Defence bonus AP rewards

Ardeni

As, I'm sure, most of you are aware, the game rewards players who defend their keeps, resources, outposts or scrolls with bonus points that seem to double the points gained during the fight. The mechanism behind the alliance points seems to be the following: When you kill players at a place which your alliance owns, each of them is worth around 1k points if they haven't died recently. This 1k is divided between every group/player who contributes to killing the target and is also stored to the defense bonus (which is called a defense tick in my guild). Once the fight is over, the defense bonus will be handed over to every player who is near the resource which was being defended.

Now, this may sound reasonable. However, when the tick is delayed for one reason or another, there might be a situation when only one player stays on the resource either knowing about the tick or not. He might receive tens or even hundreds of thousands of points even if he never participated in the fight itself if everybody else is gone. If you know about this, you can easily farm a lot of points quickly given that other people don't know or don't care about the mechanics.

What I would like to see is that the defense ticks would be awarded to you according to your and your groups accomplishments instead of what has been done overall. This way a player who just happens to come to the keep at the right time without doing anything wouldn't get free points. Also, I'd give the ticks to the defending players regardless of their location. It makes playing annoying when your buddies are waiting and waiting for the tick to appear while you'd actually want to go and do something reasonable. Besides, I don't think that changing the system to fairly award the rewards to every participant would actually harm anybody apart from the people who just idle in keeps hoping to get some free AP.

maanemann

Is the info in the first paragrah common knowledge? New to me and doesnt seem like to many other know either when to you look at common Cyrodiil playstyle.

Is this thread for US or EU server?

Can not say it is to much defending in EU Cyrodiil exactly. In fact I would like to see some mechanisms that would make the attackers (guilds) more attached to what they have conquered in order to wanting to defend it.

Now it is more attack one node and move on the next and to next etc.
While a group from the other faction attack the left behind ones and move on.
Wonder if that is one of the downsides to RvR games as opposed to GvG....?

CoUsT

What do you think people are doing to get 500k AP every day? Defending of course. You also get attack bonus, but as it share bonus for every player who is on keep teritory... you can assume that attack bonus isn't very high.

Imo this is good system, who want fun - have fun, who want points - have points.

bugulu

I agree with you, OP.

Defense ticks should be awarded to those participating in defending a keep and you should be awarded it despite you leaving the keeps area if it has been successfully defended.

At the moment, you have tons of people staying in the keep waiting for the "famous" defense tick before they move out. And you also have people porting from keep to keep just to get the defense tick despite not participating in the defense.

bitaken

bugulu wrote: »

I agree with you, OP.

Defense ticks should be awarded to those participating in defending a keep and you should be awarded it despite you leaving the keeps area if it has been successfully defended.

At the moment, you have tons of people staying in the keep waiting for the "famous" defense tick before they move out. And you also have people porting from keep to keep just to get the defense tick despite not participating in the defense.

This is precisely the problem. I have seen people just camp up in a keep and call others for help - then go AFK while dead while the keep get defended - and the person dead on the ground gets as much as the three healers and 4 DPS that came in and defended the keep.

Jaxom

bitaken wrote: »

bugulu wrote: »

I agree with you, OP.

Defense ticks should be awarded to those participating in defending a keep and you should be awarded it despite you leaving the keeps area if it has been successfully defended.

At the moment, you have tons of people staying in the keep waiting for the "famous" defense tick before they move out. And you also have people porting from keep to keep just to get the defense tick despite not participating in the defense.

This is precisely the problem. I have seen people just camp up in a keep and call others for help - then go AFK while dead while the keep get defended - and the person dead on the ground gets as much as the three healers and 4 DPS that came in and defended the keep.

This is a double edged sword. I agree that it sucks when people go AFK just for the defensive tick, but I would hate it if I were to die just before a flag flip and lose out on my defensive points. If they make it based on participation, not just being in the general area, that would certainly deter people from AFK-ing.

Marius87

This is wrong. You get the alliance points no matter where you are after about 2 or 3 min of cease fire. you even get them if you go offline and log back in after 3 4 hours, you will just see something like 1000 alliance points 10k vr points all of a sudden-Thats not random guys its your defence |attack bonus.

So dont worrk if you make kills while defending a keep you get the bonus even if you leave after or even before its done czu you still contributed. The most i got was 100kvet points and 10k alliance .

madangrypally

Marius87 wrote: »

This is wrong. You get the alliance points no matter where you are after about 2 or 3 min of cease fire. you even get them if you go offline and log back in after 3 4 hours, you will just see something like 1000 alliance points 10k vr points all of a sudden-Thats not random guys its your defence |attack bonus.

So dont worrk if you make kills while defending a keep you get the bonus even if you leave after or even before its done czu you still contributed. The most i got was 100kvet points and 10k alliance .

That is not correct. It works like the OP stated.

The max AP I earned for a defensive tick has been around 35k. The reason I earned so much was because there was no one else left to split the tick.

Proximity to resource/Keep effects if you get the defensive tic or not. The amount of players still in range will be what determines the value.

I thought this was pretty common knowledge. I have left multiple feedback reports to ZoS about the issue.

Halrloprillalar

It encourages leechers and campers, and should get looked at

Marius87

i got 10k when we were around 15 after a 1.5hour defence/ and i was at a farm when i got the bonus from defending the keep/

bugulu

Marius87 wrote: »

This is wrong. You get the alliance points no matter where you are after about 2 or 3 min of cease fire. you even get them if you go offline and log back in after 3 4 hours, you will just see something like 1000 alliance points 10k vr points all of a sudden-Thats not random guys its your defence |attack bonus.

So dont worrk if you make kills while defending a keep you get the bonus even if you leave after or even before its done czu you still contributed. The most i got was 100kvet points and 10k alliance .

Not the case for me.
I have had plenty of times when people have shouted out, oooh def tick 7k! and I was on a resource on that very same keep missing it out.

Halrloprillalar

bugulu wrote: »

Marius87 wrote: »

This is wrong. You get the alliance points no matter where you are after about 2 or 3 min of cease fire. you even get them if you go offline and log back in after 3 4 hours, you will just see something like 1000 alliance points 10k vr points all of a sudden-Thats not random guys its your defence |attack bonus.

So dont worrk if you make kills while defending a keep you get the bonus even if you leave after or even before its done czu you still contributed. The most i got was 100kvet points and 10k alliance .

Not the case for me.
I have had plenty of times when people have shouted out, oooh def tick 7k! and I was on a resource on that very same keep missing it out.

the defense ticks for keep require you to be near it (pretty much withing guard patrol radius)

bugulu

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

bugulu wrote: »

Marius87 wrote: »

This is wrong. You get the alliance points no matter where you are after about 2 or 3 min of cease fire. you even get them if you go offline and log back in after 3 4 hours, you will just see something like 1000 alliance points 10k vr points all of a sudden-Thats not random guys its your defence |attack bonus.

So dont worrk if you make kills while defending a keep you get the bonus even if you leave after or even before its done czu you still contributed. The most i got was 100kvet points and 10k alliance .

Not the case for me.
I have had plenty of times when people have shouted out, oooh def tick 7k! and I was on a resource on that very same keep missing it out.

the defense ticks for keep require you to be near it (pretty much withing guard patrol radius)

Yeah, I know, I was replying to the guy claiming that defense ticks were awarded no matter your position.

Ardeni

maanemann wrote: »

Is the info in the first paragrah common knowledge? New to me and doesnt seem like to many other know either when to you look at common Cyrodiil playstyle.

Is this thread for US or EU server?

Can not say it is to much defending in EU Cyrodiil exactly. In fact I would like to see some mechanisms that would make the attackers (guilds) more attached to what they have conquered in order to wanting to defend it.

Now it is more attack one node and move on the next and to next etc.
While a group from the other faction attack the left behind ones and move on.
Wonder if that is one of the downsides to RvR games as opposed to GvG....?

I think that most people who have played pvp for a while with the FTC add-on know about this. However, I think there are lots of people who are unaware of it (which leads into even higher gain for the people who abuse the system). Some even go far enough to shout others to advance while they stay inside themselves.

I am playing in EU but I am sure the same system is in place in the US servers as well. As a part of a small organized guild, I can say that at least we are also defending the keeps that we capture. There is little AP to be gained in offense, so it is of not much use unless you want to get the emperor keeps or scrolls.

@CoUsT The problem I see with this is the fact that when you want to have both the AP and the fun, you are unable to do so. And in my opinion it is a bit stupid to play the game for AP anyways and this system pretty much promotes useless players to become emperors, as often you can get a lot more points from afking in keeps instead of actually playing.

CoUsT

Ardeni wrote: »

@CoUsT The problem I see with this is the fact that when you want to have both the AP and the fun, you are unable to do so. And in my opinion it is a bit stupid to play the game for AP anyways and this system pretty much promotes useless players to become emperors, as often you can get a lot more points from afking in keeps instead of actually playing.

And that's not correct.

You can have both - you can clear enemies (usually random zergs) in your organised group using formation "train". You kill enemies, you have a lot of fun, and when it's time to get defense bonus, you just go back, get it and go kill enemies agian.

There is exactly special mechanic under "when you get bonus points", if you know it, you can get both - fun and points.

timidobserver

I like this system. It adds some kind of incentive for pure defenders. If you just zerg train from keep to keep without repairing walls, you may miss out on your tick. If you hang out and repair the keep and kill any remaining enemy, you will be rewarded for it.

I can live with the current system

maanemann

Ardeni wrote: »

I think that most people who have played pvp for a while with the FTC add-on know about this. However, I think there are lots of people who are unaware of it (which leads into even higher gain for the people who abuse the system). Some even go far enough to shout others to advance while they stay inside themselves.

I am playing in EU but I am sure the same system is in place in the US servers as well. As a part of a small organized guild, I can say that at least we are also defending the keeps that we capture. There is little AP to be gained in offense, so it is of not much use unless you want to get the emperor keeps or scrolls.

Thanks for the friendly response and explaining further!
I am learning something every day. :-)

I guess it is because I have only been in pickup groups in Cyrodiil. The typical pattern is what I explained (find something undefended, capture, move, on, find something undefended, attack move on and so on....). If you stand to defend something it is very likely that you wont get "visitors" and thereby people get bored and move on.

This must be even bigger issue for smaller PvP guilds. Prelaunch developers said that smaller guilds would typically attack the nodes around the Keeps. This sounds very cool in theory, but let say you are in a small PvP guild and just attacked a mine or lumber mill. It is very likely that you will have to wait a looong time before the enemy shows up.

I guess this is another GvG game arguement, but certainly if the guild could make a clearer stamp/customization and get guild rewards for what they just conquered the guild would feel they owned it more and work on crafting guild banners, fortifications and planning defence instead of just moving on. I think RvR games lack in this department.

Renuo

The worst part is if you defend an important keep for a long time, then have the final push out to where the enemy's base camp is (say for example one of the resource nodes), and well you have a choice at some point if the fight out there is going for too long:
1. Go back and get your AP bonus
2. Wipe the enemies + remove forward camps and take back the resource node

Some of us want the reward so the problem is you go back and give them another crack at the keep. It's kind of dumb you lose rewards for actually "finishing the job" and removing the enemies from the area surrounding the keep (you have to be in range of the patrol guards to get the bonus points).

CoUsT

You can use siege weapons to attack enemies and help your alliance while staying on keep territory. You can also push them back, get resource attack bonus and back to keep. If enemies still fight around keep, defense bonus won't tick.

Lava_Croft

There is usually enough time to take at least one resource before the defense bonus ticks.

whsprwind

Does anyone get negative ticks too?

Sometimes after defending a minor attack i get awarded something like -3000 points. My points didn't actually go down though but i still thought i should get some points

Is that a bug?

CoUsT

No, that's because you bought something and you still have negative difference even after tick. It's just Addon error, check your AP before tick and after, everything should be okay.

Edit: Or download this addon created by me:
http://esoui.com/downloads/info627-AlliancePointsLogger.html#info

It's never wrong.