New 'Guild Traders' a Sneak Peek !

Phantax

So, just been wandering around the PTS and thought I'd find some of the new 'Guild Traders'. Well I did and here they are....

Fairly easy to spot on the map (new icons for them)-



Don't know how many variations there will be but first two I found looked slightly different-



Interacting with them is basically the same as normal traders. Couldn't get any more details as nobody owned this trader. (guess its not worth the hassle on the PTS)-


Well, there are a few sneak peeks for you guys

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Simply putting lipstick on the pig that the 'guild economy' is.

ZOS are desperately looking for way to try rescue this failed idea and not have to admit they were wrong and implement a proper MMO economy based on an AH.

Phantax

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Simply putting lipstick on the pig that the 'guild economy' is.

ZOS are desperately looking for way to try rescue this failed idea and not have to admit they were wrong and implement a proper MMO economy based on an AH.

Oh hell yeah I agree, the whole segregated Guild Bank / Guild Store thing is a joke (albeit not a funny one) I'm one of the biggest posters regarding ESO's economy and AH, functions things need to change and this isn't how.

I only made this post so those peeps not using the PTS could have a little glimpse.

Like your analogy about 'lipstick on a pig'...lol

DeLindsay

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Simply putting lipstick on the pig that the 'guild economy' is.

ZOS are desperately looking for way to try rescue this failed idea and not have to admit they were wrong and implement a proper MMO economy based on an AH.

Not a failed idea, ZoS isn't wrong for choosing NOT to put in an AH, there are other reasons that at this time are out of their control. OFC that doesn't stop people from chastising ZoS for things they know nothing of.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

DeLindsay wrote: »

there are other reasons that at this time are out of their control. OFC that doesn't stop people from chastising ZoS for things they know nothing of.

Care to educate the rest of us with your 'inside' knowledge?

Phantax

DeLindsay wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Simply putting lipstick on the pig that the 'guild economy' is.

ZOS are desperately looking for way to try rescue this failed idea and not have to admit they were wrong and implement a proper MMO economy based on an AH.

Not a failed idea, ZoS isn't wrong for choosing NOT to put in an AH, there are other reasons that at this time are out of their control. OFC that doesn't stop people from chastising ZoS for things they know nothing of.

Yep, guess my 20+ years of playing MMOs means I know nothing of how a dynamic in-game economy would work !
You only have to read through these forums to see how many people think the current iteration of trading has already failed !

DeLindsay

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

there are other reasons that at this time are out of their control. OFC that doesn't stop people from chastising ZoS for things they know nothing of.

Care to educate the rest of us with your 'inside' knowledge?

Paul Sage has said time and time again that due to the Megaserver, the technology just isn't present at this time to allow a global AH without itself causing serious issues. He's said this in both VLogs and ALogs. That's why they are working to improve the Guild Store system. He also said in one of his ALogs with an internet gaming site about 2 months ago that there are LOTS of Guild improvements that he wants to see happen and wanted to see in the game from launch but priorities were elsewhere at that time.

Phantax wrote: »

Yep, guess my 20+ years of playing MMOs means I know nothing of how a dynamic in-game economy would work !
You only have to read through these forums to see how many people think the current iteration of trading has already failed !

That's awesome Phantax I wasn't aware that you've been a computer programmer for 20+ years working specifically in MMO design. Well, with you here giving suggestions ZoS should have everything cleared up by the end of this week right?

Phantax

And back on topic - the same area as pic 3 but as we have it now. There are actually a few trader stalls in this area on the PTS (not just the one I showed)


I may not like the guild store idea in mechanics, but I do like anything that makes the cities seem more alive

Phantax

DeLindsay wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

there are other reasons that at this time are out of their control. OFC that doesn't stop people from chastising ZoS for things they know nothing of.

Care to educate the rest of us with your 'inside' knowledge?

Paul Sage has said time and time again that due to the Megaserver, the technology just isn't present at this time to allow a global AH without itself causing serious issues. He's said this in both VLogs and ALogs. That's why they are working to improve the Guild Store system. He also said in one of his ALogs with an internet gaming site about 2 months ago that there are LOTS of Guild improvements that he wants to see happen and wanted to see in the game from launch but priorities were elsewhere at that time.

Rubbish ! Mr Sage needs to go play EVE Online then. It has a global AH/Market, it is a megaserver game (single not even a NA/EU split) It has almost no isses, certainly none I've ever experienced and I'm a trader by choice in EVE. Also EVE has one of the most balanced, dynamic in-game economies of any MMO in existence !

DeLindsay

Phantax wrote: »

Rubbish ! Mr Sage needs to go play EVE Online then. It has a global AH/Market, it is a megaserver game (single not even a NA/EU split) and EVE has one of the most balanced, dynamic in-game economies of any MMO in existence !

I've played Eve on and off since 2006 and you aren't even close to correct in your assertion of what Eve's market is. First, the Market is divided up into multiple Regions, each one is it's own "Auction House" for lack of a better description. It would be like every zone in ESO having it's own AH, which isn't remotely a "global AH". This doesn't even account for the econ from Towers in sov space. To make it worse, if you purchase something that isn't right there in that station you have to go travel to get it, sometimes as much as 8-11 jumps. Nobody would be ok with that in ESO.

Second, Eve is a sandbox, ESO is not. Sandbox games are perpetuated by the players, standard MMO's exist even without players. CCP used to seed the Markets with a large variety of items, Shuttles to name one, which kept the prices of Minerals at a roughly set amount, but that was years ago. The player driven Market has been so stable for so many years because of it being a Sandbox type game that they removed most game generated market seeds. Hell even Burn Jita's don't negatively effect Eve's economy that much.

wrlifeboil

I think the clunky guild store system buffers the game economy from the negative effects of frictionless trading. The simple answer is if the devs put in a global AH, they will have to micromanage the game economy even more through drop rates and quest rewards. There is no guarantee that the devs can do it successfully even if they had the ability and the resources. The D3 devs lost control of the economy very early on and it turned the game into a disaster. All this global AH talk makes me wonder if the people who keep droning on about one just don't understand the possible effects or if they want to deliberately wreck what's left of the game.

Anyway, eso is an Elder Scrolls game, not an empire builder or trade mogul game.

SantieClaws

This is probably the most realistic system we can have, aside from letting players open up their own shops.

A halfway option may be to have additional menu options on some existing traders in some towns and have them sell on things that players have left with them - not sold to them for a fixed price but have have the player set their own price and receive payment only when another player has bought that item.

I'm sort of looking forward to being able to do some ingredient shopping. Go out in the morning and see what I can cook in the afternoon.

DeLindsay

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

This is probably the most realistic system we can have, aside from letting players open up their own shops.

A halfway option may be to have additional menu options on some existing traders in some towns and have them sell on things that players have left with them - not sold to them for a fixed price but have have the player set their own price and receive payment only when another player has bought that item.

I'm sort of looking forward to being able to do some ingredient shopping. Go out in the morning and see what I can cook in the afternoon.

OMG Yes, I want to open my own shop!!

Caduryn

Phantax wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

there are other reasons that at this time are out of their control. OFC that doesn't stop people from chastising ZoS for things they know nothing of.

Care to educate the rest of us with your 'inside' knowledge?

Paul Sage has said time and time again that due to the Megaserver, the technology just isn't present at this time to allow a global AH without itself causing serious issues. He's said this in both VLogs and ALogs. That's why they are working to improve the Guild Store system. He also said in one of his ALogs with an internet gaming site about 2 months ago that there are LOTS of Guild improvements that he wants to see happen and wanted to see in the game from launch but priorities were elsewhere at that time.

Rubbish ! Mr Sage needs to go play EVE Online then. It has a global AH/Market, it is a megaserver game (single not even a NA/EU split) It has almost no isses, certainly none I've ever experienced and I'm a trader by choice in EVE. Also EVE has one of the most balanced, dynamic in-game economies of any MMO in existence !

EvE and global AH?!? Rofl!!!

That shows "your" 20 Years Experience"....

mutharex

Phantax wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Simply putting lipstick on the pig that the 'guild economy' is.

ZOS are desperately looking for way to try rescue this failed idea and not have to admit they were wrong and implement a proper MMO economy based on an AH.

Not a failed idea, ZoS isn't wrong for choosing NOT to put in an AH, there are other reasons that at this time are out of their control. OFC that doesn't stop people from chastising ZoS for things they know nothing of.

Yep, guess my 20+ years of playing MMOs means I know nothing of how a dynamic in-game economy would work !
You only have to read through these forums to see how many people think the current iteration of trading has already failed !

LOL in you '20 years playing MMOs' how many global AHs have you seen outside of WoW and wowclones?

mutharex

Phantax wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

there are other reasons that at this time are out of their control. OFC that doesn't stop people from chastising ZoS for things they know nothing of.

Care to educate the rest of us with your 'inside' knowledge?

Paul Sage has said time and time again that due to the Megaserver, the technology just isn't present at this time to allow a global AH without itself causing serious issues. He's said this in both VLogs and ALogs. That's why they are working to improve the Guild Store system. He also said in one of his ALogs with an internet gaming site about 2 months ago that there are LOTS of Guild improvements that he wants to see happen and wanted to see in the game from launch but priorities were elsewhere at that time.

Rubbish ! Mr Sage needs to go play EVE Online then. It has a global AH/Market, it is a megaserver game (single not even a NA/EU split) It has almost no isses, certainly none I've ever experienced and I'm a trader by choice in EVE. Also EVE has one of the most balanced, dynamic in-game economies of any MMO in existence !

God you are absolutely clueless aren't you? You ever played EVE??

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

DeLindsay wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

there are other reasons that at this time are out of their control. OFC that doesn't stop people from chastising ZoS for things they know nothing of.

Care to educate the rest of us with your 'inside' knowledge?

Paul Sage has said time and time again that due to the Megaserver, the technology just isn't present at this time to allow a global AH without itself causing serious issues.

GW2 shows a world-wide single AH system can work, ZOS simply have to accept they're incapable of doing what Anet can!

In fact I'd suggest GW2's structure makes it MORE complicated as there are many discrete servers to coordinate not just one!.

BTW, I have no idea what the 'Vlog' and 'Alog' you mention are, I read the official forums and site for my information, I don't recognise those acronyms.

mutharex

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

there are other reasons that at this time are out of their control. OFC that doesn't stop people from chastising ZoS for things they know nothing of.

Care to educate the rest of us with your 'inside' knowledge?

Paul Sage has said time and time again that due to the Megaserver, the technology just isn't present at this time to allow a global AH without itself causing serious issues.

GW2 shows a world-wide single AH system can work, ZOS simply have to accept they're incapable of doing what Anet can!

In fact I'd suggest GW2's structure makes it MORE complicated as there are many discrete servers to coordinate not just one!.

GW2 economy is a disaster, with mats and equipment often selling for less than vendor prices.... thank you for confirming that people who want an AH are simply clueless

mutharex

mutharex wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Simply putting lipstick on the pig that the 'guild economy' is.

ZOS are desperately looking for way to try rescue this failed idea and not have to admit they were wrong and implement a proper MMO economy based on an AH.

Not a failed idea, ZoS isn't wrong for choosing NOT to put in an AH, there are other reasons that at this time are out of their control. OFC that doesn't stop people from chastising ZoS for things they know nothing of.

Yep, guess my 20+ years of playing MMOs means I know nothing of how a dynamic in-game economy would work !
You only have to read through these forums to see how many people think the current iteration of trading has already failed !

LOL in you '20 years playing MMOs' how many global AHs have you seen outside of WoW and wowclones?

People who usually want these features have started playing WoW after WoTLK, expect all MMOs to be crap like that and lie to make up the fact that they haven't got a clue what they are talking about

If he said "I played WoW since Vanilla" no one would even bother reading this nonsense

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

mutharex wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

there are other reasons that at this time are out of their control. OFC that doesn't stop people from chastising ZoS for things they know nothing of.

Care to educate the rest of us with your 'inside' knowledge?

Paul Sage has said time and time again that due to the Megaserver, the technology just isn't present at this time to allow a global AH without itself causing serious issues.

GW2 shows a world-wide single AH system can work, ZOS simply have to accept they're incapable of doing what Anet can!

In fact I'd suggest GW2's structure makes it MORE complicated as there are many discrete servers to coordinate not just one!.

GW2 economy is a disaster, with mats and equipment often selling for less than vendor prices.... thank you for confirming that people who want an AH are simply clueless

Thank you for confirming you have no intention of letting facts get in the way of your blind defense of ZOS.

It's only a 'disaster' for people (like you perhaps?) who want to be able to price-gouge due to lack of viable competition.

I do find it interesting that your 'argument' here has nothing to do with the reasons Sage gave in the comments you cited.

mutharex

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

there are other reasons that at this time are out of their control. OFC that doesn't stop people from chastising ZoS for things they know nothing of.

Care to educate the rest of us with your 'inside' knowledge?

Paul Sage has said time and time again that due to the Megaserver, the technology just isn't present at this time to allow a global AH without itself causing serious issues.

GW2 shows a world-wide single AH system can work, ZOS simply have to accept they're incapable of doing what Anet can!

In fact I'd suggest GW2's structure makes it MORE complicated as there are many discrete servers to coordinate not just one!.

GW2 economy is a disaster, with mats and equipment often selling for less than vendor prices.... thank you for confirming that people who want an AH are simply clueless

Thank you for confirming you have no intention of letting facts ghet in the way of your blind defense of ZOS.

It's only a 'disaster' for people (like you perhaps?) who want to be able to price-gouge due to lack of viable competition.

Facts?? What facts have you actually brought forward??
Defend ZOS? I think you are really out the water with this, if you have to quote GW2 as an example of a working economy and when rebutted start insulting people.

Please just stop posting nonsense

PS I quoted who?? lol

DeLindsay

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

In fact I'd suggest GW2's structure makes it MORE complicated as there are many discrete servers to coordinate not just one!.

Out of curiosity since I've never played GW2 do you have any rough idea of how many static items (that is items that could be listed on a global AH) that GW2 had? I'm talking about all raw + refined materials, all enchantments including all of their materials, all recipes, all gear types of every level that are crafted or dropped, junk like fishing bait, etc. I ask because this is the challenge ZoS is facing with the sheer magnitude in volume of items that ESO has that can be sold/traded to other players. I can't even imagine the server load it would take just to list 5000 Sanded Maple as just one single example.

Our megaserver has a magnitude higher population than Shards/Realms/Slivers in other MMO's like Rift and WoW. You might have on a high pop "server" 3-10K players listing items at any given time. Hell in Rift they had to limit that to 200 per player due to server lag, but Rift is a poor comparison since it's always ran poorly. Now take that 10K and make it 100K or more and try to realize the technological nightmare they are facing. Quite simply a true Global AH would heavily impact ESO's stability at this time with our current technology, at least that's what Paul Sage has been repeating ad nauseam since even before the launch.

mips_winnt

mutharex wrote: »

LOL in you '20 years playing MMOs' how many global AHs have you seen outside of WoW and wowclones?

Technically WoW doesn't have any "Global" Auction Houses since:
1. WoW is subdivided into many independent realms
2. Each faction has it's own AH on each realm
3. There is a neutral faction AH on each realm usable by both factions (which in my experience hardly anybody ever used except to transfer money/items between alts of different factions).

mips_winnt

DeLindsay wrote: »

I can't even imagine the server load it would take just to list 5000 Sanded Maple as just one single example.

Honestly not much (unless of course your database design and/or hardware is sub par) , I also suspect that ESO (along with any other MMO of scale) isn't using a single RDBMS server for stuff like this (i.e. more than likely using distributed or federated designs) where the load is spread across multiple hosts.

I don't know the specifics of their systems and network architecture but I can say with a significant degree of confidence that it isn't the available hardware/software technology that's the limiting factor here, it's something else that's influencing their "Auction House" direction (i.e. gameplay objectives or limitations of their own platform).

I would be interesting to see technical brief on the platform but of course it's also unrealistic to expect any company to open their kimono that far with respect to the internals of their proprietary platform.

Madval

Fabulous ! I like it !

Aeradon

Love this trader idea. And hate global AH. I used to have fun playing AH like a stock trader, now ESO has brought me the fun of actual haggling.

It's fun, just like the old MMO that has no AH and only a simple barter system. Makes the game more human.

*edit* Global AH might make life easier, even in real life. But if it exists, I'll lose my job. Trading is meant to be human.

DeLindsay

Aeradon wrote: »

Love this trader idea. And hate global AH. I used to have fun playing AH like a stock trader, now ESO has brought me the fun of actual haggling.

It's fun, just like the old MMO that has no AH and only a simple barter system. Makes the game more human.

Agreed.

kherzaheb17_ESO

I like the idea and i have no problem with Traders Guild.

Nazon_Katts

Not to forget regional AHs would still be way, way better than what we got now and won't be that resource hungry either. It's up to ZOS to get their tech running and if others could do it, I won't accept technical reasons for not even trying.

The tech is there, ZOS expertise apparently not. But I'd give them the time needed to catch up, it they only would admit being obsessed with their rather special approach to player trade, ultimately ignoring the needs of a great portion of their (potential) player base.

Anyways, back on topic: Thanks for sharing! I appreciate it!

onlinegamer1

A global AH on a MegaServer is easy...

.... assuming ZoS actually hires a developer with a Computer Science degree, and who has not been unconscious for the last 10 years and has actually heard about NoSQL databases.

So........ yeah.......

Phantax

DeLindsay wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

there are other reasons that at this time are out of their control. OFC that doesn't stop people from chastising ZoS for things they know nothing of.

Care to educate the rest of us with your 'inside' knowledge?

Paul Sage has said time and time again that due to the Megaserver, the technology just isn't present at this time to allow a global AH without itself causing serious issues. He's said this in both VLogs and ALogs. That's why they are working to improve the Guild Store system. He also said in one of his ALogs with an internet gaming site about 2 months ago that there are LOTS of Guild improvements that he wants to see happen and wanted to see in the game from launch but priorities were elsewhere at that time.

Phantax wrote: »

Yep, guess my 20+ years of playing MMOs means I know nothing of how a dynamic in-game economy would work !
You only have to read through these forums to see how many people think the current iteration of trading has already failed !

That's awesome Phantax I wasn't aware that you've been a computer programmer for 20+ years working specifically in MMO design. Well, with you here giving suggestions ZoS should have everything cleared up by the end of this week right?

At no point did I say I've worked specifically on MMOs !