Sorcerer + Reflective Scale

MADshadowman

Something that really bothers me, is that a sorc becomes pretty useless when a DK uses reflective scale. I mean it's one thing that the spell bounces back to me, but it's another thing that i can't seem do have any chance to deal any serious amount of damage. OK, there is the daedric curse, which doesn't get reflected, but there is no real danger for the DK.

So, do you know any tactics a sorc can use to get a scale spamming DK in trouble?

Limitless

Use curse, overload's heavy attack, mage's wrath, resto staff heavy attack, or just bolt away.

I don't think they can reflect soul assault but you stand in the way of being interrupted if it's a 1v1

Baphomet

Start with curse and then use repeditive crushing shocks to proc your crystal shard so that the instance reflective scales drop you can insta-hit him with it.

That way curse and shards hit almost simultaneously.

Other options are lighting staff heavy attack (though the bolt will hit you back), restoration staff heavy attack, wait 3 seconds before you cast crystal shards, wear him down with curses and resto heavy attack/light attack, streak with follow-up, pulsar etc.

seanolan

You DO know Reflective Scale doesn't last long and costs a LOT of magicka, right? It's 6 seconds for about a 3rd of all the magicka a fully specced DK has. It's by NO means a perfect defense...it ONLY works against projectile spells, not AoEs, not non-projectile single targets, etc.

Excuse me, just looked it up again...on my DK, it's 4 seconds and 1/6 my total softcap magicka. My point remains.

tordr86b16_ESO

l2p op

MADshadowman

1/6 of the max magicka? that's nothing. that means he could at least use the skill 6 times, but with the magicka regen it would be 8 or more before he runs out of magicka.

the problem is i can't use these tactics, cause i don't have time to fight someone alone for more than 5 seconds. dawnbreaker is so busy that there is always someone helping to kill me. solo fight are almost impossible.

mages wrath and crushing shock don't get reflected? i'm not so sure about that. i think i had them also coming back to me.

Any weak spots in this skill? i need something really effective.

seanolan

If that DK is only spending magicka on Scales, he is a dead DK. Seriously, as a DK, VR9, I can tell you that you don't sit there spamming Scales unless you are fighting a REALLY stupid Sorc who only shoots projectiles at you. Seriously, you are playing poorly if this skill is all that is defeating you. Not opinion. Fact.

MADshadowman

What other choices do i have other than projectiles, when i'm far away?

seanolan

Ummm, the most OBVIOUS that comes to mind is a distant AoE? Perhaps Volcanic Rune? That's just my first thought...I am a DK, not a Sorc.

Soloeus

seanolan wrote: »

Ummm, the most OBVIOUS that comes to mind is a distant AoE? Perhaps Volcanic Rune? That's just my first thought...I am a DK, not a Sorc.

NOBODY walks into a volcanic rune.

Obscure

Spam Mages Fury until you proc your instant cast Shard. Bolt through them, Shard them, Mages Fury them, and collect your AP.


It might sound mean, but it's just a L2P issue. You're being out played by counter play and have to learn how to counter play the counter play. Pay attention to the animation tells (big dragon wings, red firey disk during the duration), and learn to time your projectile attacks for its 4 second duration. Learn what you can or can't use against it and learn when to use them (Curse, Fury, Bolt, etc.)

In the end the better player will win. If the DK knows how to use your skills better than you do, you have lost the fight before it started. I main a VR11 DK, and my only tough fights come from good Sorcerors. Learn to play and you'll find the way.

MADshadowman

as mentioned above, there are almost no 1:1 fights, i need fast and effective ways of killing DK's. if it's not done in 4-5 seconds another player will help and kill me.

volcanic runes are *** in my opinion especially if you're trying to kill someone effectively.

Obscure

MADshadowman wrote: »

as mentioned above, there are almost no 1:1 fights, i need fast and effective ways of killing DK's. if it's not done in 4-5 seconds another player will help and kill me.

volcanic runes are *** in my opinion especially if you're trying to kill someone effectively.

The only players your going to kill in 4-5 seconds are bad anyways. Against them I'd just suggest using damage. A good player of anything will last longer than 4-5 seconds.

There's no easy mode way to beat skilled players. It requires skill, and there's only one way to get it...you earn it. If he's just dummy spamming Reflective Scales, you don't need my advice to beat that idiot, you just need to be patient, he's basically killing himself for you. You want to go toe-to-toe with high skill DK's that know what's what? You need to master your class as well as they have mastered theirs or your just scorch mark waiting to happen.

Orchish

It lasts for 4 seconds. Cost a ton of magicka and is also bugged with the fact that it also charges us the cost of the spell/bow shot we reflect.

The skill it's self is fine no matter how many sorc's cry. What is not fine is magicka regen, you can get such insane regen right now that you're able to spam certain abilities giving the feeling they are overpowered. This goes for any ability.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Best way to beat this is with positioning/kiting. Unfortunately, since Bolt Escape was nerfed into the ground, it is very difficult to maintain good positioning against a DK using invasion>talons>flame lash which is about 99% of them. Invasion has a longer range than BE and using BE multiple times will drain all your magicka since the second cast costs about 80% more (not the 50% claimed in the tooltip).

DKs have abilities are hard counters to most sorc builds. Can't range them with shards or bow because they can reflect. Can't melee them because sorcs have no magicka based melee skills that can out-DPS flame lash/talons. On top of all that, sorcs lack a battlefield usable self heal, where DKs can press one button and get most of their health back.

LOL at all the DKs suggesting we use curse. Curse tickles the DK a bit, while they wait to get one invasion hit on you. Once that happens you will be stunlocked until unstable flame and lava whip are finished and 70% of your health is gone.

Every class should have at least one OP ability. DKs have 4. Sorcs have none after the nerf.

Orchish

^^ 99% are wearing a dress and wielding a staff spamming impulse before dropping their standard of might on your face.

As i said, scales are not OP. the magicka regen gained from light armour+sets is OP. When you have insane Magicka regen you can spam any ability no matter what class or ability it is.

Truth is, there are bad sorc players who have no idea how to counter a DK, and there are good sorc players who can rip a DK apart in 1v1.




Seriously ZOS, fix my damn reflective scales! When you get charged for the base cost + enemy reflected spells. You're resources both Magicka and Stamina deplete so fast that you end up dead like this. fun times though.

Vis

Seriously? Fury does no damage, shock is reflected, any half decent DK has scales up the entire fight, you truly cannot spam bolt, and both ultimates suggested are easily interrupted or require Melee range with block down.

The true way (at the moment):

Shield charge into the DK with surge up and then spam volatile familiar. It may be broken, but so is scales, so they should get fixed at the same time.

Vis

Orchish wrote: »

the magicka regen gained from light armour+sets is OP. When you have insane Magicka regen you can spam any ability no matter what class or ability it is.

False. I cannot spam bolt anymore.

Snit

MADshadowman wrote: »

So, do you know any tactics a sorc can use to get a scale spamming DK in trouble?

Some of your spells can still get through, such as Velocious Curse or a Resto Staff's heavy attack. But you are unlikely to have enough burst to kill a decent DK without using any of our primary nukes (Fragments, Crushing Shock, Mage's Fury, Destro Staff attacks -- all will come back at you, usually with more damage than you cast it with).

Just run. Sorcs are at least good at that. While you might win, the DK has to be moderately terrible to get that result. This is Rock against Scissors, so don't feed him AP.

hk11

DKs should be able to be kited and murdered at will. right?

Phantax

MADshadowman wrote: »

So, do you know any tactics a sorc can use to get a scale spamming DK in trouble?

Yeah.. quickly swap to your off-spec Greatsword then go bash his brains in with it....lol

Tuttebel

seanolan wrote: »

If that DK is only spending magicka on Scales, he is a dead DK. Seriously, as a DK, VR9, I can tell you that you don't sit there spamming Scales unless you are fighting a REALLY stupid Sorc who only shoots projectiles at you. Seriously, you are playing poorly if this skill is all that is defeating you. Not opinion. Fact.

Wow ... for some strange reason this looks like the argument sorcs used for bolt escape. And yet that got changed.

"If that sorc is only spending magicka on BE, he is a dead sorc ... and so on".

Maybe scales needs an incremental cost after the first cast and a halt in mana regen for a few seconds?

Soloeus

Apply bolt escape nerf right here. fixed.

LegendaryMage

I'm not sure if bolt nerf would do anything, they don't really need to re-cast scales within those 4 seconds.

Thechemicals

Most Dk mitigate the cost of reflect with light armor and reduce cost jewelry so no....as a sorc you are frakked against a Dk and so are most others unless you have a group. W/e dps you can get through is dragonblooded. Nothing is expensive with light armor+reduce cost jewelry+seducer+warlock

As a Templar i trick them into killing themselves with sunshield, power of the light, and eclipse before they have a chance to use Dragonblood. The really good ones always have a resto staff to recover magicka so i do the same. In the end its My sunshield+power of the light vs their Dragon standard+dragonblood. Fun fights, but no place for a sorcerer to be. Just go bolt escape into the shadows and watch us have fun.

kitsinni

.. at the risk of being flamed why do you need to be able to kill every class at range? You have access to every melee weapon in the game so there is one build and class you can't spam from range and kill solo .. not really the end of the world.

Snit

Scales is only a problem in specs that can spam it. DK specs that use it occasionally provide a challenge, but a fair one. DK specs that can spam it are virtually unkillable for casters.

The obvious solution is a nerf similar to the most recent one to hit Bolt Escape -- raise the cost for subsequent casts. A nerf to the Syrabane set may also be needed.

Snit

kitsinni wrote: »

.. at the risk of being flamed why do you need to be able to kill every class at range? You have access to every melee weapon in the game so there is one build and class you can't spam from range and kill solo .. not really the end of the world.

Closing to melee range with a DK usually results in a quick death for non-tanks. No class has better PBAoE's or an ultimate more suited to wrecking people dumb enough to stay close.

Witar

You know that as DK you can wear Syrabane and actually gain magica with scales on and reflecting spells, right?