[Suggestion] How to Handle Daedric Artifacts.

Logik

Now, before I begin with my suggestions, keep in mind, this is an open suggestion thread, any and all ideas should be welcomed here, and the eventual goal is to get our ideas into a consensus and push it forward to hopefully be adopted and implemented by the awesome developers:)

This concern of mine originated from the unique nature of Daedric Artifacts and the almost unanimous trait they all have: There are individually unique, meaning there is only one of each. Well, how do we possibly begin to implement this into an MMO environment? To quote another post on the Elder Scrolls wiki: We definitely don't want to see, "a dozen Maces of Molag Bal floating around". Well to me, this idea of there only being ONE of each Artifact in the world brings up a interesting and potentially fun end-game mechanic for those hardcore players out there.

The first step is to ensure that, if Daedric artifacts are given to players (and not just reserved to Bosses/NPCs) that only one player can have them at a time. Most Daedric Artifacts are rewarded directly to an adventurer, by Daedra, based on their merits and service to a Daedric Prince. So how do players obtain this Artifact? Well that's easy! In the lore already, for many Artifacts, Daedric Princes already have many tasks, trials and challenges for adventurers to receive said Artifact - not to mention, more can be created for the purpose of expanded content and lore. Many tasks already hinted by lore both fall in the realms of hardcore PvE and hardcore PvP - for examples regarding PvE content I will refer to Malacath's Volendrung, and for examples regarding PvP I will refer to Boethiah's Trial of Ten Bloods, which rewards her renowned Goldbrand. In obtaining Malacath's Volendrung, he essentially requires an adventure to complete some task for him to prove their worth, pretty basic, and it should be, in ESO, a very very difficult challenge, such as beating some impossible world-boss (perhaps solo a tough boss?), something that would set that individual apart from other players, and then, as such, the player is rewarded the Artifact: Volendrung, with it's own amazing and kick-ass statistics and abilities. In obtaining Boethiah's Goldbrand, players must fight and compete in the Trial of Ten Bloods. The top players upon the PvP leaderboards (obtained from perhaps Alliance PvP or something) are selected, one from each race. They are then required to compete in 1v1 arena combat, until one of them is crowned the champion and then they receive the Artifact: Goldbrand.

The second step is where the true issue arises, and the hardest area of designing mechanics comes into play. How do new players obtain the Daedric Artifact from the old player? And how does the old player compete to keep it? Well in the case of the Trial of Ten Bloods, this is rather simple: the current owner of Goldbrand is automatically required to compete in the Trials again, fighting the most recent champion. If he wins he keeps it, if he loses it the new champion receives the Artifact and if he refuses or is not present to attend, Goldbrand is forfeited to the new champion. But how do we handle items obtained via PvE content? Having it decided based on a leaderboard of "how well did someone kick this bosses ass?" seems a bit diluted to me and not very fun. The short answer to this is: I don't know how to solve this, not yet. So I ask you guys, and hopefully, working together we can find a answer. Perhaps you simply lose it on death to another player, this would add the risk of actually owning a Artifact (which, inherently would probably be Overpowered in the first place anyways), maybe another solution is, if there is no way for a player to prove his/her worth or they have not be actively utilizing the Artifact they eventually lose it after a given time, and the NEXT player to obtain it via the methods described wields it for the next period of time. Yet again, I urge you, the readers and enthusiast, to help me with finding an elegant solution, that at the very least SEEMS fun, regardless of how it is in practice.

The third step, and in my honest opinion, the least worrisome of any issues, is the balancing of these Artifacts. It is my firm belief that they SHOULD be ridiculously overpowered. If a hardcore player is willing to dedicate much of their time and efforts to obtaining a specific Artifact, they should be quickly rewarded with the ability to wreck major face. The only case where this should be barred is perhaps the "arena" style combat both in obtaining the Artifact itself and also, for example, the 4v4v4 arenas for PvP, also perhaps considering whatever the end content is for competitive PvE content (if there is any). But other than those few exceptions, if we honestly look at the facts, one overpowered player is not going to drastically change the nature of the huge war raging in Cyrodil, nor is it going to matter if one player just destroys world-bosses.These just don't matter that much in the big picture, and with the exclusivity of Daedric Artifacts and their nature of being EXTREMELY RARE, you won't actually be seeing them much at all. And when you do, I think it should be a proper reaction to basically say, "Holy *** ***, that guy is a boss, I'm going GTFO here,". All in all, I realize balancing is an important issue, because, for example a skilled emperor can destroy entire waves of enemies, but I just think that it should be so and also it's significant to note: these Artifacts should be rarer and more infrequent than even emperors.

This thread is consistently ongoing, and I will be adding more edits, additions, topics, questions and etc. as they arise. The more you comment, suggest, and critique the better this feature could be, and the greater chance that this might actually be considered by the developers:) Let's do the hardest part for them and iron out the kinks in this idea!

Spottswoode

I had a different idea. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/122373/idea-cult-factions#latest
I am glad to see that somebody else wants to use all of the artifacts though. Honestly, I had originally come up with a similar idea to yours, but if we make PVP the mechanic for acquiring Daedric Artifacts we basically tell all of the PVE players to go screw themselves. If we make them exclusive, we basically let nobody but pvpers who sit at their computers 12 hours a day use them. You can have a bunch of the same artifact flying around if you can limit the amount of time you can use it. Having them as ultimates will allow everyone to use them, give an excuse for them to be ridiculously powerful, and limit their influence.
Having the actual items could be permissible, but it shouldn't be limited to people who do nothing but sit around pvp maps.

Logik

Spottswoode wrote: »

I had a different idea. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/122373/idea-cult-factions#latest
I am glad to see that somebody else wants to use all of the artifacts though. Honestly, I had originally come up with a similar idea to yours, but if we make PVP the mechanic for acquiring Daedric Artifacts we basically tell all of the PVE players to go screw themselves. If we make them exclusive, we basically let nobody but pvpers who sit at their computers 12 hours a day use them. You can have a bunch of the same artifact flying around if you can limit the amount of time you can use it. Having them as ultimates will allow everyone to use them, give an excuse for them to be ridiculously powerful, and limit their influence.
Having the actual items could be permissible, but it shouldn't be limited to people who do nothing but sit around pvp maps.

@Spottswoode I mentioned having a mechanic for PvE players to obtain them:) I'm just not creative enough to think of a fun way to do this! That's why I need more help. And also, there a TONS of Artifacts out there, and I think there should be some that are dedicated to hardcore players of all aspects of the game. Some Crafting, some PvE, some PvP, etc. We just have to make sure it's fun! And not diluted to the point where it's boring and broken.

I however do not agree, which is by no means to say your idea might not actually be better, that they should be ultimates. I think that dilutes the purpose of what an Artifact ACTUALLY is! Let me turn you to the example of Werewolves... the idea that their ability be a non-toggle-able ultimate is stupid, diluted and in turn has made and will continue to make Werewolves not fun, not formidable and not interesting.

So here is where I think we both truly separate (and that's okay!) you worry that those players who don't spend a lot of time should have access to it as well, well I'm a big advocate of "don't completely underpower the casual players, but drastically reward the hardcore players". I feel like this is a good way. At even given time there might be, AT BEST, 20 Artifacts out there for each aspect of gameplay. Those 20 Artifacts are going to rare and very very hard to obtain, and I certainly believe those that are the best of the best and are specifically dedicating a lot of their time to obtaining the Artifacts SHOULD be the exclusive owners. And because of all their dedication should also stand out: either in PvE, PvP or whatever. Just not in a TRUE competitive environment, for example, an arena akin to the one WoW has.

As for the idea you linked about having more dedication on the specific cults, I totally agree! And maybe that could be a jumping point for those Daedric Artifact hunters;) The only thing that is a fallback for both your idea AND my own, is that it is A LOT of work for the developers. We would need tons of support to even get them heard!

Logik

@Spottswoode To elaborate more, that one mechanic I gave an example of to obtain Boethiah's Artifact is not the sole method to obtain all Artifacts. I think that each Artifact should have it's own interesting and unique method to obtaining it. Like I mentioned before, I have some ideas for PvE players to obtain Artifacts, I just need help in making the interesting; for example (and these are just basic ideas) soloing a really hard world-boss and getting a rare drop or maybe randomly from mining a rare ore vein, or exploring some very hard to reach area. Then after we come up with that idea that's fun (for each Artifact, as I said the methods are unique), we must figure how a competing player is to obtain the Artifact when it is currently held by another player!

AlexDougherty

Logik wrote: »

This concern of mine originated from the unique nature of Daedric Artifacts and the almost unanimous trait they all have: There are individually unique, meaning there is only one of each.

Actually I would say that's a quality of artifacts rather than of Daedric Artifacts per say, all artifacts are either unique or virtually so.

Well, how do we possibly begin to implement this into an MMO environment? To quote another post on the Elder Scrolls wiki: We definitely don't want to see, "a dozen Maces of Molag Bal floating around". Well to me, this idea of there only being ONE of each Artifact in the world brings up a interesting and potentially fun end-game mechanic for those hardcore players out there.

So basically you want to give the most unbeatable players a weapon that makes them even tougher, hmm, I can't quite put my finger on the problem here

The first step is to ensure that, if Daedric artifacts are given to players (and not just reserved to Bosses/NPCs) that only one player can have them at a time. Most Daedric Artifacts are rewarded directly to an adventurer, by Daedra, based on their merits and service to a Daedric Prince. So how do players obtain this Artifact? Well that's easy! In the lore already, for many Artifacts, Daedric Princes already have many tasks, trials and challenges for adventurers to receive said Artifact - not to mention, more can be created for the purpose of expanded content and lore. Many tasks already hinted by lore both fall in the realms of hardcore PvE and hardcore PvP - for examples regarding PvE content I will refer to Malacath's Volendrung, and for examples regarding PvP I will refer to Boethiah's Trial of Ten Bloods, which rewards her renowned Goldbrand.

The second step is where the true issue arises, and the hardest area of designing mechanics comes into play. How do new players obtain the Daedric Artifact from the old player? And how does the old player compete to keep it? Well in the case of the Trial of Ten Bloods, this is rather simple: the current owner of Goldbrand is automatically required to compete in the Trials again, fighting the most recent champion. If he wins he keeps it, if he loses it the new champion receives the Artifact and if he refuses or is not present to attend, Goldbrand is forfeited to the new champion. But how do we handle items obtained via PvE content? Having it decided based on a leaderboard of "how well did someone kick this bosses ass?" seems a bit diluted to me and not very fun. The short answer to this is: I don't know how to solve this, not yet. So I ask you guys, and hopefully, working together we can find a answer

So let me get this straight, if I complete this trial, which presumably is going to take a couple of hours, I have to then wait while the current weilder has a try at the trials, then defeat him, before I get the artifact. And that's assuming that the current weilder of the artifact is online, because if it can be taken while he's offline, well it would be constantly shifting everytime someone logs off.

The third step, and in my honest opinion, the least worrisome of any issues, is the balancing of these Artifacts. It is my firm belief that they SHOULD be ridiculously overpowered. If a hardcore player is willing to dedicate much of their time and efforts to obtaining a specific Artifact, they should be quickly rewarded with the ability to wreck major face. These just don't matter that much in the big picture, and with the exclusivity of Daedric Artifacts and their nature of being EXTREMELY RARE, you won't actually be seeing them much at all. And when you do, I think it should be a proper reaction to basically say, "Holy *** ***, that guy is a boss, I'm going GTFO here,". All in all, I realize balancing is an important issue, because, for example a skilled emperor can destroy entire waves of enemies, but I just think that it should be so and also it's significant to note: these Artifacts should be rarer and more infrequent than even emperors.

NO,NO,NO. Anything that is that overpowered destroys the game, this is multiplayer, and if one side wades in with something that overpowered, the other side is just going to log out en mass. I sure as hell wouldn't stick around waiting to be pulped by a fool with an artifact. It removes any aspect of skill from the battle.

This thread is consistently ongoing, and I will be adding more edits, additions, topics, questions and etc. as they arise. The more you comment, suggest, and critique the better this feature could be, and the greater chance that this might actually be considered by the developers:) Let's do the hardest part for them and iron out the kinks in this idea!

If it was just a top end weapon with an occassional effect, then maybe it would work, but not an overpowered superweapon. It would destroy PVP totally. It wouldn't be that great for PVE either, since it would reduce the game to a one-hit win button.

Logik

@AlexDougherty

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Actually I would say that's a quality of artifacts rather than of Daedric Artifacts per say, all artifacts are either unique or virtually so.

I mean, if you want to argue semantics, the items in game that colored yellow are actually called "Legendary" or "Artifact" quality gear, and those are a dime-a-dozen. Also whether or not they are really isn't the point of this thread at all, so why even bring it up? I'm talking about, very specifically, Daedric Artifacts, so instead of cutting out a quote just so you can argue with it, focus on your main points as you did later in your post:)

AlexDougherty wrote: »

So basically you want to give the most unbeatable players a weapon that makes them even tougher, hmm, I can't quite put my finger on the problem here

There is no problem per-say. It's an idea, or suggestion, not feedback. I understand your concern, however, sarcasm isn't really necessary. The idea is that they will probably eventually implement Daedric Artifacts, and coming from a RP perspective or even just a lore-fanatic, it wouldn't make sense for Daedric Artifacts to be handed out like candy to everyone, so instead of waiting and complaining when they add it in a way people like myself are going to dislike, then I'd rather be proactive:) And just because your dedicated to the game doesn't mean your unbeatable! A lot of the Artifacts I would want to ensure cover every aspect of gameplay! Having a Daedric Artifact that improves your crafting abilities doesn't really change how "unbeatable" you are in PvE or PvP. And that goes for all Artifacts. I'd hope that Artifacts bring about niche play-styles rather than an outright win button. I'll go into more detail below:)

AlexDougherty wrote: »

So let me get this straight, if I complete this trial, which presumably is going to take a couple of hours, I have to then wait while the current weilder has a try at the trials, then defeat him, before I get the artifact. And that's assuming that the current weilder of the artifact is online, because if it can be taken while he's offline, well it would be constantly shifting everytime someone logs off.

That is one idea out of a million different possible scenarios or methods to potentially obtain an Artifact. Also, that specific idea was more meant to be more a of a scheduled event, possibly biweekly or monthly. Obviously none of these ideas are fleshed out, so that's why I'm asking for input.

AlexDougherty wrote: »

NO,NO,NO. Anything that is that overpowered destroys the game, this is multiplayer, and if one side wades in with something that overpowered, the other side is just going to log out en mass. I sure as hell wouldn't stick around waiting to be pulped by a fool with an artifact. It removes any aspect of skill from the battle.

I totally understand your concern, but take in mind two things: They would be rare, if at all, you'd see them less than you'd see an emperor, but even so, it does make sense that they SHOULD NOT be a win button weapon or armor, or trinket. That was why I pinned game balance as an issue and didn't completely ignore it. I just advocated my views for it, however -ultimately- balance is still a big concern. Adding onto this, keep in mind below when I talk about niche mechanics, maybe there is an obscure way to beat or get the upper-hand on this person with the Artifact. I definitely would want when someone sees this bad-ass person with a Daedric Artifact to recognize that he is formidable, but not unbeatable. With the right skill and the know how, some regular should be able to take this person down or at least get close, and this person with the Artifact also SHOULD NOT be able to take down 10 people on his own, so if he is stacked up against, his weapon or armor or whatever would be rendered utterly useless in the grand scheme of things.

AlexDougherty wrote: »

If it was just a top end weapon with an occassional effect, then maybe it would work, but not an overpowered superweapon. It would destroy PVP totally. It wouldn't be that great for PVE either, since it would reduce the game to a one-hit win button.

I agree! Perhaps your idea might be better:) But I'm not looking for items that result in a one hit win button, but more think about the possible mechanics that you could toy with (Daedric Artifacts aren't all weapons!!). Maybe a weapon who has a niche ability combo, maybe a shield that doesn't take any ranged damage, but doesn't protect from melee damage, maybe a set of armor that blurs the image of the user, but he is still slightly visible, or perhaps a shield that buffs allies but not the wielder, maybe a trinket that adds a special crafting trait or style or just generally improves your skill at crafting. There are one-thousand and one different possibilities! So just keep that in mind:) But, in the end, you could be completely right! Maybe this idea is best just left off the table, not to be implemented. Personally, I just don't want them to be implemented at all if they're going to do so in a diluted, unoriginal way.

Anyways, in conclusion, I am sorry if I was a bit harsh in my responses to you, it just seems at times you were a bit more aggressive than maybe you intended to be, and in turn, I will defend or at least elaborate for better understanding upon my ideas! But that does not change that your points are extremely valid, and are not ignored, even now I putting note to elaborate more on the niche gameplay rather than a win-button type system:) Let me know if you have anything more to add!

UnyieldingFlame

Daedric Artifacts were actually in the PTS beta before the initial launch of the live game, however they were taken out and replace with generic version of daedric weapons such as Flamedancer aka Hopesfire or The Ebon Sledge aka Volendrung for unknown reasons. All that made them special were the fact that they had unique appearance and double enchantments along with a bonus when the set was completed.

They were acquire in the VR dungeons in the PvE zone such as Darkshade Caverns and Wayrest Sewers. These Artifacts are returning though in update 4 to improve itemization in the game, and will be acquire through VR12 dungeons such as Crypt of Hearts.

Logik

UnyieldingFlame wrote: »

Daedric Artifacts were actually in the PTS beta before the initial launch of the live game, however they were taken out and replace with generic version of daedric weapons such as Flamedancer aka Hopesfire or The Ebon Sledge aka Volendrung for unknown reasons. All that made them special were the fact that they had unique appearance and double enchantments along with a bonus when the set was completed.

They were acquire in the VR dungeons in the PvE zone such as Darkshade Caverns and Wayrest Sewers. These Artifacts are returning though in update 4 to improve itemization in the game, and will be acquire through VR12 dungeons such as Crypt of Hearts.

And that's alright too:) Just not the solution I'd personally want to see. But if that happens, it happens and we, the players, will move on, like it or not:P But thanks a ton for the info; Good to know!

cracker81

I think all artifacts are good but I would add in both pvp/pve for all. If it is extremely rare well only the extremely crazy would go for it. The arena match I am sure ppl would want to watch it. The players holdings these weapons will revered and feared across pvp/pve, that is why you would both to get one. Some will say I only pvp or I pve? Well you are obviously not the person that will be wielding it.

Anvos

Personally I think the only way to balance deadrics would be to lock them into pvp only items that have unique powers that are powerful but have a cool down.

Like scrolls they would be drop on death and have a timer before they reset to their home if not picked up (also likely a hot potato rule if you don't use it or kill somebody within a reasonable time).

Unlike the scrolls they wouldn't have a set shrine but rather there is deadric reliquaries (1 for each artifact) that if its lost or the wielder logs or leaves cyrodil the artifact randomly resets to 1 open reliquary.

Each reliquary would generate a large defense of dreamora that have to be defeated before the artifact can be taken when a relic is present to require effort to get it back.

As for the items themselves they'd each be top tier power in their damage or effects. Their unique powers however would be where they truly shine such as

Azura's Star can perform a large aoe resurrect.

Spell Breaker would grant an aoe buff around the wielder that when activated negates all spell damage to those effected.

Sanguine's Rose would summon a deadra or two that attack the target of your staff attacks and absorb damage that would be done to you.

Volendrung would be able to demolish a gate or wall.

Molag Bal's Mace would have an aoe that turns enemy player corpses into soul shriven that protects the wielder.

zgrssd

I would like to have deadric artifacts in the game.
But I do not think having them behind PvE challenges is a good idea if they are unique. PvE is too easy to trick out and exploit.

Maybe make it something closer to the Elder Scrolls and Emperor bonus in PvP?
Currently the title of "Emperor" is "unique" (at least in one instance of Cyrodiil).
Each scroll bonus is also unique (can only be held by one faction per instance).
And in PvP every trick you can do is something your enemy can learn to use too. So it is the only remotely fair "valuing ground".

AlexDougherty

Logik wrote: »

There is no problem per-say. It's an idea, or suggestion, not feedback. I understand your concern, however, sarcasm isn't really necessary.

Yeah, sorry, I was in a funny mood that day.

BBSooner

I would prefer artifacts as an ultimate where a prince temporarily bestows it to you for an attack (similar to dawnbreaker in fighters guild) and then recalls the artifact. They could introduce 'cult' skill lines (cult of dagon) where you do specific deeds or quests to boost your standing in the cult to become worthy of said artifact(ultimate). For example, after climbing the ranks of the Cult of Dagon, I unlock the ultimate that allows Dagon to bestow his Razor upon me for a short time from its resting place in Oblivion, and takes it back after the attack/duration.

Logik

BBSooner wrote: »

I would prefer artifacts as an ultimate where a prince temporarily bestows it to you for an attack (similar to dawnbreaker in fighters guild) and then recalls the artifact. They could introduce 'cult' skill lines (cult of dagon) where you do specific deeds or quests to boost your standing in the cult to become worthy of said artifact(ultimate). For example, after climbing the ranks of the Cult of Dagon, I unlock the ultimate that allows Dagon to bestow his Razor upon me for a short time from its resting place in Oblivion, and takes it back after the attack/duration.

However, how does it make it any different then guild abilities, and et cetra? I will say, that with that idea, it is significantly easier to implement, and covers the lore aspect of it, but to me, it just seems like a half-ass approach (not saying you, more so if the developers did it) to solving it, and a, "slap an ultimate right there!". As I said at the very beginning, that is something I would not personally want, but first: what the players want outweigh both developers and I, and on top of that, what the developers implement outweighs myself anyways.

Logik

Anvos wrote: »

Personally I think the only way to balance deadrics would be to lock them into pvp only items that have unique powers that are powerful but have a cool down.

Like scrolls they would be drop on death and have a timer before they reset to their home if not picked up (also likely a hot potato rule if you don't use it or kill somebody within a reasonable time).

Unlike the scrolls they wouldn't have a set shrine but rather there is deadric reliquaries (1 for each artifact) that if its lost or the wielder logs or leaves cyrodil the artifact randomly resets to 1 open reliquary.

Each reliquary would generate a large defense of dreamora that have to be defeated before the artifact can be taken when a relic is present to require effort to get it back.

As for the items themselves they'd each be top tier power in their damage or effects. Their unique powers however would be where they truly shine such as

Azura's Star can perform a large aoe resurrect.

Spell Breaker would grant an aoe buff around the wielder that when activated negates all spell damage to those effected.

Sanguine's Rose would summon a deadra or two that attack the target of your staff attacks and absorb damage that would be done to you.

Volendrung would be able to demolish a gate or wall.

Molag Bal's Mace would have an aoe that turns enemy player corpses into soul shriven that protects the wielder.

zgrssd wrote: »

I would like to have deadric artifacts in the game.
But I do not think having them behind PvE challenges is a good idea if they are unique. PvE is too easy to trick out and exploit.

Maybe make it something closer to the Elder Scrolls and Emperor bonus in PvP?
Currently the title of "Emperor" is "unique" (at least in one instance of Cyrodiil).
Each scroll bonus is also unique (can only be held by one faction per instance).
And in PvP every trick you can do is something your enemy can learn to use too. So it is the only remotely fair "valuing ground".

@‌zgrssd @Anvos Both of you want to see it as a PvP exclusive feature, well here is the only issue I see with that: What about the other players that want the have a Daedric Artifact? Also from a lore standpoint, not every Artifact is obtained by killing people (though most actually are, thinking about it:P). PvE players would possibly also want to see this feature, and for those PvE players that frequent both aspects of the game, shouldn't be too heavily outweighed because they don't dedicate all their time to PvP (which is something ESO has done a very good job of in so far).

@Anvos To you specifically: Those are great ideas for Artifact abilities! You think like myself and want them to big and bad-ass;) The only issue is however (if you go up and read @AlexDougherty's post) is game balance. Weapons killing players is one thing, but to chance the entire course of a battle by breaking an enitre wall with no effort: that is game-breaking, the mass-resurrect and mass-reanimation, are also game-breaking and can drastically turn the tide of battle (just look at Deathknights in WoW when they were first introduced.... holy ***), negating spell damage for people in the area IS HUGE, considering the primary defense of a keep is through magic! (Perhaps if the negating spell damage was centralized to the player, but even then, all class-abilities as of current are considered magicka damage). The only, potentially not over-powered (too much so, at least) ability is summoning the Daedra, and that would actually be pretty cool:)

Gasgiant

I liked that some one thought to make them ultimates. That could work, allowing many players to have them, just not necessarily at the same time.

Another idea would be that all Daedric artifacts that would have in game models, weapons and armor, would have the appearance of the artifact to the player wearing it, and then a different look that can be almost as badass that everyone else sees. And there could be an option to toggle this on and off, so if you don't care if you see five helms of Clavicus Vile, they show up as normal.

Logik

Gasgiant wrote: »

I liked that some one thought to make them ultimates. That could work, allowing many players to have them, just not necessarily at the same time.

Another idea would be that all Daedric artifacts that would have in game models, weapons and armor, would have the appearance of the artifact to the player wearing it, and then a different look that can be almost as badass that everyone else sees. And there could be an option to toggle this on and off, so if you don't care if you see five helms of Clavicus Vile, they show up as normal.

It could work, but then, like I've mentioned before, look at the Werewolf ultimate ability, and how well that worked out.

Nestor

Logik wrote: »

Like I mentioned before, I have some ideas for PvE players to obtain Artifacts, I just need help in making the interesting;

Make it a complex series of quests. They can mix in Fetch, Kill the Baddie (or Goodie as they are Daedra giving these quests), Find the Artifacts etc. Make it on the scale of some of the Zone MQ's where it takes an evening or two. This could be completely PvE based.

I don't mind that others have a rare or unique artifact, as long as they earned it. So, to that end, Bind these things to the Character, not just the Account, like Achievements are.

aipex8_ESO

I get why you guys want to keep Daedric artifacts actually unique, but the thing is, anything story/lore related in this game assumes that you are the only player (like it's a single player game). After all, your character is supposed to be a unique hero, The Vestige, foretold in the Scrolls. All of your accomplishments in the story are yours and yours alone. Only you defeated Molag Bal. Yet every other person in the game is the same. I can't even create an alt that would storywise be a companion to my main because that alt's story is the same. They are The Vestige as well. When you think of it this way, it doesn't really matter if we can all get the unique Mace of Molag Bal. If you can ignore the fact that everyone you come across is also The Vestige that defeated Molag Bal, you can ignore that they have his mace as well.

nicholaspingasb16_ESO

+1

Logik

aipex8_ESO wrote: »

I get why you guys want to keep Daedric artifacts actually unique, but the thing is, anything story/lore related in this game assumes that you are the only player (like it's a single player game). After all, your character is supposed to be a unique hero, The Vestige, foretold in the Scrolls. All of your accomplishments in the story are yours and yours alone. Only you defeated Molag Bal. Yet every other person in the game is the same. I can't even create an alt that would storywise be a companion to my main because that alt's story is the same. They are The Vestige as well. When you think of it this way, it doesn't really matter if we can all get the unique Mace of Molag Bal. If you can ignore the fact that everyone you come across is also The Vestige that defeated Molag Bal, you can ignore that they have his mace as well.

I understand your point. And I agree, it doesn't really matter right now, or if they implement it in a way that makes it not matter. Sure we all go through the same quest-line and from an IC standpoint we couldn't have "all" done that, but if it's possible to make Daedric Artifacts unique and not follow that same path, why shouldn't we? You could scrap this entire post and say, "welp.. we done everything else this way, might as well do everything in the future the same way!". There is also an entire other world of players, namely, Roleplayers, where that kind of stuff does matter and they Roleplay their characters being unique individuals that are independent of the main storyline.

GnatB

Well, here's my thoughts on the "visible" artifacts:
1. Since we're stuck with PvP in the game, some of them should be PvP oriented, some of them should be PvE oriented.


2. The PvP ones should be unique, (possibly within a campaign?) and initially obtained through some sort of hidden quest (that may be PvE in nature, but take place in Cyrodil/PvP zones). First person to accomplish the quest gets it. It would effectively be some sort of buff that modifies any applicable weapon/armor to be the model of the artifact, and is extremely powerful, but entirely limited to working within PvP zones. However, being a PvP artifact, if/when you die via direct damage, your slayer immediately acquires the artifact. To prevent owners "playing it safe" or just quiting the game with the artifact, these would, naturally, be the more bloodthirsty artifacts. If the owner doesn't kill a certain number of enemies in a week, the artifact escapes his control, and the quest to claim it becomes active again.


3. The PvE ones, on the other hand, would *not* be unique. We are *all* the unique hero vestige, along with the unique hero of everything else in the story/quest lines, so having us each gain "unique" artifacts isn't any more or less immersion breaking. They would presumably also be earned through some sort of PvE quest, whether it's rising to the top of a new faction, or accomplishing some hidden goal that the game secretly keeps track of. (Think more EQ1 style quests, none of the handholding that exists in more modern MMO's) Again, these artifacts would all have a special/unique look. However, to prevent it looking like half the people in the world have a GoldBrand, each artifact item would have a "plain" normal appearance. (that can possibly be customized by the player, if applicable) If you have the artifact, everybody elses version would show the "plain" appearance. If you don't have the artifact, then it shows up on the first person who has it that your client has loaded, and if anybody else has it, it shows up in the "plain" version. These items would be more powerful than most drops, but less effective power than the PvP ones.

As for the "non visible" artifacts. No problem there. There's no way anybody knows what any non-visible items somebody else has. So, basically just like point 3.