Vet content is now even more grindier due to Finesse

Hilgara

Everyone seems to think the difficulty nerf will make levelling easier. Well maybe but it may also make it longer. If its easier to one-shot a mob then check out how much XP you get for that one-shot compared to having to use a range of skills. This is ESO's finesse system. It rewards skill with more XP. One-shot a mob and I get 20xp in vet levels. None one-shots over 400xp.

Way to go ZOS have a system that rewards skill then remove the need for it.

Faustes

When I tested it today in the VR2 zone, I was still getting about ~120 VP per kill even though I killed things much faster.

Zebug

I think you are mistaken... Are you testing that with the same enemy NPC? No matter how you kill an enemy you get the same XP

vyndral13preub18_ESO

It might not be that bad. Or good depending on how you look at it. The mobs I fought I could tell no real difference in their life totals. they die about the same. But right now i am a VR6 templar running Sword and Board/two hand. So I am about anti burst as you get. But to me I wont be able to kill mobs much faster then I did before. So it will still be slow going. But maybe a burstier build can do it.

But I might move into a burstier templar build now that mobs really aren't much of a threat to kill you. Why waste time I suppose.

Hilgara

Zebug wrote: »

I think you are mistaken... Are you testing that with the same enemy NPC? No matter how you kill an enemy you get the same XP

Yep. I've always noticed this. NB stealth surprise attack on a clothy. Inta kill at vet 10 gives 20xp. First noticed it about mid vets level and it never changed. install a combat add and test yourself.

Hilgara

Faustes wrote: »

When I tested it today in the VR2 zone, I was still getting about ~120 VP per kill even though I killed things much faster.

Only applies to one shots but any burst heavy build like NB's tend to get a lot of those. There are small differences for none one shots but they aren't anywhere near as huge

Zebug

Wait... I thought NB was broken... If you can one shot a mob your level then everyone has to stop crying how bad a NB is. I can two shot some mobs as the all powerful God aka light armor, stick using sorc but I still get full XP for that.

I guess this is a NB issue only then?

Swampster

Zebug wrote: »

Wait... I thought NB was broken... If you can one shot a mob your level then everyone has to stop crying how bad a NB is. I can two shot some mobs as the all powerful God aka light armor, stick using sorc but I still get full XP for that.

I guess this is a NB issue only then?

I think it's more a case of people using the NB as the basis of a medium armour/stamina/weapons build architype in the ranger/hunter mould and not using class skills that people are finding to be "broken"... ofc it equally applies to other classes too if they went the same way, but I think the NB fits the 'image' of that architype better..

Though some class skill trees were also a bit broken too I think.. not sure, as I stupidly went with the gimped architype mentioned above originally..

Hilgara

Zebug wrote: »

Wait... I thought NB was broken... If you can one shot a mob your level then everyone has to stop crying how bad a NB is. I can two shot some mobs as the all powerful God aka light armor, stick using sorc but I still get full XP for that.

I guess this is a NB issue only then?

Maybe before the last patch but one shots are likely to be a bit more common now

Hilgara

An explanation of finesse from ESO

Finesse is a special resource in ESO that gives you several valuable benefits. To accumulate it you must perform well in combat. You receive finesse for successful blocking, interrupting, attacking and other actions. It is an indicator of how good you are. Your rewards from each fight depend on the amount of finesse acquired during an encounter.

A basic level of finesse grants a minor experience bonus, but finesse rewards increase proportionally to the complexity of the fight and your proper actins during the fight. If you use your skills in time, use bonuses from synergy and react quick you receive extra gold, experience and loot. So you are interested in getting as many finesse as you can because you can accumulate more gold and level up faster.

Direct rewards are great but it is only one side of finesse benefits. Finesse points are earned through participating in combat but they also help you to defeat enemies quicker. Each class has its unique Ultimate abilities allowing huge variety of special attacks, summons or other actions. They are powerful and can be recharged only by accumulating finesse. The more finesse you receive the quicker you recharge your Ultimates.

Now why would finesse even exist if they didn't want you to develop some skills?
I suppose you can lead a hose to water......

Soothy

Hilgara wrote: »

An explanation of finesse from ESO

Finesse is a special resource in ESO that gives you several valuable benefits. To accumulate it you must perform well in combat. You receive finesse for successful blocking, interrupting, attacking and other actions. It is an indicator of how good you are. Your rewards from each fight depend on the amount of finesse acquired during an encounter.

A basic level of finesse grants a minor experience bonus, but finesse rewards increase proportionally to the complexity of the fight and your proper actins during the fight. If you use your skills in time, use bonuses from synergy and react quick you receive extra gold, experience and loot. So you are interested in getting as many finesse as you can because you can accumulate more gold and level up faster.

Direct rewards are great but it is only one side of finesse benefits. Finesse points are earned through participating in combat but they also help you to defeat enemies quicker. Each class has its unique Ultimate abilities allowing huge variety of special attacks, summons or other actions. They are powerful and can be recharged only by accumulating finesse. The more finesse you receive the quicker you recharge your Ultimates.

Now why would finesse even exist if they didn't want you to develop some skills?
I suppose you can lead a hose to water......

I don't really understand how this is a fair reward. On my magicka based alt I can successfully block, interrupt, attack and do other actions without it affecting my main abilities. On my stamina based alt, I can do all that and die trying.

Vuron

The real question is why are you fighting mobs? You don't level in VR by killing mobs. Do dolmens, delves, world bosses, and the Cadwell quests. This should get you about one full level. Move to the next zone.

Mix in some of the group VR dungeons and you are golden. Killing mobs has always been worthless in VR.

hk11

Vuron wrote: »

The real question is why are you fighting mobs? You don't level in VR by killing mobs. Do dolmens, delves, world bosses, and the Cadwell quests. This should get you about one full level. Move to the next zone.

Mix in some of the group VR dungeons and you are golden. Killing mobs has always been worthless in VR.

Yeah I was going to say it shouldn't matter as long as you can get to the quest turn in faster.

Soloeus

I was getting my normal amount, nothing changed for me. What are you talking about have you even played the new vet content and tested or are you just sounding the alarm before checking?

I have played in V6 lands as a V9 and noticed that I am getting the same exp per kill. I am getting more exp/hour than I was but I am still a ways away from V10.

Hilgara

Calculate how many trash mobs you kill that are not quest objectives and you will see just how much killing stuff between quest rewards and dolmens etc actually contributes to levelling. My NB could sneak past lots of stuff I cba to fight but the sorc more or less had to. By the time I finished the last V zone on the sorc it was V12. On the NB it was V10 both doing exactly the same quests.

kitsinni

So basically on every three pack you get less xp on one of those mobs, the other two you can kill much easier and that is going to make the entire thing "more grindier"? If it is that big of a deal don't sneak attack the first guy.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Hilgara wrote: »

An explanation of finesse from ESO

Finesse is a special resource in ESO that gives you several valuable benefits. To accumulate it you must perform well in combat. You receive finesse for successful blocking, interrupting, attacking and other actions. It is an indicator of how good you are. Your rewards from each fight depend on the amount of finesse acquired during an encounter.

A basic level of finesse grants a minor experience bonus, but finesse rewards increase proportionally to the complexity of the fight and your proper actins during the fight. If you use your skills in time, use bonuses from synergy and react quick you receive extra gold, experience and loot. So you are interested in getting as many finesse as you can because you can accumulate more gold and level up faster.

Direct rewards are great but it is only one side of finesse benefits. Finesse points are earned through participating in combat but they also help you to defeat enemies quicker. Each class has its unique Ultimate abilities allowing huge variety of special attacks, summons or other actions. They are powerful and can be recharged only by accumulating finesse. The more finesse you receive the quicker you recharge your Ultimates.

Now why would finesse even exist if they didn't want you to develop some skills?
I suppose you can lead a hose to water......

I've never heard of this mechanic, the game clearly failed to explain itself to me.

zmanu

Vr mobs give so little vp they might as well give nothing at all.
I thought the finesse thingy never even made it to the live version, it does not matter regardless.

Nidwin

@Hilgara

Stop xp/vp grinding on those poor wolves.

Syntse

Hilgara wrote: »

Zebug wrote: »

I think you are mistaken... Are you testing that with the same enemy NPC? No matter how you kill an enemy you get the same XP

Yep. I've always noticed this. NB stealth surprise attack on a clothy. Inta kill at vet 10 gives 20xp. First noticed it about mid vets level and it never changed. install a combat add and test yourself.

Very same discussion thread was some time ago, however think it mainly concentrated on pre-vet exp but very same situation. Problem is that the add-on logs do not show exp gains correctly and when exp is made it usually comes in multiple parts... this finesse and the actual exp killing mob.

CLS would show
You gain 17vp
You gain 104vp
from same kill, at the same time something like xpview might only show one of those, lets say 17 which would make you believe you only got 17vp from the kill.

When this was open issue on pre-vet discussion thread I did my test but I looked the exp before and after from the in game exp bar and counted the exp gain. No matter did I one shot mob or used 30sec to fight it blocking, dodge, skill, normal attack the exp was the same.

Hilgara

Nidwin wrote: »

@Hilgara

Stop xp/vp grinding on those poor wolves.

lol xp from wolves.....tell me another

WyndStryke

Zebug wrote: »

I think you are mistaken... Are you testing that with the same enemy NPC? No matter how you kill an enemy you get the same XP

I thought this was well-known? One-shotting an enemy has been reported to give less XP than a hard fight many times. And ZOS themselves have said that the finesse system will give more XP in certain cases.


Actually I think it is reasonable. a) If it was an easy battle, you learn less. and b) it helps balance things slightly.



(The problem with b being that it doesn't take account of the difference between burst-damage builds and sustained-damage builds).

MongooseOne

Wasn't the finesse system scrapped in early beta? I think you are reading very old information about that.

Maybe most of the complaints here are from misinformation....

kitsinni

Syntse wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

Zebug wrote: »

I think you are mistaken... Are you testing that with the same enemy NPC? No matter how you kill an enemy you get the same XP

Yep. I've always noticed this. NB stealth surprise attack on a clothy. Inta kill at vet 10 gives 20xp. First noticed it about mid vets level and it never changed. install a combat add and test yourself.

Very same discussion thread was some time ago, however think it mainly concentrated on pre-vet exp but very same situation. Problem is that the add-on logs do not show exp gains correctly and when exp is made it usually comes in multiple parts... this finesse and the actual exp killing mob.

CLS would show
You gain 17vp
You gain 104vp
from same kill, at the same time something like xpview might only show one of those, lets say 17 which would make you believe you only got 17vp from the kill.

When this was open issue on pre-vet discussion thread I did my test but I looked the exp before and after from the in game exp bar and counted the exp gain. No matter did I one shot mob or used 30sec to fight it blocking, dodge, skill, normal attack the exp was the same.

I think this is right. I have noticed a lot of times when various addons that show XP don't actually show how much you are really getting.

Also if it is really that big of a deal to get 20xp instead of 100 on one of the three guys you don't have to sneak attack the guy. Nightblade can run in and fight the same way everyone else can. The truth is if the content is as easy for you as you are claiming you are going to get more xp faster by skipping the sneak and just attacking anyway. The time it takes to sneak, get behind and surprise attack you could have just ran up to two packs by then. Starting in sneak is only necessary for a challenging group.

Hilgara

Not sure if it was all fully implemented but I do know that rewards vary depending on the time to kill. I suspect this was to lower the rewards for killing stuff well below your level but it will have a knock on effect for people who are now able to one shot appropriate level mobs. I could often one-shot clothies before the patch with surprise attack from stealth and was one shotting them with critical rush on pre vet content on my DK.

Nidwin

There was some kind of "finesse" implemented because that's how I was able to get my credit in the public dungeons with all those bots farming the bosses.

mra4nii

For veteran content, when you kill a mob you actually get 3 different XP:
1. XP for finesse
2. VP for kill
3. XP for kill

VP increase your general level.
XP increase skill level when is not maxed and accumulate ultimate.
So, finesse will help you to lvlup faster only prior lvl50.

Syntse

Big discussion about the same thing
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/93576/xp-gain-calculation-broken-final-conclusion-first-post-edited-and-contains-all-the-relevant-info/p1

And to point out that the OP there relied on add-on. When you do your tests, check exp bar on your character sheet before and after, count the difference. Add-ons are not reliable.

frwinters_ESO

The XP has not changed. You will level fine.