Could the Justice System break immersion?

SirAndy

I see banks becoming the hot-spot for bounty hunting. Gank 'em while they're busy banking ...
;-)

DenverRalphy

Evergnar wrote: »

It would be great if guilty players were actually put in the stocks so we could all throw rotten veggies at em. That would be most immersive.

Especially if you could, as the guilty party that got caught, opt to pay the bounty, or sit in the stocks until enough people threw enough rotten veggies, kicked you in the butt, or chucked a stone at you. All of which costs other players resources to do it. So buttkicks would be free but also reduced your sentence the least, tomatoes cheap, stones expensive but most effective at reducing your sentence and as well degrades your equipment forcing a repair after you're free. Or you could just leave your character alone for 24hrs and let the sentence ride itself out. The incentive for other players to waste resources helping you out would need to be rewarded though.

DenverRalphy

SirAndy wrote: »

I see banks becoming the hot-spot for bounty hunting. Gank 'em while they're busy banking ...
;-)

Ah yes... Memories of my SWG Bounty Hunter camping starports to hunt unwary Jedi brings back fond memories (until SWG revamped the entire game anyway).

Evergnar

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Evergnar wrote: »

It would be great if guilty players were actually put in the stocks so we could all throw rotten veggies at em. That would be most immersive.

Especially if you could, as the guilty party that got caught, opt to pay the bounty, or sit in the stocks until enough people threw enough rotten veggies, kicked you in the butt, or chucked a stone at you. All of which costs other players resources to do it. So buttkicks would be free but also reduced your sentence the least, tomatoes cheap, stones expensive but most effective at reducing your sentence and as well degrades your equipment forcing a repair after you're free. Or you could just leave your character alone for 24hrs and let the sentence ride itself out. The incentive for other players to waste resources helping you out would need to be rewarded though.

love it

Nox_Aeterna

Audigy wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

The_Sadist wrote: »

We don't know how the system works just yet, so there's no point speculating. Odds are specific NPCs will be made immune to death and all that jazz to prevent griefing and whatnot.
Ultimately you'll have to wait and see.

Judging by the video footage, non-quest NPCs will be turned into non-aggro mobs (yellow aura instead of red aura).
I presume all quest NPCs and merchants will remain untargettable NPCs as in their current incarnation.

Maybe they will add more killable NPCs to populate the cities further.

While I see where you are coming from, I do hope that this wont be the case. To limit the "pvp" to only specific mobs, because that's what those NPCs will be, would limit the world pvp again in such a drastic way, that we end up having WOW pvp where only guards can be killed.

I think that it is important that also merchants must be killable, for a higher bounty if you like. It must matter if you kill, else its again a great future dumped down for the "carebears".

You might want it , but i get to the back or shop and the NPC is dead because of some *** , i will be pissed.

Not that i think they will alow such a thing anyway.

MercyKilling

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

There's that word again. People need to stop throwing the word immersion round in the wrong context. This would actually add to the immersion because it increases your interaction with the world.

Actually, it is breaking immersion because it makes me not want to play. It's DECREASING my interaction with the game as a whole.

For the record, I see this as a huge step in the wrong direction. I forsee it being used to grief and troll other players quite a bit, not to mention nobody's thought of this little tidbit:

With the addition of this "feature", Zenimax has shut down collecting provisioning mats anywhere but in dungeons. No more town trips to collect your recipe ingredients.

Samadhi

MercyKilling wrote: »

...
With the addition of this "feature", Zenimax has shut down collecting provisioning mats anywhere but in dungeons. No more town trips to collect your recipe ingredients.

I actually wondered about that when I saw the video as well.

Perhaps they will only have container contents count as "stolen" if they are picked up while in sneak (I noticed in the video they were in sneak both times they were showing off the feature).

Nazon_Katts

The justice system will hit as hard as a firebomb. A mainly solo PvE experience gets Zerg vs Zerg PvP added. That's gonna be good for some explosive moments. And you'll never know where it hits next.

Evergnar

Samadhi wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

...
With the addition of this "feature", Zenimax has shut down collecting provisioning mats anywhere but in dungeons. No more town trips to collect your recipe ingredients.

I actually wondered about that when I saw the video as well.

Perhaps they will only have container contents count as "stolen" if they are picked up while in sneak (I noticed in the video they were in sneak both times they were showing off the feature).

There are plenty of containers outside cities. Maybe not as numerous in a centralized area but still plenty. I also wouldn't be surprised if fighters and mages guild halls are open to looting for members.

DenverRalphy

Evergnar wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

...
With the addition of this "feature", Zenimax has shut down collecting provisioning mats anywhere but in dungeons. No more town trips to collect your recipe ingredients.

I actually wondered about that when I saw the video as well.

Perhaps they will only have container contents count as "stolen" if they are picked up while in sneak (I noticed in the video they were in sneak both times they were showing off the feature).

There are plenty of containers outside cities. Maybe not as numerous in a centralized area but still plenty. I also wouldn't be surprised if fighters and mages guild halls are open to looting for members.

This.

As well as castles and homes usually become free for all after completing a city/town quest line. Basically the inhabitants of the zone say "anything you need... It's yours you Savior you!"

After a quest objective is completed, it's only vendor/merchant trunks/containers that are flagged for the Justice system.

Laura

Hmmm I'm surprised anyone is still talking about immersion with this on the way



Don't know why I sacrificed the minimap and robust addons when I'm just going to go to town and see a bunch of people in hot pink armor and bright fruity colors.

I think that will break your immersion way more than the justice system or any UI elements ever would have.

Evergnar

Laura wrote: »

Hmmm I'm surprised anyone is still talking about immersion with this on the way



Don't know why I sacrificed the minimap and robust addons when I'm just going to go to town and see a bunch of people in hot pink armor and bright fruity colors.

I think that will break your immersion way more than the justice system or any UI elements ever would have.

My fear exactly. It should be a crime to look that ugly. Incorporate it into the justice system.

Zorrashi

Evergnar wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

Hmmm I'm surprised anyone is still talking about immersion with this on the way



Don't know why I sacrificed the minimap and robust addons when I'm just going to go to town and see a bunch of people in hot pink armor and bright fruity colors.

I think that will break your immersion way more than the justice system or any UI elements ever would have.

My fear exactly. It should be a crime to look that ugly. Incorporate it into the justice system.

Put it under "indecent exposure" or "public indecency". Same goes with people who don't have anything on. How dare they come into this public city wearing no armor! Arrest them!

Phantax

If Zenimax get this right (listen to what the players want AND get the mechanics of it correct) this could be that one thing that sets ESO on the path to becoming #1 MMO.

Archaole

I honestly do not think that important npcs will be targets. I also wouldn't be surprised if they altered the loot system in,a way that wouldn't givde thieves control over the market.

Audigy

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

The_Sadist wrote: »

We don't know how the system works just yet, so there's no point speculating. Odds are specific NPCs will be made immune to death and all that jazz to prevent griefing and whatnot.
Ultimately you'll have to wait and see.

Judging by the video footage, non-quest NPCs will be turned into non-aggro mobs (yellow aura instead of red aura).
I presume all quest NPCs and merchants will remain untargettable NPCs as in their current incarnation.

Maybe they will add more killable NPCs to populate the cities further.

While I see where you are coming from, I do hope that this wont be the case. To limit the "pvp" to only specific mobs, because that's what those NPCs will be, would limit the world pvp again in such a drastic way, that we end up having WOW pvp where only guards can be killed.

I think that it is important that also merchants must be killable, for a higher bounty if you like. It must matter if you kill, else its again a great future dumped down for the "carebears".

You might want it , but i get to the back or shop and the NPC is dead because of some *** , i will be pissed.

Not that i think they will alow such a thing anyway.

I didn't say I want to kill shop keepers, but I think its important to be able to. If its only some pointless NPC that has no meaning, why risk a bounty for it?

I also don't understand why you need to swear instantly again, people who use that feature are not bad people, they just play a game - nothing to get upset about.

Nox_Aeterna

Audigy wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

The_Sadist wrote: »

We don't know how the system works just yet, so there's no point speculating. Odds are specific NPCs will be made immune to death and all that jazz to prevent griefing and whatnot.
Ultimately you'll have to wait and see.

Judging by the video footage, non-quest NPCs will be turned into non-aggro mobs (yellow aura instead of red aura).
I presume all quest NPCs and merchants will remain untargettable NPCs as in their current incarnation.

Maybe they will add more killable NPCs to populate the cities further.

While I see where you are coming from, I do hope that this wont be the case. To limit the "pvp" to only specific mobs, because that's what those NPCs will be, would limit the world pvp again in such a drastic way, that we end up having WOW pvp where only guards can be killed.

I think that it is important that also merchants must be killable, for a higher bounty if you like. It must matter if you kill, else its again a great future dumped down for the "carebears".

You might want it , but i get to the back or shop and the NPC is dead because of some *** , i will be pissed.

Not that i think they will alow such a thing anyway.

I didn't say I want to kill shop keepers, but I think its important to be able to. If its only some pointless NPC that has no meaning, why risk a bounty for it?

I also don't understand why you need to swear instantly again, people who use that feature are not bad people, they just play a game - nothing to get upset about.

Might not upset you , if i have to waste my time trying to guess which banks/shops are still working and which people decided to have fun and killed the NPCs each time , i would get annoyed.

I dont care if they add drops to the NPCs or something else that gives people a reason to kill normal NPCs , because that does not get in my way , same with this whole justice system.

In the end , this is a mini game of cops and robbers for people in the game , not everyone wants to take part in it.

ExiledKhallisi

If your version of immersion = a peaceful world where no one gets in trouble or killed for stealing/mudering....then....your mind is skewed.

Nazon_Katts

Well, if it was just one player picking his targets in town, then we probably won't have all that much trouble. But when it's a horde of players competing for targets on their advertised 'sociopathic killing spree' tour, things probably will get messy. If that's a good thing or not, depends a bit in which group you're in, when, where and how often it happens.

If you're just looking to do your solo questing and the business in towns it involves, this could be a rather disturbing event. And if it's a constant scenario that's happening all over the place, I can imagine that this might be very detrimental to the gaming experience of quite a few players.

I had always thought the killing of NPCs to be tied to quests in order to prevent mass murdering raids, but it seems to the contrary it is very much encouraged by making them FFA targets. While a perfect stage for world PvP, there's a certain chance this will end up in endless fightings and be quite bothersome to those, who have no interest in this at all.

ExiledKhallisi

matt3k wrote: »

All I know is I will have a bounty on my head, often, being I accidentally right-click to interact with NPC's all the time.

Good thing right click is block

Audigy

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Well, if it was just one player picking his targets in town, then we probably won't have all that much trouble. But when it's a horde of players competing for targets on their advertised 'sociopathic killing spree' tour, things probably will get messy. If that's a good thing or not, depends a bit in which group you're in, when, where and how often it happens.

If you're just looking to do your solo questing and the business in towns it involves, this could be a rather disturbing event. And if it's a constant scenario that's happening all over the place, I can imagine that this might be very detrimental to the gaming experience of quite a few players.

I had always thought the killing of NPCs to be tied to quests in order to prevent mass murdering raids, but it seems to the contrary it is very much encouraged by making them FFA targets. While a perfect stage for world PvP, there's a certain chance this will end up in endless fightings and be quite bothersome to those, who have no interest in this at all.

Well,

I believe that Quest NPCs are phased anyways, so if you are starting a quest at level 1-49, then the guy on level 50 already did the quest and is in a different phase and wont mess with your NPC. So leveling up shouldn't be in any danger.

A lot of the NPCs that have quests work like that, that's why there is so much "hate" towards ZO here

Quest NPCs might die, but in a phase that isn't of any concern for questers I think.

As for shop keepers, personally I think they should be killable as explained above. To me even though I would play a guard, killing a pointless NPC that has no real "place in Tamriel" would be not worth it.
Maybe other players think different there, but these bounties will be a big issue once you have one - everyone will be able to kill you, so that doing stuff in a city will become impossible for you. Keep in mind, a bounty wont be gone If you died. It will be on your head until you pay it. (based on video footage)

No more bank stuff, no vendoring, no crafting - its going to be over until you pay would you risk all this for killing a no name NPC?

Fleymark

Am I blind or crazy or is there no green post in this thread?

Arsenic_Touch

Fleymark wrote: »

Am I blind or crazy or is there no green post in this thread?

Blind? no. Crazy? yes. And yes there's a symbol that a mod posted but it's not there. Used to be a bug when they modified something in the thread, it would flag it as a mod posted. They fixed it a while ago, looks like it broke again or a mod posted and deleted their post and the software doesn't differentiate.

DenverRalphy

Fleymark wrote: »

Am I blind or crazy or is there no green post in this thread?

Is there supposed to be? The Justice System is a future addition that hasn't been finalized yet. It's still a work in progress. What exactly do you want to know that you may assume is a lock in feature or content? Do you really expect a response other than 'you'll see".

ianangelospreub18_ESO

I am not gonna comment on this one much, all I will say is we simply don't have enough info for even decent speculation yet in my mind so I am going to wait and see.

Nazon_Katts

I find the aoe spamming in cities annoying enough, if I constantly find groups of robbers and coppers fighting it out in every town, it'll be worse. Unthinkable if that even would negate access to vital NPCs. So here's hoping there's robust systems in place to prevent that from happening.

Killable quest-givers, vendors or bankers are out of the question, as that would just lead to griefing pretty much right from the start. I suspect there'll be plenty of bugs for the griefers to exploit anyways, so there's no need to support that any way further.

Mixing PvE with PvP generally is a bad idea. PvP'ers usually ain't fond of PvE in their PvP and vice versa it's probably much less liked. Keeping this certain setup of semi-consensual PvP In check so it doesn't interfere with PvE experience is no easy task, rather a bold one.

Fleymark

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Am I blind or crazy or is there no green post in this thread?

Is there supposed to be? The Justice System is a future addition that hasn't been finalized yet. It's still a work in progress. What exactly do you want to know that you may assume is a lock in feature or content? Do you really expect a response other than 'you'll see".

Uh, there's a green logo on the thread. No green post that I can see, tho.

Hamfast

I had many of the same questions, I would have asked Paul at QuakeCon but he did not drop by the gossip lounge while I was there. I did ask about it, but my fears were not alleviated, When the essential method of getting the materials for one of the useful crafting professions could be blocked (Going into a house and looking in every draw and trunk, taking their food and waltzing out) with a justice system that could cause you to have to pay a fine and lose the materials you collected.

On another note with the Justice System video, a player will need to get a higher bounty to become KOS then the little one from stealing a few things, and killing a KOS person will not necessarily remove the KOS flag. We also do not know what benefit a player will get for killing another player (Guard/Bounty Killer vs Criminal)... Personally, if the bounty gets high enough, I would like to see the Death caused be permanent... pay for your crimes like other NPC criminals do.

While it's of a similar nature, but a different topic, the idea of Duels has also been looked into, but they are determined to make sure that when they add it, it will not allow or discourage spamming requests and the epeen abuse that follows a refusal to fight.

DenverRalphy

Fleymark wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Am I blind or crazy or is there no green post in this thread?

Is there supposed to be? The Justice System is a future addition that hasn't been finalized yet. It's still a work in progress. What exactly do you want to know that you may assume is a lock in feature or content? Do you really expect a response other than 'you'll see".

Uh, there's a green logo on the thread. No green post that I can see, tho.

My guess would be that a dev or mod "considered" responding, started to draft a response, then thought better of it. But their response was saved as a "draft" before they realized that they should say nothing. (the forum software used on this site isn't the greatest)

Logan9a

Tabbycat wrote: »

I think at first people will probably go around killing NPCs. But once they start getting bounties on their heads and can't moving anywhere without everyone in sight wanting to kill them... well I think that would get old pretty fast.

We'll see. However, the first law of MMO's is that if abuse and being a d***head are possible, the players will (nay, must!) do so.

And I'm not sure how many times people will find 'Oh - the banker (or my quest NPC) is dead before that crap gets real old real fast.