I'd really like to play melee

Lynx7386

But everything in this game is weighed against it. Melee always has trouble in MMO's, but ESO in particular seems fond of stomping on anyone that wants to fight up close.

In PvE, the AoE effects in group content are the main deterrent. Why play melee when you can use a staff, stay at a safe range from attacks, have far better resource management, and do greater damage?

In PvP, the nature of zerg-swarm bombing balls makes Melee combatants useless. While everyone else pounces on you and spams impulse and ultimates, you're lucky to get out a single attack before dying. Neither the 2handed or dual wield AoE's come anywhere near impulse's effectiveness in AoE situations, both are more costly, and they have less powerful effects linked to them.

When soloing, especially at veteran rank, you're always better off killing as many enemies from a distance as possible before they can close the gap to attack you. A ranged combatant can stand in one place and interrupt enemy casters at a distance with crushing shock or poison arrow, while a melee player has to constantly juggle back and forth between enemies to keep them from casting.


Of the three melee options we have available - 2handed, dual wield, and 1handed + shield - dual wield is the only one that has fairly good synergy between it's skills, and between it's skills and class skills. It also has the most interesting abilities, while nearly everything from the 2handed and shield lines is nothing short of bland. The shield is only useful for tanking, and only because it has such good passives for blocking incoming damage - with inner fire, nobody even uses the shield line's abilities.

2handed's greatest source of damage comes from a long cast time, heavily choreographed ability that can be easily avoided in pvp. Cleave's reliance on a damage over time effect for the bulk of it's damage (which, by the way, is useless on half the enemies in the game due to being labelled as a bleed effect) greatly hinders it's usage in aoe situations where you want to continually hit those enemies. Reverse slash does less damage than any of the three class-based executes (impale, biting jabs, or mage's fury) and costs more to use. Momentum will quickly put you into the weapon damage softcap, if you werent there already, and even if you dont get overcharged the damage bonus it provides is exceptionally low (why wait 20 seconds for 20% extra weapon damage when I can get 99% extra weapon damage instantly with power extraction?).

The sword and shield line lacks offensive power, and none of it's abilities are 'interesting' or 'cool' enough to warrant using even for visual effect. The only commonly used ability in the entire tree is puncture/ransack/pierce armor, and only because it taunts enemies - and even that is only used before inner fire is obtained from the undaunted line. Defensive posture is less effective than either backlash or reflective scale, as it only reflects a single projectile while both of the alternatives last for a duration and reflect everything during that duration. Low slash is entirely underwhelming, and power bash is lacking in damage and provides nothing that a class ability cant do better.




So, rant over, what is ZOS doing about this? Will this game ever be melee-friendly, or will we eternally be doomed to wielding bows and staves to be competetive in any content?

rotatorkuf

nothing

their trivial "balance updates" are doing absolutely nothing for melee weapon/stamina builds

cause they're afraid they're going to become OP and out of balance if they do something "radical"....but yeah, something radical needs to be done

cause you know, the game isn't already out of balance...

lols

Tendeep

Sadly I agree, and posted this a few days back... they bombed hard when it comes to melee/Stamina and heavy/medium armor builds.


I respec'd my Templar from a "Paladin" type hybrid, Sword and Board/2H melee with some heals and heavy armor to a... wait for it...

100% light armor with resto staff build... it is the only way to keep up now.


Sad faces all around ZOS - so sad.
-
Your claim to fix melee and stamina builds just didn't come quick enough, -Epic fail for this game, find a soft spot to land everyone ;-) we are going down.

Soloeus

In Darkfall you have great melee because there are smaller, much smaller hit boxes. In melee you can bob and weave like crazy and make people miss you while you hit them. It becomes a game of skill.

The problem is that Darkfall had slower, higher jumping than ESO which means players would "Bunnyhop" (taking advantage of lag, difficulty of hitting small zig-zagging hitboxes, etc.) and they would Jump, 180 degree turn, shoot fireball, 180 degree turn, land, jump... repeat.

ESO would have better melee if the hit boxes were a little smaller. Not too small like in darkfall but just a little smaller than they are now.

Melee in this game is kinda boring there is no real combat fluidity and you are like a stiff board beating on other stiff boards until someone hits 0 hp or does a CC of some kind. "Speeding it up" however would make playing ranged-distance too hard because you would never be able to hit anyone. That would kinda make PVP like Call of Duty and nobody wants that.

There is a fine balance with no perfect and ESO does it pretty nicely. It could do it a little better of course, but "Action Fluidity" and "Weapon Damage" are the 2 things that would fix it.

SaibotLiu

Archeage has awesome melee for PVP. And it has full open world PVP, ships, and can own your own farm and build your own house, you can kill people on your own side or trash their farms and be put on trail, and go to jail and subsequently escape from jail. It's also has an excellent Asian theme that is pretty alright.

Or I can stay in ESO and wear a skirt or get owned by those who do wears skirts while feeling insignificant in the scheme of things against massive objective based PVP zergs.

I truly wish ESO the best in the future, and I think they made a great game, they just can't get a handle on making different builds PVP viable and fun, or making PVP fun for that matter. Too bad because the rest of their game is pretty decent.

Soothy

Tendeep wrote: »

Your claim to fix melee and stamina builds just didn't come quick enough, -Epic fail for this game, find a soft spot to land everyone ;-) we are going down.

I respec'ed from stamina based melee to...mostly stamina based melee again. I'm sure I'm highly disadvantaged in PvP but for PvE, it's not really all that bad.
There have been little tweaks here and there, or so I think. It could be an optical illusion, but my stamina based attacks seem to use less stamina now.

Mr.Turtlesworth

Totally agree.

badmojo

I'm surprised how good I've been doing in PVP with my melee abilities. It's certainly not a 'rambo' type class that take on multiple enemies and survive. But, in a good group it's a hell of a lot of fun.

I find it's important to have some ranged abilities in a melee build. You can't always fight melee, so being able to hold your own at distance and contribute to the fight is great, it also keeps you occupied and not always looking for a melee fight. But, when some enemies bust forward and try to run amok in your line of casters, it's great to pull out the melee abilities and force them to deal with you first.

Hilgara

Lets look at this logically. Through the history of warfare ranged weaponry has changes from being inaccurate with little damage to very accurate with massive damage. Early history armies were mostly made up of melee since hand to hand combat was a more reliable method of killing the enemy. Roman legions included archers but were only a small contingent of the overall fighting force. Not until The battle of Crecy in 1346 where an army almost solely made up of English longbow men beat and army of French nights, did ranged weaponry start to become prevalent on the battlefield. So it really depends on what equivalent time in history ESO is placed in.
Of course the part of ESO that doesn’t reflect in history is magick abilities. Bows are relatively weak in ESO but I think more accurately reflect damage effectiveness in relation to melee combat around the time ESO appears to be set. The armour and weaponry looks pre-roman to me, a time when chopping someone's head off was more effective than trying to hit them with an arrow from 28 meters away.

Blooddancer

Firstly I love playing melee, I actually enjoyed getting my NB to VR2 until I got stuck at which point I rolled a DK and am loving that too. If I want to go around spamming balls of fire and wearing a frock I'll roll a sorc rather than respec a melee class character.

Second point, This is not history, this is a game, reality/physics/reason have nothing to do with it, if they did every D&D group I ever played in would have consisted of 4-6 mages, a 20 foot pole and 50 feet of rope. And then would have vanished in a plume of smoke cos magic is not real people (spoiler alert).

Hilgara

Blooddancer wrote: »

Firstly I love playing melee, I actually enjoyed getting my NB to VR2 until I got stuck at which point I rolled a DK and am loving that too. If I want to go around spamming balls of fire and wearing a frock I'll roll a sorc rather than respec a melee class character.

Second point, This is not history, this is a game, reality/physics/reason have nothing to do with it.

maybe so but if you want to avoid everyone rolling ranged classes then a good place to get a few ideas from is the real world, or at least the real world for the time period. ESO wants every class to be viable. it also want to hark back to a period we can all relate to historically

Ninnghizhidda

Now going into the "history of warfare" analysis and trying to make a comparison with ESO, or any similar fantasy game... Is really not going to do justice to the game, any game.

Of course, as human technology evolves anyone would expect armies to fight each other with clubs and axes up close and personal, still? And while there is still "melee" out in the battlefields it can not resemble what it used to be in Ancient or even Medieval times. And this is not the point.

In a fantasy game, and one that is not placed in a modern or future era, rather in an "old fashion Middle Ages" one, you do have to think somewhat different. Even in a world where "magick" is common and much used.

There is just one point, to make things simple and avoiding an endless analysis. You do have to design a way to allow for both types of combat, melee and ranged, to have equal efficiency, not in every situation, because obviously both types have pros and cons.

And I say melee and ranged, and not "magick" although, mostly, "mages" do use ranged skills and combat. But you could certainly have melee combat using or being enhanced by "magick" skills too.

Bottom line: ESO is one of those games heavily biased against melee combat, characters and builds. This is what it is.

It is a very bad design in my humble opinion, a huge let down and disappointment. Because, especially about The Elder Scrolls series games, in every game since Daggerfall, I have been perfectly able to build a perfect and very powerful character specialising in melee and using weapon abilities as the prime tools of the trade. Not just good, but feeling awesome, being able to complete everything in the game, granted some tasks might be harder than others, but this is how it should feel. It should not feel pathetic, too hard, pitiful, impossible, not all the freaking time. It should not feel that a melee character is the laughing stock of the game, the pariah, the outcast, the "real noob".

And this is what it feels in ESO, currently. Greatest disappointment in 20 years of Elder Scrolls history, I will repeat this once again.

Conclusion: Fix it. Hopefully soon. Hopefully it is still possible. It is getting old, tiresome and utterly uninspiring to play in an otherwise awesome game and environment knowing you severely limit your options when choosing an "archetypal", and why not, even "popular" (well maybe not in ESO) character type. And watching armies of "Harry Potters" just about everywhere "facerolling" everything and anything.

MrMT

badmojo wrote: »

I'm surprised how good I've been doing in PVP with my melee abilities. It's certainly not a 'rambo' type class that take on multiple enemies and survive. But, in a good group it's a hell of a lot of fun.

I don't think anyone doubts it's fun. It is indeed very fun to hack and slash with a giant sword of stabby blades. But you are undoubtedly weaker than a magika build.

I finally gave up this week. I realise my 2h/bow medium armor werewolf was simply not up to par in PVP, and there was little point waiting any more.

I took off my leathers, I lifted my curse, and am now a magika focused class skill using resto staff/dw user. I have become - no exaggeration - about twice as powerful as before.

If this changes after 1.3, I'll happily switch back. (Although there is no evidence of ww ever becoming anything other than a self-gimping rp feature).

Slurg

I love melee and heavy as armor. Nothing quite like jumping into the fray and hacking away at the enemy. PVE is totally playable this way. There's nothing so far i havent been able to defeat. But to be a melee player it's best to be OK with dying more and not leveling as fast as the dress and stick kids. If your goal is fun, give melee a try. If your goal is to level fast without getting bloody and never ever die, melee prolly isn't for you.

Tannakaobi

Lynx7386 wrote: »

But everything in this game is weighed against it. Melee always has trouble in MMO's, but ESO in particular seems fond of stomping on anyone that wants to fight up close.

I have four characters and three are Melee. In all the mmo's I have played I choose, melee and generally don't have issues. In ESO I don't have issues

In PvE, the AoE effects in group content are the main deterrent. Why play melee when you can use a staff, stay at a safe range from attacks, have far better resource management, and do greater damage?

er... because you want too? A better question would be why use a staff when you want to use melee? It causes problems in dungeons because of the ignorance of the players. People like you telling everyone that Melee is no good, the thruth is more like you are no good.

In PvP, the nature of zerg-swarm bombing balls makes Melee combatants useless. While everyone else pounces on you and spams impulse and ultimates, you're lucky to get out a single attack before dying. Neither the 2handed or dual wield AoE's come anywhere near impulse's effectiveness in AoE situations, both are more costly, and they have less powerful effects linked to them.

I'm not going to get into this, all I will say is, if you think that no one can Melee in PVP then you have simply not even been in any PVP

When soloing, especially at veteran rank, you're always better off killing as many enemies from a distance as possible before they can close the gap to attack you. A ranged combatant can stand in one place and interrupt enemy casters at a distance with crushing shock or poison arrow, while a melee player has to constantly juggle back and forth between enemies to keep them from casting.

Your just repeating the same thing, I didn't agree the first time, but here is the thing. Melee takes SKILL!

Of the three melee options we have available - 2handed, dual wield, and 1handed + shield - dual wield is the only one that has fairly good synergy between it's skills, and between it's skills and class skills. It also has the most interesting abilities, while nearly everything from the 2handed and shield lines is nothing short of bland. The shield is only useful for tanking, and only because it has such good passives for blocking incoming damage - with inner fire, nobody even uses the shield line's abilities.

Over my characters I use all of the mentioned weapons, I never have more than two weapon skills on a skill bar. Just like every other skill they are there to accompany your class skills, for example two handed charge is really good for a DK that want to get around quickly.

2handed's greatest source of damage comes from a long cast time, heavily choreographed ability that can be easily avoided in pvp. Cleave's reliance on a damage over time effect for the bulk of it's damage (which, by the way, is useless on half the enemies in the game due to being labelled as a bleed effect) greatly hinders it's usage in aoe situations where you want to continually hit those enemies. Reverse slash does less damage than any of the three class-based executes (impale, biting jabs, or mage's fury) and costs more to use. Momentum will quickly put you into the weapon damage softcap, if you werent there already, and even if you dont get overcharged the damage bonus it provides is exceptionally low (why wait 20 seconds for 20% extra weapon damage when I can get 99% extra weapon damage instantly with power extraction?).

Two handed is more aoe based and is not great in PVP, but then what weapon is? Weapon skill are designed to go hand in hand with other skills as mentioned above. Another example is Blood Craze, the morph of twin slashes, really useful for a NB as it is quick to use does pretty good damage and heals over time.

The sword and shield line lacks offensive power, and none of it's abilities are 'interesting' or 'cool' enough to warrant using even for visual effect. The only commonly used ability in the entire tree is puncture/ransack/pierce armor, and only because it taunts enemies - and even that is only used before inner fire is obtained from the undaunted line. Defensive posture is less effective than either backlash or reflective scale, as it only reflects a single projectile while both of the alternatives last for a duration and reflect everything during that duration. Low slash is entirely underwhelming, and power bash is lacking in damage and provides nothing that a class ability cant do better.

It's a tank weapon, for tanking their is no better weapon choice... Also I disagree, their are some cools attacks - Power slam, Crippling slash...

So, rant over, what is ZOS doing about this? Will this game ever be melee-friendly, or will we eternally be doomed to wielding bows and staves to be competetive in any content?

Melee is competitive! Put it this way, a melee DK will slaughter a ranged DK almost every time if both players are skilled.

badmojo

MrMT wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

I'm surprised how good I've been doing in PVP with my melee abilities. It's certainly not a 'rambo' type class that take on multiple enemies and survive. But, in a good group it's a hell of a lot of fun.

I don't think anyone doubts it's fun. It is indeed very fun to hack and slash with a giant sword of stabby blades. But you are undoubtedly weaker than a magika build.

To me, my build is like a swiss army knife, compared to the megicka build being a machete. Sure, if I quest with a magicka build in robes I would kick some serious ass. But, when I'm in Cyrodiil in a group of 20, I would rather have the versatility of my class rather then being another staff wielding mage in a dress.

Sometimes it's not always about how much damage you can do, but what you can do to help your team win.

Falmer

I only play 1-50 on my characters, and I can say with all confidence that there is nothing wrong with melee builds.

They work just fine if played well. They just take a bit more know-how.

Lynx7386

Falmer wrote: »

I only play 1-50 on my characters, and I can say with all confidence that there is nothing wrong with melee builds.

They work just fine if played well. They just take a bit more know-how.

You cant say something 'with confidence' when you're hardly playing half of the game.

Go through vet content, try doing trials as a melee DPS, it aint happening.

badmojo

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Falmer wrote: »

I only play 1-50 on my characters, and I can say with all confidence that there is nothing wrong with melee builds.

They work just fine if played well. They just take a bit more know-how.

You cant say something 'with confidence' when you're hardly playing half of the game.

Go through vet content, try doing trials as a melee DPS, it aint happening.

One player being melee is going to stop a 12 person group from completing trials? That's rather hard to believe.

I've done the rest though, played through vet content(before the nerf), did a bunch of PVP starting at VR1, I had no problems with it.

Nobody is going to argue about magicka builds being stronger, but to say "it ain't happening" when talking about being able to play the game as melee, is pretty inaccurate.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

badmojo wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Falmer wrote: »

I only play 1-50 on my characters, and I can say with all confidence that there is nothing wrong with melee builds.

They work just fine if played well. They just take a bit more know-how.

You cant say something 'with confidence' when you're hardly playing half of the game.

Go through vet content, try doing trials as a melee DPS, it aint happening.

One player being melee is going to stop a 12 person group from completing trials? That's rather hard to believe.

I've done the rest though, played through vet content(before the nerf), did a bunch of PVP starting at VR1, I had no problems with it.

Nobody is going to argue about magicka builds being stronger, but to say "it ain't happening" when talking about being able to play the game as melee, is pretty inaccurate.

yes one person playing melee is going to stop a 12 person group. You will be laughed at and kicked.

badmojo

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Falmer wrote: »

I only play 1-50 on my characters, and I can say with all confidence that there is nothing wrong with melee builds.

They work just fine if played well. They just take a bit more know-how.

You cant say something 'with confidence' when you're hardly playing half of the game.

Go through vet content, try doing trials as a melee DPS, it aint happening.

One player being melee is going to stop a 12 person group from completing trials? That's rather hard to believe.

I've done the rest though, played through vet content(before the nerf), did a bunch of PVP starting at VR1, I had no problems with it.

Nobody is going to argue about magicka builds being stronger, but to say "it ain't happening" when talking about being able to play the game as melee, is pretty inaccurate.

yes one person playing melee is going to stop a 12 person group. You will be laughed at and kicked.

Yeah, exactly, the group will have an issue, not the game. I'd rather not be grouped with such closed minded individuals anyway.

Gilvoth

Lynx7386 wrote: »

But everything in this game is weighed against it. Melee always has trouble in MMO's, but ESO in particular seems fond of stomping on anyone that wants to fight up close.

In PvE, the AoE effects in group content are the main deterrent. Why play melee when you can use a staff, stay at a safe range from attacks, have far better resource management, and do greater damage?

In PvP, the nature of zerg-swarm bombing balls makes Melee combatants useless. While everyone else pounces on you and spams impulse and ultimates, you're lucky to get out a single attack before dying. Neither the 2handed or dual wield AoE's come anywhere near impulse's effectiveness in AoE situations, both are more costly, and they have less powerful effects linked to them.

When soloing, especially at veteran rank, you're always better off killing as many enemies from a distance as possible before they can close the gap to attack you. A ranged combatant can stand in one place and interrupt enemy casters at a distance with crushing shock or poison arrow, while a melee player has to constantly juggle back and forth between enemies to keep them from casting.


Of the three melee options we have available - 2handed, dual wield, and 1handed + shield - dual wield is the only one that has fairly good synergy between it's skills, and between it's skills and class skills. It also has the most interesting abilities, while nearly everything from the 2handed and shield lines is nothing short of bland. The shield is only useful for tanking, and only because it has such good passives for blocking incoming damage - with inner fire, nobody even uses the shield line's abilities.

2handed's greatest source of damage comes from a long cast time, heavily choreographed ability that can be easily avoided in pvp. Cleave's reliance on a damage over time effect for the bulk of it's damage (which, by the way, is useless on half the enemies in the game due to being labelled as a bleed effect) greatly hinders it's usage in aoe situations where you want to continually hit those enemies. Reverse slash does less damage than any of the three class-based executes (impale, biting jabs, or mage's fury) and costs more to use. Momentum will quickly put you into the weapon damage softcap, if you werent there already, and even if you dont get overcharged the damage bonus it provides is exceptionally low (why wait 20 seconds for 20% extra weapon damage when I can get 99% extra weapon damage instantly with power extraction?).

The sword and shield line lacks offensive power, and none of it's abilities are 'interesting' or 'cool' enough to warrant using even for visual effect. The only commonly used ability in the entire tree is puncture/ransack/pierce armor, and only because it taunts enemies - and even that is only used before inner fire is obtained from the undaunted line. Defensive posture is less effective than either backlash or reflective scale, as it only reflects a single projectile while both of the alternatives last for a duration and reflect everything during that duration. Low slash is entirely underwhelming, and power bash is lacking in damage and provides nothing that a class ability cant do better.




So, rant over, what is ZOS doing about this? Will this game ever be melee-friendly, or will we eternally be doomed to wielding bows and staves to be competetive in any content?

awesome post, i agree with you and find it intelligent and i also wish to play my stamina built nightblade as an equal on the field in pvp. sadly tho i do not know whats going to happen.
i was hoping that maybe the developers were being silent because maybe the dark brotherhood and the thieves guild would offer something that will be good
for the stamina builds?
i may be just seting myself up for a strong disapointment so i really dont know what to think any more about this situation.

Erock25

Ninnghizhidda wrote: »

Now going into the "history of warfare" analysis and trying to make a comparison with ESO, or any similar fantasy game... Is really not going to do justice to the game, any game.

Of course, as human technology evolves anyone would expect armies to fight each other with clubs and axes up close and personal, still? And while there is still "melee" out in the battlefields it can not resemble what it used to be in Ancient or even Medieval times. And this is not the point.

In a fantasy game, and one that is not placed in a modern or future era, rather in an "old fashion Middle Ages" one, you do have to think somewhat different. Even in a world where "magick" is common and much used.

There is just one point, to make things simple and avoiding an endless analysis. You do have to design a way to allow for both types of combat, melee and ranged, to have equal efficiency, not in every situation, because obviously both types have pros and cons.

And I say melee and ranged, and not "magick" although, mostly, "mages" do use ranged skills and combat. But you could certainly have melee combat using or being enhanced by "magick" skills too.

Bottom line: ESO is one of those games heavily biased against melee combat, characters and builds. This is what it is.

It is a very bad design in my humble opinion, a huge let down and disappointment. Because, especially about The Elder Scrolls series games, in every game since Daggerfall, I have been perfectly able to build a perfect and very powerful character specialising in melee and using weapon abilities as the prime tools of the trade. Not just good, but feeling awesome, being able to complete everything in the game, granted some tasks might be harder than others, but this is how it should feel. It should not feel pathetic, too hard, pitiful, impossible, not all the freaking time. It should not feel that a melee character is the laughing stock of the game, the pariah, the outcast, the "real noob".

And this is what it feels in ESO, currently. Greatest disappointment in 20 years of Elder Scrolls history, I will repeat this once again.

Conclusion: Fix it. Hopefully soon. Hopefully it is still possible. It is getting old, tiresome and utterly uninspiring to play in an otherwise awesome game and environment knowing you severely limit your options when choosing an "archetypal", and why not, even "popular" (well maybe not in ESO) character type. And watching armies of "Harry Potters" just about everywhere "facerolling" everything and anything.

What the crap is with this message board and people bolding things left and right!!!!

On topic : Melee is fun to gank in PVP but kinda useless in any sort of large scale fight.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

badmojo wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Falmer wrote: »

I only play 1-50 on my characters, and I can say with all confidence that there is nothing wrong with melee builds.

They work just fine if played well. They just take a bit more know-how.

You cant say something 'with confidence' when you're hardly playing half of the game.

Go through vet content, try doing trials as a melee DPS, it aint happening.

One player being melee is going to stop a 12 person group from completing trials? That's rather hard to believe.

I've done the rest though, played through vet content(before the nerf), did a bunch of PVP starting at VR1, I had no problems with it.

Nobody is going to argue about magicka builds being stronger, but to say "it ain't happening" when talking about being able to play the game as melee, is pretty inaccurate.

yes one person playing melee is going to stop a 12 person group. You will be laughed at and kicked.

Yeah, exactly, the group will have an issue, not the game. I'd rather not be grouped with such closed minded individuals anyway.

No, the game will also have an issue. You would not be able to summon up the required dps. You would cause the group to fail.

badmojo

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Falmer wrote: »

I only play 1-50 on my characters, and I can say with all confidence that there is nothing wrong with melee builds.

They work just fine if played well. They just take a bit more know-how.

You cant say something 'with confidence' when you're hardly playing half of the game.

Go through vet content, try doing trials as a melee DPS, it aint happening.

One player being melee is going to stop a 12 person group from completing trials? That's rather hard to believe.

I've done the rest though, played through vet content(before the nerf), did a bunch of PVP starting at VR1, I had no problems with it.

Nobody is going to argue about magicka builds being stronger, but to say "it ain't happening" when talking about being able to play the game as melee, is pretty inaccurate.

yes one person playing melee is going to stop a 12 person group. You will be laughed at and kicked.

Yeah, exactly, the group will have an issue, not the game. I'd rather not be grouped with such closed minded individuals anyway.

No, the game will also have an issue. You would not be able to summon up the required dps. You would cause the group to fail.

Yeah, yeah, I doubt it. But, neither of us can actually prove it without a bunch of closed testing.

You know I didn't say a group of 12 melee players, right?