Dk chains no longer pull up keep walls?

Lettigall

Juraigr wrote: »

SC0TY999 wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

by the time they nerf DK totally they can just refund my last three months.

Soon as they nerf DK into obilivion I'm gone!

I don't know if they realise but DK's are no longer overpowered I'm seeing more NB's and Sorc at the top of the leaderboards now!!

Yep I'm.the only dk on blood eu to be in the top 10 I think it's filled with sorcs and temps

I see the need to fix the exploit but it's sad seeing dks stand on keep walls doing nothing cos we don't really have range

Those leaderboards are nothing to do with class strength. It's pure grinding,get in zerg and simply farm points all day.

As for chains, good job exploiters! Now not only you suffer but honest players also. I'm not DK and I have been killed many times by chain pulling from walls while shooting arrows. It never felt like "nerf it, nerf it into oblivion" but more like "oh, got to close to edge of wall."

nudel

Lettigall wrote: »

Juraigr wrote: »

SC0TY999 wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

by the time they nerf DK totally they can just refund my last three months.

Soon as they nerf DK into obilivion I'm gone!

I don't know if they realise but DK's are no longer overpowered I'm seeing more NB's and Sorc at the top of the leaderboards now!!

Yep I'm.the only dk on blood eu to be in the top 10 I think it's filled with sorcs and temps

I see the need to fix the exploit but it's sad seeing dks stand on keep walls doing nothing cos we don't really have range

Those leaderboards are nothing to do with class strength. It's pure grinding,get in zerg and simply farm points all day.

As for chains, good job exploiters! Now not only you suffer but honest players also. I'm not DK and I have been killed many times by chain pulling from walls while shooting arrows. It never felt like "nerf it, nerf it into oblivion" but more like "oh, got to close to edge of wall."

This was pretty much my thinking too. I never felt like DK's being able to pull people down was an issue. I always felt like it made me mindful of strategic positioning when defending, which is a good thing frankly. I wouldn't have cared about them being able to pull people up either except for the way exploiters used it to take scrolls or keeps without breaching the defenses first.

Couldn't there have been a more elegant and balanced way to plug the exploit?

dcincali

I was pulled off multiple times after the patch, I think its just bad positioning.

SBR_QuorTek

Poxheart wrote: »

It's not even worth putting a point in the skill now.

I am a DK myself... if not having the skill you miss out, it is not all about pulling people up on walls or down from them... besides as a DK your goal is to man the ram at the gate, since you can mitigate better than a sorc or NB.

I am a DK (just turned vr1 on it) myself as well alongside with NB (been vr12 for quite a bit) can jump directly to a player with my NB... and with my DK I can pull people to me.. on my NB I cannot jump up on walls in pvp and never been able to.. as it is supposed to be.

It is a fix to the DK move to not pull enemies up on purpose.. as well as not being able to jump or get up there on purpose.

Orchish

Morticielle wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

by the time they nerf DK totally they can just refund my last three months.

It's a painful thing if the overpowered class one is playing gets nerfed to a state were they are just equals and not the upper end of the food chain, isn't it? I'm amused by that.

Still DKs need a little tweaking like a CD on Reflective Scales and higher magicka cost of Dragon Blood (maybe in the same way Bolt Escape got nerfed) and DKs finally will be balanced. I love this idea!

The problem is Light armour and insane Magicka regen, not the cost of these abilities. Try playing a DK in heavy armour and tell me you can spam these abilities. you cannot. Your changes would only force the very few of us left using heavy armour to change to light armour and wield a staff like 90% of Cyrodiil currently does.

As for Reflective scales, it currently cost me 376 to cast, yet also charges me the cost of what ever the spell/bow shot i just reflected cost. This depletes your resources insanely fast, yet when you have insane Magicka regen to match it, it's not a problem.

They need to start looking at light and heavy armour before they continue to nerf DK's. I thought we could play our way? Well i want to play in heavy armour, yet as a Tank i have better survivability in light armour than i do in heavy. This sort of stuff needs to change.

Talcyndl

Tintinabula wrote: »

we have chains shooting out of our wrists..wings that deflect "spells"..banners that drop from nowhere..reality?...LUL whu?

And carrying 20 Trebuchets in our pockets?

Dleatherus

dbetterton_ESO wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

we have chains shooting out of our wrists..wings that deflect "spells"..banners that drop from nowhere..reality?...LUL whu?

And carrying 20 Trebuchets in our pockets?

oh - the 20 trebs in your pockets are easily explainable - they're inflatable

D.

Poxheart

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

It's not even worth putting a point in the skill now.

I am a DK myself... if not having the skill you miss out, it is not all about pulling people up on walls or down from them... besides as a DK your goal is to man the ram at the gate, since you can mitigate better than a sorc or NB.

That may be what you do on your DK, but I prefer roaming around the periphery of a siege killing enemy reinforcements, those that sally out of the keep to attack friendly siege, or those that ventured too close to the edge of the walls while defended.

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

I am a DK (just turned vr1 on it) myself as well alongside with NB (been vr12 for quite a bit) can jump directly to a player with my NB... and with my DK I can pull people to me.. on my NB I cannot jump up on walls in pvp and never been able to.. as it is supposed to be.

Anybody can "jump" to any enemy if they have the right weapon equipped. I remember seeing youtube footage of NBs Ambushing up walls. Not sure when that changed, but it was possible at one point in time. Probably got changed for the same reason that chains did; exploiters.

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

It is a fix to the DK move to not pull enemies up on purpose.. as well as not being able to jump or get up there on purpose.

Pulling people up isn't the issue for me, pulling people down is. It forced defenders to be careful, now they don't have to.

Cody

Orchish wrote: »

NookyZooky wrote: »

dbetterton_ESO wrote: »

The worse part is you can no longer pull OFF (ie, down from) walls. Or at least I haven't been able to since the patch last week. Made chain pull pointless.

chain pull is not only good for cheating and exploiting, it can stop someone from escaping from your awesome power.

How on earth is chain pulling an enemy who gets to close to the edge of the wall a cheat or exploit? It was a perfectly valid tactic and kept the mages/bow users cautious of DK's lurking below. I've only tried twice since the patch and both times it would not pull them down, which for me makes the skill useless as that was it's main purpose for me. If this change is indeed intended then i'd like my skill point refunded.

not what I was talking about. I meant the people using alts to pull enemies INTO a keep. I don't mind getting pull chained off of a keep. I just don't care for ppl that use alts to pull chian people INTO the keeps. unless it was a melee user who did not want to go down into the battlefield, there is no reason for someone to use pull chain to pull people onto keep walls

Mud_Puppy

Juraigr wrote: »

I've noticed after.the recent patches Dks can't pull people up walls is this a bug or bad positioning

They're trying to tweak it because it was being used to get into other factions home bases (wayshrine gates) which are still marked for pvp like the entire country. So people are getting ganked on login.

However I think that was only the original suspect...
Now everyone is saying it's part of terrain that people are using to get in these places.

I've seen screens of both methods being used for this. Once they nail down a way to stop that thing I'm sure you're pull will be back to normal.

Limitless

Few bad apples, you have to throw out the whole batch.

It sucks but I mean it was necessary in my opinion. DK's are still viable, the chain doesn't really make too much of a difference but I understand that people used it for cool things like pulling people off walls and onto walls when they were defended just to kill 'em.

Mountain_Dewed

These Emps/former from opposing sides communicating to each other, letting one another know when to leave the keep because a group of 15- v12's are coming in to destroy the attackers feels just like a DK chain ripping out my heart...

Xsorus

The fiery chain is still incredibly huge on cost....I mean when ya consider that really on a DK... a Duel Wielder would be the one that gets the most use of it since both 2 hander and 1 handed/shield have Charged.

Problem is..With full light armor, that fiery chain ability is till 301 mana cost...301 cost..That's bloody stupid....If I was in full medium its almost 400 mana...no one is going to waste 400 mana on an ability that does nothing else but pull the target..Doesn't Root, doesn't Stun, Nothing...

Tintinabula

the other morph of chains winds up your next attack to crit.(usually)

OtarTheMad

So is this confirmed that DK's can no longer pull enemies off of walls? If so that sucks, I mean I can see why you can't pull people up the walls... but pulling them down was a valid tactic to keep archers and mages off or at least keep the range attacks at a limit (as someone else mentioned). For me that pretty much means I'm not going to use this skill at all on my DK, sort of eliminates it from the game for me.

I can understand that some see DK's as still being OP... and maybe they are but the evidence says different in my opinion. What do you see more of... DK's with 2h or 1h sword and Heavy armor? Or do you see them in light armor with a destro staff? Exactly. Dragon's Blood can be annoying in pvp yeah, so maybe they up the cost of it in pvp only... that'd be fair. But nerf Reflective Scales? Come on, like someone else mentioned it only lasts 4 seconds and plenty of other skills can be used and not reflected back to you. I don't see many other things that need to be nerfed with DK's... but maybe that's just me. they are meant to be tanks... and they are no longer the top DPS class in the game with (in my opinion) Sorcs and NB's passing them. Maybe I'm wrong about that last part who knows.

Well I guess it just shows that one person can ruin it for everyone. I'd love to hear from ZOS though if this was intended that DK's can no longer pull people off of keeps if they get too far out.

Azarul

This is a terrible change. Took away a whole dynamic of keep sieging from a class. I was making a living on pulling people down to their death.

Mitharus

OtarTheMad wrote: »

So is this confirmed that DK's can no longer pull enemies off of walls? If so that sucks, I mean I can see why you can't pull people up the walls... but pulling them down was a valid tactic to keep archers and mages off or at least keep the range attacks at a limit (as someone else mentioned). For me that pretty much means I'm not going to use this skill at all on my DK, sort of eliminates it from the game for me.

Last night (CDT/GMT -0500) I was pulled down from a keep wall. So ... no, it does still work in some cases anyway.

-M

Talcyndl

Mitharus wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

So is this confirmed that DK's can no longer pull enemies off of walls? If so that sucks, I mean I can see why you can't pull people up the walls... but pulling them down was a valid tactic to keep archers and mages off or at least keep the range attacks at a limit (as someone else mentioned). For me that pretty much means I'm not going to use this skill at all on my DK, sort of eliminates it from the game for me.

Last night (CDT/GMT -0500) I was pulled down from a keep wall. So ... no, it does still work in some cases anyway.

-M

Which wall? I tried multiple times and places before giving up on it.

Infraction

SC0TY999 wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

by the time they nerf DK totally they can just refund my last three months.

Soon as they nerf DK into obilivion I'm gone!

I don't know if they realise but DK's are no longer overpowered I'm seeing more NB's and Sorc at the top of the leaderboards now!!

And almost all of them are exclusively running destro and resto staffs. Not really indicative of a class being overpowered as much as some weapons performing way better than others.

Mitharus

dbetterton_ESO wrote: »

Which wall? I tried multiple times and places before giving up on it.

IIRC, there was at a farm/lumber mill tower (one of the resources anyway). And also on, I think it was, Blue Road keep. I know I was on an outer wall of some keep, and BRK seems right...

On live if that makes a difference.

-M

TomLukman

SC0TY999 wrote: »

The ones you're talking about I have seen myself and they're using some sort of loop hole to make them practically invinsible ZOS need to look into individuals rather than nerf the whole class because as far as I'm concerned it's pretty even to other classes now (DK's that are not exploiting something that is)

There is no loop hole - a DK can put several defensive skills that make it hard to kill, which was a point of the tanking class last time I checked. That comes with the price of being only able to do low damage. A DK wishing to go high on damage has to sacrifice defense skills making him a lot easier to kill for any class - in particular nightblade with good skill rotation or sorc with their crystal shards perfectly cast timed to keep enemies permanently knocked down.

Just because you find a DK hard to kill doesn't make him OP. In fact when fighting 1 on 1 vs. defensive DK just be patient and make him run out of resources and you'll get your kill.

SBR_QuorTek

Poxheart wrote: »

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

It's not even worth putting a point in the skill now.

I am a DK myself... if not having the skill you miss out, it is not all about pulling people up on walls or down from them... besides as a DK your goal is to man the ram at the gate, since you can mitigate better than a sorc or NB.

That may be what you do on your DK, but I prefer roaming around the periphery of a siege killing enemy reinforcements, those that sally out of the keep to attack friendly siege, or those that ventured too close to the edge of the walls while defended.

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

I am a DK (just turned vr1 on it) myself as well alongside with NB (been vr12 for quite a bit) can jump directly to a player with my NB... and with my DK I can pull people to me.. on my NB I cannot jump up on walls in pvp and never been able to.. as it is supposed to be.

Anybody can "jump" to any enemy if they have the right weapon equipped. I remember seeing youtube footage of NBs Ambushing up walls. Not sure when that changed, but it was possible at one point in time. Probably got changed for the same reason that chains did; exploiters.

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

It is a fix to the DK move to not pull enemies up on purpose.. as well as not being able to jump or get up there on purpose.

Pulling people up isn't the issue for me, pulling people down is. It forced defenders to be careful, now they don't have to.

It is an issue when you have people on the let us say on your side pulling people up for takign over the keep from the inside... making you lose the keep or keeps that is far away pretty much instantly.

And as one and if well defended gate with oil and the likes, you really need some meatshields to take them on as well.. believe it or not Oil can be healed and mitigated through.

And no it doesnt force defenders to be more bold... they are still at risk by massive ranged attacks as it should be... making it not just a fear of getting in touch with the enemy from either side, whether if pulled up or down... but an extra possible skirmish added to the battle.

I don't think we need anymore cheap gameplay, I rather think we need more quality in bound... now they just need to remove the ex-emperor passives completely, to keep it more leveled.. there can only be one that should benefit from it, and that is the current emperor only.

Poxheart

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

It is an issue when you have people on the let us say on your side pulling people up for takign over the keep from the inside... making you lose the keep or keeps that is far away pretty much instantly.

You misunderstood my statement. I agree with you that cross-realmers pulling people up for the purposes of taking a keep without knocking down the walls was an exploit and it's good that that can't be done anymore.

But that came at the cost of a legitimate use of the skill (pulling defenders off the wall), which has made the skill worthless for me.

Vazkahkatz

I actually like that they can't pull you off walls. I always just used it as a "get over here" when in small battles and they were ranged attackers vs my sword and board

Sihnfahl

Vazkahkatz wrote: »

I actually like that they can't pull you off walls. I always just used it as a "get over here" when in small battles and they were ranged attackers vs my sword and board

Pulling people off walls was FUN, though. It made defenders think twice before poking their heads over the side. "Time to rain fiery, burning death from above! ... crapcrapcrapcrapcrap...."

Talcyndl

Poxheart wrote: »

You misunderstood my statement. I agree with you that cross-realmers pulling people up for the purposes of taking a keep without knocking down the walls was an exploit and it's good that that can't be done anymore.

But that came at the cost of a legitimate use of the skill (pulling defenders off the wall), which has made the skill worthless for me.

Exactly this!

Aeaeren

Poxheart wrote: »

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

It is an issue when you have people on the let us say on your side pulling people up for takign over the keep from the inside... making you lose the keep or keeps that is far away pretty much instantly.

You misunderstood my statement. I agree with you that cross-realmers pulling people up for the purposes of taking a keep without knocking down the walls was an exploit and it's good that that can't be done anymore.

But that came at the cost of a legitimate use of the skill (pulling defenders off the wall), which has made the skill worthless for me.

But I don't see this as an exploit, I keep saying over and over there are always traitors and they add an element to the game just I can't deal with them at the moment is the issue. The problem I see is allowing cross-realm toons and not allowing us to kill said traitors. Oh and chaining up to the Alliance spawn points. There is so many different ways they could have dealt with is issue but they chose the sludge hammer.

Talcyndl

Aeaeren wrote: »

But I don't see this as an exploit, I keep saying over and over there are always traitors and they add an element to the game just I can't deal with them at the moment is the issue. The problem I see is allowing cross-realm toons and not allowing us to kill said traitors. Oh and chaining up to the Alliance spawn points. There is so many different ways they could have dealt with is issue but they chose the sludge hammer.

Where (for good reasons) you can't kill your own alliance players, pulling "enemies" into your keeps is an exploit.

And even if you could figure out a way to allow killing of "traitors" that isn't itself exploited and abused, relying on players to prevent this is bound to fail. The map is simply too big to allow players to policy every possible exploit spot.

RedTalon

The best news ever, did they also fix the wayshine bug?

Rev Rielle

Dleatherus wrote: »

yup - one more thing to thank the certain emperor farmers that were using this, for a nerf that effects the entire community - hope your passives and dicking over an entire campaign were worth it to you

coming to a campaign to you soon - no more former emperor passives, and changed siege weapon game mechanics

D.

One can only hope re the emperor passives.
Personally I wish they'd get rid of the emperor mechanics of the game altogether.