L2P
Longman
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Like most others too levelling to 50 was rather easy. Once entered the VR-Zones I quickly came to the point, where my favourite skills didn't work that well anymore and I had to re-think my build. I tried different approches and different skills. While levelling VR I really started to read the tool-text of the skills and learned the most about my class. Without this experience I wouldn't be able to play my class the way I do right now.
With Carglorn people began to grind their level and did not need to develop their skills while impulsing everything down in a large dressed group. Right now there are many VR 12 guys who don't have enough experience to play their classes.
The downgrading of the VR-Zones won't do those people any favour once they enter a VR Dungeon or Trial where you simply need a certain amount of class-knowledge.
Those who enjoy the simplified VR Zones today will complain about the too hard VR dungeons tomorrow. So what will happen then?
With Carglorn people began to grind their level and did not need to develop their skills while impulsing everything down in a large dressed group. Right now there are many VR 12 guys who don't have enough experience to play their classes.
The downgrading of the VR-Zones won't do those people any favour once they enter a VR Dungeon or Trial where you simply need a certain amount of class-knowledge.
Those who enjoy the simplified VR Zones today will complain about the too hard VR dungeons tomorrow. So what will happen then?
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Malpherian✭✭✭✭✭Well honestly the bottom line is money, if making the content slightly easier, means ZOS will recover subs/retain, that's what they will do in the short term. In the long term, I think ZOS will re-balance the issue properly, and add new and better content for the more elitist hard core players.
As I said before though, Leveling should never require an elitist mentality. End game content, well, that's another matter. But there also needs to be content for the casual player base, and TES fans, which makes up the majority of the player base. If ZOS catered to the Elitist, the game would die within a month and only have a few 1000 people at most playing it.
The TES franchise is about the RP/Lore/Immersion experience, not about how difficult a Mob encounter is.Edited by Malpherian on July 7, 2014 9:18PM8 -
Animus0724✭✭✭Malpherian wrote: »Well honestly the bottom line is money, if making the content slightly easier, means ZOS will recover subs/retain, that's what they will do in the short term. In the long term, I think ZOS will re-balance the issue properly, and add new and better content for the more elitist hard core players.
As I said before though, Leveling should never require an elitist mentality. End game content, well, that's another matter. But there also needs to be content for the casual player base, and TES fans, which makes up the majority of the player base. If ZOS catered to the Elitist, the game would die within a month and only have a few 1000 people at most playing it.
The TES franchise is about the RP/Lore/Immersion experience, not about how difficult a Mob encounter is.
Again with this 'elitist' ***, first of all it doesn't take elite skills to down the old VR mobs, simply use your brain, something many of these children can't seem to do. I was facerolling VR content as a nightblade with old VR mobs. All I did was adjust my style and stats accordingly. Now I literally just stand there and spam my left mouse button.
Although vet was unbalance, this was the completely wrong way to approach this issue. Now it is quite literally, a childrens game.
If they plan on releasing some content for the more competent players, they better have some really good rewards and not allow those lazy players to have any opinion on our content.I take pride in being an incredibly smart dumb ass, or an incredibly dumb smart ass, either way I'm awesome.
-The Art Of Warfare (T.A.W.)7 -
Lodestar✭✭✭✭When there was complaints about certain fights and instances in the first month when people were levelling, I thought often, how developers would do well, to implement more tuition to have in game coaching. Even an interactive question and answer with a voice acted NPC. Where you could discuss, what enemies, or monsters you were having trouble with. And they would respond with viable tactics and skills relevant to your class and weapon. And allow you to practice that tactic against said monster, for no "real damage" or gear breakdown.
This would allow you to take a little more charge of your own playstyle and skill, learning to play to your own strengths. It could even allow you to practice different builds, without buying skills and abilities. Just a temporary slot you lose as soon as you leave, reverting to your current build. And allowing you to then choose what to buy with your skill points. No confusion on what you thought certain abilities were. You experience them for yourself.
Where it would really shine, is if study was done to implement this in a way, people who are visual, audio or kinesthetic would pick it up. Rather than favouring one of them, as most learning tends to do. A fascinating subject in of itself, and may well be part of the reason, you simply "can not get", one of your friends or family members. Well worth remembering, when you are getting wound up, because someone does not understand you.
However, I can see this as not being viable, which is sad, as the bare bones, when once done, could be implemented into any future gaming project. And may have been an interesting ongoing project as well as a possible investment.
But, as it is a pipe dream I never mentioned it. I am just reminded of it with all the talk of people saying the levelling from 1-50 rarely required any real ability testing (I disagree), but what I do wonder is how it would have impacted the need for VR if people could practice and improve their game.
Anyway, sorry if I hijacked your thread OP.1 -
Longman✭✭Money is the thing. I seems to me that right now the marketing starts to pull every lever they can in order to get more subs. They might have figured out, that many players leave because the VR Zones are too difficult. If they get numbers, that subs raise with pink-fluffy unicorns they will give them unicorns. This is okay. No one believes Zenimax is doing this because of altruism. They have to earn money.
When I started playing this game I believed that VR Zones are for veterans. Guys who have passed the levelling process and now spend their time in some hard-time areas testing their skills and doing group content and other endgame-stuff.
Unfortunately the decision was made that VR zones are part of the levelling process and not endgame anymore (if they ever were). So we have to deal with it. But moving the difficulty threshold to V12 will even build a bigger problem than it is right now because the threshold will be much higher for those who never had the need to develop their skills till that point. So lowering the difficulty for VR zones is a very short term tactic if you don't plan to lower the difficulty of VR dungeons and trials too.
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Anastasia✭✭✭✭Malpherian wrote: »Well honestly the bottom line is money, if making the content slightly easier, means ZOS will recover subs/retain, that's what they will do in the short term. In the long term, I think ZOS will re-balance the issue properly, and add new and better content for the more elitist hard core players.
As I said before though, Leveling should never require an elitist mentality. End game content, well, that's another matter. But there also needs to be content for the casual player base, and TES fans, which makes up the majority of the player base. If ZOS catered to the Elitist, the game would die within a month and only have a few 1000 people at most playing it.
The TES franchise is about the RP/Lore/Immersion experience, not about how difficult a Mob encounter is.
"slightly easier" eh? Yea, "just a tad..."
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tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭this game takes almost 0 skill to play, the only thing you need to do to "win" is set up the right abilities and spam them.Edited by tplink3r1 on July 7, 2014 9:55PMVR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer0 -
Melufey✭✭✭this game takes almost 0 skill to play, the only thing you need to do to "win" is set up the right abilities and spam them.
You forgot to use best class and race combo! Noob! :-PFür das Dominion und die Königin!
Bosmer - Nachtklinge
"Man mag den Stamm trennen, aber die Ranke tötet man damit nicht."0 -
KariTR✭✭✭✭✭@Lodestar
I said on Friday when the announcement was made, L1-L50 will now be harder than Vet zones. I should clarify, I am coming at this from a completely new players perspective and the reason for my opinion is simple.
Vet zones don't have a Doshia or a Thane or a Mannimarco to fight. I got Doshia right away - coming from SWTOR, destroying orbs is instinctual - but the other two fights, along with some sneaky vanishing boss in a cave whose name escapes me, they were blooming hard. Mostly because I was dead before I could see what it was that was killing me. So it took me more deaths than it should have before I was able to figure it out (or resorted to looking here for guidance), not because I was dense.
By the time I got to VR, I pretty much had it covered. The only real difference is I now wear set pieces to enhance my class/attributes/skills, instead of just swapping out worn items with whatever dropped.
I think your point about making boss fights during 1-50 more informative very insightful. Perhaps that is where ZOS should have been concentrating their efforts, rather than areas which till now have been fun for so many of us. And I do mean many...I have never lacked for company in VRs, even when I didn't want it
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Grunim✭✭✭✭✭
Those who enjoy the simplified VR Zones today will complain about the too hard VR dungeons tomorrow. So what will happen then?
The change to VR zones is to allow average skilled folks not playing specific "Best Practices" builds to be able to solo the veteran alliance quests just like these players could do the solo quests in the 1-50 areas.
In traditional MMOs, most players understand and expect the difficulty level to be increased for instanced dungeons while expecting a much easier difficulty setting for open world PvE areas.
So what will happen? Players desiring more challenge can choose to group up for veteran dungeons and those players who prefer solo play can continue to enjoy regular open world PvE and quests.
Edited by Grunim on July 7, 2014 10:41PMAm a whimsical Generation Jones gamer. Online RPGs hooked me since '94 and no sign of stopping soon...4 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Malpherian wrote: »Well honestly the bottom line is money, if making the content slightly easier, means ZOS will recover subs/retain, that's what they will do in the short term. In the long term, I think ZOS will re-balance the issue properly, and add new and better content for the more elitist hard core players.
As I said before though, Leveling should never require an elitist mentality. End game content, well, that's another matter. But there also needs to be content for the casual player base, and TES fans, which makes up the majority of the player base. If ZOS catered to the Elitist, the game would die within a month and only have a few 1000 people at most playing it.
The TES franchise is about the RP/Lore/Immersion experience, not about how difficult a Mob encounter is.
I do know there was the "newbie" slider at previous ES games, but in case you abused that slider, it doesn't mean everyone did.
I always played at Master or how this was called and it could go much higher than this. I died a lot at Skyrim, so much that I needed a companion that kept me alive, ya so much noob I am.
Still I think that ESO was about right from VR1-10, the transition from 50 - VR 1 wasn't done right maybe, but the basic 1-50 had no progression either. Mistakes were made, but they were not done in the VR zones difficulty but before and after these zones.
I also think you don't really know what an Elitist is, so please don't use the word further until you do.So what will happen? Players desiring more challenge can choose to group up for veteran dungeons and those players who prefer solo play can continue to enjoy regular open world PvE and quests.
This is not correct.
WOW works like that, not MMO´s in general!
Every MMO before WOW had a basic difficulty that was raised from zone to zone. As example, at Ultima you have mobs that just one shot you for a looong time! MMO´s are about progression, not about "do dungeons and be quiet".
That whole "go do dungeons" is a very flawed argument, MMO´s are not about dungeons they are about the open world and adventuring in that world. If this is dumped down too much, people will lose their interest in the game.
If you like it easy, do I then tell you to just do the newbie islands? No I don't, so please stop telling us to do what we don't like.Edited by Audigy on July 7, 2014 10:55PM4
