Grouping tool - Two improvements that would make grouping much better

kitsinni

I think everyone agrees that the grouping tool needs some serious help. I think there are two major improvements that could help it a lot.

1) Don't group people until there is a full group ready to go. As it currently stands you can have a group of Tank, Healer and DPS waiting on another DPS then there is a group with two DPS sitting around waiting for a group. If you just wait for a full group you won't have people waiting when there is enough people in queue for a dungeon to start.

2) Allow people to pick more than one dungeon to queue for. There are a lot of times I just want to run a dungeon V5+ and I don't really care which one. If we could queue for more than one at once then we wouldn't all be sitting around waiting as long.

NorthernFury

Great suggestions

NewBlacksmurf

kitsinni wrote: »

I think everyone agrees that the grouping tool needs some serious help. I think there are two major improvements that could help it a lot.

1) Don't group people until there is a full group ready to go. As it currently stands you can have a group of Tank, Healer and DPS waiting on another DPS then there is a group with two DPS sitting around waiting for a group. If you just wait for a full group you won't have people waiting when there is enough people in queue for a dungeon to start.

2) Allow people to pick more than one dungeon to queue for. There are a lot of times I just want to run a dungeon V5+ and I don't really care which one. If we could queue for more than one at once then we wouldn't all be sitting around waiting as long.

Item #1 is not a good option as people tend to leave queue's if they are not joined with anyone.

Item #2 will cause confusion as this game does not port or suggest what dungeon someone is grouped for. Also going back to #1 if you don't group until the group is full, it doesn't allow people to grab other friends or Guild mates.
You want the social aspect of this game to stay in tact.

*What about the current tool stay the same with one exception. Class choices are made available based on the level of the skills by the system. Certain armor or spells, attacks should be at a minimum skill level in order to choose the role.

All this does is show who can play a role, the player would still determine what roles to queue as but the system would block or open up roles that make sense.


This game doesn't give good experience for dungeon running so IF they change this then item #2 is a go for me.

dsalter

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

I think everyone agrees that the grouping tool needs some serious help. I think there are two major improvements that could help it a lot.

1) Don't group people until there is a full group ready to go. As it currently stands you can have a group of Tank, Healer and DPS waiting on another DPS then there is a group with two DPS sitting around waiting for a group. If you just wait for a full group you won't have people waiting when there is enough people in queue for a dungeon to start.

2) Allow people to pick more than one dungeon to queue for. There are a lot of times I just want to run a dungeon V5+ and I don't really care which one. If we could queue for more than one at once then we wouldn't all be sitting around waiting as long.

Item #1 is not a good option as people tend to leave queue's if they are not joined with anyone.

Item #2 will cause confusion as this game does not port or suggest what dungeon someone is grouped for. Also going back to #1 if you don't group until the group is full, it doesn't allow people to grab other friends or Guild mates.
You want the social aspect of this game to stay in tact.

*What about the current tool stay the same with one exception. Class choices are made available based on the level of the skills by the system. Certain armor or spells, attacks should be at a minimum skill level in order to choose the role.

All this does is show who can play a role, the player would still determine what roles to queue as but the system would block or open up roles that make sense.


This game doesn't give good experience for dungeon running so IF they change this then item #2 is a go for me.

you sound like you dont understand, option one means your still queued just nobodies stuck in a party thats missing people till it's got all roles filled otherwise you'll irratate people or worse, they'll think by leaving they can get a group faster.

option 2 means that you get what you pick and if your unsure you can decide as a party. this also doesnt stop you inviting new groupies as when you invite someone to party the queue drops for you to re-inlist

Nestor

dsalter wrote: »

you sound like you dont understand, option one means your still queued just nobodies stuck in a party thats missing people till it's got all roles filled otherwise you'll irratate people or worse, they'll think by leaving they can get a group faster.

I have never used the Grouping Tool before to que up. Does it require you to state your role in the Group, then you are matched up that way? Or, does the role declaration just help someone else decide what group to join? For example, a group could be 4 Tanks rather than the classic mix.

NewBlacksmurf

dsalter wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

I think everyone agrees that the grouping tool needs some serious help. I think there are two major improvements that could help it a lot.

1) Don't group people until there is a full group ready to go. As it currently stands you can have a group of Tank, Healer and DPS waiting on another DPS then there is a group with two DPS sitting around waiting for a group. If you just wait for a full group you won't have people waiting when there is enough people in queue for a dungeon to start.

2) Allow people to pick more than one dungeon to queue for. There are a lot of times I just want to run a dungeon V5+ and I don't really care which one. If we could queue for more than one at once then we wouldn't all be sitting around waiting as long.

Item #1 is not a good option as people tend to leave queue's if they are not joined with anyone.

Item #2 will cause confusion as this game does not port or suggest what dungeon someone is grouped for. Also going back to #1 if you don't group until the group is full, it doesn't allow people to grab other friends or Guild mates.
You want the social aspect of this game to stay in tact.

*What about the current tool stay the same with one exception. Class choices are made available based on the level of the skills by the system. Certain armor or spells, attacks should be at a minimum skill level in order to choose the role.

All this does is show who can play a role, the player would still determine what roles to queue as but the system would block or open up roles that make sense.


This game doesn't give good experience for dungeon running so IF they change this then item #2 is a go for me.

you sound like you dont understand, option one means your still queued just nobodies stuck in a party thats missing people till it's got all roles filled otherwise you'll irratate people or worse, they'll think by leaving they can get a group faster.

option 2 means that you get what you pick and if your unsure you can decide as a party. this also doesnt stop you inviting new groupies as when you invite someone to party the queue drops for you to re-inlist

I do understand option #1 very well.
Its exactly how the World of Warcraft grouping tool works today which doesn't work well for this type of a game that isn't a lot like WoW.

*That tool creates negative experiences.
If you wait until a group is full to show party members then people will be in a solo only quest or maybe walk away from their keyboard. Others don't know whats going on and leave.

The system works well but it can be refined.

1) Don't group people until there is a full group ready to go. As it currently stands you can have a group of Tank, Healer and DPS waiting on another DPS then there is a group with two DPS sitting around waiting for a group. If you just wait for a full group you won't have people waiting when there is enough people in queue for a dungeon to start.

Not NEVER has anyone said hey we are only missing one more DPS and there are other DPS in the queue that aren't being added.

Realistically there are a lot of DPS in a group and the DPS are waiting on a tank or healer to queue. The resolution to all of this is to play one weapon as DPS, tank or healer and then the other weapon swap as the opposite.

If you don't want to be viable as two classes while leveling then just expect a long wait in the queue's. Also encourage others to be viable as two roles or to expect long queue's

The problem with #1 is people will be people. The length of queues is not determined by how well the tool groups people but its determined by the rewards with doing dungeons and the choices of people to queue as roles needed.

Since everyone can do damage and faceroll until lvl 49 it only makes sense that more people play as DPS and Healer or Tank and DPS or Tank and healer but most of the time I sit in queues and read ppl whining about where are all the tanks. (I'm a healer and DPS who use to be a Tank/Healer Templar)

I suggest, hey respect and balance skills into two roles and no one wants to do this.
It's US not the game

NewBlacksmurf

Nestor wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

you sound like you dont understand, option one means your still queued just nobodies stuck in a party thats missing people till it's got all roles filled otherwise you'll irratate people or worse, they'll think by leaving they can get a group faster.

I have never used the Grouping Tool before to que up. Does it require you to state your role in the Group, then you are matched up that way? Or, does the role declaration just help someone else decide what group to join? For example, a group could be 4 Tanks rather than the classic mix.

Before you enter a queue you must select the type of queue.
Dungeon, World, Raid, PvP (VR) and the dungeons or world areas appear based on character level. Then you choose the role or roles you wish to play (there is no limit even if you can't fulfill the role) and then you click start searching.

When people are located base don your searches it begins to add them into a group. sometimes its just one person and over time others are added while you continue doing whatever you were doing.

While the queue is going people can add or remove members of tis group (if they are the leader) and talk about the roles before going into a dungeon. The tool only creates a group, the people must travel or port to another player but whats great is any encounter can be done.

I often am joined or join others to assist them with quests while we wait for others so you have a chance to see a play style and ability Before you are grouped.

kitsinni

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

I think everyone agrees that the grouping tool needs some serious help. I think there are two major improvements that could help it a lot.

1) Don't group people until there is a full group ready to go. As it currently stands you can have a group of Tank, Healer and DPS waiting on another DPS then there is a group with two DPS sitting around waiting for a group. If you just wait for a full group you won't have people waiting when there is enough people in queue for a dungeon to start.

2) Allow people to pick more than one dungeon to queue for. There are a lot of times I just want to run a dungeon V5+ and I don't really care which one. If we could queue for more than one at once then we wouldn't all be sitting around waiting as long.

Item #1 is not a good option as people tend to leave queue's if they are not joined with anyone.

Item #2 will cause confusion as this game does not port or suggest what dungeon someone is grouped for. Also going back to #1 if you don't group until the group is full, it doesn't allow people to grab other friends or Guild mates.
You want the social aspect of this game to stay in tact.

*What about the current tool stay the same with one exception. Class choices are made available based on the level of the skills by the system. Certain armor or spells, attacks should be at a minimum skill level in order to choose the role.

All this does is show who can play a role, the player would still determine what roles to queue as but the system would block or open up roles that make sense.


This game doesn't give good experience for dungeon running so IF they change this then item #2 is a go for me.

you sound like you dont understand, option one means your still queued just nobodies stuck in a party thats missing people till it's got all roles filled otherwise you'll irratate people or worse, they'll think by leaving they can get a group faster.

option 2 means that you get what you pick and if your unsure you can decide as a party. this also doesnt stop you inviting new groupies as when you invite someone to party the queue drops for you to re-inlist

Not NEVER has anyone said hey we are only missing one more DPS and there are other DPS in the queue that aren't being added.

How exactly do you know this is true? You can't see who has queued for a dungeon. I have been in queue and put in with another DPS as soon as I joined. Say two minutes later a group of three joins the queue just looking for a fourth DPS it won't pull you out of your current group to throw you in with the previous one. I'm actually pretty sure it does do that because I have been sitting there for 30+ minutes with just me and another DPS in a queue, they say screw it and leave and I requeue for the same dungeon and get in a full group instantly.

The current situation has you sitting in dungeon queues sometimes for hours without ever getting in a group. I'm not talking about the lowbie ones it is rare to find I'm talking things like vet Wayrest Sewers one of the most common Vet dungeons to be run. Last night I was in a queue for over an hour waiting for a group. If we are on a megaserver and there are not four people that want to queue for the most run vet dungeon in an hour they might as well shut the game down now.

You seem to talk about how terrible WoW's grouping tool is yet it is probably the most effective grouping tool put in to place by an MMO yet. It is widely used and works very well. This game doesn't have to teleport you to the place because everyone can do it on their own. Maybe it would just be easier for the game to do it honeslty. All they would have to do is say "Wayrest Sewers Group" when the group is formed and everyone would know.

DeLindsay

kitsinni wrote: »

1) Don't group people until there is a full group ready to go. As it currently stands you can have a group of Tank, Healer and DPS waiting on another DPS then there is a group with two DPS sitting around waiting for a group. If you just wait for a full group you won't have people waiting when there is enough people in queue for a dungeon to start.

2) Allow people to pick more than one dungeon to queue for. There are a lot of times I just want to run a dungeon V5+ and I don't really care which one. If we could queue for more than one at once then we wouldn't all be sitting around waiting as long.

#1 - Great idea, poor example. The better way to say it is when a player hits que for X Dungeon it does not group them until the system finds all 4 matches and then boom, group ready.

#2 - Perfect and yes this is exactly what it should do. There is no confusion whatsoever IF the Dungeon system also teleports all members to the Dungeon it picked out of however many were chosen. This would also work with option #1.

For #2:

Tank ques for Dungeons B/D
Healer ques for Dungeons A/B/C/D/E
1st DPS ques for Dungeons B/C/E
2nd DPS ques for Dungeon B

When the system fills this que, they go into the Dungeon that the 2nd DPS picked as it would be the only common factor. To further it they could add a 'random' from a list and then you can all guess what would happen.

Anastasia

Nestor wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

you sound like you dont understand, option one means your still queued just nobodies stuck in a party thats missing people till it's got all roles filled otherwise you'll irratate people or worse, they'll think by leaving they can get a group faster.

I have never used the Grouping Tool before to que up. Does it require you to state your role in the Group, then you are matched up that way? Or, does the role declaration just help someone else decide what group to join? For example, a group could be 4 Tanks rather than the classic mix.

---

>>>"Does it require you to state your role in the Group, then you are matched up that way?"<<<

LoL naw, unlike some other models, this one DECIDES FOR YOU what your class is being put into the group as.

Shaun98ca2

Yea this games grouping tool needs a LOT of work. Can only que for 1 dungeon what kinda crap is that? Then they go and make the dumbest decision towards "helping" people group by gawd I don't even understand but .......

If their is a higher level person in your group the dungeon is scaled up to fit that persons level......what about the rest of the group members??????

Personally I think the higher level should be scaled DOWN to the dungeon level but make the drops personalized to HIS level so he can get quality gear drops out of the run. WOW smart solution and im not a developer.

Next I hear Veteran Rank Dungeons are TOO hard for pugs.......why not an intermediate step for pugs to do "VR dungeons" then add a "hard mode" for BETTER groups.

People DONT run dungeons because there is too much of a barrier to do so. LFG tool out loud sucks, then running with a pug equals fail. So now that means the dungeons WONT be run. As for 1-50 dungeons you have a small window of opportunity to run the dungeon and an even smaller player base to choose from. In all actuality Veteran Rank pugs SHOULD be leveled down to re running the 1-50 dungeons at appropriate level for blue quality gear and occasional purples for their Veteran Rank. The "hard mode" dungeons would be saved for well thought out groups as they already are.

SEE huge game problems solved.

EDITED FOR EXTRA....


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