Raids should require two tanks.

moxiesauce

I feel that raiding should require two tanks for 12 man groups. I leveled as a tank and really enjoyed playing. Once I got to AA and Hel ra only 1 tank was needed for completion, and I found myself needed to go DPS. Some groups didn't even use a tank. I really feel the devs should put in fights that require the group to have two tanks. Any thought?

Ixtyr

I prefer the flexibility, personally. Sure, having two tanks, 3-4 healers, and 6+ DPS is nice for some groups, but when it comes to guild recruitment, PUGs, and general gameplay, being able to go in with a ragtag group of hybrids and not being restricted to a fixed requirement of classes and roles is beneficial. If you have a group of 12 people, and you want to run a more "traditional" MMO composition, then you can. But if you can't get that second tank, or third dedicated healer, or you want to try a group of all Sorcerers and see how it goes, you're free to do that. And that's nice, as far as I'm concerned.

NorthernFury

We need more tanks.

Maybe when they address the balance between stam and magicka builds, there will be more 'tanky' type offtank/Heavy DPS builds in trials.

Wifeaggro13

We need more tanks.

moxiesauce wrote: »

I feel that raiding should require two tanks for 12 man groups. I leveled as a tank and really enjoyed playing. Once I got to AA and Hel ra only 1 tank was needed for completion, and I found myself needed to go DPS. Some groups didn't even use a tank. I really feel the devs should put in fights that require the group to have two tanks. Any thought?

Seriously we need actual tanking role with the current sloppy agro mechanics, Heavy armor mitigationg nothing extra. and just about every encounter requiring maximum AOE DPS . i cant even say one tank is required. You need DPS with a taunt and thats it. mitigation and heavy armor are comletely broken, or badly designed i dont know which but im leaning towards bad design as there is no response from the Devs

Aeratus

Wait, you mean there are tanks in this game? I thought there were only:

1. DPS
2. DPS that heals
3. DPS designated to block a lot

Wifeaggro13

We need more tanks.

Aeratus wrote: »

Wait, you mean there are tanks in this game? I thought there were only:

1. DPS
2. DPS that heals
3. DPS designated to block a lot

It is a major turn off . Ive argued this point to nauseam with people. Primarily people who dont Tank Vr content nor have aany of the VR dungeons actually completed when questioned past their opinion. The current mechanics are pretty boring . it requires little skill or managment or knowledge to do . its spam some AOE and CC and hold block every so often.

Soloeus

It's fine how it is.

moxiesauce wrote: »

I feel that raiding should require two tanks for 12 man groups. I leveled as a tank and really enjoyed playing. Once I got to AA and Hel ra only 1 tank was needed for completion, and I found myself needed to go DPS. Some groups didn't even use a tank. I really feel the devs should put in fights that require the group to have two tanks. Any thought?

I don't want to be forced to bring more thanks. That means inserting more enemies that do high damage and forces more Aggro Control, which means I have to do less DPS to keep Aggro off me. It also means with the Wonky CC issues as of late get worse.

There is nothing wrong with only one tank. Why not require exactly 4 of each? Why not require 6 healers? Why not require 8 DPS? This goes in circles.

Wifeaggro13

We need more tanks.

Soloeus wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

I feel that raiding should require two tanks for 12 man groups. I leveled as a tank and really enjoyed playing. Once I got to AA and Hel ra only 1 tank was needed for completion, and I found myself needed to go DPS. Some groups didn't even use a tank. I really feel the devs should put in fights that require the group to have two tanks. Any thought?

I don't want to be forced to bring more thanks. That means inserting more enemies that do high damage and forces more Aggro Control, which means I have to do less DPS to keep Aggro off me. It also means with the Wonky CC issues as of late get worse.

There is nothing wrong with only one tank. Why not require exactly 4 of each? Why not require 6 healers? Why not require 8 DPS? This goes in circles.

because you don't even need one tank . Its fine if you like playing straight DPS.
Some of us actually like the role. whats wrong with two tanks out of 12 slots curently ther is 9 DPS and 3 heals for Trials.

Audigy

We need more tanks.

From a tanks perspective it would encourage more of our kind to actually play a tank.

At WOW we had the problem that since they went for their only 1 tank + OT strategy, tanks had incredible huge issues finding a raid spot. Especially when you are the Raid Leader as I was, it means no other tank will ever be able to go - which is a big issue for other players and lets face it, most Leaders are tanks.

Also its a lot more fun to have a buddy on your side as a tank, I always enjoyed it during Vanilla and TBC and partly WOTLK. It opens up a lot of potential for boss tactics as well, away from the silly enrage mass DPS tactics that most MMOs do these days, back to real strategy and hard work.

Yes I know not everyone likes the demand of "skill" in MMOs, but the current raiding at most MMOs is just plain silly and easy, all about DPS - its boring if you ask me.

moxiesauce

We need more tanks.

Soloeus wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

I feel that raiding should require two tanks for 12 man groups. I leveled as a tank and really enjoyed playing. Once I got to AA and Hel ra only 1 tank was needed for completion, and I found myself needed to go DPS. Some groups didn't even use a tank. I really feel the devs should put in fights that require the group to have two tanks. Any thought?

I don't want to be forced to bring more thanks. That means inserting more enemies that do high damage and forces more Aggro Control, which means I have to do less DPS to keep Aggro off me. It also means with the Wonky CC issues as of late get worse.

There is nothing wrong with only one tank. Why not require exactly 4 of each? Why not require 6 healers? Why not require 8 DPS? This goes in circles.

because tanks are the less needed role in the game, I think they deserve more love. By requiring two tanks for only Boss fight mechanics it would serve to have more people play the tank role.

MonkeyAssassin24

Soloeus wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

I feel that raiding should require two tanks for 12 man groups. I leveled as a tank and really enjoyed playing. Once I got to AA and Hel ra only 1 tank was needed for completion, and I found myself needed to go DPS. Some groups didn't even use a tank. I really feel the devs should put in fights that require the group to have two tanks. Any thought?

I don't want to be forced to bring more thanks. That means inserting more enemies that do high damage and forces more Aggro Control, which means I have to do less DPS to keep Aggro off me. It also means with the Wonky CC issues as of late get worse.

There is nothing wrong with only one tank. Why not require exactly 4 of each? Why not require 6 healers? Why not require 8 DPS? This goes in circles.

I have to agree with this, though it may just be in the wording of your title where it says that raids should require two tanks. This game already has some of the most confusing and chaotic aggro mechanics I've ever seen in a game so if they simply add higher dmg bosses and enemies or even more of them it will just cause raids to be painful instead of challenging.

If anything they just need to fix the aggro system and change the way that mitigation works, especially in regards to heavy armor and physical damage reduction. Those are the systems that need to be fixed and this will create scenarios where one or two tanks becomes optimal without becoming a requirement of the content.

Wifeaggro13

We need more tanks.

MonkeyAssassin24 wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

I feel that raiding should require two tanks for 12 man groups. I leveled as a tank and really enjoyed playing. Once I got to AA and Hel ra only 1 tank was needed for completion, and I found myself needed to go DPS. Some groups didn't even use a tank. I really feel the devs should put in fights that require the group to have two tanks. Any thought?

I don't want to be forced to bring more thanks. That means inserting more enemies that do high damage and forces more Aggro Control, which means I have to do less DPS to keep Aggro off me. It also means with the Wonky CC issues as of late get worse.

There is nothing wrong with only one tank. Why not require exactly 4 of each? Why not require 6 healers? Why not require 8 DPS? This goes in circles.

I have to agree with this, though it may just be in the wording of your title where it says that raids should require two tanks. This game already has some of the most confusing and chaotic aggro mechanics I've ever seen in a game so if they simply add higher dmg bosses and enemies or even more of them it will just cause raids to be painful instead of challenging.

If anything they just need to fix the aggro system and change the way that mitigation works, especially in regards to heavy armor and physical damage reduction. Those are the systems that need to be fixed and this will create scenarios where one or two tanks becomes optimal without becoming a requirement of the content.

they are not even a requirement and actually non optimal all the way around. ive two of them and there both in dress and stick

moxiesauce

We need more tanks.

MonkeyAssassin24 wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

I feel that raiding should require two tanks for 12 man groups. I leveled as a tank and really enjoyed playing. Once I got to AA and Hel ra only 1 tank was needed for completion, and I found myself needed to go DPS. Some groups didn't even use a tank. I really feel the devs should put in fights that require the group to have two tanks. Any thought?

I don't want to be forced to bring more thanks. That means inserting more enemies that do high damage and forces more Aggro Control, which means I have to do less DPS to keep Aggro off me. It also means with the Wonky CC issues as of late get worse.

There is nothing wrong with only one tank. Why not require exactly 4 of each? Why not require 6 healers? Why not require 8 DPS? This goes in circles.

I have to agree with this, though it may just be in the wording of your title where it says that raids should require two tanks. This game already has some of the most confusing and chaotic aggro mechanics I've ever seen in a game so if they simply add higher dmg bosses and enemies or even more of them it will just cause raids to be painful instead of challenging.

If anything they just need to fix the aggro system and change the way that mitigation works, especially in regards to heavy armor and physical damage reduction. Those are the systems that need to be fixed and this will create scenarios where one or two tanks becomes optimal without becoming a requirement of the content.

I'll have to agree, currently there's only two taunts in game and if another player taunts it's suppose to overlap the existing taunt. Just working on the mechanics of taunts in general to make them less buggy would be amazing. Idea for an ultimate "Causes all nearby enemies to attack player" cost 75 ulti.. Tanks already struggle enough with ulti. gen so for it being cheap would work and you could find players making great use of an aoe taunt ability that would of course need some sort of CD.

Neutronium_Dragon

It's fine how it is.

No. Formulaic design will mean formulaic (and ultimately, dull and predictable) encounters.

SFBryan18

It's fine how it is.

You can play how you want, but give me the same freedom. The freedom to roll with a bunch of DPS. :P

moxiesauce

We need more tanks.

Neutronium_Dragon wrote: »

No. Formulaic design will mean formulaic (and ultimately, dull and predictable) encounters.

I should really change the word "required" in the title, but what I really want to see is more situations in which an additional tank would be preferred as a strategy to finish a boss encounter. An example would be a boss splitting in two for a phase then adds for the off phase. Of course something like this may be solo tanked, and kited by dps, but an additional tank could ease the stress of the fight.

Wifeaggro13

We need more tanks.

Neutronium_Dragon wrote: »

No. Formulaic design will mean formulaic (and ultimately, dull and predictable) encounters.

Its fine with no tanks is what your saying? The VR content not even one required.

crislevin

It's fine how it is.

Even more restriction on play style? IDK, i don't like the idea.

There shouldn't be 12 people trial to begin with. whats the point?

Dusty5

It's fine how it is.

next a poll on if the 2nd tank has to be a panda

moxiesauce

We need more tanks.

crislevin wrote: »

Even more restriction on play style? IDK, i don't like the idea.

There shouldn't be 12 people trial to begin with. whats the point?

I don't like your logic.

eliisra

We need more tanks.

Agreed. The game could also use more spots for heal/support.

I prefer tanking or healing over dps'ing. Yet I always have to dps, if I want to run trials. There is usually only 1 spot for tanking. Healing is 1-2 spots, depending on boss.

Also noticing how a lot of guild and premade groups lack dps for trials. While they're overloaded with players crying for a spot as tank or healer. They just cant find enough devoted people interested in playing main dps.

But I guess it's the fundamental design of trials causing this, being dps races. You can't afford extra tank or heal, if you want a a good result. You only need loads and loads of dps, therefore those spots becomes harder to fill.

Nox_Aeterna

In ESO , there is no point in even having one "tank" to begin with.

Honestly , until they actually balance the armors better , check the agroo ...

There is no place for this poll.

moxiesauce

We need more tanks.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

In ESO , there is no point in even having one "tank" to begin with.

Honestly , until they actually balance the armors better , check the agroo ...

There is no place for this poll.

When was the last time you finished AA or Hel ra w/o a tank, your argument is invalid.

MisterBigglesworth

Not only should they have more strictly enforced roles (i.e. set number of tanks, set number of healers, etc) for certain high-end content... but for the very highest difficulty level of Trials there should be boss encounters where specific class abilities are required.

Examples:

• Mobs that must be one-shot from stealth (NB's Ambush) or else they will do something crazy and wipe the group.
• Flying mobs that must be pulled down (DK's Fiery Grip) in order to be quickly killed.
• Kiting around a fast, dangerous mob (Sorc's Bolt Escape)
• A large number of mobs that need to be killed but are on the other side of a chasm, so only a targeted AOE (Temp's Spear Shards) will do the trick

Again, this would only be for those crazy hardcore players looking for some extra challenge... so if you're the sort of person who would complain about a system like this, good news: this content isn't for you!

Mud_Puppy

We need more tanks.

In all the trial groups I have been in I've been the only one tanking, and some groups don't even use a tank, they just out dps the boss.

As a tanking enthusiast I would very much like to see more of a challenge for us.

eventide03b14a_ESO

moxiesauce wrote: »

I feel that raiding should require two tanks for 12 man groups. I leveled as a tank and really enjoyed playing. Once I got to AA and Hel ra only 1 tank was needed for completion, and I found myself needed to go DPS. Some groups didn't even use a tank. I really feel the devs should put in fights that require the group to have two tanks. Any thought?

The problem would be more with the group mechanics. The reason why tanks are optional is that taunting in this game is a hassle. Why are none of the taunts aoe? Since keeping aggro is such a pain most DPS have learned to be self sufficient when dealing with trash. I don't really see the need for two tanks honestly and most MMO's don't use more than one tank per group except for certain bosses that have special tactics.

moxiesauce

We need more tanks.

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

I feel that raiding should require two tanks for 12 man groups. I leveled as a tank and really enjoyed playing. Once I got to AA and Hel ra only 1 tank was needed for completion, and I found myself needed to go DPS. Some groups didn't even use a tank. I really feel the devs should put in fights that require the group to have two tanks. Any thought?

The problem would be more with the group mechanics. The reason why tanks are optional is that taunting in this game is a hassle. Why are none of the taunts aoe? Since keeping aggro is such a pain most DPS have learned to be self sufficient when dealing with trash. I don't really see the need for two tanks honestly and most MMO's don't use more than one tank per group except for certain bosses that have special tactics.

That's pretty much the idea though, to have more boss encounters where a 2nd tank would be very beneficial. As for aoe taunted I suggested giving players an Ulti with cheap cost that taunts all nearby enemies. Make it the ulti for the undaunted.

shiva7663

I was wondering if they were going to design a boss fight that required the fight to ping pong between two tanks.

DeLindsay

It's fine how it is.

I'm all for ZoS adding boss mechanics that require 2 or even 3 tanks but Trials (Raids) don't NEED 2 or more tanks to be any good. That's thinking like a traditional MMO, which ESO is clearly not. What I'd like to see is a Trial that isn't based on times so it's not all about 1 tank, 1 "healer", 10 max leet deeps and the players have to actually DO something other than kill as fast as humanly possible. Something with lots of mechanics that are more about raid awareness than actual DPS output.

Or even boss fights that are more about mitigating certain damage types (forcing players to wear 1-3 pcs of Jewelry with X resist on it) and 2-4 Healers just to survive certain phases.

moxiesauce

We need more tanks.

DeLindsay wrote: »

I'm all for ZoS adding boss mechanics that require 2 or even 3 tanks but Trials (Raids) don't NEED 2 or more tanks to be any good. That's thinking like a traditional MMO, which ESO is clearly not. What I'd like to see is a Trial that isn't based on times so it's not all about 1 tank, 1 "healer", 10 max leet deeps and the players have to actually DO something other than kill as fast as humanly possible. Something with lots of mechanics that are more about raid awareness than actual DPS output.

Or even boss fights that are more about mitigating certain damage types (forcing players to wear 1-3 pcs of Jewelry with X resist on it) and 2-4 Healers just to survive certain phases.

Was just looking up on the Paul Sage interview, they are in talks of adding large scale raid's with out a timer. Not in the near future though.

IceDread

It's fine how it is.

Flexibility and not the old shackles please.