Nightblade Questions

ron.vaughtnub19_ESO

Zmax and Fellow Nightblades,

I apologize if these questions have been answered previously however I cannot seem to find the answers I seek through general searches. I have a few questions that have been rattling around in my grey matter and as we approach the 1.3 release with the Set Bonus releases I figured I would throw them to the forums in hopes of answers.

1) Nightblade damage abilities, do they scale off the "Magic Damage" or "Weapon Damage"?

2) Nightblade Damage abilities, do they earn Critical hits off "Magic Crit" or "Weapon Crit"?

3) Are there certain abilities that scale on each side?

The reasons why I ask is having been a 7 piece Medium armor NB for a while, switching to a 5 piece Medium 2 piece Light, and now trying 7 Piece Light build I have noticed a few things.

1) Regardless of what Armor Piece Sets I am wearing my maximum crit damage average remains relatively constant with around 1780 damage off a rear-concealed weapon attack from stealth in PvE.

2) I dont want to end up "nerfing" myself by going full Night Mothers Gaze when 1.3 hits and my critical % is based off Magic crit vs Weapon crit.

Constructive comments or direct knowledge would be great.

Thanks!

Ido

forbarcusb16_ESO

1) Magic
2) Magic
3) Not that I'm aware of

ron.vaughtnub19_ESO

forbarcusb16_ESO wrote: »

1) Magic
2) Magic
3) Not that I'm aware of

See this is why I asked on the forum. Because just the basic numbers I have seen go opposite. Additionally other forums posts always tend to conflict with each other.

If crit on these attacks are based off magic then my Assassins Blade should not be averaging a 50% crit rate.

Here are the numbers (PVE Only) based on the Ts combat stats addon

Sitting at a 38% to 42% Weapon Crit and a 15-18% magic crit as a 5M/2L NB here are the Average Critical Chance for each ability.

Ambush - 55.8% average Crit Rate
Concealed Weapon - 70.4% Average Crit rate (This is high because of opening rear-attack from stealth and using the Vanish100% crit garuntee with the ability)
Impale - 41.79%

Based on these numbers...your flippant answer is wrong.

Kego

ron.vaughtnub19_ESO wrote: »

1) Nightblade damage abilities, do they scale off the "Magic Damage" or "Weapon Damage"?

Magic Damage.

2) Nightblade Damage abilities, do they earn Critical hits off "Magic Crit" or "Weapon Crit"?

For Crit Chance you have to slot Weapon Crit on "Melee" Attacks like Surprise Attack or Impale, Spell Crit for Casts like Sap Essence or Swallow Soul.

3) Are there certain abilities that scale on each side?

See above with DMG and Crit rating.

The reasons why I ask is having been a 7 piece Medium armor NB for a while, switching to a 5 piece Medium 2 piece Light, and now trying 7 Piece Light build I have noticed a few things.

1) Regardless of what Armor Piece Sets I am wearing my maximum crit damage average remains relatively constant with around 1780 damage off a rear-concealed weapon attack from stealth in PvE.

The DMG of Concealed Attack comes from SpellDMG, the Crit comes from Weapon Crits.

With Light Armor you will get better Non-Crit Attacks, the chance to crit with Medium Armor is therefor higher.

CirithValaria

2) those melee spells (e.g teleport strike, veiled strike, assassins's blade, death stroke) use weapon crit.
Basically if it can crit from stealth, it uses weapon crit.
All use magic for base dmg.

CapuchinSeven

ron.vaughtnub19_ESO wrote: »

forbarcusb16_ESO wrote: »

1) Magic
2) Magic
3) Not that I'm aware of

See this is why I asked on the forum. Because just the basic numbers I have seen go opposite. Additionally other forums posts always tend to conflict with each other.

If crit on these attacks are based off magic then my Assassins Blade should not be averaging a 50% crit rate.

He's wrong.

All Nightblade class abilities use your magic pool for max damage, but if they are a class melee ability, such as Ambush/Soul Harvest, then it uses your melee/weapon critical stat.

In simple terms, using full medium armour will make your Nightblade class abilities critical more, but if you have the same amount of magicka then you will do the same total damage for each hit. Which is what you're seeing.

ron.vaughtnub19_ESO

He's wrong.

All Nightblade class abilities use your magic pool for max damage, but if they are a class melee ability, such as Ambush/Soul Harvest, then it uses your melee/weapon critical stat.

In simple terms, using full medium armour will make your Nightblade class abilities critical more, but if you have the same amount of magicka then you will do the same total damage for each hit. Which is what you're seeing.

Thanks,

I just edited my post to show the raw numbers from T's combat statistics.

So basically what I "think" I am seeing here is Overall efficiency is to max base damage you max your Magicka attribute, and to maximize your crit chance you stack weapon crit....essentially best of both worlds?

TehMagnus

go mage caster => do 1500 dps on trial bosses.
THen adapt at 1.3

Kego

or go quit the game, instead of just using a build that someone just not want to play. That is what I will do. I want to play DW / Bow. As soon as that will no longer be viable, I will leave the Game.

ATM I can go on like it is, but ZOS has to get a balance in their Game with 1.4 and 1.5. That should be prior Nr. 1 for them.

And yes, that involves some Nerf bats on Magicka Builds together with minor Buffs to Weapon Abilities.

ron.vaughtnub19_ESO

Kego wrote: »

or go quit the game, instead of just using a build that someone just not want to play. That is what I will do. I want to play DW / Bow. As soon as that will no longer be viable, I will leave the Game.

ATM I can go on like it is, but ZOS has to get a balance in their Game with 1.4 and 1.5. That should be prior Nr. 1 for them.

And yes, that involves some Nerf bats on Magicka Builds together with minor Buffs to Weapon Abilities.

Agreed there, I do think a NB sits in the middle of this caster vs melee area right now. Ultimately to really achieve balance Zmax should go in and ID individual abilities that should be run off Stam vs Magicka and separate them out. It should have been done in the beginning...almost every class should be this way.

However, what I do really like about this game that you dont find in any other MMO right now is that if a build is "under performing" you can drastically change your entire character without having to roll a new one or switching to an alt. That is real flexibility there.

I think I got the majority of my answer from yall. Best solution for performance as a "true Assasin" imo is to stack all Magicka but stay with a high crit build...which looks to be the 5 Med 2 Light builds for the most part. It might even be better post 1.3 with a 5 NMG, 4 Seducer, and three warlock jewelry.

Thanks all

Sangeet

NB sucks compared to DK/Sorc, the developer tracker did not help, they did not provide any solution. All trial bosses are too melee unfriendly anyway. Bow still does to less damage compared to destruction staff.

Class balance is just to important, and Zenimax just ignores the problem. I know many NB gave up, this is a lost customer base. Who has the nerve to level up another toon for 15 days ingame to VR12, just to be competitive?

kitsinni

ron.vaughtnub19_ESO wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

or go quit the game, instead of just using a build that someone just not want to play. That is what I will do. I want to play DW / Bow. As soon as that will no longer be viable, I will leave the Game.

ATM I can go on like it is, but ZOS has to get a balance in their Game with 1.4 and 1.5. That should be prior Nr. 1 for them.

And yes, that involves some Nerf bats on Magicka Builds together with minor Buffs to Weapon Abilities.

Agreed there, I do think a NB sits in the middle of this caster vs melee area right now. Ultimately to really achieve balance Zmax should go in and ID individual abilities that should be run off Stam vs Magicka and separate them out. It should have been done in the beginning...almost every class should be this way.

However, what I do really like about this game that you dont find in any other MMO right now is that if a build is "under performing" you can drastically change your entire character without having to roll a new one or switching to an alt. That is real flexibility there.

I think I got the majority of my answer from yall. Best solution for performance as a "true Assasin" imo is to stack all Magicka but stay with a high crit build...which looks to be the 5 Med 2 Light builds for the most part. It might even be better post 1.3 with a 5 NMG, 4 Seducer, and three warlock jewelry.

Thanks all

Are you talking "true Assassin" for PvE or PvP? If it is for PvP I would just worry about maximizing Magicka and roll in light armor for the spell resist and magicka recovery. In PvP most will stack armor with infused which will make critting a thing of the past.

Here is the basic rule of thumb. All class skills work and scale off Magic damage. All weapon skills off Weapon damage, that includes staves. As far as crit if it is a melee attack class skill it most likely works off crit.

kitsinni

kitsinni wrote: »

ron.vaughtnub19_ESO wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

or go quit the game, instead of just using a build that someone just not want to play. That is what I will do. I want to play DW / Bow. As soon as that will no longer be viable, I will leave the Game.

ATM I can go on like it is, but ZOS has to get a balance in their Game with 1.4 and 1.5. That should be prior Nr. 1 for them.

And yes, that involves some Nerf bats on Magicka Builds together with minor Buffs to Weapon Abilities.

Agreed there, I do think a NB sits in the middle of this caster vs melee area right now. Ultimately to really achieve balance Zmax should go in and ID individual abilities that should be run off Stam vs Magicka and separate them out. It should have been done in the beginning...almost every class should be this way.

However, what I do really like about this game that you dont find in any other MMO right now is that if a build is "under performing" you can drastically change your entire character without having to roll a new one or switching to an alt. That is real flexibility there.

I think I got the majority of my answer from yall. Best solution for performance as a "true Assasin" imo is to stack all Magicka but stay with a high crit build...which looks to be the 5 Med 2 Light builds for the most part. It might even be better post 1.3 with a 5 NMG, 4 Seducer, and three warlock jewelry.

Thanks all

Are you talking "true Assassin" for PvE or PvP? If it is for PvP I would just worry about maximizing Magicka and roll in light armor for the spell resist and magicka recovery. In PvP most will stack armor with impenetrable which will make critting a thing of the past.

Here is the basic rule of thumb. All class skills work and scale off Magic damage. All weapon skills off Weapon damage, that includes staves. As far as crit if it is a melee attack class skill it most likely works off crit.

Prokonto

got question about Impale coz head opposite things about source of crit that skill.
someone told me it work with magic crit coz its got range bigger than mele even if assasin & killer blades work with mele crit.
someone know with which crit source impale work for shure?
thx

Vuron

Prokonto wrote: »

got question about Impale coz head opposite things about source of crit that skill.
someone told me it work with magic crit coz its got range bigger than mele even if assasin & killer blades work with mele crit.
someone know with which crit source impale work for shure?
thx

Impale works off of weapon crit.

kitsinni

Prokonto wrote: »

got question about Impale coz head opposite things about source of crit that skill.
someone told me it work with magic crit coz its got range bigger than mele even if assasin & killer blades work with mele crit.
someone know with which crit source impale work for shure?
thx

You go off the pre-morph. Since pre-morph Impale is in melee range the morph also works off of weapon crit.

Prokonto

y know that, but someone convinced me that its ranged so its work with magic crit.
thx anyway:)

Azzuria

In the QuakeCon panel this issue was discussed. ZOS looks to be trying to normalize weapon and crit by using which ever of your two stats is higher, giving the player maximum output regardless of their stat.

Kewljag_66_ESO

Like other have stated.

NB class skills are all based off of magika and spell damage

NB class melee skills are based off of weapon crit (medium armor bonuses)
NB class ranged (caster skills) are based off of spell crit.

I run all medium armor and sit at 55% crit and it is very effective. I can take on almost anyone and win if i do everything right, especially if i sneak attack.

As for the NB class melee abilities: They need to use magika because it is the available resource pool, If they were moved to stamina we would be gimped because we already use our stamina for weapon skills, sprint, sneak, block, dodge and cc.

The change i would like to see is to make these NB melee class abilities ALSO based off of weapon damage, but they still need to use magika as their resource pool