Storm Atronach (Sorc Ultimate) 1.3 Nerf - Discussion & Ideas

richardjameshillb16_ESO

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

With the Nerf to Storm Atronach coming in 1.3 (The Atronach will lose its Taunt
ability)

Could I propose a different change ?

Rather than a blanket change, could perhaps one morph have lower DPS but a Taunt (for Solo play Sorcerer), and the other morph Higher DPS but no Taunt (for group play, and dungeons where holding threat is important to the Tank)

Just an idea that would perhaps keep everyone happy.

richardjameshillb16_ESO

Failing this idea gaining any traction, I would love to hear some other proposals

dcincali

Well, when a banner is dropped and an atro right after, i would much rather synergy the banner... Atro taunt useless in pvp.

Phinix1

I have been thinking on (and dreading) this change since I read about it in the PTS patch notes. To my thinking this will render the main Sorcerer PVE ultimate essentially useless for the purpose it formerly served, which was to tank and distract difficult mobs and packs while you pick them off.

Without the ability to taunt you will quickly out damage and draw aggro on anything they are attacking, and likely draw them out of range in the process. This changes the Storm Atronach from being an excellent PVE ability that could rightly be termed an "ultimate" into a mediocre damage ability with limited range and usefulness, and without picking up the vampire tree sorcerers really don't have anything that spectacular in the ultimate department to replace it with.

Some people like the Lightning ultimate but I have always found it meh, mainly because I have to manage and keep always-on effects like Mage Light on yet another bar. The Suppression Field has limited usefulness as well as it is very short lived compared to the Atronach, and viable more for PVP situations than any sort of meaningful PVE crowd control.

I love the Sorcerer class and don't feel they need to change anything. All of our other summons taunt; will they be preventing that as well? This decision seems hasty and poorly thought through to me.

A better solution would be to implement a COOLDOWN when switching targets. The Atronach would taunt just like he does now so long as he kept the same target. When he switches targets, either because you tell him to with the target keybind or something dies or goes out of range, have a 6-8 second period where he will only attack before he begins taunting that new target.

This prevents people from exploiting the pet target keybind to get the atronach tanking everything, without completely destroying the Atronach as an ultimate PVE control ability.

EDIT: The idea the OP suggest sounds viable to me as well.

kieso

crud and here i thought they were going to nerf the Storm Atronoch mobs.

MasterSpatula

I suppose it was inevitable they'd nerf the one class they really got right rather than fix the broken ones.

PBpsy

kieso wrote: »

crud and here i thought they were going to nerf the Storm Atronoch mobs.

They were already nerfed to a pretty balanced state Monday.

richardjameshillb16_ESO

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

I have been thinking on (and dreading) this change since I read about it in the PTS patch notes. To my thinking this will render the main Sorcerer PVE ultimate essentially useless for the purpose it formerly served, which was to tank and distract difficult mobs and packs while you pick them off.

Without the ability to taunt you will quickly out damage and draw aggro on anything they are attacking, and likely draw them out of range in the process. This changes the Storm Atronach from being an excellent PVE ability that could rightly be termed an "ultimate" into a mediocre damage ability with limited range and usefulness, and without picking up the vampire tree sorcerers really don't have anything that spectacular in the ultimate department to replace it with.

Some people like the Lightning ultimate but I have always found it meh, mainly because I have to manage and keep always-on effects like Mage Light on yet another bar. The Suppression Field has limited usefulness as well as it is very short lived compared to the Atronach, and viable more for PVP situations than any sort of meaningful PVE crowd control.

I love the Sorcerer class and don't feel they need to change anything. All of our other summons taunt; will they be preventing that as well? This decision seems hasty and poorly thought through to me.

A better solution would be to implement a COOLDOWN when switching targets. The Atronach would taunt just like he does now so long as he kept the same target. When he switches targets, either because you tell him to with the target keybind or something dies or goes out of range, have a 6-8 second period where he will only attack before he begins taunting that new target.

This prevents people from exploiting the pet target keybind to get the atronach tanking everything, without completely destroying the Atronach as an ultimate PVE control ability.

EDIT: The idea the OP suggest sounds viable to me as well.

I also think the idea of a cool down would be workable

Tabbycat

The Atronachs don't last very long to begin with. It would be far better to remove the ability to set what it attacks than to remove the ability to taunt. When I'm playing PvE, I use it to help with survivability. It seems pointless to even have it on your bar in PvE if it won't even hold aggro.

hamon

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

I have been thinking on (and dreading) this change since I read about it in the PTS patch notes. To my thinking this will render the main Sorcerer PVE ultimate essentially useless for the purpose it formerly served, which was to tank and distract difficult mobs and packs while you pick them off.

Without the ability to taunt you will quickly out damage and draw aggro on anything they are attacking, and likely draw them out of range in the process. This changes the Storm Atronach from being an excellent PVE ability that could rightly be termed an "ultimate" into a mediocre damage ability with limited range and usefulness, and without picking up the vampire tree sorcerers really don't have anything that spectacular in the ultimate department to replace it with.

Some people like the Lightning ultimate but I have always found it meh, mainly because I have to manage and keep always-on effects like Mage Light on yet another bar. The Suppression Field has limited usefulness as well as it is very short lived compared to the Atronach, and viable more for PVP situations than any sort of meaningful PVE crowd control.

I love the Sorcerer class and don't feel they need to change anything. All of our other summons taunt; will they be preventing that as well? This decision seems hasty and poorly thought through to me.

A better solution would be to implement a COOLDOWN when switching targets. The Atronach would taunt just like he does now so long as he kept the same target. When he switches targets, either because you tell him to with the target keybind or something dies or goes out of range, have a 6-8 second period where he will only attack before he begins taunting that new target.

This prevents people from exploiting the pet target keybind to get the atronach tanking everything, without completely destroying the Atronach as an ultimate PVE control ability.

EDIT: The idea the OP suggest sounds viable to me as well.

but but you were just telling us all everything is faceroll easy now after the nerf... why do you care? it's faceroll easy right?

Reevster

So fing stupid, why cant they leave things alone...ok so make it act like the Canfear pet and follow you around instead of having it rooted to one place.

Laura

hamon wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

I have been thinking on (and dreading) this change since I read about it in the PTS patch notes. To my thinking this will render the main Sorcerer PVE ultimate essentially useless for the purpose it formerly served, which was to tank and distract difficult mobs and packs while you pick them off.

Without the ability to taunt you will quickly out damage and draw aggro on anything they are attacking, and likely draw them out of range in the process. This changes the Storm Atronach from being an excellent PVE ability that could rightly be termed an "ultimate" into a mediocre damage ability with limited range and usefulness, and without picking up the vampire tree sorcerers really don't have anything that spectacular in the ultimate department to replace it with.

Some people like the Lightning ultimate but I have always found it meh, mainly because I have to manage and keep always-on effects like Mage Light on yet another bar. The Suppression Field has limited usefulness as well as it is very short lived compared to the Atronach, and viable more for PVP situations than any sort of meaningful PVE crowd control.

I love the Sorcerer class and don't feel they need to change anything. All of our other summons taunt; will they be preventing that as well? This decision seems hasty and poorly thought through to me.

A better solution would be to implement a COOLDOWN when switching targets. The Atronach would taunt just like he does now so long as he kept the same target. When he switches targets, either because you tell him to with the target keybind or something dies or goes out of range, have a 6-8 second period where he will only attack before he begins taunting that new target.

This prevents people from exploiting the pet target keybind to get the atronach tanking everything, without completely destroying the Atronach as an ultimate PVE control ability.

EDIT: The idea the OP suggest sounds viable to me as well.

but but you were just telling us all everything is faceroll easy now after the nerf... why do you care? it's faceroll easy right?

so catty and snide. So hamon.

The atronach has other uses you know, It is often used to take some heat off tanks or used in a pinch if a tank dies. There are multiple reasons to use it and it is a silly nerf. It will still be our best DPS ult so it really isn't a big deal but it will take some utility away.

He is wrong about one point though, there are several occasions in pve where negate magic is not only good it is almost necessary or makes encounters significantly easier.

All in all it is a butchering to fix a problem instead of actually fixing the problem. Classic ZoS, Atronachs are causing taunt issues? MAKE IT NOT TAUNT! instead of making it not taunt in certain areas or off tanks or giving you a toggle. Thats the issue I have with it. its lazy.

Good news is I'll be able to use it on bosses that I was previously unable to and will get even higher DPS in trials

Saint_JiubB14_ESO

PBpsy wrote: »

kieso wrote: »

crud and here i thought they were going to nerf the Storm Atronoch mobs.

They were already nerfed to a pretty balanced state Monday.

Hilariously enough I ran into a Dark Fissure and prayed the second wave wasn't going to be a SA. And it was, and I only beat it because of the Sorc SA ult. So yeah, not a fan of losing a key component of one of our best (maybe only) PvE ult.

richardjameshillb16_ESO

Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

kieso wrote: »

crud and here i thought they were going to nerf the Storm Atronoch mobs.

They were already nerfed to a pretty balanced state Monday.

Hilariously enough I ran into a Dark Fissure and prayed the second wave wasn't going to be a SA. And it was, and I only beat it because of the Sorc SA ult. So yeah, not a fan of losing a key component of one of our best (maybe only) PvE ult.

Indeed its a great "oh [snip]" button,

I have Experimenting using Thundering presence, and have began to have the same success in Soloing Dolmens and world bosses in V9 area, its not as good as using the Atronach though,

Constantly nerfing skills (instead of buffing other classes) gets old quick

In 1.3 we have,
- Atronach nerf (not taunt, rendering the ultimate useless)
- Set Item nerf (willows path and twilights embrace, now have no spell critical)
- Warlock set, Magicka flood now need 5 pieces not 3
- Spell damage cap lowered from 150 approx. to 130 approx.

It's a bit much I think

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

hamon

Laura wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

I have been thinking on (and dreading) this change since I read about it in the PTS patch notes. To my thinking this will render the main Sorcerer PVE ultimate essentially useless for the purpose it formerly served, which was to tank and distract difficult mobs and packs while you pick them off.

Without the ability to taunt you will quickly out damage and draw aggro on anything they are attacking, and likely draw them out of range in the process. This changes the Storm Atronach from being an excellent PVE ability that could rightly be termed an "ultimate" into a mediocre damage ability with limited range and usefulness, and without picking up the vampire tree sorcerers really don't have anything that spectacular in the ultimate department to replace it with.

Some people like the Lightning ultimate but I have always found it meh, mainly because I have to manage and keep always-on effects like Mage Light on yet another bar. The Suppression Field has limited usefulness as well as it is very short lived compared to the Atronach, and viable more for PVP situations than any sort of meaningful PVE crowd control.

I love the Sorcerer class and don't feel they need to change anything. All of our other summons taunt; will they be preventing that as well? This decision seems hasty and poorly thought through to me.

A better solution would be to implement a COOLDOWN when switching targets. The Atronach would taunt just like he does now so long as he kept the same target. When he switches targets, either because you tell him to with the target keybind or something dies or goes out of range, have a 6-8 second period where he will only attack before he begins taunting that new target.

This prevents people from exploiting the pet target keybind to get the atronach tanking everything, without completely destroying the Atronach as an ultimate PVE control ability.

EDIT: The idea the OP suggest sounds viable to me as well.

but but you were just telling us all everything is faceroll easy now after the nerf... why do you care? it's faceroll easy right?

so catty and snide. So hamon.

perhaps but that doesnt make my statement false.. you guys were puffing out your sorcerer chests and saying "everything is faceroll easy now. and they decide a wee nerf to your class and guess what .....

you all start whinging.

But but elite players l2 adapt and all that no?

the irony with you guys is amusing to me. you lack even a slight bit of empathy for those who didnt roll ez-mode sorcs and yet come asking for everyone to feel sorry when you sorcs get a slight nerf..

Lunerdog

Shame to nerf the big guy, I always used him as a lifesaver last resort type thing ie when a world boss etc proved to be just a bit more than I could handle.

Bringing in the Atronach gave you a breather and a chance to build your health/magicka back up a bit.

Is this the start of nerfing Sorcs instead of buffing the other classes ?

camelknightb16_ESO

Only a few days ago I met a worldboss in Glenumbra that one hit my Storm Atronarch after which it crumbled into submission.
Without that ultimate, I, as a light armor wearing scorcerer, will never be able to kill a worldboss solo if ZoS takes the taunt away as well.

For the time being, I've got my pet and my ultimate to keep the boss off of my delicate body. With one or both of them being one-shotted, or unable to taunt, I will not survive 2 seconds.

This suggested change is, in my humble opinion, a bad thing. Scorcerers, being a light armor class at it's core (considering light armor bonuses are intended for Scorcs), will die by the dozens.

Sure, I could switch to medium or heavy armor. But I'd be missing the bonus the light armor provides. I'd also be killing the little bit of RP I try to play.

eliisra

This nerf is a bit puzzling. For once, the Daedric Summoning is already a pretty mediocre skill line. If anything related to sorcerers needs fixing and buffing, it's their pet tree. But now the only skill in there worth slotting will loose it's power.

I dont even understand why the taunt has to go. It's not like it works on players in PvP lol. It's not going to off-tank any trials or endgame related either.

This taunt is for soloing and somewhat useful for small groups, helping to take pressure of the tank for a few seconds, by taunting adds or trash. It's hardly overtuned.

Maybe some fancy player in some fancy trial guild cried about less potential dps when going for the leaderboard lol? Because in terms of raw dps, it's actually a buff (if you remove the taunt).

Erock25

eliisra wrote: »

This nerf is a bit puzzling. For once, the Daedric Summoning is already a pretty mediocre skill line. If anything related to sorcerers needs fixing and buffing, it's their pet tree. But now the only skill in there worth slotting will loose it's power.

I dont even understand why the taunt has to go. It's not like it works on players in PvP lol. It's not going to off-tank any trials or endgame related either.

This taunt is for soloing and somewhat useful for small groups, helping to take pressure of the tank for a few seconds, by taunting adds or trash. It's hardly overtuned.

Maybe some fancy player in some fancy trial guild cried about less potential dps when going for the leaderboard lol? Because in terms of raw dps, it's actually a buff (if you remove the taunt).

I think trial guilds complained because you can only taunt something so many times in a set amount of time before the taunts fail, so when Sorc were dropping their atronachs one after another, it pretty much made the boss immune to taunts.

chivalry64b16_ESO

Ppl are already leaving this game in droves, most zones are dead this nerf will just point more pl to the EXIT door.............company's need too learn to buff to balance not nerf.

Armann

Well now with the complaints against the Volatile familiar in PvP it's only a matter of time before the Daedric summoning tree is finally stripped of it's last useful pet. Kinda funny isn't it, a skill line regarded as useless and impotent and they gut it completly.

Singular

Wow, that was an ability I used a lot in PVE. What's with the hate-on for sorcs?

KariTR

I didn't even know it had a taunt

I use it for groups of mobs, so doubt the taunt removal will make any difference to my particular usage.

ETA: Though if the reasons for removing this 'taunt' as cited in the thread are correct, it's another example of a game company 'solving' an issue that could have easily been solved by the players themselves. "Don't bring Atro."

Soloeus

richardjameshillb16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

With the Nerf to Storm Atronach coming in 1.3 (The Atronach will lose its Taunt
ability)

Could I propose a different change ?

Rather than a blanket change, could perhaps one morph have lower DPS but a Taunt (for Solo play Sorcerer), and the other morph Higher DPS but no Taunt (for group play, and dungeons where holding threat is important to the Tank)

Just an idea that would perhaps keep everyone happy.

Good idea.


Edit:

At this rate I wonder if anyone will be playing in 2 years.

1. Nerf all characters so they aren't very good.
2. Without fixing broken skills/passives.
3. Then nerf end-game content because nobody can play it...
4. Then nerf the characters again because they can.
5. Without fixing broken skills/passives.

Snit

Evidently, the 5% of players focused on trials find the Atronach taunt slightly annoying.

Therefore, it must go.

richardjameshillb16_ESO

I wonder if the PTS is to let us test a patch that has already been finalized (1.3) Rather than to gather feedback and implement changes based on the user base

I still think the suggestion in my opening post has merit.

" Rather than a blanket change, could perhaps one morph have lower DPS but a Taunt (for Solo play Sorcerer), and the other morph Higher DPS but no Taunt (for group play, and dungeons where holding threat is important to the Tank)"

This would keep both sets of players happy (PVE and Trials groups)

If the game is going to be balanced only on what the PvP players or Trials groups want, that would appear to alienate rather a large portion of the user base

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Its a shame we had no official feedback,

The_Sadist

I'm rather frustrated over this change, the Storm Atronach was one of my most used ultimates and taking away his taunt will probably mean I'm going to die a whole lot more.

I honestly don't understand why they're removing it, it doesn't seem overpowered at all. If trial groups are complaining about some sort of developed taunt immune bosses, perhaps they should kindly ask the Sorcerers in the group to use a different ultimate.. or you know, ZeniMax can fix the bosses and not nerf an innocent summon.

So with the planned removal of the taunt, the Atronach is also going to receive a massive damage boost, right ? No? Figures.

Laura

hamon wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

I have been thinking on (and dreading) this change since I read about it in the PTS patch notes. To my thinking this will render the main Sorcerer PVE ultimate essentially useless for the purpose it formerly served, which was to tank and distract difficult mobs and packs while you pick them off.

Without the ability to taunt you will quickly out damage and draw aggro on anything they are attacking, and likely draw them out of range in the process. This changes the Storm Atronach from being an excellent PVE ability that could rightly be termed an "ultimate" into a mediocre damage ability with limited range and usefulness, and without picking up the vampire tree sorcerers really don't have anything that spectacular in the ultimate department to replace it with.

Some people like the Lightning ultimate but I have always found it meh, mainly because I have to manage and keep always-on effects like Mage Light on yet another bar. The Suppression Field has limited usefulness as well as it is very short lived compared to the Atronach, and viable more for PVP situations than any sort of meaningful PVE crowd control.

I love the Sorcerer class and don't feel they need to change anything. All of our other summons taunt; will they be preventing that as well? This decision seems hasty and poorly thought through to me.

A better solution would be to implement a COOLDOWN when switching targets. The Atronach would taunt just like he does now so long as he kept the same target. When he switches targets, either because you tell him to with the target keybind or something dies or goes out of range, have a 6-8 second period where he will only attack before he begins taunting that new target.

This prevents people from exploiting the pet target keybind to get the atronach tanking everything, without completely destroying the Atronach as an ultimate PVE control ability.

EDIT: The idea the OP suggest sounds viable to me as well.

but but you were just telling us all everything is faceroll easy now after the nerf... why do you care? it's faceroll easy right?

so catty and snide. So hamon.

perhaps but that doesnt make my statement false.. you guys were puffing out your sorcerer chests and saying "everything is faceroll easy now. and they decide a wee nerf to your class and guess what .....

you all start whinging.

But but elite players l2 adapt and all that no?

the irony with you guys is amusing to me. you lack even a slight bit of empathy for those who didnt roll ez-mode sorcs and yet come asking for everyone to feel sorry when you sorcs get a slight nerf..

[snip]

If he is coming and complaining that other sorcs won't be able to level the way he did how would he not be showing empathy?

You know as well as I do that I was asking that other classes get buffed to the point of sorcs and DKs instead of just nerfing all the content to make them feel like they were strong. - selfish right? Do you just type whatever random thoughts come to mind and just throw little stereotypes in with a thesaurus to make yourself sound like you know what you are talking about?

Make no mistake this change was made FOR the elite. It was made for those of us that couldn't use them in trials because of the taunt mechanic bugging out encounters. It is being changed FOR US and we are still coming and saying it will hurt the growing sorcs. Not having the taunt is going to have literally 0% effect on my game play (except for a positive).

Its like you literally have NO idea what you are talking about and you are just preying on the ignorance of others who haven't gotten to end game to rack up likes.

Everything you said is a complete contradiction of its self. (a usual hamon post)

The truth is this is a BUFF that hurts leveling sorcs. It is a great help for me, and frankly I use negate magic and bolt escape in most solo situations. Every sorc in my guild and even the casual raiding sorcs are jumping for joy over this (including myself) the issue is its a lazy fix, my usual beef.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Daethz

Are there really so many sorcs out there that massive posts are created every time they get a small nerf?

Where was the DK team when we got hit by the nerfhammer a dozen times? bleh.. I suggest a nerf to magicka in all forms btw.

Maverick827

Snit wrote: »

Evidently, the 5% of players focused on trials find the Atronach taunt slightly annoying.

Therefore, it must go.

When you only take feedback from "hardcore" guilds, what else do you expect?

Snit

Maverick827 wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Evidently, the 5% of players focused on trials find the Atronach taunt slightly annoying.

Therefore, it must go.

When you only take feedback from "hardcore" guilds, what else do you expect?

I suspect that's part of it.

I'm all for the CS folks discussing the game with the endgame hardcore guilds -- they know the mechanics better than casuals. But it bothers me when I see changes catering to those hardcore folks at the expense of most other folks.