefits of stealing without the consequences abuse the system and it just becomes a dull addition to the game. Or make it so the NPCs are VR12 badasses that just 3 shot everybody .

WyndStryke wrote: »

I don't think the options cover everything, therefore I'm not voting.

I like the sound of what has been announced, which is a combination of PvE and PvP.

You're option is the 2nd one then which combines PVE with PVP as described by Paul Sage (and what they call PVP since for them it's "forced PVP in PVE" and they just wat to steal & murder without facing dangerous consequences.

nerevarine1138

The proposed system has both PvE and PvP consequences (although that's a terribly obtuse way of phrasing it) for the justice system. Why does this poll act as though they have to be separated?

TehMagnus

No I want only PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The proposed system has both PvE and PvP consequences (although that's a terribly obtuse way of phrasing it) for the justice system. Why does this poll act as though they have to be separated?

Because the poster either doesn't understand the concept of the justice system or wants to scare people into voting for option #1

Nox_Aeterna

Yes I want the option to choose PVE or PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds

Well , we dont really know 100% how it will work yet , all is still on "theory".

Still , i do believe it would be better to have them make it PvE only or PvE/PvP than to have only the PvP option.

In the end , there are players who simple dont want to deal with PvP AT ALL. It is ridiculous to say that then they should just skip the whole system and probably both the thieves and DB guilds which probably will lvl using this system.

The more people it could grasp , the better.

While people may not quit over not being able to play the justice system because it also has PvP and they hate it. This could be the thing that they play and makes them stay in the game instead of quitting.

yarnevk

Yes I want the option to choose PVE or PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The proposed system has both PvE and PvP consequences (although that's a terribly obtuse way of phrasing it) for the justice system. Why does this poll act as though they have to be separated?

There is no option to not get a PVP bounty other than not to play as a thief, therefore it has PVP consequences. You will get a bounty whenever you refuse to pay the guards off because you are broke from buying bags as slots, as a PVE player I want to get thrown in jail and escape it and steal my stuff back it like every TES character that has been a thief. If I want to PVP I will go to Cyrodil, but I am willing to let those who want to play thiefs with PVP consequences to do so as long as they give me the option not to.

I want only PVE consequences in my thieving, just like every TES game before it, thieving always has had consequences. There is no consequences to my thieving forced on any other PC so I should not be forced into PVP consequences with other PC because of it. Very simply give me a choice of accepting a PC PVP bounty or getting taken to jail with the NPC guards and loosing stolen stuff which I can steal back, or fighting the NPC guards. As a PVE player I want to have to sneak past the guards in town because I stole from everyone in that town, but not if that involves fighting other players. Those choices does not impact PVP gameplay at all just because I chose not to play with PVP in my instance.

nerevarine1138

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Well , we dont really know 100% how it will work yet , all is still on "theory".

Still , i do believe it would be better to have them make it PvE only or PvE/PvP than to have only the PvP option.

In the end , there are players who simple dont want to deal with PvP AT ALL. It is ridiculous to say that then they should just skip the whole system and probably both the thieves and DB guilds which probably will lvl using this system.

The more people it could grasp , the better.

While people may not quit over not being able to play the justice system because it also has PvP and they hate it. This could be the thing that they play and makes them stay in the game instead of quitting.

Speaking of not grasping things...

This is still an opt-in system. You can only be targeted for PvP if you are detected in the commission of a crime, and then you can only be targeted by players flagged as guards. Again, you can only be targeted for PvP if you are detected in the commission of a crime, and then you can only be targeted by players flagged as guards. Don't want to have to deal with the potential of a player attacking you? Pay your fine. Or better yet, don't get detected in the first place.

Nox_Aeterna

Yes I want the option to choose PVE or PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Well , we dont really know 100% how it will work yet , all is still on "theory".

Still , i do believe it would be better to have them make it PvE only or PvE/PvP than to have only the PvP option.

In the end , there are players who simple dont want to deal with PvP AT ALL. It is ridiculous to say that then they should just skip the whole system and probably both the thieves and DB guilds which probably will lvl using this system.

The more people it could grasp , the better.

While people may not quit over not being able to play the justice system because it also has PvP and they hate it. This could be the thing that they play and makes them stay in the game instead of quitting.

Speaking of not grasping things...

This is still an opt-in system. You can only be targeted for PvP if you are detected in the commission of a crime, and then you can only be targeted by players flagged as guards. Again, you can only be targeted for PvP if you are detected in the commission of a crime, and then you can only be targeted by players flagged as guards. Don't want to have to deal with the potential of a player attacking you? Pay your fine. Or better yet, don't get detected in the first place.

To begin with , without the thieves and DBs guild adding passives and skills to help in this , most classes barely stand a chance of not being seen.

Chances are trully high that people WILL see you doing the crimes and that you will be in trouble for it.

Again , saying people should just deal with the PvP part will just make many not use the system.

Is that an option? Sure it is.

But like i said , this system could be something the keeps people playing the game instead of leaving. Making it appeal to the highest number of players possible do makes sense.

Honestly , i think it could be balanced to only have PvE , granted we both know zen will take a LONG time to balance it like everything else.

Many i see defending not having a PvE option for people seem to be PvP players who know this would make tons of people not want to PvP with them.

Which goes back to my multiple posts on how for some reason PvP players feel the need to atk PvE players who do not want to play with them to begin with. I really dont get this issue , guess there are not enough PvP players or these are just bad and need to win PvE players to feel like they know how to play.

PS: No , i dont think you are one of them, just saying some i see here are.

PS2: And no , i dont really care personally , unless there is a HUGE advantage in taking part in this (which to me would be an issue , like for example bounty trading or some other exploit) , I dont plan on even taking part on this system till they add both the thieves guild and the DB. Which i do think will only come later right?

nerevarine1138

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Well , we dont really know 100% how it will work yet , all is still on "theory".

Still , i do believe it would be better to have them make it PvE only or PvE/PvP than to have only the PvP option.

In the end , there are players who simple dont want to deal with PvP AT ALL. It is ridiculous to say that then they should just skip the whole system and probably both the thieves and DB guilds which probably will lvl using this system.

The more people it could grasp , the better.

While people may not quit over not being able to play the justice system because it also has PvP and they hate it. This could be the thing that they play and makes them stay in the game instead of quitting.

Speaking of not grasping things...

This is still an opt-in system. You can only be targeted for PvP if you are detected in the commission of a crime, and then you can only be targeted by players flagged as guards. Again, you can only be targeted for PvP if you are detected in the commission of a crime, and then you can only be targeted by players flagged as guards. Don't want to have to deal with the potential of a player attacking you? Pay your fine. Or better yet, don't get detected in the first place.

To begin with , without the thieves and DBs guild adding passives and skills to help in this , most classes barely stand a chance of not being seen.

Chances are trully high that people WILL see you doing the crimes and that you will be in trouble for it.

Again , saying people should just deal with the PvP part will just make many not use the system.

Is that an option? Sure it is.

But like i said , this system could be something the keeps people playing the game instead of leaving. Making it appeal to the highest number of players possible do makes sense.

Honestly , i think it could be balanced to only have PvE , granted we both know zen will take a LONG time to balance it like everything else.

Many i see defending not having a PvE option for people seem to be PvP players who know this would make tons of people not want to PvP with them.

Which goes back to my multiple posts on how for some reason PvP players feel the need to atk PvE players who do not want to play with them to begin with. I really dont get this issue , guess there are not enough PvP players or these ones are just bad and need to win PvE players to feel like they know how to play.

PS: No , i dont think you are one of them, just saying some i see here are.

PS2: And no , i dont really care personally , unless there is a HUGE advantage in taking part in this (which to me would be an issue , like for example bounty trading or some other exploit) , I dont plan on even taking part on this system till they add both the thieves guild and the DB. Which i do think will only come later right?

Well, I'm sure some people oppose the idea of a split system because they don't want a reduced pool of players for PvP. However, you're right. I'm not one of those players, but I still strongly support the proposed system. If there were an option, then criminals are going to universally choose the PvE option. Because why would you choose a chance of punishment over certain survival?

yarnevk

Yes I want the option to choose PVE or PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds

Playing as a criminal that does not get caught to avoid PVP is not consensual PVP. I have always been caught in every TES game I played, even by that notorious chicken that ratted me out, part of the fun of thieving is trying not to get caught, but it is still fun when you do have a bounty knowing you have to sneak thru town and use your fences in the guild because merchants and guard hate you. What is not fun is having the PVP gank squad waiting by the town entrance for you.

So why do you PVP players insist on non consensual PVP with PVEers by pretending they just need to not caught, when they know they will get caught? Why do they insist on playing with players that do not want to play with them?

nerevarine1138

yarnevk wrote: »

Playing as a criminal that does not get caught to avoid PVP is not consensual PVP. I have always been caught in every TES game I played, even by that notorious chicken that ratted me out, part of the fun of thieving is trying not to get caught, but it is still fun when you do. So why do you as a PVP player insist on non consensual PVP with PVPers by pretending they just need to not caught, when you know they will get caught?

I haven't been caught committing a crime in an Elder Scrolls game since my first ill-fated attempt to steal a diamond while standing right in front of its owner. So no, I don't know that anyone will get caught if they are willing to take the time to be careful about things.

And let's get one thing absolutely straight here: I am not a PvP player. I primarily play PvE content, and I've spent next-to-no time in Cyrodiil (basically as much time as it took to get my Tamriel Hero achievement). But I support a justice system that immerses players fully in the game world instead of allowing everyone to commit crimes without any real threat.

So yes, it's "consensual" PvP. Because you know that getting caught may result in you being flagged if you refuse to pay the fine. So if you get killed by a player-guard, that means that you made a series of decisions that you knew might lead to that outcome. And you chose to make those decisions. That would mean that you consented to take part in the system.

babylon

Yes I want the option to choose PVE or PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

So yes, it's "consensual" PvP. Because you know that getting caught may result in you being flagged if you refuse to pay the fine. So if you get killed by a player-guard, that means that you made a series of decisions that you knew might lead to that outcome. And you chose to make those decisions. That would mean that you consented to take part in the system.

Really? So your advice to a pve player who doesn't want any pvp at all would be to not participate in this system, so they don't "give their consent".

Which makes the system seem like a huge waste of resources because it's either pvp or gtfo.

yarnevk

Yes I want the option to choose PVE or PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Well, I'm sure some people oppose the idea of a split system because they don't want a reduced pool of players for PvP. However, you're right. I'm not one of those players, but I still strongly support the proposed system. If there were an option, then criminals are going to universally choose the PvE option. Because why would you choose a chance of punishment over certain survival?

Because as a PVP player it will be the only way to flag yourself saying I am looking for some PVP, look player guards I just stole a sweetroll and have a bounty catch me if you can. If PVP in town outside cyrodil is so darn attractive that PVP players are calling for an even wider open world PVP, there should be no shortage of players willing to flag themselves as consensual PVP criminals.

There is no certain survival in a PVE punishment system, you lose your stuff and end up in jail having to steal it back and sneak out, or you simply get ganked by the NPC guard. It is that very reason that the system will be enjoyable to risk it and when you fail having to sneak thru that town. But PVPers need to understand that having PC guards will not be seen as enjoyable to many PVErs and thus they will have to satisfy themselves only with PVP criminals that find PVP enjoyable. Why would you want to ruin someones game by forcing them into a playstyle that is not enjoyable for them?

nerevarine1138

babylon wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

So yes, it's "consensual" PvP. Because you know that getting caught may result in you being flagged if you refuse to pay the fine. So if you get killed by a player-guard, that means that you made a series of decisions that you knew might lead to that outcome. And you chose to make those decisions. That would mean that you consented to take part in the system.

Really? So your advice to a pve player who doesn't want any pvp at all would be to not participate in this system, so they don't "give their consent".

Which makes the system seem like a huge waste of resources because it's either pvp or gtfo.

I would advise them to become very good at not being seen if they'd like to be a criminal. Otherwise, yes. I would suggest that someone who finds the idea of even potentially being attacked even once by another players so objectionable that they'd rather not participate in the system should not participate in the system. I, for one, don't plan on doing much PvP on my assassin, because I'm not going to be seen. I don't know what the rest of you criminal masterminds are thinking, but I think my plan is pretty solid.

Nox_Aeterna

Yes I want the option to choose PVE or PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Well , we dont really know 100% how it will work yet , all is still on "theory".

Still , i do believe it would be better to have them make it PvE only or PvE/PvP than to have only the PvP option.

In the end , there are players who simple dont want to deal with PvP AT ALL. It is ridiculous to say that then they should just skip the whole system and probably both the thieves and DB guilds which probably will lvl using this system.

The more people it could grasp , the better.

While people may not quit over not being able to play the justice system because it also has PvP and they hate it. This could be the thing that they play and makes them stay in the game instead of quitting.

Speaking of not grasping things...

This is still an opt-in system. You can only be targeted for PvP if you are detected in the commission of a crime, and then you can only be targeted by players flagged as guards. Again, you can only be targeted for PvP if you are detected in the commission of a crime, and then you can only be targeted by players flagged as guards. Don't want to have to deal with the potential of a player attacking you? Pay your fine. Or better yet, don't get detected in the first place.

To begin with , without the thieves and DBs guild adding passives and skills to help in this , most classes barely stand a chance of not being seen.

Chances are trully high that people WILL see you doing the crimes and that you will be in trouble for it.

Again , saying people should just deal with the PvP part will just make many not use the system.

Is that an option? Sure it is.

But like i said , this system could be something the keeps people playing the game instead of leaving. Making it appeal to the highest number of players possible do makes sense.

Honestly , i think it could be balanced to only have PvE , granted we both know zen will take a LONG time to balance it like everything else.

Many i see defending not having a PvE option for people seem to be PvP players who know this would make tons of people not want to PvP with them.

Which goes back to my multiple posts on how for some reason PvP players feel the need to atk PvE players who do not want to play with them to begin with. I really dont get this issue , guess there are not enough PvP players or these ones are just bad and need to win PvE players to feel like they know how to play.

PS: No , i dont think you are one of them, just saying some i see here are.

PS2: And no , i dont really care personally , unless there is a HUGE advantage in taking part in this (which to me would be an issue , like for example bounty trading or some other exploit) , I dont plan on even taking part on this system till they add both the thieves guild and the DB. Which i do think will only come later right?

Well, I'm sure some people oppose the idea of a split system because they don't want a reduced pool of players for PvP. However, you're right. I'm not one of those players, but I still strongly support the proposed system. If there were an option, then criminals are going to universally choose the PvE option. Because why would you choose a chance of punishment over certain survival?

Certain survival is only true if the balance is not well done.

I do agree with you , it would be a trully hard thing to balance and it would probably will require a LOT of work on zens end to make it working right, BUT it is possible.

Also , you dont talk about the other side , what if the criminal is a major PvP player (instead of PvE player) , that means he will kill the weak guard (which was never meant to stop him) and then crush the player guard who may come next.

We could escalate this over and over , but by then we could just say perform crimes in group and kill bounties in group...

And i dont agree with the issue of PvP players , i honestly dont care if they want to bash others head , IF the other player want it , then im all for it , but giving PvE players to PvP players because there are not enough of them around for them to kill one another is just silly. Some PvE players get REALLY annoyed to have to deal with PvP.

babylon

Yes I want the option to choose PVE or PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds

yarnevk wrote: »

Because as a PVP player it will be the only way to flag yourself saying I am looking for some PVP, look player guards I just stole a sweetroll and have a bounty catch me if you can. If PVP in town outside cyrodil is so darn attractive that PVP players are calling for an even wider open world PVP, there should be no shortage of players willing to flag themselves as consensual PVP criminals...But PVPers need to understand that having PC guards will not be seen as enjoyable to many PVErs and thus they will have to satisfy themselves only with PVP criminals that find PVP enjoyable. Why would you want to ruin someones game by forcing them into a playstyle that is not enjoyable for them?

Exactly - it seems to me that gaining a bounty is a reward to pvp players, and a punishment to pve players.

Why is ZOS making a system that punishes the majority of its player base and rewards a minority, effectively feeding the majority to the minority pvp players as content?

The system needs to be revamped with pve as an option.

yarnevk

Yes I want the option to choose PVE or PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I haven't been caught committing a crime in an Elder Scrolls game since my first ill-fated attempt to steal a diamond while standing right in front of its owner. So no, I don't know that anyone will get caught if they are willing to take the time to be careful about things.

Well good for you mister goody two shoes, but you entirely ignore that every TES game has been enjoyed by many a player because they can be the protaganist that is a thief or assassin and it makes more fun for them to actually get caught and get a bounty. I do not consent to PVP just because I am a bad criminal that likes to have to sneak thru town and spend time in the slammer and at my fence. I do not consent to PVP just because I took out that chicken who ratted me out to the shopkeeper and the entire town decided I was a murderer so they all had to die if that is what they thought. Again if you want to play with other PVPers that play that way great, but do not deny me that playstyle by saying you have to PVP if you want to steal/kill. It is PVE criminality, my criminal behavior will not impact any other player in the game, so I do not consent to being subjected to PVP punishment.

nerevarine1138

yarnevk wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I haven't been caught committing a crime in an Elder Scrolls game since my first ill-fated attempt to steal a diamond while standing right in front of its owner. So no, I don't know that anyone will get caught if they are willing to take the time to be careful about things.

Well good for you mister goody two shoes, but you entirely ignore that every game has been enjoyed by many a player because they can be the protaganist that is a theif or assassin and it makes more fun for them to actually get caught and get a bounty. I do not consent to PVP just because I am a bad criminal that likes to have to sneak thru town and spend time in the slammer and at my fence.

I'm sorry that I made that too hard for you to understand.

I always play a thief/assassin character in the Elder Scrolls games. I just haven't been caught. And if you really find it "fun" to get caught in the act, then you will have even more fun when you realize that other players can attack you if you choose to not pay your fine.

However, I'd wager that most criminal characters enjoy the thrill of getting away with things over the "thrill" of getting put in jail. If you want to roleplay a bad criminal, then be prepared for the consequences.

Edit to respond to your edit: in the single-player games, you were only committing a crime against the NPCs. Welcome to Elder Scrolls Online. When you commit a crime in Daggerfall, there are players there too. They're part of the city/alliance/community-at-large. They should have a part in enforcing its laws, if that's the path they choose.

yarnevk

Yes I want the option to choose PVE or PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds

Again it is you that does not seem to understand that fighting with other players is not fun for a majority of the MMO population. I have fun fighting with guards, and running away from them because I know it is not another person. I do not have fun fighting other people because I do not want to fight other people, it is not enjoyable. This is no different than some people like to play paintball while others simply do not ever want to play paintball.

Which is why the system needs to have consent for PVP punishment and give the option for PVE punishment. You keep saying it is consequence free if it is PVE only, when in fact it never has been consequence free in any TES game which have only been PVE and never PVP. If I want to be a bad criminal I am prepared to pay the PVE consequences, but I have absolutely no desire to play PVP. It is not not up to YOU to decide that I will have fun if I PVP, nor that I have to be a good criminal that never gets caught if I do not want to PVP.

nerevarine1138

yarnevk wrote: »

Again it is you that does not seem to understand that fighting with other players is not fun for a majority of the MMO population. I have fun fighting with guards, and running away from them because I know it is not another person. I do not have fun fighting other people because I do not want to fight other people, it is not enjoyable. This is no different than some people like to play paintball while others simply do not ever want to play paintball.

Which is why the system needs to have consent for PVP punishment and give the option for PVE punishment. You keep saying it is consequence free if it is PVE only, when in fact it never has been consequence free in any TES game which have only been PVE and never PVP. If I want to be a bad criminal I am prepared to pay the PVE consequences, but I have absolutely no desire to play PVP. It is not not up to YOU to decide that I will have fun if I PVP, nor that I have to be a good criminal that never gets caught if I do not want to PVP.

You're right. It's not up to me. It's up to the developers, and that's what they decided.

TehMagnus

No I want only PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

To begin with , without the thieves and DBs guild adding passives and skills to help in this , most classes barely stand a chance of not being seen.

Chances are trully high that people WILL see you doing the crimes and that you will be in trouble for it.

Have you played any TES game before? Probably not.

All you have to do is sneak (CTRL) and as long as your status is "hidden" you can steal without being seen. So you won't be able to steal from containers directly in front of an NPC unless he moves away but for anything else, you're good as long as your status is Hidden.

I always played Heavy Armor battlemage in Oblivion (not particularly sneaky class) and yet still managed to rob clean most of the places I visited.

People(other players) most likely do not count as "seeing you".

Chances to actually, as a guard, come across a thief in the process of fleeing will most likely be extremely low since most people actually wont get caught. I hope there's some kind of warning system for guards in the near vicinity of a robbery.

TehMagnus

No I want only PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds.

babylon wrote: »

yarnevk wrote: »

Because as a PVP player it will be the only way to flag yourself saying I am looking for some PVP, look player guards I just stole a sweetroll and have a bounty catch me if you can. If PVP in town outside cyrodil is so darn attractive that PVP players are calling for an even wider open world PVP, there should be no shortage of players willing to flag themselves as consensual PVP criminals...But PVPers need to understand that having PC guards will not be seen as enjoyable to many PVErs and thus they will have to satisfy themselves only with PVP criminals that find PVP enjoyable. Why would you want to ruin someones game by forcing them into a playstyle that is not enjoyable for them?

Exactly - it seems to me that gaining a bounty is a reward to pvp players, and a punishment to pve players.

Why is ZOS making a system that punishes the majority of its player base and rewards a minority, effectively feeding the majority to the minority pvp players as content?

The system needs to be revamped with pve as an option.

You have no statistics nor a clue about what the majority wants, you should stop speaking for them.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

@yarnevk Biased polls are worthless: there are FOUR possible options, not just two and either of the missing one would have my vote.

stevenbennett_ESO

I don't really see the option I want in there, which is "I really don't care as long as there is some way to absolutely prevent being flagged for PvP, even if that means my ability to steal or attack NPCs is disabled."

Honestly, I don't want to steal or attack NPCs, so I'd rather be given a flag to disable my ability to do that, even by accident, if doing so would have any risk of me being flagged for PvP.

babylon

Yes I want the option to choose PVE or PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds

magnusnet wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

yarnevk wrote: »

Because as a PVP player it will be the only way to flag yourself saying I am looking for some PVP, look player guards I just stole a sweetroll and have a bounty catch me if you can. If PVP in town outside cyrodil is so darn attractive that PVP players are calling for an even wider open world PVP, there should be no shortage of players willing to flag themselves as consensual PVP criminals...But PVPers need to understand that having PC guards will not be seen as enjoyable to many PVErs and thus they will have to satisfy themselves only with PVP criminals that find PVP enjoyable. Why would you want to ruin someones game by forcing them into a playstyle that is not enjoyable for them?

Exactly - it seems to me that gaining a bounty is a reward to pvp players, and a punishment to pve players.

Why is ZOS making a system that punishes the majority of its player base and rewards a minority, effectively feeding the majority to the minority pvp players as content?

The system needs to be revamped with pve as an option.

You have no statistics nor a clue about what the majority wants, you should stop speaking for them.

People are just asking for a pve option, why are you so against giving people options, unless you want pve players fed to you as suggested above.

Nox_Aeterna

Yes I want the option to choose PVE or PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds

magnusnet wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

To begin with , without the thieves and DBs guild adding passives and skills to help in this , most classes barely stand a chance of not being seen.

Chances are trully high that people WILL see you doing the crimes and that you will be in trouble for it.

Have you played any TES game before? Probably not.

All you have to do is sneak (CTRL) and as long as your status is "hidden" you can steal without being seen. So you won't be able to steal from containers directly in front of an NPC unless he moves away but for anything else, you're good as long as your status is Hidden.

I always played Heavy Armor battlemage in Oblivion (not particularly sneaky class) and yet still managed to rob clean most of the places I visited.

People(other players) most likely do not count as "seeing you".

Chances to actually, as a guard, come across a thief in the process of fleeing will most likely be extremely low since most people actually wont get caught. I hope there's some kind of warning system for guards in the near vicinity of a robbery.

Nobody said only NPCs will count. Actually that would make very little sense since players can be guards.

In cyrodiil people can see you in stealth without an issue up close , the only dif is that since cyrodiil is a freaking huge space , you can go hide very far away , the rooms in this game are much , MUCH smaller than that. So it is nothing major to get another player sneaking in them , hell , turn on magelight and the whole room is closed.

If you are right and only NPCs count , then it could work out beter for the PvE players , but i dont see it happening.

Still for some reason , what i think will happen is a huge zerg in the PvE areas , if there is one thing PvE players love and PvP players seem to dislike is zerging everyone else into oblivion heh.

yarnevk

Yes I want the option to choose PVE or PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

You're right. It's not up to me. It's up to the developers, and that's what they decided.

Yes indeed just like they decided that VR would be a forced grouping system. That worked out well for them and it cost them a million subs before they started fixing it. Players are giving feedback about what developers are doing wrong, and the good thing is the devs are listening to rational arguments even when it goes against their initial design impulses. That is why they share what they are working on, like in alpha they said this is a third person MMO, and realized what a bone head mistake that was and they went back and redesigned the game for first person view.

yarnevk

Yes I want the option to choose PVE or PVP consequences in the new justice system and criminal guilds

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

@yarnevk Biased polls are worthless: there are FOUR possible options, not just two and either of the missing one would have my vote.

This poll is only addressing the specific statement someone made, which was that only 10% of the people want only PVE consequences in the upcoming criminal justice system. That statement was deserving of a poll, which is why it is only the binary vote of being for PVP/PVE consequence option choices (Vote Yes), or are you against it and want to have only PVP consequences (Vote No).

It is only talking about the consequences of getting caught in the upcoming system; which in past TES games have been pay your bounty, go to jail, or fight the guards or thugs. All of those most certainly can be implemented as PVE choices rather than the pay your bounty or fight PVP guards system that was shown. It can be implemented in the same manner that choice quests are that your instance phase changes so that PVP guards only see PVP criminals and PVE criminals only see PVE guards. It can be done by changing the 'fight the guards' option to be 'fight the town guards' (PVE) or 'send the bounty hunters' (PVP). So it is a simple binary poll to reflect that simple choice to be made in the implementation. It is not eliminating PVP it is adding the option to have individual players to fight the NPC guards or go to jail rather than be subject to PVP bounty.

It would be preferable that it be an alt login choice so nobody can claim mistaken choice, and such a login would also allow devs to start adding other elements of open world PVP, like flagging yourself as PVP willing to receive dual/arena invites, or flagging yourself to be a criminal victim that can be killed or pickpocketed so that thieving and killing can be expanded to PCs not just NPCs (of course if you became a criminal victim you could get a personal bounty). But this poll is not about adding those things, it is only mentioned that would be a benefit of having a PVP login.

So yes this poll is only about offering choice for a PVE consequences option, because the current system has PVP guards with no options for PVE only guards or jail, which is what past TES games had.