Console player transfer specifics?(Official Response Please)

NewBlacksmurf

Now that June 30th has passed I hoped that the road ahead would address...The Road Ahead for both PC and console.

-Please officially reply and address the specifics of the character transfer capabilities/limitations?
-If there is not any specifics please comment officially stating that as of today

1. Is the feature a Copy, a transfer of character(s) or a copy, transfer of an account ?
-Will the characters remain on the PC account or will they be gone to which ever console?


2. Is this a one time function for a choice of one console or once to each console(In cases where someone may own two consoles and not be sure where their friends will end up)?


-Are the bank items also transferred for the entire account or will the bank not transfer at all?
-What about Guild Bank account items for a character who is the Guild Master?


3. Does the $20 purchase of the console game give us the exact PC game we purchased or are we going to have to pay extra for the explorers pack and imperial edition?

-If a customer does not choose to use the $20 offer because they bought a collectors editions of the console game are they not permitted to transfer their account/characters over?

Edited for clarity and to remove duplicate questions

NewBlacksmurf

The reason for these questions is due to a lack of new information while, there are weekly updates about this game on the PC, the new information is very lacking when it comes to understanding the options around the console release and what happens next.


I can see a lot of damage if characters are "moved" vs copied when it comes to Guild Leaders and officers.

Also, what happens when a customer decides, Hey I think this was a bad move, I want to go back to PC. Is the character forever gone?

Transfer does suggest a one way move but just to clarify...

*OR does this really mean, create a character on the console cosmetically and transfer the data, skills, items, levels, achievements, bank.

Fleymark

My question....Will those of us starting fresh on console, as I plan to, be getting a clean fresh server day 1 or will we be on the same megaserver as transfers?

I'm hoping for a choice where one can choose to play on a fresh server or a "veteran" server where the xfers go.

Bear in mind, this is an important detail because there is competition in PvP, including an emperor title that brings abilities with it. There are economic and crafting considerations as well.

boogie95

like D3 this game should stay away from other platforms and just worrie about making it work on pc for starters

NewBlacksmurf

Fleymark wrote: »

My question....Will those of us starting fresh on console, as I plan to, be getting a clean fresh server day 1 or will we be on the same megaserver as transfers?

I'm hoping for a choice where one can choose to play on a fresh server or a "veteran" server where the xfers go.

Bear in mind, this is an important detail because there is competition in PvP, including an emperor title that brings abilities with it. There are economic and crafting considerations as well.

Good question, I assumed we all would be on one server.

@boogie95

"like D3 this game should stay away from other platforms and just worrie about making it work on pc for starters "
-Yes they should make it work on PC, but perhaps the opportunity is best on the console. Specifically looking at Diablo 3, I own both versions and the console is far better than PC.

Why do you feel these games Diablo 3 and TESO would not work on consoles?
Do you not see the opportunity for TESO to work better on a console, just like Diablo 3 has?

ItsRejectz

Fleymark wrote: »

My question....Will those of us starting fresh on console, as I plan to, be getting a clean fresh server day 1 or will we be on the same megaserver as transfers?

I'm hoping for a choice where one can choose to play on a fresh server or a "veteran" server where the xfers go.

Bear in mind, this is an important detail because there is competition in PvP, including an emperor title that brings abilities with it. There are economic and crafting considerations as well.

In PvP if you dont want to be in with Veteran "Transferred" players, you join the campaign for under vet level characters only. You are not forced to be put in with them, it's your choice

Fleymark

Oh yeah, I've known since the first time I logged in that this game will likely play better on a console, for me at least. I play both console and PC games.

A pretty good argument could be made that the game was intended for consoles and we just got our port first. The controls pretty clearly were intended for 2 sticks, 2 triggers, etc.

nawlinzbilly

Very good questions, I hope you get an official response.

Fleymark

ItsRejectz wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

My question....Will those of us starting fresh on console, as I plan to, be getting a clean fresh server day 1 or will we be on the same megaserver as transfers?

I'm hoping for a choice where one can choose to play on a fresh server or a "veteran" server where the xfers go.

Bear in mind, this is an important detail because there is competition in PvP, including an emperor title that brings abilities with it. There are economic and crafting considerations as well.

In PvP if you dont want to be in with Veteran "Transferred" players, you join the campaign for under vet level characters only. You are not forced to be put in with them, it's your choice

Fair enough.

But what about having to compete against sub-50 toons that transferred with yellow gear?

Or compete with crafters that transferred with all traits researched?

Or sell certain items that are rare to you as a new player but have to compete with people who transferred with an inventory full of them?

Or people who only play consoles but want to do server firsts or just want to be in a fresh environment on day 1?

Or any of another number of things I haven't thought of?

This transfer situation brings infinite balance complications with it and, I suspect, was driven by marketing people without being properly thought through at the time.

We all know that balance isn't exactly zenimax's strong suit and all of these are legitimate concerns. Having a separate clean server choice from where transfers wind up is the only way to fix it, that I can think of.

NewBlacksmurf

I'm 100% not doing VR stuff anymore. Not because of any changes but because VR needs to be a way of leveling PvP.

PvE needs to stop at level 50 and just be gear based. If they want to boost stats and skills with gear, fine but the VR concept of, hey now you get to play through the game again....
Naah I'm NOT doing that.

freespirit

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I'm 100% not doing VR stuff anymore. Not because of any changes but because VR needs to be a way of leveling PvP.

PvE needs to stop at level 50 and just be gear based. If they want to boost stats and skills with gear, fine but the VR concept of, hey now you get to play through the game again....
Naah I'm NOT doing that.

I don't PVP at all......

So by your way of thinking once I reach level 50 I'm finished?

Come on........ There are many ways to skin a cat!!

What suits you may not suit some one else......

To each their own, I do not presume to tell you how to play neither should you tell me.....

'PvE needs to stop at level 50 and just be gear based.'

This comment is not very inclusive is it ?

NewBlacksmurf

freespirit wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I'm 100% not doing VR stuff anymore. Not because of any changes but because VR needs to be a way of leveling PvP.

PvE needs to stop at level 50 and just be gear based. If they want to boost stats and skills with gear, fine but the VR concept of, hey now you get to play through the game again....
Naah I'm NOT doing that.

I don't PVP at all......

So by your way of thinking once I reach level 50 I'm finished?

Come on........ There are many ways to skin a cat!!

What suits you may not suit some one else......

To each their own, I do not presume to tell you how to play neither should you tell me.....

'PvE needs to stop at level 50 and just be gear based.'

This comment is not very inclusive is it ?

My post...That was not well written.
I'm trying to suggest that PvE should continue but not move from level 50 to VR levels. I do want content, dungeons, etc to continue playing as I really like PvE but I don't like the VR insertion of leveling. I would much rather level from 50 - 64 or whatever max level they insert.

I personally don't like playing in the other realms because it confuses the explorers edition and concept that we are at war with another realm but now I'm going to help them with their problems and no one will fight me. Nor will the realm I just assisted for 50 levels have any issues with such. I don't think it should be taken away from others who do want to experience the game this way.
My mind has applied that the server is a role playing server, (which its not) and that the game-play for PvE should be limited to the realm I chose.

Again, not taking away from anyone who wants to play in another realm but in those cases, I feel like Cyrodil should pick up for PvE past level 50 and there would be a PvP toggle for those of us who do not want to play PvP at all. Or, those who may want to try it from time to time but not be in PvP just because they crossed a wall. (That definitely conflicts with my point of view, but keeping it open for others)

VR levels - I would like the VR designation to identify PvP accomplishment.

make sense or did i make it worse?

freespirit

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I'm 100% not doing VR stuff anymore. Not because of any changes but because VR needs to be a way of leveling PvP.

PvE needs to stop at level 50 and just be gear based. If they want to boost stats and skills with gear, fine but the VR concept of, hey now you get to play through the game again....
Naah I'm NOT doing that.

I don't PVP at all......

So by your way of thinking once I reach level 50 I'm finished?

Come on........ There are many ways to skin a cat!!

What suits you may not suit some one else......

To each their own, I do not presume to tell you how to play neither should you tell me.....

'PvE needs to stop at level 50 and just be gear based.'

This comment is not very inclusive is it ?

That was not well written.
I'm trying to suggest that PvE should continue but not move from level 50 to VR levels. I do want content, dungeons, etc to continue playing as I really like PvE but I don't like the VR insertion of leveling. I would much rather level from 50 - 64 or whatever max level they insert.

I personally don't like playing in the other realms because it confuses the explorers edition and concept that we are at war with another realm but now I'm going to help them with their problems and no one will fight me. Nor will the realm I just assisted for 50 levels have any issues with such.

VR levels - I would like the BR designation to identify PvP accomplishment.

make sense or did i make it worse?

No that was very nicely explained.......

and I do intend to try PVP at some point......

probably when I can take on some of the more challenging PVE content.....

Currently VR8 and really enjoying the other Alliances.........

As I said 'to each their own'

NewBlacksmurf

Caught the Twitch presentation. None of my Q'a made it on there. Even typed a few in the chat. :-(

ers101284b14_ESO

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Caught the Twitch presentation. None of my Q'a made it on there. Even typed a few in the chat. :-(

Dang there was a twitch stream?!

Kulthax

@NewBlacksmurf‌ You may want to go back and edit your post to include Gina Bruno and Jessica Folsom. So that they will actually see this.

Kulthax

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Caught the Twitch presentation. None of my Q'a made it on there. Even typed a few in the chat. :-(

Is there a transcript available? I would love to see what questions were asked and answered.

Curragraigue

Fleymark wrote: »

ItsRejectz wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

My question....Will those of us starting fresh on console, as I plan to, be getting a clean fresh server day 1 or will we be on the same megaserver as transfers?

I'm hoping for a choice where one can choose to play on a fresh server or a "veteran" server where the xfers go.

Bear in mind, this is an important detail because there is competition in PvP, including an emperor title that brings abilities with it. There are economic and crafting considerations as well.

In PvP if you dont want to be in with Veteran "Transferred" players, you join the campaign for under vet level characters only. You are not forced to be put in with them, it's your choice

Fair enough.

But what about having to compete against sub-50 toons that transferred with yellow gear?

Or compete with crafters that transferred with all traits researched?

Or sell certain items that are rare to you as a new player but have to compete with people who transferred with an inventory full of them?

Or people who only play consoles but want to do server firsts or just want to be in a fresh environment on day 1?

Or any of another number of things I haven't thought of?

This transfer situation brings infinite balance complications with it and, I suspect, was driven by marketing people without being properly thought through at the time.

We all know that balance isn't exactly zenimax's strong suit and all of these are legitimate concerns. Having a separate clean server choice from where transfers wind up is the only way to fix it, that I can think of.

Are you going to move players that level quickly or have efficient researching to another server as well? Players will eventually catch up to any person that transfers over from PC.

Based on the PC if someone wants to spend all their time in the game and leveling they can hit VR 12 within a week or two of release. So would you move those people over to the PC port players or would they get to stay with people that have a 'fresh start'.

I'm enjoying leveling my character on PC but I don't have a lot of time I can throw at leveling so I don't want to start over again and I want to play with friends that start with PS4 so I hope they stick to just putting us all together.

I really don't see a problem with people transferring over and playing with new players. Yes the people transferring over will initially have an advantage but anyone who levels up will catch up to them in time.

It is no different than the current population on the PC servers where some people have more things than others. You can't segregate people on servers into haves and have nots. The phasing is already a big enough barrier to grouping that ZOS shouldn't be adding any more.

NewBlacksmurf

http://www.twitch.tv/questgamingnetwork/b/546369775

Not sure about a transcript but who are Gina, Bruno and Jessica?

Curragraigue

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

http://www.twitch.tv/questgamingnetwork/b/546369775

Not sure about a transcript but who are Gina, Bruno and Jessica?

Gina Bruno and Jessica Folsom are two ZOS admins on this forum

Edit: By request

@ZOS_GinaBruno and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

NewBlacksmurf

Did u want to tag them. Ill try @zos_jessicaFolsom

Fleymark

Curragraigue wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

ItsRejectz wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

My question....Will those of us starting fresh on console, as I plan to, be getting a clean fresh server day 1 or will we be on the same megaserver as transfers?

I'm hoping for a choice where one can choose to play on a fresh server or a "veteran" server where the xfers go.

Bear in mind, this is an important detail because there is competition in PvP, including an emperor title that brings abilities with it. There are economic and crafting considerations as well.

In PvP if you dont want to be in with Veteran "Transferred" players, you join the campaign for under vet level characters only. You are not forced to be put in with them, it's your choice

Fair enough.

But what about having to compete against sub-50 toons that transferred with yellow gear?

Or compete with crafters that transferred with all traits researched?

Or sell certain items that are rare to you as a new player but have to compete with people who transferred with an inventory full of them?

Or people who only play consoles but want to do server firsts or just want to be in a fresh environment on day 1?

Or any of another number of things I haven't thought of?

This transfer situation brings infinite balance complications with it and, I suspect, was driven by marketing people without being properly thought through at the time.

We all know that balance isn't exactly zenimax's strong suit and all of these are legitimate concerns. Having a separate clean server choice from where transfers wind up is the only way to fix it, that I can think of.

Are you going to move players that level quickly or have efficient researching to another server as well? Players will eventually catch up to any person that transfers over from PC.

Based on the PC if someone wants to spend all their time in the game and leveling they can hit VR 12 within a week or two of release. So would you move those people over to the PC port players or would they get to stay with people that have a 'fresh start'.

I'm enjoying leveling my character on PC but I don't have a lot of time I can throw at leveling so I don't want to start over again and I want to play with friends that start with PS4 so I hope they stick to just putting us all together.

I really don't see a problem with people transferring over and playing with new players. Yes the people transferring over will initially have an advantage but anyone who levels up will catch up to them in time.

It is no different than the current population on the PC servers where some people have more things than others. You can't segregate people on servers into haves and have nots. The phasing is already a big enough barrier to grouping that ZOS shouldn't be adding any more.

First, I think you misread what I'm saying. Not to completely segregate xfers from new players that want to play with them. That would be silly when the whole point of the transfers, as they stated in the announcement, was for PC players to have the option to play with their friends on console or vice versa. That's totally fine.

What I am saying is that when you start on console you should get a choice of playing on a server with the transfers or a server that is clean and has no transfers. Personally, I would love to be able to do both (like we can play both EU and NA servers here as well as PTS) but that's not really important to this.

As far as the rest of your post, nothing personal, but if you don't understand how having players with a half a year or more head start forced on new players on a day 1 fresh server impacts the play environment, I'm not really sure what to say. Everyone having an equal opportunity to start fresh at the same time is paramount to the entire server dynamic, play environment, economy...EVERYTHING in am MMO. Pretending it doesn't reveals a lack of experience with MMOs and a very "single player game" mindset, honestly.

And there is absolutely no comparison to someone who puts in more playtime and earns a certain level quickly on a server with someone who did it elsewhere and transfered to it. And this is also why games that allow cross server transfers often don't allow transfers to a fresh server until it's been live for a year or limit transfers to and from special ruleset servers. That's just a ridiculous comparison, frankly.

Just having a level 50 horse, be it specced in speed or bag space gives anyone a leg up over fresh start players in both PvE and PvP.

Then there is the matter of crafting and research to consider. You are looking at months minimum to get 8 traits in a craft. There is no reason new crafters on release should have to compete from the moment go with people who did it here and transfers over, along with supplies of traits gems and upgrade mats.

And these are just the things I can think of offhand. This affects practically every area of the game.

In short, I'm simply saying that those who want to play with transfers should be able to, but those who don't should have that choice also.

NewBlacksmurf

@Fleymark‌
You're right on the economy and character choices.

While the console transfer seemed like an offer it now seems like an impossible hurdle or a lack of thoughtful consideration.

In the end THE Diablo 3 console approach that ROS takes for ps4/xbox one is what needs to apply here BUT with an economy focus.

I really hope the replies from @ZOS_ are that this feature is a simple account copy that can be done to both console's rather than a transfer.

I don't think they'll get away with opening up char copy after 30 days of the console launch.

The more I think on this, there is not a positive resolution.

Kulthax

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

http://www.twitch.tv/questgamingnetwork/b/546369775

Not sure about a transcript but who are Gina, Bruno and Jessica?

They are community managers who are our go betweens if you will. Flagging them will hopefully get them to read this thread and post something new if not answer some of the questions presented here.

Curragraigue

Fleymark wrote: »

First, I think you misread what I'm saying. Not to completely segregate xfers from new players that want to play with them. That would be silly when the whole point of the transfers, as they stated in the announcement, was for PC players to have the option to play with their friends on console or vice versa. That's totally fine.

What I am saying is that when you start on console you should get a choice of playing on a server with the transfers or a server that is clean and has no transfers. Personally, I would love to be able to do both (like we can play both EU and NA servers here as well as PTS) but that's not really important to this.

As far as the rest of your post, nothing personal, but if you don't understand how having players with a half a year or more head start forced on new players on a day 1 fresh server impacts the play environment, I'm not really sure what to say. Everyone having an equal opportunity to start fresh at the same time is paramount to the entire server dynamic, play environment, economy...EVERYTHING in am MMO. Pretending it doesn't reveals a lack of experience with MMOs and a very "single player game" mindset, honestly.

And there is absolutely no comparison to someone who puts in more playtime and earns a certain level quickly on a server with someone who did it elsewhere and transfered to it. And this is also why games that allow cross server transfers often don't allow transfers to a fresh server until it's been live for a year or limit transfers to and from special ruleset servers. That's just a ridiculous comparison, frankly.

Then there is the matter of crafting and research to consider. You are looking at months minimum to get 8 traits in a craft. There is no reason new crafters on release should have to compete from the moment go with people who did it here and transfers over, along with supplies of traits gems and upgrade mats.

In short, I'm simply saying that those who want to play with transfers should be able to, but those who don't should have that choice also.

I didn't misread your post the point I'm making is that there should be no separation everyone should be together on the same server. What I'm suggesting results in 6 servers (1 NA and 1 EU for PC, PS4 and XBox One) what you are suggesting results in 10 servers. I don't see the population base being big enough for that.

I'm also not pretending transferring players will not have an affect. The point I'm making is that the effect is minimal in the long term and is only a short term effect.

If there was forced PvP then there would be a problem but there is not. I didn't repeat what someone else had already said to you because I thought it was clear enough in their post. People can choose which PvP server they join low level players can compete with each other they don't have to compete with VR players. Players are otherwise not competing with each other. There is no leader board for hitting VR 12 first or defeating Molag Bal first or hitting a million gold first. Who cares if it takes one person a week to hit VR 12 and another person a few months, end result they both got there.

As I said, players that start 'fresh' will catch up. Will they initially start behind players that transfer? Yes. Will it make a difference in a few months time? No. The competitive players will have caught up.

I think we just fundamentally disagree regarding what type of game we are playing. You seem to consider this to be a competitive PvP only game where everything is a competition and with respect it is not. There are plenty of other things to do in the game outside of PvP.

With no real competition between players other than through competition that players choose themselves to engage in be that pure PvP, the economy or crafting having players transfer is not going to bring the sky down. Anything that a transferring player can get at the start of the game is something that a fresh starting player can get with time.

As you would know the one thing a good MMO has is plenty of time on its hands.

Fleymark

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@Fleymark‌
You're right on the economy and character choices.

While the console transfer seemed like an offer it now seems like an impossible hurdle or a lack of thoughtful consideration.

In the end THE Diablo 3 console approach that ROS takes for ps4/xbox one is what needs to apply here BUT with an economy focus.

I really hope the replies from @ZOS_ are that this feature is a simple account copy that can be done to both console's rather than a transfer.

I don't think they'll get away with opening up char copy after 30 days of the console launch.

The more I think on this, there is not a positive resolution.

They could delay the xfers for a period of time, like you say, but that kind defeats the point of having them at all when the stated reason for having them was so PC players could play with their friends. Although I suspect it had more to do with selling game boxes and subs in May and June, but that's just me being cynical. And the lower the delay the less effective it is. For it to really work, given the time trait research takes and the time it takes most people to level. It would need to be 3-6 months minimum. I can hear the screaming now. People will go nuts if there is any delay so I really don't see that as a solution.

The only way to really fix the whole problem is to release 2 servers on day 1 when the console versions go live...One where the transfers go and one totally clean. And let the console players choose which they want to play on. The only way I can think of, at least.

But for anyone to pretend that this isn't a major issue they created with this transfer situation is just crazy.

And frankly, people who pre-order or buy a new game on day 1 deserve a fresh start on a level playing field in any MMO, no matter if it's PC or console. Console gamers should not be placed at a disadvantage simply because the game was first released on a platform that they don't play. If it had been in the other direction, PC gamers would be outraged, particularly experienced MMO gamers. And rightfully so.

Fleymark

Curragraigue wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

First, I think you misread what I'm saying. Not to completely segregate xfers from new players that want to play with them. That would be silly when the whole point of the transfers, as they stated in the announcement, was for PC players to have the option to play with their friends on console or vice versa. That's totally fine.

What I am saying is that when you start on console you should get a choice of playing on a server with the transfers or a server that is clean and has no transfers. Personally, I would love to be able to do both (like we can play both EU and NA servers here as well as PTS) but that's not really important to this.

As far as the rest of your post, nothing personal, but if you don't understand how having players with a half a year or more head start forced on new players on a day 1 fresh server impacts the play environment, I'm not really sure what to say. Everyone having an equal opportunity to start fresh at the same time is paramount to the entire server dynamic, play environment, economy...EVERYTHING in am MMO. Pretending it doesn't reveals a lack of experience with MMOs and a very "single player game" mindset, honestly.

And there is absolutely no comparison to someone who puts in more playtime and earns a certain level quickly on a server with someone who did it elsewhere and transfered to it. And this is also why games that allow cross server transfers often don't allow transfers to a fresh server until it's been live for a year or limit transfers to and from special ruleset servers. That's just a ridiculous comparison, frankly.

Then there is the matter of crafting and research to consider. You are looking at months minimum to get 8 traits in a craft. There is no reason new crafters on release should have to compete from the moment go with people who did it here and transfers over, along with supplies of traits gems and upgrade mats.

In short, I'm simply saying that those who want to play with transfers should be able to, but those who don't should have that choice also.

I didn't misread your post the point I'm making is that there should be no separation everyone should be together on the same server. What I'm suggesting results in 6 servers (1 NA and 1 EU for PC, PS4 and XBox One) what you are suggesting results in 10 servers. I don't see the population base being big enough for that.

I'm also not pretending transferring players will not have an affect. The point I'm making is that the effect is minimal in the long term and is only a short term effect.

If there was forced PvP then there would be a problem but there is not. I didn't repeat what someone else had already said to you because I thought it was clear enough in their post. People can choose which PvP server they join low level players can compete with each other they don't have to compete with VR players. Players are otherwise not competing with each other. There is no leader board for hitting VR 12 first or defeating Molag Bal first or hitting a million gold first. Who cares if it takes one person a week to hit VR 12 and another person a few months, end result they both got there.

As I said, players that start 'fresh' will catch up. Will they initially start behind players that transfer? Yes. Will it make a difference in a few months time? No. The competitive players will have caught up.

I think we just fundamentally disagree regarding what type of game we are playing. You seem to consider this to be a competitive PvP only game where everything is a competition and with respect it is not. There are plenty of other things to do in the game outside of PvP.

With no real competition between players other than through competition that players choose themselves to engage in be that pure PvP, the economy or crafting having players transfer is not going to bring the sky down. Anything that a transferring player can get at the start of the game is something that a fresh starting player can get with time.

As you would know the one thing a good MMO has is plenty of time on its hands.

I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous.

You say that this has minimal impact but server population is an issue? Every megaserver has millions of people on it, if the assumed numbers that are floating around are true. And that's just PC. If they don't bork the console releases the numbers will dwarf what we have here. We have 2 megaservers, the consoles will be able to handle at least that with no problems. If population does become an issue they can merge them. It happens in aging MMOs all the time. They could have 4 console megaservers and if population is an issue at release the plane has flown into the mountain.

You can call this simply a PvP issue and offhandedly disregard the impacts on crafting and the economy but that's nothing more than a rationalization at the expense of new players. Your level and gear in pve directly correlates to how you do in PvP. Some people like to be the first at things. Or just ahead of the pack. All of which are impacted by this. It may not be important to YOU buy it is to others. And just because it's not something that shows up on a leaderboard or something doesn't mean it doesn't matter to everyone. It takes months minimum to research traits. Transfers will be able to craft 8 trait sets day 1. They will be able to bring epic and legendary improvement mats and motifs and will be able to get full capitalization of them day 1. Even flood the market diminishing the ability of new players to get full value of their early acquisitions. The list goes on and on...

If you think that the only competitive area of this or any other MMO is PvP and think that it just equitably works itself out over time when some players have had a head start and have been able to bring levels, marketable skills, and goods with them to a new play environment, then it is not I who lacks an understanding of what this or any other MMO is about. EVERYTHING changes over time and new players will never have the same experience or advantages that transfers will at server launch. Some players having an artificial head start impacts every aspect of the game for every player weather they realize it or not. Dedicated new starters will catch up eventually, but they will never catch up to the dedicated transfers. It's just complete tunnel vision to suggest this doesn't matter. As weak of an MMO as this is, it is still an MMO and we aren't in a vacuum in all areas of the game besides PvP. It's a ridiculous assertion, frankly.

What you are saying is akin to saying that games shouldn't wipe servers after beta....They do it for the precise reasons I discuss. Because paying customers deserve a fresh play environment on the first day the game is available.

nd a really easy rationalization to make since you will be transferring. It's only "minimal" to you because you are starting with an unfair advantage.

The bottom line is this: Console players deserve the choice of having a clean fresh server to play on day 1. Period. Just like we got.

They should not be penalized because the game got delayed and zenimax decided to offer xfers in order to get sales. Having to wait is bad enough. You shouldn't have to be both a PC player as well as a console gamer to get a fresh start when the console versions go live.

If someone argues otherwise, then I can only assume they have an agenda to take advantage of the head start in some way, frankly. There is no reason not to give people a choice for a fresh start in a new game, which is what this is if you don't play PC games.

Curragraigue

Fleymark wrote: »

I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous.

You say that this has minimal impact but server population is an issue? Every megaserver has millions of people on it, if the assumed numbers that are floating around are true. And that's just PC. If they don't bork the console releases the numbers will dwarf what we have here. We have 2 megaservers, the consoles will be able to handle at least that with no problems. If population does become an issue they can merge them. It happens in aging MMOs all the time. They could have 4 console megaservers and if population is an issue at release the plane has flown into the mountain.

You can call this simply a PvP issue and offhandedly disregard the impacts on crafting and the economy but that's nothing more than a rationalization at the expense of new players. Your level and gear in pve directly correlates to how you do in PvP. Some people like to be the first at things. Or just ahead of the pack. All of which are impacted by this. It may not be important to YOU buy it is to others. And just because it's not something that shows up on a leaderboard or something doesn't mean it doesn't matter to everyone. It takes months minimum to research traits. Transfers will be able to craft 8 trait sets day 1. They will be able to bring epic and legendary improvement mats and motifs and will be able to get full capitalization of them day 1. Even flood the market diminishing the ability of new players to get full value of their early acquisitions. The list goes on and on...

If you think that the only competitive area of this or any other MMO is PvP and think that it just equitably works itself out over time when some players have had a head start and have been able to bring levels, marketable skills, and goods with them to a new play environment, then it is not I who lacks an understanding of what this or any other MMO is about. EVERYTHING changes over time and new players will never have the same experience or advantages that transfers will at server launch. Some players having an artificial head start impacts every aspect of the game for every player weather they realize it or not. Dedicated new starters will catch up eventually, but they will never catch up to the dedicated transfers. It's just complete tunnel vision to suggest this doesn't matter. As weak of an MMO as this is, it is still an MMO and we aren't in a vacuum in all areas of the game besides PvP. It's a ridiculous assertion, frankly.

What you are saying is akin to saying that games shouldn't wipe servers after beta....They do it for the precise reasons I discuss. Because paying customers deserve a fresh play environment on the first day the game is available.

nd a really easy rationalization to make since you will be transferring. It's only "minimal" to you because you are starting with an unfair advantage.

The bottom line is this: Console players deserve the choice of having a clean fresh server to play on day 1. Period. Just like we got.

They should not be penalized because the game got delayed and zenimax decided to offer xfers in order to get sales. Having to wait is bad enough. You shouldn't have to be both a PC player as well as a console gamer to get a fresh start when the console versions go live.

If someone argues otherwise, then I can only assume they have an agenda to take advantage of the head start in some way, frankly. There is no reason not to give people a choice for a fresh start in a new game, which is what this is if you don't play PC games.

I don't why you keep referring to MMOs in general. We are talking about this game not every other MMO that has ever been made. The transfer is only relevant to how it impacts this game.

The experience of players playing the game is exactly the same. You start out at level 1 and level up. Transferring players started at level 1 on PC and had to level up console players staring fresh will have to do the same thing. Using your logic wouldn't you have an advantage over the other console players that have not had a chance to play the game and understand the mechanics like you have?

As to the never catch up argument. There is always a wall with MMOs, how long was level cap at VR 10? How long will it be at VR 12? There is always a wall for advancement at some stage and this is where the hard core players will catch up with each other whether they are transfer or console only players.

Players that transfer will be restricted to 5 guilds like everyone else they are not going to be flooding or cornering the market on trade items, mats or anything else like they would with other MMOs with auction houses.

What I'm suggesting would be 4 servers for consoles what you are suggesting would be 8 servers for consoles. PS4 and XBox 1 are getting separate servers and they are likely to both have an NA and EU server each. The game doesn't need a large capital cost investment for an unknown return at the start of its life on consoles.

I don't think the problems you have identified justify ZOS doubling the number of servers it would otherwise have to run. My motives are that I would like to see the game succeed on consoles, to that end cost vs benefit is what is my driving motive.

I ignored all of the not very well veiled personal attacks in both of your posts because they were off topic and frankly I don't really care that you don't agree with me. We are both entitled to an opinion, I have expressed mine you have expressed yours. If you want to constructively keep discussing it I'm happy to but I'm not engaging in a discussion if you are just wanting to flame people that disagree with your opinion.

Fleymark

Curragraigue wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous.

You say that this has minimal impact but server population is an issue? Every megaserver has millions of people on it, if the assumed numbers that are floating around are true. And that's just PC. If they don't bork the console releases the numbers will dwarf what we have here. We have 2 megaservers, the consoles will be able to handle at least that with no problems. If population does become an issue they can merge them. It happens in aging MMOs all the time. They could have 4 console megaservers and if population is an issue at release the plane has flown into the mountain.

You can call this simply a PvP issue and offhandedly disregard the impacts on crafting and the economy but that's nothing more than a rationalization at the expense of new players. Your level and gear in pve directly correlates to how you do in PvP. Some people like to be the first at things. Or just ahead of the pack. All of which are impacted by this. It may not be important to YOU buy it is to others. And just because it's not something that shows up on a leaderboard or something doesn't mean it doesn't matter to everyone. It takes months minimum to research traits. Transfers will be able to craft 8 trait sets day 1. They will be able to bring epic and legendary improvement mats and motifs and will be able to get full capitalization of them day 1. Even flood the market diminishing the ability of new players to get full value of their early acquisitions. The list goes on and on...

If you think that the only competitive area of this or any other MMO is PvP and think that it just equitably works itself out over time when some players have had a head start and have been able to bring levels, marketable skills, and goods with them to a new play environment, then it is not I who lacks an understanding of what this or any other MMO is about. EVERYTHING changes over time and new players will never have the same experience or advantages that transfers will at server launch. Some players having an artificial head start impacts every aspect of the game for every player weather they realize it or not. Dedicated new starters will catch up eventually, but they will never catch up to the dedicated transfers. It's just complete tunnel vision to suggest this doesn't matter. As weak of an MMO as this is, it is still an MMO and we aren't in a vacuum in all areas of the game besides PvP. It's a ridiculous assertion, frankly.

What you are saying is akin to saying that games shouldn't wipe servers after beta....They do it for the precise reasons I discuss. Because paying customers deserve a fresh play environment on the first day the game is available.

nd a really easy rationalization to make since you will be transferring. It's only "minimal" to you because you are starting with an unfair advantage.

The bottom line is this: Console players deserve the choice of having a clean fresh server to play on day 1. Period. Just like we got.

They should not be penalized because the game got delayed and zenimax decided to offer xfers in order to get sales. Having to wait is bad enough. You shouldn't have to be both a PC player as well as a console gamer to get a fresh start when the console versions go live.

If someone argues otherwise, then I can only assume they have an agenda to take advantage of the head start in some way, frankly. There is no reason not to give people a choice for a fresh start in a new game, which is what this is if you don't play PC games.

I don't why you keep referring to MMOs in general. We are talking about this game not every other MMO that has ever been made. The transfer is only relevant to how it impacts this game.

The experience of players playing the game is exactly the same. You start out at level 1 and level up. Transferring players started at level 1 on PC and had to level up console players staring fresh will have to do the same thing. Using your logic wouldn't you have an advantage over the other console players that have not had a chance to play the game and understand the mechanics like you have?

As to the never catch up argument. There is always a wall with MMOs, how long was level cap at VR 10? How long will it be at VR 12? There is always a wall for advancement at some stage and this is where the hard core players will catch up with each other whether they are transfer or console only players.

Players that transfer will be restricted to 5 guilds like everyone else they are not going to be flooding or cornering the market on trade items, mats or anything else like they would with other MMOs with auction houses.

What I'm suggesting would be 4 servers for consoles what you are suggesting would be 8 servers for consoles. PS4 and XBox 1 are getting separate servers and they are likely to both have an NA and EU server each. The game doesn't need a large capital cost investment for an unknown return at the start of its life on consoles.

I don't think the problems you have identified justify ZOS doubling the number of servers it would otherwise have to run. My motives are that I would like to see the game succeed on consoles, to that end cost vs benefit is what is my driving motive.

I ignored all of the not very well veiled personal attacks in both of your posts because they were off topic and frankly I don't really care that you don't agree with me. We are both entitled to an opinion, I have expressed mine you have expressed yours. If you want to constructively keep discussing it I'm happy to but I'm not engaging in a discussion if you are just wanting to flame people that disagree with your opinion.

There wasn't a single flame in what I posted. I simply have to question the motives of anyone who knows they will have an advantage in this way insisting that everyone starting a new game be forced to play with people with a 6 months or longer head start and have no other choice. It shouldn't matter to you one way or the other as long as you get to play with your friends. Yet, for some reason it's important to you that millions of new players not get the same fresh start that you did? Unfathomable to me.

Because the fact is, everything you cite as a concern, really isn't one for us, the players. Let zenimax worry about resources, population, server costs blah blah. It's our job to voice our concerns as what we would like to see as players. Whenever I see that come up in any discussion in an MMO it's generally a red herring to distract from the fact that the person citing it really has no other rationale for wanting whatever it is they are arguing for, they just want it to be that way just because they do, or because they have reasons they don't want to discuss publicly. They will do what they need to regardless of what we have to say about it....Resources and populations really aren't our problem.

And I bring other MMOs up because I've seen how server economies work and how transfers impact them over and over in multiple games for well over a decade. And nothing in ESO that I've seen for the first 3 months indicates that it is any exception. In fact, it's been really easy to watch because the economy is so simplistic here compared to most games. This game is a sitting duck for the problems that transfers present. Which is why I've thought it was a bad idea from the day they announced it.

Assuming, for the sake of discussion that resources and population aren't an issue, why else would it matter to you that players be given the same opportunity for a fresh start like PC players?

This is not a single player game, as much as many would like for it to be, where players exist in a vacuum outside of PvP. Transfers will have an immediate and permanent affect on every single aspect of the game starting the first day. Which is why I don't want to have to play in the same environment.

So what if there is a "wall" as you say of a max level? Having people already at it cheapens it for everyone else. That might not matter to you, but it does to a lot of people. And those people, from day 1, will be impacting the economy with gold they bring with them and with gold they can get faster at max level.

Gold being transferred is no small matter...From environments that once had a serious gold farmer botting problem, at that. Something that consoles won't have but wherever transfers end up, tainted gold that came from bots and exploits will come with them. That notwithstanding, transfers will be able to bring saleable goods and legitimately earned cash with them, also. There is no "wall" with sums of gold in this game and people having large sums of gold from the onset will give them a massive advantage in all areas of the economy and will cause prices to inflate faster. They probably already inflated faster here because of the botters and good sellers. Purple provisioning recipes are going for 900k and up now. Why? Because they are the rarest drops in the game and some people have amassed those sums. New players will start day 1 having to contend with that. Transfers carry all of these problems to consoles. New players in a new game for their platform don't deserve that on day one and every day after.

The list of implications are endless.

As I said, there is a reason servers get wiped after a beta. And frankly, we are playing a beta, even if people garnered knowledge of the game during beta. Personally, I want to see what a fresh start of this game looks like after it gets balanced and so many issues have been fixed. Not to mention exploits that were taken advantage of early on. A whole list of changes, really. A lot of people just like fresh starts, in general.

But that's just me. Regardless, it is entirely unreasonable, in my opinion, that people buying the game for the first time it is available on a particular platform to not have an opportunity to start fresh in a clean fresh environment on a level playing field with everyone else. Level wise, crafting wise, PvP, or economically.

And, frankly, nothing personal intended, I have a hard time understanding how anyone could be so egotistical as to think that people starting a game on a new platform, the first opportunity they've had to play it, shouldn't be allowed to be in a new fresh environment when the game launches for them. Especially when they did have that opportunity themselves.

Curragraigue

I have no theoretical problem with having servers that do not have any transferring players on them.

My problems remain the two practical problems that I mentioned that you are splitting population of players (which less face it could produce empty zones which no one will enjoy) and that there is a cost to the developer which if it cannot bear the costs of due to not enough sub money coming in will result in worse updates or the game folding earlier than it should. I don't consider either of those reasons to be egotistical they are in fact more utilitarian. You can question my motives and engage in conspiracy theories all you want but they are the only reasons why I don't agree with you.

Nor have you presented any reasons that I personally (I'm not the developers it is just my opinion) consider to be so negative or permanent that the game could not function in the manner intended. So as I said comparing risk to cost I just don't agree with you for the reasons I have previously given.

The only consumate recipes selling at those prices have gone to guilds not individuals. All I have seen with the economy is that prices for items have gone up when drop rates of items have been lowered and gone down when drop rates have been increased. Pretty simple economics that have nothing to do with the gold held by the purchasers. That is why the price of lower level blue recipes have been higher than the price of higher level blue recipes of late and not the other way around. More people are using the lower blues and they are not going on to the market as often.

If ZOS ever does come out and say, hey we are expecting a huge influx of players so we are going to offer servers for those transferring over and a separate server for people who don't want to play with them I would be cheering the very positive news on with you. I just don't see it happening based on the information we currently have. I hope I'm proven wrong

NewBlacksmurf

Interesting comments. I hopped someone would chime in and officially say something like hey we haven't thought this out or that conversations with each console will determine how this rolls out.

Knowing that the servers are the reason or at least one reason for the delays it only makes sense to address the questions prior to announcing a release date.

Here for big hopes in some more information.