FWIW my observations on the latest patch

jimmymcdead

So a little background... I'd never played an MMO before ESO. I've played Oblivion and Skyrim to death and that's what made me want to play ESO. I play a lot (a few times a week) of single player FPS and I've probably 100 games on steam - very few of which I've actually completed. I wouldn't say I'm a casual gamer, but I'm pretty close.

I'm probably your average ESO player. It took me a couple of months to get to VR2 playing a few times a week, and more often than not with (more than) a couple of alcoholic beverages. My gear is average, my crafting is average... I'm pretty much Mr.Average. All my decent gear were main quest rewards... until very recently my main sword was a lvl 42 prismatic blade. I play an imperial DK 12 / 13 / 25 (if I remember correctly) and I'm using a tank build, sword and board with skills that somebody recommended on the forums. Until recently I was mostly heavy armor but since progressing to he V-levels I've been mixing it up.

It took me about 2 and a half weeks to complete Auridon - my first vet zone - and I started Grahtwood this weekend. The zone was pretty quiet and so I found myself starting in Haven pretty much on my own. I did a couple of the easier quests and found it tough, so moved back to the Auridon to get any remaining shards and clear out everything else.

Last night I tried the main Haven quest on my own and was pretty much getting hammered by any groups of mobs over 2. I didn't feel like it was impossible but it was tough. I wanted to try it before the patch today to gauge the change.

So today I went back to Grahtwood and retried the same quest. Was it easier? yes.

But. It's not that easy. I completed the main Haven quest. I died a few times in the sewers and then I got to the final part of the quest - the Fighters Guild hall with all those zombies. I was getting hammered over and over. Eventually I had to change my build three times until I found something that would work in there... and it wasn't easy. It was slow and strategic and very challenging.

I'm not sure if ESO was too tough. It was certainly more difficult than Skyrim but it wasn't oppressively. I did feel that the step-up to Vet was big but I liked it. I liked being forced to consider my build and try new things. I'm paying for sub like everybody else, I want a challenge.

With that in mind I would suggest that people take posts from other players here with a grain of salt; consider that the people posting here are most probably those elite level, expert players that have the best possible gear and know the mechanics of the game inside out. My hat is off to those guys, there probably isn't game out there that will challenge them.

ESO is made for the masses though, and I'm one of them. I love ESO. Yes, it has it issues (PVP fps... ) but having experienced Oblivion and Skyrim, I wasn't surprised that there were issues but I've found the complaining over the top for the most part.

I don't believe the game is too easy now, at least not for players of my skill level, I acknowledge that there are issues and I've experienced my fair share of frustration - it took me a while to even get to Haven today because of an issue with the wayshrine! But too easy? - no, not in my opinion.

The existing issues won't put me off though; the writing, the voice acting, the scenery, the story-line, lore etc..- make this game a very worthwhile experience for me.

I'm really enjoying my time in ESO, and I'll recommended to anybody that asks.

drogon1

Not at vet content yet, but this was a good, considered post.

jimmymcdead

drogon1 wrote: »

Not at vet content yet, but this was a good, considered post.

Thank you.

Evergnar

Appreciate your honest straight forward review/observations jimmymcdead. The range of player types ESO attracted was pretty broad. The challenge to make it appealing to everyone was always going to be a tough one for Zos.

Kcttocs

I've finished grahtwood the vr2 level and started greenwood tonight. I was exploring and jumped to the vr5 level and took down a troll by my self, it was the same as in Grahtwood, high hit points, but very easy if you knock him back every time he gets close. They say they only toned down the vr1-3 zones, but I wonder. I didn't try any of the 3 man mobs in the higher zones but I can definitely tell it's easier. I just paid and got a whole new set of custom armor that gave me buffs for health instead of Majika the other day when I reached VR3 (didn't know about nerf to the mobs), now I am regretting that choice, the VR2 content was damn tough, but doable, so I was deathly afraid of taking on 3 man mobs at vr3 level hence the health buffs. Frankly I am glad they made it a little easier. Basically after reaching VR level, I found it was way easier to run straight up to the mob and spam the crap out of puncturing sweep, maneuvering so the group is in my cone, because the archers and the dude that throws those stars hit too dang hard even when blocking to mess with afar. Over all I think it was a good move, glad I got to at least feel the pain up to vr3, now I can concentrate on upping my other skills and don't have to keep my kill fast skills on my bar at all times due to the power of those 3man mobs.. just humble opinion.

darkmadman187

Nice to see a post without any arguing or insults to a different type of player. I agree that Vet content is very difficult (EU Server so just got patch). I had a lot of problems with my V1 Templar but am specced mainly for group healing but yesterday tried something different by adding in rune focus to my solo build & it made it much easier while still being a challenge. I agree with a lot of players that trash shouldn't be as difficult as bosses but that is my opinion as a casual player so don't expect others to share this. Also I think Evergnar was correct that it will be very difficult for ZOS to please everyone but I enjoy ESO, I have a nice friendly guild that I group with on weekends which provides me with the social aspect. Hope to see more posts like this where we can have a civilised conversation so ZOS can get some constructive feedback.

Csub

Kcttocs wrote: »

I've finished grahtwood the vr2 level and started greenwood tonight. I was exploring and jumped to the vr5 level and took down a troll by my self, it was the same as in Grahtwood, high hit points, but very easy if you knock him back every time he gets close. They say they only toned down the vr1-3 zones, but I wonder. I didn't try any of the 3 man mobs in the higher zones but I can definitely tell it's easier. I just paid and got a whole new set of custom armor that gave me buffs for health instead of Majika the other day when I reached VR3 (didn't know about nerf to the mobs), now I am regretting that choice, the VR2 content was damn tough, but doable, so I was deathly afraid of taking on 3 man mobs at vr3 level hence the health buffs. Frankly I am glad they made it a little easier. Basically after reaching VR level, I found it was way easier to run straight up to the mob and spam the crap out of puncturing sweep, maneuvering so the group is in my cone, because the archers and the dude that throws those stars hit too dang hard even when blocking to mess with afar. Over all I think it was a good move, glad I got to at least feel the pain up to vr3, now I can concentrate on upping my other skills and don't have to keep my kill fast skills on my bar at all times due to the power of those 3man mobs.. just humble opinion.

They never said they toned down only the VR 1-3 zones, they toned down both the second (VR 1-5) and third 5(VR 5-10) alliances.

By the way, nice post, OP, I am an EU player so I haven't experienced the nerf yet but I do agree that some fine tuning was needed (if not necessarily nerf) but I hope they didn't overdo it. Some people tend to overreact things around here.

jimmymcdead

Evergnar wrote: »

Appreciate your honest straight forward review/observations jimmymcdead. The range of player types ESO attracted was pretty broad. The challenge to make it appealing to everyone was always going to be a tough one for Zos.

Thank you and I agree: it was. It's easier to recreate an (WOW clone) mmo ala wildstar, than build an mmo that converts those TES guys like me which comes close to retaining the things we know and love about the original games while introducing us to social aspects - we've never had to deal with before.. and then Zos has t sell that to a whole new market to keep it going....

As you say Zos has a difficult job in balancing things for everybody,not just the uninitiated.

Innocente

Jimmy,

I am sorry, but you still have not played an MMO. ESO is most definitely NOT an MMO by any normal definition of the term MMO.

ESO is really a Single Player game with a Multi-Player option founded on a lobby based server technology that funnels random players into instanced areas.

It is actually a really, really bad tech idea. It has created the equivalent of the WoW random dungeon group finder across an entire game world.

In any case, real MMO vets are leaving this game in droves. And just as soon as the Single Player game folks fully comprehend that they are paying $15 a month for a very poor Skyrim knock-off, they will be leaving as well, I expect.

Kcttocs

Csub wrote: »

They never said they toned down only the VR 1-3 zones, they toned down both the second (VR 1-5) and third 5(VR 5-10) alliances.

By the way, nice post, OP, I am an EU player so I haven't experienced the nerf yet but I do agree that some fine tuning was needed (if not necessarily nerf) but I hope they didn't overdo it. Some people tend to overreact things around here.

Yeah, I guess I misread that part. Thanks for correcting.

Csub

Kcttocs wrote: »

Csub wrote: »

They never said they toned down only the VR 1-3 zones, they toned down both the second (VR 1-5) and third 5(VR 5-10) alliances.

By the way, nice post, OP, I am an EU player so I haven't experienced the nerf yet but I do agree that some fine tuning was needed (if not necessarily nerf) but I hope they didn't overdo it. Some people tend to overreact things around here.

Yeah, I guess I misread that part. Thanks for correcting.

It's okay, in fact, I saw several other people writing the same so it might had been easy to misunderstand at first!

jimmymcdead

Innocente wrote: »

Jimmy,

I am sorry, but you still have not played an MMO. ESO is most definitely NOT an MMO by any normal definition of the term MMO.

ESO is really a Single Player game with a Multi-Player option founded on a lobby based server technology that funnels random players into instanced areas.

It is actually a really, really bad tech idea. It has created the equivalent of the WoW random dungeon group finder across an entire game world.

In any case, real MMO vets are leaving this game in droves. And just as soon as the Single Player game folks fully comprehend that they are paying $15 a month for a very poor Skyrim knock-off, they will be leaving as well, I expect.

Innocente,

I'm not sorry and I disagree.

It is an MMO by all definitions of what an MMO is.

To say it's a 'single player game...' and to go on and call it a Skyrim knock off is utter nonsense.

If you're going to make stupid claims, qualify them.

JMD

Shunravi

Nice post, thanks for sharing your experience!

Innocente

Well, Jimmy

I have been playing MMOs since 2001 and EQ1. Some for years. I know I won't be able to convince you that ESO is not an MMO, so I won't try. But, someday, you will play a real MMO (I hope), and find out what they are really all about. It is not what ESO is offering.

forthewinn2

To me it seems like veteran content is too easy now.
As much as I hate to admit it I was kind of growing fond of the challenge of having to think through how I was going to handle each encounter and adjust accordingly.

I just soloed a vr10 troll will not wearing any armor, an act that would prior to the veteran nerf have promptly gotten my face wrecked, this helps to cement( in my mind at least) that this veteran nerf is more than little overkill.

I will admit that i found a few veteran quests to be a little too tough but i feel like these are isolated cases and are not an excuse to nerf all veteran mobs.

no more nerfs plz

Elad13

I have only played a few mmo's and have to say I see both opinions....Both are correct...it is and isn't a typical Mmo. It is however a little of both and that's a pretty big attempt to present a game that allows both. There might be other games out there that do the same thing but I haven't played them. But in either case if you put effort into grouping you can but not as easy has other games allow you....so I play solo but always hope I find someone doing the same quest to team up with....though that does not happen much in the 3rd vr storyline. 4 more Cadwell quest to go before I finish that....

jimmymcdead

Innocente wrote: »

Well, Jimmy

I have been playing MMOs since 2001 and EQ1. Some for years. I know I won't be able to convince you that ESO is not an MMO, so I won't try. But, someday, you will play a real MMO (I hope), and find out what they are really all about. It is not what ESO is offering.

I know guys playing MMOs longer than you, and I've played ESO with them. The difference between you and them is they play each on their own merits. While they they might not like ESO... it's not the point of my original post.

If you dont like it ESO dont pay the sub and leave.

jimmymcdead

Shunravi wrote: »

Nice post, thanks for sharing your experience!

Thanks mate!

jimmymcdead

forthewinn2 wrote: »

To me it seems like veteran content is too easy now.
As much as I hate to admit it I was kind of growing fond of the challenge of having to think through how I was going to handle each encounter and adjust accordingly.

I just soloed a vr10 troll will not wearing any armor, an act that would prior to the veteran nerf have promptly gotten my face wrecked, this helps to cement( in my mind at least) that this veteran nerf is more than little overkill.

I will admit that i found a few veteran quests to be a little too tough but i feel like these are isolated cases and are not an excuse to nerf all veteran mobs.

no more nerfs plz

The point of my post was this - I can't do that. I'm an average player.


Congrats on your awesome skills and I'll take that armor if you wanna keep playing nude.

Csub

I also played several MMOs and I must say ESO is an MMO. Not your typical MMO, but to be honest, I would be offended if it didn't put a big emphasis on solo content, being a TES game and all that stuff.

I have 420ish hours in my main character and still have like 40% of the content till Craglorn left (1.5 zone till 3rd Alliance). Any other MMO took me this long, I would have quit. Then again, I am intentionally taking my time like in TES/Fallout games where I am often before my 2nd main quest with 60+ hours already spent in the game.

And I also love the group content and PvP (when it works), so the MMO part too.

But we all have different preferences and that is fine like that,

forthewinn2

@jimmymcdead i completely understand where you are coming from.
I just think that the developers went about this the wrong way, they should be giving people more options like a difficulty toggle or an optional npc mercenary you can take with you on quests. it just feels like they are forcing everyone into one option
without even trying alternatives.

Thevampirenight

it does an unknown error every 10 15 or 30 minutes needs to be fixed its bad this patch
that and the lag and load times are longer

jimmymcdead

Csub wrote: »

I also played several MMOs and I must say ESO is an MMO. Not your typical MMO, but to be honest, I would be offended if it didn't put a big emphasis on solo content, being a TES game and all that stuff.

I have 420ish hours in my main character and still have like 40% of the content till Craglorn left (1.5 zone till 3rd Alliance). Any other MMO took me this long, I would have quit. Then again, I am intentionally taking my time like in TES/Fallout games where I am often before my 2nd main quest with 60+ hours already spent in the game.

And I also love the group content and PvP (when it works), so the MMO part too.

But we all have different preferences and that is fine like that,

As I said above it's was my first mmo.

The first time I completed a dolmen with other players was huge rush for me. It got me hooked. I actually tried

forthewinn2 wrote: »

@jimmymcdead i completely understand where you are coming from.
I just think that the developers went about this the wrong way, they should be giving people more options like a difficulty toggle or an optional npc mercenary you can take with you on quests. it just feels like they are forcing everyone into one option
without even trying alternatives.

Then it is just a solo game + an npc.

I understand where're coming from but it equates to a solo game which means those of us that want the group game will suffer.

It is one option. And that option is.....

MMO

So we need to deal with or go back to Skyrim.

forthewinn2

With the veteran content nerf I would say that the developers are encouraging solo play. If however the devs had added npc mercenaries (yes like skyrim) instead, then people could have the following options:
1)play solo without an npc and enjoy the challenge
2)play with a friend (ie group up for quests) and still not use the npc
3)play solo and use the npc to assist you

(of course these npcs wouldn't be allowed for group dungeons or trials)

Gilvoth

forthewinn2 wrote: »

With the veteran content nerf I would say that the developers are encouraging solo play. If however the devs had added npc mercenaries (yes like skyrim) instead, then people could have the following options:
1)play solo without an npc and enjoy the challenge
2)play with a friend (ie group up for quests) and still not use the npc
3)play solo and use the npc to assist you

(of course these npcs wouldn't be allowed for group dungeons or trials)

could the dev's please do this? i have been asking for a companion for a long long time.

please

kijima

Innocente wrote: »

Jimmy,

I am sorry, but you still have not played an MMO. ESO is most definitely NOT an MMO by any normal definition of the term MMO.

ESO is really a Single Player game with a Multi-Player option founded on a lobby based server technology that funnels random players into instanced areas.

It is actually a really, really bad tech idea. It has created the equivalent of the WoW random dungeon group finder across an entire game world.

In any case, real MMO vets are leaving this game in droves. And just as soon as the Single Player game folks fully comprehend that they are paying $15 a month for a very poor Skyrim knock-off, they will be leaving as well, I expect.

^ Forums unfortunately are full of people with flawed thinking like this.

jimmymcdead

I dont know how but my replies got

forthewinn2 wrote: »

With the veteran content nerf I would say that the developers are encouraging solo play. If however the devs had added npc mercenaries (yes like skyrim) instead, then people could have the following options:
1)play solo without an npc and enjoy the challenge
2)play with a friend (ie group up for quests) and still not use the npc
3)play solo and use the npc to assist you

(of course these npcs wouldn't be allowed for group dungeons or trials)

Have you ever played with a decent npc?

I think ZOS would just be opening themselves up for another world of hurt.

It's an MMO. There were no NPCs in Skyrim or otherwise that were any good.

jimmymcdead

kijima wrote: »

Innocente wrote: »

Jimmy,

I am sorry, but you still have not played an MMO. ESO is most definitely NOT an MMO by any normal definition of the term MMO.

ESO is really a Single Player game with a Multi-Player option founded on a lobby based server technology that funnels random players into instanced areas.

It is actually a really, really bad tech idea. It has created the equivalent of the WoW random dungeon group finder across an entire game world.

In any case, real MMO vets are leaving this game in droves. And just as soon as the Single Player game folks fully comprehend that they are paying $15 a month for a very poor Skyrim knock-off, they will be leaving as well, I expect.

^ Forums unfortunately are full of people with flawed thinking like this.

Stop spamming my thread!!!! ;-)

Ojustaboo

jimmymcdead wrote: »

If you dont like it ESO dont pay the sub and leave.

While true, I am considering leaving, the vet difficulty change being my final straw, but I wanted this to be my next long term mmo.

And I still hope they can achieve this.

While changes might not be done entirely on forum feedback, I would be surprised if it didn't have a fairly big impact on their decisions, for example being able to skip starter islands was done simply due to forum and review feedback.

My point being, if everyone unhappy for whatever reason simply unsubbed, the devs would wonder why everyone was leaving.

Feedback might be vocal due to high emotions but that is due mainly from people wanting this game to be their home.

Not aiming this at you personally, it sometimes seems like whenever a player has a different opinion in any aspect of game play, rather than have a reasonable discussion, someone tells them to stop playing then

jimmymcdead

I wanted to take a couple of these conversations to pm but I can't do that apparently.

Ojustaboo wrote: »

jimmymcdead wrote: »

If you dont like it ESO dont pay the sub and leave.

While true, I am considering leaving, the vet difficulty change being my final straw, but I wanted this to be my next long term mmo.

And I still hope they can achieve this.

While changes might not be done entirely on forum feedback, I would be surprised if it didn't have a fairly big impact on their decisions, for example being able to skip starter islands was done simply due to forum and review feedback.

My point being, if everyone unhappy for whatever reason simply unsubbed, the devs would wonder why everyone was leaving.

Feedback might be vocal due to high emotions but that is due mainly from people wanting this game to be their home.

Not aiming this at you personally, it sometimes seems like whenever a player has a different opinion in any aspect of game play, someone tells them to stop plsying then

What is your opinion?

You're not clear at all.

Ojustaboo

jimmymcdead wrote: »

I wanted to take a couple of these conversations to pm but I can't do that apparently.

Ojustaboo wrote: »

jimmymcdead wrote: »

If you dont like it ESO dont pay the sub and leave.

While true, I am considering leaving, the vet difficulty change being my final straw, but I wanted this to be my next long term mmo.

And I still hope they can achieve this.

While changes might not be done entirely on forum feedback, I would be surprised if it didn't have a fairly big impact on their decisions, for example being able to skip starter islands was done simply due to forum and review feedback.

My point being, if everyone unhappy for whatever reason simply unsubbed, the devs would wonder why everyone was leaving.

Feedback might be vocal due to high emotions but that is due mainly from people wanting this game to be their home.

Not aiming this at you personally, it sometimes seems like whenever a player has a different opinion in any aspect of game play, someone tells them to stop plsying then

What is your opinion?

You're not clear at all.

Sorry. My opinion is probably best described in this very long post I made yesterday

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1085629/#Comment_1085629