End Game Content?? ?? ??

Acercyst

Let me start out by saying I am a new player, i bought the game maybe a month ago, and so far I have really enjoyed it. I got maybe 2 or 3 lvls a day. Did not rush anything, listened to all the quest and just thoroughly enjoyed the content, i could not be more happier with the leveling system. As i was leveling i was paying attn to how the economy works, how the crafting works, and what i would need to do after level 50. Granted i did not spoil anything until i was 50, i looked up an amazing build for my sorc, I'm more then addicted to the play style of him. I like the fact that the 5 skills gives you a feel as if your playing an old magic the gathering card game, where as you might have all the best cards in your deck, but you can only work with 5 at a time, and draw for a different 5.

However! I hit 50 earlier today, defeated Molag bal, was an awesome ass quest line, just as the rest of em were. After that I started to finalize my research on the game, from what I've read from numerous sites including the eso forums is in order to get vet ranks i have to start over and quest from each faction's point of view. The other two methods are hours of grinding, or pvp in cryodil ( from what I've read takes 3x longer then the other to methods and is not worth it until r6).

That honestly is one of the biggest middle fingers I've seen in an mmo to the gamer population. I have always taken a lot of pride in the faction i chose, I'm sure as every other gamer. It gives the essence of competition, to hate the other player because of his faction, or to find a fun rival in the other faction you're constantly working against. But to go back to his lands and do all of his quest, and go through all his content......why are we in factions if we can do that?!? Well alright i can knuckle down and do that, I can get over it, I'm thinking maybe 2 months or so and i could be r12........But what is the point?

From every mmo i have been through, Lineage2, aion, wow, rift, swtor there has always been raids....this game appears to not have any, not including the very few vet dungeons. In each of those mmo's they all had many different aspects to pvp....this game seems to have 1, cryodill.

I understand this game is not any of those, there are a lot of differences, and i like that, its the reason why i bought it. but the general idea behind an mmo is to either be a bad ass able to kill others with ease, after working your ass off of course in order to get the end game top of the line gear. Or to have some big bad boss who drops epic loot that you so dearly want, and so does everyone else....

So if i'm r12, with a full set of r12 legendary gear....what can i do with it? there are no raids, and once your at that point I'm sure you will out gear your dungeon, not entirely, but you all know what i mean, it wont be as much of a challenge anymore. If the only thing i'm doing is cryodill ya that might be fun for a week with the endgame gear.......but that appears to be it.

If I'm missing something please point it out to me, i do not mean to bash the game, I've enjoyed it so much until this point. In all honestly though I'm very disappointed if this is it

Syntse

Acercyst wrote: »

If I'm missing something please point it out to me, i do not mean to bash the game, I've enjoyed it so much until this point. In all honestly though I'm very disappointed if this is it

Time is the answer. Game is pretty new and they are adding and changing content still as time goes by. They are overhauling the vets and I'm sure also thinking of content that will be suitable for endgame.

One thing is that this is not just another MMO it is also Elder Scrolls game. Many people me included likes to go through the other factions quest lines so see how things went there, how's the story and I don't want to create char to every faction to do that.

Changes are coming which seem like you will have alternative ways of leveling the veteran not only grinding through other factions quest lines.

Vannor

It was always intended that crafted gear matched anything that dropped and the end game is Cyrodiil. That may change but that's pretty much the way the game has been developed.

ItsMeToo

It's not all. There's more to come. There is no end-game in this MMORPG. They will keep adding content and making improvements. See the Road Ahead message and watch the QuakeCon panel discussion on twitchtv this Friday for more information on what's to come.

EDIT:

PANEL: THE FUTURE OF ESO Panel

The ESO devs will talk about where the game is headed and answer your questions on the main stage. Each developer (listed below) will speak about a specific aspect of ESO and what’s in store, followed by a live Q&A. Also, the first 3,000 attendees will receive a free copy of The Elder Scrolls Online! Submit your questions to us on the official ESO forums and Twitter ahead of time, and you may see us answer it live at QuakeCon! (Please use the #ESO and #QuakeCon hashtags on Twitter.)

Can’t make it to QuakeCon? Don’t worry! You can watch the full panel and Q&A live on Twitch.tv/bethesda. The livestream and Q&A will also be available for viewing afterward on the ESO YouTube channel.

When? Friday, July 18th from 5:00PM to 7:00PM CDT

Where? QuakeCon Ventrilo Main Stage

Who? Game Director Matt Firor, Creative Director Paul Sage, Lead PvP Designer Brian Wheeler, Lead Gameplay Designer Nick Konkle, Lead Designer Rich Lambert, Art Director Jared Carr, and Lead Programmer Jesse McIntyre.

Loco_Mofo

Welcome to ESO.

Acercyst

So what your saying Syntse is this game just is not developed yet...? Personally i have always considered myself a hardcore gamer. I spend at least 5hours a day on the mmo i'm playing at that current time. Again correct me if i'm wrong, but from what your saying is there really is no point for me to rush up to r12, but to just relax and game "casually" since there's nothing once i hit r12. Honestly i dont like the sound of that, i'm not 1 to face roll through content. But i do like to build my char overtime to the point of where when i get to town other players look at my char in awe. But a topic i did not cover will not allow me to do that, since we can not inspect someone, and we cannot duel someone.....i just do not see the reason this game is an mmo. They have removed to many factors for this game to be considered an mmo. I can be patient and wait for them to release the game...after they released it to the public and i spent 60$ of my money on. But I probably wont renew my subscription until that point....

Catman14

Acercyst wrote,

" but the general idea behind an mmo is to either be a bad ass able to kill others with ease, after working your ass off of course in order to get the end game top of the line gear. Or to have some big bad boss who drops epic loot that you so dearly want, and so does everyone else...."

And here lies the real problem with this game and all the other WoW clones doing the rounds. All destined to rise and the fall on their fat wallets as players "complete" the content.

Your definition of the MMO is totally and fatally flawed. While an MMO can be those things it SHOULD also be a living breathing world where the actions of the players affect everything from politics and the economy to building and land changes. If it's not then we have to rely on developers adding new content constantly and with each added bit of content comes the inevitable introduction of tech problems, frustrated gamers who haven't yet advanced far enough to get that content and the inevitable chorus of complaints on the forums. If this other dimension was built into current MMO's the player base would provide a good portion of it's own entertainment.

Unfortunately ESO doesn't provide the added dimension so unless the developers constantly feed you new dynamic content (like Rift for example) you are stuck with this single player rpg that lets you play with friends.

Acercyst

Catman14 wrote: »

Acercyst wrote,

" but the general idea behind an mmo is to either be a bad ass able to kill others with ease, after working your ass off of course in order to get the end game top of the line gear. Or to have some big bad boss who drops epic loot that you so dearly want, and so does everyone else...."

And here lies the real problem with this game and all the other WoW clones doing the rounds. All destined to rise and the fall on their fat wallets as players "complete" the content.

Your definition of the MMO is totally and fatally flawed. While an MMO can be those things it SHOULD also be a living breathing world where the actions of the players affect everything from politics and the economy to building and land changes. If it's not then we have to rely on developers adding new content constantly and with each added bit of content comes the inevitable introduction of tech problems, frustrated gamers who haven't yet advanced far enough to get that content and the inevitable chorus of complaints on the forums. If this other dimension was built into current MMO's the player base would provide a good portion of it's own entertainment.

Unfortunately ESO doesn't provide the added dimension so unless the developers constantly feed you new dynamic content (like Rift for example) you are stuck with this single player rpg that lets you play with friends.

Catman14

I'm sorry, but you can not be more wrong in what you said. if you kept reading my original post, i clearly stated i understand this is not any of those mmo's and there are changes. As to your "wow clones" comment. Again can not be more wrong, I stated i've gone through several mmos, other then wow, for instance lineage2. Back when mmo's were young. lineage2 was the polar opposite of wow and rift, they released the game with all of its content and that was it. The end game was trying to hit the max level, if you ever did they'd be releasing the next expansion...after your 2years of hardwork.

I am not asking for more content, i am simply asking for content that should of been there. your reference to rift feeding its players content, look at rift now. Its 100% dead.

My definition of an mmo is the same definition as legos. Keep building up till your out of pieces then put them on display for others to see.

My last note to you, is if you read my post, i clearly stated i was not bashing the game, i am only concerned as to what to do next. So please before you attack my statements, learn what your talking about

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Syntse wrote: »

One thing is that this is not just another MMO it is also Elder Scrolls game..

It's as much an 'Elder Scrolls' game as World of Warcraft was a 'Warcraft' game: there are points of similarity and a common 'lore', beyond that there's in reality little in common between the MMO and its' franchise' in many respects.

Enodoc

Acercyst wrote: »

From every mmo i have been through, Lineage2, aion, wow, rift, swtor there has always been raids....this game appears to not have any, not including the very few vet dungeons. In each of those mmo's they all had many different aspects to pvp....this game seems to have 1, cryodill.

The "raids" at the moment are the Craglorn Trials, although they have said more and different PvE endgame is to come. They are also considering other PvP types, but they don't want any new PvP to detract from Cyrodiil's AvA content.

Syntse

Acercyst wrote: »

So what your saying Syntse is this game just is not developed yet...?

Yes and no. On release it had content up to veteran 10, shortly after they added content up to veteran 12 (Craglorn), they have been adding veteran dungeons. So yes I can say that it was developed and will it be done or complete at any point no, there will be new content and changes and fixes all the time. It's a living game.

There will be always people reaching level cap and getting bored to the current content and demanding more. Also there will be things that first though was a great idea but later on noticed that maybe it needs to be changed a bit to work better and serve current population.

I'm sure people would love to see complete developed MMO on release, though I doubt that release would never happen.

Catman14

My apologies Acercyst. I'm not attacking you merely pointing out that this game offers nothing new to the current genre. You play it until you've maxed out and then that's it. You can't show off your new found status in ESO because there's nothing to show off and nowhere to show it. Soon there may be nobody to show it off to. I personally would like a persistent world that I could never "finish" but I realise that I'm in a minority here and so I have to "suck it up". I don't have a problem with others getting the sort of game they want. You never know, one day I might get mine! :-)

I'm having the same discussion with myself. Do I stick it out, working my way through the veteran levels and hoping for new content, fixes, perhaps some new game changing mechanic. Or do I cut my losses and quit now before I invest any more time (and money)? After all there's a new solo RPG every 3 months or so and I still get a kick out of Skyrim every now and then and Iis this game any more satisfying? hmmm..... decisions, decisions.

Tabbycat

Expect a continuing revamp of the Veteran system with big changes coming in patch 4 (3 is the next up with Guild improvements).

I'd stick with the game and just work on crafting or hunting down other skyshards. Go ahead and quest through the current Veteran content, do dungeons, level an alt. Or if it really bothers you, unsub for a couple months and come back when they've revamped the Veteran content.

OP, you are late to the party. Everyone's already complained about this and ZOS has given us enough tidbits on what's coming up to fix it that almost everyone is pretty happy with the future plans. I say almost because you always have those people that can't be pleased no matter what.

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO

Acercyst wrote: »

However! I hit 50 earlier today, defeated Molag bal, was an awesome ass quest line, just as the rest of em were. After that I started to finalize my research on the game, from what I've read from numerous sites including the eso forums is in order to get vet ranks i have to start over and quest from each faction's point of view. The other two methods are hours of grinding, or pvp in cryodil ( from what I've read takes 3x longer then the other to methods and is not worth it until r6).

So? Now that you're 50 you just want easy advancement?

From every mmo i have been through, Lineage2, aion, wow, rift, swtor there has always been raids....this game appears to not have any, not including the very few vet dungeons. In each of those mmo's they all had many different aspects to pvp....this game seems to have 1, cryodill.

That's actually part of the problem. All of those games have big raids.. and other than WoW they're all sideshows, because there are too many "level to max then raid" MMOs out there.

As for different aspects to PVP, I'm not sure what you're saying but a lot of those "different aspects" are just arranged fights between teams of equal size with no strategic implications at all. ESO has at least some significance to PVP actions. Granted, it's not EVE, but it's better in terms of providing reasons to PVP that almost all other games.

I understand this game is not any of those, there are a lot of differences, and i like that, its the reason why i bought it. but the general idea behind an mmo is to either be a bad ass able to kill others with ease, after working your ass off of course in order to get the end game top of the line gear. Or to have some big bad boss who drops epic loot that you so dearly want, and so does everyone else....

This isn't the general idea behind an MMO at all. It's the idea behind certain, specific MMOs, and this is not one of those. It is not a formula all MMOs must follow (two words, again: EVE Online). In fact, too many MMOs have tried to follow that, and a lot of themn have become also-rans because of it.

You say you bought this game for something different.. but you're complaining that it's different. Don't worry about being a "badass" so much, or about "cool loot". Look into Tamriel more; there's a lot more to this world than being a 21st century gamer dressed up in funny clothes.

So if i'm r12, with a full set of r12 legendary gear....what can i do with it? there are no raids, and once your at that point I'm sure you will out gear your dungeon, not entirely, but you all know what i mean, it wont be as much of a challenge anymore. If the only thing i'm doing is cryodill ya that might be fun for a week with the endgame gear.......but that appears to be it.

There will be more content coming, and really Cyrodill is endless content. If it's only fun for a week, you aren't getting into winning for your alliance.

If I'm missing something please point it out to me, i do not mean to bash the game, I've enjoyed it so much until this point. In all honestly though I'm very disappointed if this is it

It's only 3 months old. It's actually good that you took this long to level up since you didn't content-locust, but there's going to be more to do.

No matter how much content is in a game, you can always look ahead to the end and say "but then what?" So don't.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO wrote: »

This isn't the general idea behind an MMO at all. It's the idea behind certain, specific MMOs, and this is not one of those.

Please explain the substantial difference between Craglorn Trials and, say, WOW's 10-man raids .. or Rift's raids .. or LOTRO's raids .. etc .. because I see the same phat lewt grinding in all of them, that's the only reason that content exists and Craglorn is one of them.

Falmer

This game is the 1-50 content in 3 different alliances. People need to stop focusing on "end game" so much. You don't see people complaining that there is nothing to do in chess after you "checkmate".

Play the other 2 alliances, with alternate characters, or the option exists to do all of the alliances with your same character through the veteran content if that is your wish.

I generally find by the time I have leveled 3 characters to level 50 in each alliance, I am ready to see the first alliance all over again with yet another class, personality, and playstyle.

This is not a long-term grinding MMO where players keep killing the same things over and over in the hopes of getting something to enhance their epeen.

This is a story based MMO designed around you steering your character through their story. Too many players have skipped the game to get to the epeen grinding and are shocked that it isn't there.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Falmer wrote: »

This game is the 1-50 content in 3 different alliances.

Sorry it isn't, the level cap is VR12 at the moment.

Neizir

Actuall, there are raids. You just don't start to get into them until around VR10 or 12.

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO wrote: »

This isn't the general idea behind an MMO at all. It's the idea behind certain, specific MMOs, and this is not one of those.

Please explain the substantial difference between Craglorn Trials and, say, WOW's 10-man raids .. or Rift's raids .. or LOTRO's raids .. etc .. because I see the same phat lewt grinding in all of them, that's the only reason that content exists and Craglorn is one of them.

I think it's pretty obvious that game content is going to involve loot drops. Are you suggesting that the presence of loot means there can't be a difference?

In any case, the concept of raiding for time is significant in difference from WoW raids, which were only about loot. I'm not a big fan of leaderboards, but they ARE a meaningful difference. The content is done for its own sake, rather than exclusively for the loot. There's also the "you have a limited number of rezez you can use" thing, in terms of mechanical differences.

reften

VR10 and having fun. There are a ton of options post level 50...

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO wrote: »

This isn't the general idea behind an MMO at all. It's the idea behind certain, specific MMOs, and this is not one of those.

Please explain the substantial difference between Craglorn Trials and, say, WOW's 10-man raids .. or Rift's raids .. or LOTRO's raids .. etc .. because I see the same phat lewt grinding in all of them, that's the only reason that content exists and Craglorn is one of them.

I think it's pretty obvious that game content is going to involve loot drops. Are you suggesting that the presence of loot means there can't be a difference?

In any case, the concept of raiding for time is significant in difference from WoW raids, which were only about loot. I'm not a big fan of leaderboards, but they ARE a meaningful difference. The content is done for its own sake, rather than exclusively for the loot. There's also the "you have a limited number of rezez you can use" thing, in terms of mechanical differences.

I'm asking why a Craglorn trial is different from a WOW 10-man raid, which is what you asserted.

Sorry, 'raiding for time' is an irrelevance, it merely adds a touch of 'spice' to a dungeon run, it isn't substantial in any way, shape or form, nor the rezz. issue.

Basically, the 12-man VR content ARE RAIDS whether you want to accept that parallel with WO and most other MMOs or not.

Have fun arguing the Earth's flat.

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO wrote: »

This isn't the general idea behind an MMO at all. It's the idea behind certain, specific MMOs, and this is not one of those.

Please explain the substantial difference between Craglorn Trials and, say, WOW's 10-man raids .. or Rift's raids .. or LOTRO's raids .. etc .. because I see the same phat lewt grinding in all of them, that's the only reason that content exists and Craglorn is one of them.

I think it's pretty obvious that game content is going to involve loot drops. Are you suggesting that the presence of loot means there can't be a difference?

In any case, the concept of raiding for time is significant in difference from WoW raids, which were only about loot. I'm not a big fan of leaderboards, but they ARE a meaningful difference. The content is done for its own sake, rather than exclusively for the loot. There's also the "you have a limited number of rezez you can use" thing, in terms of mechanical differences.

I'm asking why a Craglorn trial is different from a WOW 10-man raid, which is what you asserted.

And I told you.

Sorry, 'raiding for time' is an irrelevance, it merely adds a touch of 'spice' to a dungeon run, it isn't substantial in any way, shape or form, nor the rezz. issue.

So in other words, it's not substantial because... you say so? How convenient.

Basically, the 12-man VR content ARE RAIDS whether you want to accept that parallel with WO and most other MMOs or not.

Have fun arguing the Earth's flat.

Have fun nitpicking the semantics of "what is a raid?" and begging the question. If you're just going to expand what a "raid" is to mean "any multiple-group content" then yes, it's a raid by virtue of you expanding the definition to the point of uselessness. Do you think Incursions in EVE are raids too?

Anastasia

Syntse wrote: »

Acercyst wrote: »

So what your saying Syntse is this game just is not developed yet...?

Yes and no. On release it had content up to veteran 10, shortly after they added content up to veteran 12 (Craglorn), they have been adding veteran dungeons. So yes I can say that it was developed and will it be done or complete at any point no, there will be new content and changes and fixes all the time. It's a living game.

There will be always people reaching level cap and getting bored to the current content and demanding more. Also there will be things that first though was a great idea but later on noticed that maybe it needs to be changed a bit to work better and serve current population.

I'm sure people would love to see complete developed MMO on release, though I doubt that release would never happen.

---

"There will be always people reaching level cap and getting bored to the current content and demanding more." True...but let me edit in my own words to say, additionally:

**There will be now be many more people reaching level cap and getting bored to the current content and demanding soloable endgame content.**

eventide03b14a_ESO

Wow. Okay where to start... First of all OP have you even been to Craglorn? That zone was designed for end game content. There will be more of course but that is definitely one option. I personally don't see what the problem with doing quests in other factions is, even if the game does give a rather questionable reason for it. Honestly they really should have done a better job with the explanation and motivation for going to the other factions, but I digress. So basically PvP, veteran quests, or Craglorn. Being V1 doesn't mean the game has come to an end. PvP is fantastic in this game and I love that it's confined to Cyrodiil, which is really huge. If they ever get the FPS bug fixed it will be even better. It almost sounds like you just want them to hand you V12 and come out with a bunch of stock raid content. I suggest you go play WoW. There is plenty of stuff like that in that game. Someone told me that you can now get a level 90 character in WoW if you get the expansion. So...yeah...good luck.

stumpy999

At some point the bubble will burst and you can go no further

so either pvp with your uber dude or start again, there is no such thing as infinite progression

Deal with it

Syntse

Anastasia wrote: »

"There will be always people reaching level cap and getting bored to the current content and demanding more." True...but let me edit in my own words to say, additionally:

**There will be now be many more people reaching level cap and getting bored to the current content and demanding soloable endgame content.**

This is true and totally another issue. Current added content has been towards groups or 4 or more. Yes it is lacking content for purely solo people, maybe this will be addressed too later on. Generally by the time you have gone through 1-vet10 you might have made few friends along the way that you can then group with to vet dungeons and craglorn and future content.

Audigy

I think it is a real shame that especially younger folks only know MMOs such as WOW, RIFT or SWTOR.

They think that spending three days a week in a raid dungeon is what an MMO is all about...

To me, that whole raid or die philosophy has ruined the MMO business a lot. It made gaming unsocial and a boring grind.

Personally,

to have a nice quest line that keeps you busy for weeks, a good crafting system that allows you to build your own home, dynamic pvp events, trading and exploring - those are the things that made MMOs so special once.

While I had my fair share of raiding, even in a professional matter - I honestly cant understand why someone would waste three days a week without being paid for that type of content that is just every week the same.

No offence to the OP, but I just don't understand his reasoning.

claytonjhouserb14_ESO

Audigy wrote: »

I think it is a real shame that especially younger folks only know MMOs such as WOW, RIFT or SWTOR.

They think that spending three days a week in a raid dungeon is what an MMO is all about...

To me, that whole raid or die philosophy has ruined the MMO business a lot. It made gaming unsocial and a boring grind.

Personally,

to have a nice quest line that keeps you busy for weeks, a good crafting system that allows you to build your own home, dynamic pvp events, trading and exploring - those are the things that made MMOs so special once.

While I had my fair share of raiding, even in a professional matter - I honestly cant understand why someone would waste three days a week without being paid for that type of content that is just every week the same.

No offence to the OP, but I just don't understand his reasoning.

I have to say this is just an opinion and not a fact for raiding is usually a highly social experience I do not know what raid you have went through that is unsocial for players have to work as a team to reach a common goal.

And no offense but I get tired of the younger folk comments I have been playing games since zelda orcarina of time and have had plenty of games since and most people who play this game are of ample age to know what older mmo's are. I personally just use WoW as a reference for the sheer fact of its undenyable success in the mmo market.

Jermu73

I just finished cadwell's gold at vet level 8 and not finish all the quest, world bosses, dungeons etc. I'm still thinking i have lot to do. Now i'm trying to max my clothing/woodworking skill line's and never been in Craglorn or Cyrodiil yet. There are lot to do everywhere