I can't be the only one (stealth complaint)

rsiloliveiraub17_ESO

Am I the only one that thinks stealth is a bigger deal in AvA than it should?

I mean, I like the fact that I can stay hidden, surprise attack enemies and stuff. But the fact that you can be 100% invisible upsets me.

In most games stealth is not available like that for everyone, I know it comes from the previous TES games, but it just doesn't seem right.

In other games, if you like stealth you take a class/race that benefits from it, have skills to make you invisible and such, but its not for everyone and not that easy.

I don't know, maybe I just like more open fights where you rely more on strategy on the battlefield than the fact that you can hide a big group just pressing a button.

Nox_Aeterna

You are not the only one , i have seem others appear to think like that.

Still , im not one of them.

Im quite happy about how stealth works and how it allows even my templar to get a shot at it , not only NBs.

Bramir

In some iteration of PnP D&D, the main difference between a character designed to be stealthy and anyone else trying to hide was the amount of cover required to even be allowed a 'roll' to pull it off. Hiding in the open or in plain sight was purely the realm of rogue characters...

In Cyrodil, entire armies can hide in the open without any cover...that is silly.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

Stealth in ESO has one thing in common with stealth of TES games. Icon change of crosshair. In ESO stealth is like 3000% boosted version of TES stealth. I don't like it as it has zero restrictions. In TES you can not dissapear from open place by pressing crouch button. Enemies will still see you.
In ESO you are hidden even if you wear a pink hat and stand on 5mm tall grass during sunny day. Dumb yes?

rsiloliveiraub17_ESO

Yes, that is exactly what I think. The fact that you can just vanish from sight just by leaving the battle is just ridiculous.

The only "penalty" you get by stealthing is the stamina burn, but its so low and you can recover when you are not moving.

100% invisibility should be something only rogue type characters could use.

What I would like to see in AvA is some kind of unity that could break stealth in a large radius, like a tower that you could put in the middle of battle or something.

seanolan

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »

Stealth in ESO has one thing in common with stealth of TES games. Icon change of crosshair. In ESO stealth is like 3000% boosted version of TES stealth. I don't like it as it has zero restrictions. In TES you can not dissapear from open place by pressing crouch button. Enemies will still see you.
In ESO you are hidden even if you wear a pink hat and stand on 5mm tall grass during sunny day. Dumb yes?

Dunno which TES games YOU were playing, but in Oblivion and Skyrim, if you got stealth high enough (didn't necessarily have to be above 100), you could EASILY disappear from an open place by pressing the crouch button and enemies could NOT see you. In fact, in Skyrim, if you did exceed 100 on stealth via enchants or potions you could even attack the mobs from right in front of them and they still wouldn't detect you.

Dleatherus

rsiloliveiraub17_ESO wrote: »

What I would like to see in AvA is some kind of unity that could break spell in a large radius, like a tower that you could put in the middle of battle or something.

it's called caltrops

D.

Nermy

Dleatherus wrote: »

rsiloliveiraub17_ESO wrote: »

What I would like to see in AvA is some kind of unity that could break spell in a large radius, like a tower that you could put in the middle of battle or something.

it's called caltrops

D.

Arrrr...

I love stealth. I maybe a NB but I think it's great for any class. Though I do think there should be more of a penalty in stamina and for heavy armour wearers...

madangrypally

I like how stealth is done in the game and do not want it limited to just 1 class. There are a few tweaks I wouldnt mind seeing.

1: Steath characters still cast a shadow. Thus if they are in an open field or out in the open with no cover enemy players will be able to see the shadow.

Shadows in game are small and it would take skill to notice them, but the more stealthed the easier enemies can detect them.

2: Stealth characters still cause water ripples when traveling over water.

3: Stealth characters in snow leave footprints. (and make all characters leave footprints in snow if they do not already).

The above would not ruin stealth but add flavor to it.

Cody

I think NBs should be BETTER at it. I don't think they should be the only ones that can do it, but they are the "stealth class" so it makes no sense that a heavily armored dragonkinght can sneak as well as a medium armored nightblade. at least that's what I think.

Durham

NookyZooky wrote: »

I think NBs should be BETTER at it. I don't think they should be the only ones that can do it, but they are the "stealth class" so it makes no sense that a heavily armored dragonkinght can sneak as well as a medium armored nightblade. at least that's what I think.

First of all Dk are at weakest in heavy lol if i see a dragon knight in heavy its easy pickings for me...
Secound heavy is just plain bad in stealth easily seen.. endo issues

I play stealth dragon knight I use medium and light... i run with nightblades they are faster and have better stealth period....

Durham

A vamp nightblade moves at insane speeds in stealth as fast as i can sprint unstealthed... combine that with 3 secs of invisable they are gone... sorry but i cant do that..

SoulScream

I like stealth except for when NB poof away mid fight and you can't find them grrr

Buck

Seeing that everyone can go invisible makes a NB pointless. It's a ridiculous concept to have a class like a NB have invisibility then go ahead and give it to all the classes, whether it's a potion or just crouch. My NB feels lame to even play like this so I stopped playing him, and the fact stealth is broken on him makes it all the more useless. But this is just my opinion.

Nerf invisibility potions to the point the aren't in the game, or break them like my stealth is now!

-a sorc can bolt escape away pop and invis pot... why can't I have a bolt escape pot then too? oh that would *** a lot of sorc off wouldn't it? not so original then are ya? but this is all gonna be the same crap with spellcrafting - the ZOS way of balance is no originality.

Halrloprillalar

Buck wrote: »

Seeing that everyone can go invisible makes a NB pointless. It's a ridiculous concept to have a class like a NB have invisibility then go ahead and give it to all the classes, whether it's a potion or just crouch. My NB feels lame to even play like this so I stopped playing him, and the fact stealth is broken on him makes it all the more useless. But this is just my opinion.

Nerf invisibility potions to the point the aren't in the game, or break them like my stealth is now!

-a sorc can bolt escape away pop and invis pot... why can't I have a bolt escape pot then too? oh that would *** a lot of sorc off wouldn't it? not so original then are ya? but this is all gonna be the same crap with spellcrafting - the ZOS way of balance is no originality.

People like burning their gold/mats on pots, why does this bother you? They just spent 100-200g to escape you, be happy.

I've stopped using crafted pots because it would bankrupt me from how much I pvp.

frwinters_ESO

What I am not liking about stealth is the ability to locate someone. Example being if your wearing light armor, and have no racial passives or potions or magic to help conceal you, it should be a lot easier to find you. Medium armor is designed to be the sneaky armor and in AvA I am not seeing a big difference in detection.

Buck

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

why does this bother you?

I just explained my opinion... strips originality from the class. I don't care if they go broke it has nothing to do with what I said. It shouldn't be an option to begin with... IMO.

Cody

Durham wrote: »

NookyZooky wrote: »

I think NBs should be BETTER at it. I don't think they should be the only ones that can do it, but they are the "stealth class" so it makes no sense that a heavily armored dragonkinght can sneak as well as a medium armored nightblade. at least that's what I think.

First of all Dk are at weakest in heavy lol if i see a dragon knight in heavy its easy pickings for me...
Secound heavy is just plain bad in stealth easily seen.. endo issues

I play stealth dragon knight I use medium and light... i run with nightblades they are faster and have better stealth period....

you don't understand what I meant. im not talking about abilities and passives, im talking about how the stealth mechanics themselves work. a heavily armored DK can crouch, in broad daylight, and not be seen, and move while stealthed, in broad daylight, and not be seen.
NBs are the exact same way in this game. that is a problem.
yeah NBs can move faster, but every class can sneak just as well as the other.
the NB is the "stealth class" they should be able to sneak BETTER than the other classes. I don't mean movement speed; I mean SNEAK BETTER.
every class has something that makes it stand out. DKs can take a crap ton of damage, and still stay alive, while being able to beat the crap out of you. Templars have the best burst heals in the game. sorcerers have the best versatility and mobility. what does the NB have atm? an invisibility spell that is bugged and can be replicated by all the other classes with a potion? the rogue class should be the one that can sneak around in broaddaylight, not classes that are not even focused on stealth.

Halrloprillalar

Buck wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

why does this bother you?

I just explained my opinion... strips originality from the class. I don't care if they go broke it has nothing to do with what I said. It shouldn't be an option to begin with... IMO.

Then I would argue NBs shouldn't be able to spam aoe like everyone else?

Buck

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Buck wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

why does this bother you?

I just explained my opinion... strips originality from the class. I don't care if they go broke it has nothing to do with what I said. It shouldn't be an option to begin with... IMO.

Then I would argue NBs shouldn't be able to spam aoe like everyone else?

...and I would agree no one should be able to spam aoe's. I made a thread about the lack of skill it takes to spam... but I don't see your point... (?)

Samadhi

NookyZooky wrote: »

...
yeah NBs can move faster, but every class can sneak just as well as the other.
the NB is the "stealth class" they should be able to sneak BETTER than the other classes. I don't mean movement speed; I mean SNEAK BETTER.
...

For sneak speed
Nightblade Vampire > All other classes as vampire > regular Nightblade.

So even in terms of the speed category, Nightblade is not all that special. Vampire does sneak speed better.

Halrloprillalar

Buck wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Buck wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

why does this bother you?

I just explained my opinion... strips originality from the class. I don't care if they go broke it has nothing to do with what I said. It shouldn't be an option to begin with... IMO.

Then I would argue NBs shouldn't be able to spam aoe like everyone else?

...and I would agree no one should be able to spam aoe's. I made a thread about the lack of skill it takes to spam... but I don't see your point... (?)

I don't really see how potions make your class invalid either

Lettigall

Ok let make stealth super real. You can hide only crawling or by using camouflage. And you can't hide 100% when you move and when you move you must go veeeery slow, like in rl. It's a game and hiding and sneaking is simplified.

Giving ability to stealth only to 1 class would force pvpers to reroll to NB or move only in groups. Even casters would be easily killed by small group NB with bows without even seeing enemy(before saying magelight check range of ml and bow abilities).

Then in order to balance, ZoS would be forced to restrict NB melee weapons only. Basically it would mean that you can't use any weapon with any class. NB only DW, templars 2h, DK sword+shield and sorc sticks. It wouldn't sound like TES game does it?

kijima

Durham wrote: »

A vamp nightblade moves at insane speeds in stealth as fast as i can sprint unstealthed... combine that with 3 secs of invisable they are gone... sorry but i cant do that..

From personal experience, with some stamina regen and stamina enchanted Nights Silence armour, 3 items of more from memory gives you currently a 220% faster stealth movement speed, basically I can sprint at horse speed in dark cloak, it's hilariously funny.

What I like to do in PvP is to pop dark cloak then ambush the enemy and if you don't drop him in under 3 seconds you can stealth out of the crime scene at serious speed. Then sit perched up on a rock 100's of meters away at the player lol'ing while he has his mage light out looking for you in close proximity of where you stealthed from.

As an NB with that armour, it's my favorite 'fun thing to do while in Cyrodiil' and I've yet to lose a footrace (had a few last night, and few a few months back) and with the right armour, its awesome. I might have to pick up the stead mundas before they change the armour and see just how much speed I can pick up.

Kewljag_66_ESO

The only thing i would like to see is medium armor users really excel at sneaking, right now the passives that medium armor recive for sneaking is very little, Light and heavy armor are almost just as effective.

(1) i would like to see medium armor sneak bonuses increased another 20% and give medium armor the ability to see enemy players in sneak from further away (30% increase), just see them not uncover them. this way you can go in for the sneak attack. if the enemy player has the same amount of medium armor pieces the bonuses cancel each other out.

(2) light armor and heavy armor's sneak movement endurance usage also drain while not moving (very slow). this way they have to come out of sneak at times or lose all stamina. this would also really give medium armor that sneaking purpose it needs

Samadhi

kijima wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

A vamp nightblade moves at insane speeds in stealth as fast as i can sprint unstealthed... combine that with 3 secs of invisable they are gone... sorry but i cant do that..

From personal experience, with some stamina regen and stamina enchanted Nights Silence armour, 3 items of more from memory gives you currently a 220% faster stealth movement speed, basically I can sprint at horse speed in dark cloak, it's hilariously funny.

...

Night's Silence is currently bugged.
With 3 pieces equipped my stealth move speed and invisibility move speed do not change at all.

kijima

It's working for me as of last night, I put on my set of 5 of nights silence as I wanted a change of look and found it's working. 100% confirmed for me, not sure why it's not working for you.

I'm led to believe once 1.3 gets patched it's going back to 60%, at least from what I've read that's the case.

But right now, I'm literally sprinting while under dark cloak.

Samadhi

kijima wrote: »

It's working for me as of last night, I put on my set of 5 of nights silence as I wanted a change of look and found it's working. 100% confirmed for me, not sure why it's not working for you.

I'm led to believe once 1.3 gets patched it's going back to 60%, at least from what I've read that's the case.

But right now, I'm literally sprinting while under dark cloak.

Tested multiple times since the set was changed to the 220% sneak speed version a few weeks ago, not working.

Tested again today before writing my post, set still not working.

You're the first person I have seen to claim this set is working.

I move at almost sprint speed while under Cloak simply due to Concealed Weapon 25% stealth speed bonus.

kijima

I'll check again tonight when I get home, I too had concealed weapon on my bar at the time but I've found that dark cloak and what is described as 'stealthed movement' in the tooltip aren't always the same thing. Being an VR12 NB and having played that character since the first beta's I've been through my fair share of broken NB mechanics.

I'm talking about dark cloak, just to be sure. Forgive me if I'm wrong, as you've said under cloak, are we talking about the same thing here? In Dark cloak when not crouched I'm flat out sprinting at a serious pace.

Last night on the way to an outpost that was lit up on Dawnbreaker, I ran past a guildie on his 'fast' horse while in dark cloak and did it with noticeable ease.

But, since you say it's broken (and I've read that elsewhere) I'll try again tonight. Sure was working for me though.

I have found that with some gear and skill lines, logging right out and logging back in will change quite a few things, fix skill lines etc that get 'stuck' (sorry, can't think of a better computer coding term than that) maybe give that a go.

I've never bothered to learn how to record what I'm doing in video, I might have a look at that tonight too as I'd be happy to post up videos of it, if indeed it's working and working well!

I've been reading the PTS server and things are changing, so how knows how it will go, but 220% (if that's what it really is) is pretty funny.

Samadhi

kijima wrote: »

...
I'm talking about dark cloak, just to be sure. Forgive me if I'm wrong, as you've said under cloak, are we talking about the same thing here? In Dark cloak when not crouched I'm flat out sprinting at a serious pace.
...

Yes. Referring to Cloak skill in Shadow line, non-crouched speed.
I also tested it with crouched speed as well.
Nothing I tried gave any bonus with the set on.

I tested my speeds with a stopwatch to compare the speeds.

I could not get Night's Silence to work for me before becoming a Vampire, nor could I get it to work as a Vampire.
It did not give me speed boost to crouch, nor to Cloak.
I was thoroughly disappointed.

Concealed Weapon certainly works though. Both with non-crouched Cloak as well as crouched speeds.

I'm hoping the set works as stated when 1.3 changes it to 60% bonus.
I intend to test it both as a Vampire and after being cured once the patch comes.

Tintinabula

I love stealth. I just wish that when in the middle of a sunny road my ability to stay in stealth mode would decrease at a longer range. Like sure in grass and shade..near objects..leave stealth as it is..but when crossing that naked sunlit road..make me become visible.

Oh and currently stealth bugs out on occasion. I can see enemies stealth shadow at a certain range