Damage output...

Mystwraith

Just curious to see if anyone else is suffering with the same problem I am.

Currently questing in The Rift (VR10 area for me).

I'm a DW NB (VR9) and normally start things off with a sneak and open with surprise attack. When I get it right (which is most of the time) I have been opening with a hit for 1698 each time. Done about half a dozen quests in this area at this level.

I'm only kitted out in greens and have a spell crit of 8% and weapon crit of 27%. I know... low numbers but I'm having fun with the challenges. Sword and dagger are both blues with increase weapon & spell crit values by 2.5. This is with all VR9 gear.

Now, today I have just upgraded to VR10 gear as I have just dinged VR10. I have got exactly the same gear and weapons with the exact same enchants, etc but now I am only opening for 1596 each time on the exact same mobs that I was previously opening with higher damage. Went back to my VR9 weapons and damage output went up a notch!

What gives? One would expect a higher damage output with better weapons/gears yet I am experiencing the opposite.

Anyone else experienced similar or is it just me?

Birfreben_Kinghelred

Weapon damage doesn't influence surprise attacks damage, only spell power and magicka. It also checks against armour, despite it saying its magical damage. is it possible your new gear is giving you worse total magicka? is it possible one of your old weapons had armour/spell penetration? is it possible you had a siphoning/mages guild skill on your bar previously?(giving you + magicka)

Kewljag_66_ESO

Birfreben_Kinghelred wrote: »

Weapon damage doesn't influence surprise attacks damage, only spell power and magicka. It also checks against armour, despite it saying its magical damage. is it possible your new gear is giving you worse total magicka? is it possible one of your old weapons had armour/spell penetration? is it possible you had a siphoning/mages guild skill on your bar previously?(giving you + magicka)

I know that the melee NB class abilities are based off of weapon crit and spell power but i assumed they were based off of enemy magic resist. your saying they are based off of enemy armor?

zmanu

As far as i know, every ability with a range of 15m or less uses weapon crit and are based off of armour. The bow line being the exception, there might be more but on top of my head they mostly follow this principle.

Birfreben_Kinghelred

Concealed weapon/surprise attack is for sure checked against armour. Most siphoning spells check against spell resistance. Not sure on ambush/killers blade, or other shadow spells.

One night I was testing a bug I thought I had found in spell penetration. I used different combinations of white crafted light armour (with rank 1 concentration), medium armour, a two-hand with 6% armour/spell pen, and one without.
The spells I used to test were concealed weapon, crippling grasp, and swallow soul. All tests were on a vr6 nightblade vs vr4 dunerippers in alik'r desert.

Concealed weapon without armour penetration on weapon dealt 327, with armour penetration on weapon dealt 349. It didn't deal additional damage changing form medium to light armour. Crippling grasp and swallow soul both received a damage increase from wearing light armour and using a penetration weapon.

Since the only factor increasing damage of concealed weapon was a weapon with armour penetration. We can assume its checked against armour.

Gilvoth

if you do a test as i did youll note this thread is what will happen to you as a nightblade.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/116460/my-damage-out-put-is-inconsistant-each-time-i-logg-in-or-phase-it-changes-my-damage-out-put#latest

our class simply is weak on both damage output and also survivability compared to sorcerers and dragonights. it's a fact.

Gilvoth

i also put a suggestion in here at this thread below

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1071162/#Comment_1071162

allowing our shades to be changed from a shade into a mirror image of ourself. please take a look at what i suggested on that thread.

just to clarify ill put a quote here on this thread incase you prefer to read it here instead of going to that thread.

quote:

i would prefer that our shade would simply be a true mirror image of us and do the exact same skills and actions we do. it would definately create the balance and compensate for the lack of damage output we do and would definately increase our survivability, because, in pvp it would be kind of hard to truely know which was me or which was the mirror image that was attacking you and the true me would be able to escape if necessary.
please do this zenimax so that we would have an ability to survive and do equal damage as the dragonights and sorcerers can do in pvp


edit for clarification:
by mirror image i mean exactly that. the shade would be an exact duplicate of ourself including everything you see on us with our name and our armor and exact same weapons we use.

end quote:

Sharee

27% Melee crit is really low for a melee DW build.

I have 53%:

21% from medium armor passive
10% from the 'twin blade and blunt' passive(two daggers, 5% from each)
6% from 'precise' trait on both daggers(3% per at purple quality)
5% from thief mundus stone
6% from the 'pressure points' passive (two assassination abilities on bar)
5% from the night's silence 5-piece set bonus

It can get even higher when i slot more assassination abilities and when we own some enemy keeps in cyrodiil. I have a screenshot of character screen with 99% melee crit chance (with a potion:))

Kewljag_66_ESO

Birfreben_Kinghelred wrote: »

Concealed weapon/surprise attack is for sure checked against armour. Most siphoning spells check against spell resistance. Not sure on ambush/killers blade, or other shadow spells.

One night I was testing a bug I thought I had found in spell penetration. I used different combinations of white crafted light armour (with rank 1 concentration), medium armour, a two-hand with 6% armour/spell pen, and one without.
The spells I used to test were concealed weapon, crippling grasp, and swallow soul. All tests were on a vr6 nightblade vs vr4 dunerippers in alik'r desert.

Concealed weapon without armour penetration on weapon dealt 327, with armour penetration on weapon dealt 349. It didn't deal additional damage changing form medium to light armour. Crippling grasp and swallow soul both received a damage increase from wearing light armour and using a penetration weapon.

Since the only factor increasing damage of concealed weapon was a weapon with armour penetration. We can assume its checked against armour.

Thanks for the info

Kewljag_66_ESO

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

if you do a test as i did youll note this thread is what will happen to you as a nightblade.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/116460/my-damage-out-put-is-inconsistant-each-time-i-logg-in-or-phase-it-changes-my-damage-out-put#latest

our class simply is weak on both damage output and also survivability compared to sorcerers and dragonights. it's a fact.

I think survivability is only a factor for those that dont enchant their jewelry for it. With medium armor you can put +magic resist on your rings and go way over the soft cap. putting a + armor enchant on your neclace will put you at the armor softcap by V rank 5

I am MA and DW am currentlly V6 but even at V4 i found that i could go toe to toe with any V12. DK or Sorc. It really comes down to blocking, especially blocking sorc Shard Bolt. Strife is also good for survival. Incpacitating strike ultimate is always up and is a fight changer if you use it when you are losing, it knocks them down for 4.5 seconds and late in fights they usually dont have staminia to CC break it.

Damage output...... Very good sneak attack damage, sustained damage.... suprise attack for the armor debuff followed by flurry puts out alot of damage, its my bread and butter combo and chews threw anyone if they dont block

Gilvoth

i do not believe the things people are saying on this thread. not only are the things mentioned about survivability and critical hit's working against eachother and incapable of both occuring at the same time, thier both not using enchants and potions and skills that non of us are using. infact i would even agree that the people commenting on what they think we should do, do not even have a nightblade at all or thier trying to thrawrt and dwarf those of us who are nightblades because they truely love thier dragonight and sorcerers being able to stomp us to death.
my comments and feedback are mainly intended for the developers eyes and ears and since sending ingame tickets and feedback is not getting responces i then just come to the forums. others here on the forums may have and will have comments of opisition but the true intention of my comments is to be seen and heard by the developers

Sharee

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

infact i would even agree that the people commenting on what they think we should do, do not even have a nightblade

[edit] Hmm not clickable...

http://i.imgur.com/RpPVFn1.jpg

Mystwraith

Sharee wrote: »

27% Melee crit is really low for a melee DW build.

I have 53%:

21% from medium armor passive
10% from the 'twin blade and blunt' passive(two daggers, 5% from each)
6% from 'precise' trait on both daggers(3% per at purple quality)
5% from thief mundus stone
6% from the 'pressure points' passive (two assassination abilities on bar)
5% from the night's silence 5-piece set bonus

It can get even higher when i slot more assassination abilities and when we own some enemy keeps in cyrodiil. I have a screenshot of character screen with 99% melee crit chance (with a potion:))

Nice

I take it you are using a full set of medium armour? I'm currently running 5m 2l, so I would actually be better of going full med?

I am using a 5 piece night silence.

I've been using sword and dagger, is 2 daggers better overall?

Is Thief mundus better than Shadow?

Done some more testing today and it was strange... I managed to get some 1678 hits but most were 1596 and I thought I would get the higher hits on cloth/leather armour but I was getting the 1678 hits against heavy armoured npcs!

after seeing your post I got myself up to 33% by adding 2 more ass abilities to bar but need to revisit my attributes point distribution. How's your 12/25/12 working out? And what enchants do you add to your armour?

Cheers

Mystwraith

Birfreben_Kinghelred wrote: »

. is it possible your new gear is giving you worse total magicka? is it possible one of your old weapons had armour/spell penetration? is it possible you had a siphoning/mages guild skill on your bar previously?(giving you + magicka)

'Fraid not, as I pointed out the new gear I have is exactly the same as the lower lever gear, exact same traits and enchants yet the lower level gear was giving me better damage. My skill bar hasn't changed since I hit VR1 and has 3 DW skills, 2 ass and 1 shadow (which I have now changed today to 4 ass, 1 shadow, 1 DW)

Lyall84

Sharee wrote: »

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

infact i would even agree that the people commenting on what they think we should do, do not even have a nightblade

[edit] Hmm not clickable...

http://i.imgur.com/RpPVFn1.jpg

this...how did you do this with out shadowy disguise? Potion? Need to know build, gear, skill line up.