A community ripped to shreds.

Pupsy

Well, I know i'm new to the forums but there has been something I have noticed in zone chat and in other threads that has been bothering me. I'm not a crazy genius or some game guru who can give the solution to all of this games problems, and there are a lot of problems right now, but I think I know something that would help.

The ESO community, is ripped to pieces. People constantly arguing about everything. Bugs, patches, classes, pvp, pve, veteran rank content, etc. In fact, everyone is so split about the topics that it has caused hundreds of forum post and bug reports/complaints to be sent into Zenimax all at once. There is lag in PVP, lag in PVE, bugged quest, imbalances in classes, log out errors, etc and they are getting thousands of the reports daily, all at once. There is so much for them to fix, that I think they are getting swamped down. I know that it is their fault that these things are buggy and it is their responsibility to fix them but like people have said in these rage arguments over and over, it takes time to fix them and they're right.

We need to help zenimax in this as much as we can. I want this game to work just as i know you guys want this game to work. Elder Scrolls Online is our MMO and it will be our main MMO and damn it if we as a community or zenimax let it fail!

We need to come together as a community as start picking out problems in sequence. No more flooding zenimax with hundreds of little problems. The community and zenimax need to work together to pick one thing at a time to work on, and us as a community need to actually get our crap together and agree on what we want. If that is FPS fixes or quest fixes or whatever, It doesn't matter, but we need to make progress soon or people will start leaving and I don't want players to leave this game. I want it to live.

Down below, comment on what you think is the number one thing and first thing zenimax needs to focus on right now. No more additional content or new veteran rank whatever bull crap. We need to fix this game and create a stable foundation before we build on it or the whole thing is going to collapse down on top of everyone.

Come on guys, like it or not, we all love the idea behind this game and we are part of the community. Lets just stop all the berating and be professional and work together. We have to fix this game and we will fix it, as long as we do it together. Lets help zenimax focus all their manpower behind these problems one at a time and then we're good. Lets do it for us, the community and the game. Long Live ESO.

vyal

Fixes Before Features.

Tandor

The best advice I can give to someone new to the game is to disable zone chat and avoid the forum. That way you'll enjoy the game just fine, and by the time you reach a stage in PvE or PvP where the performance/balancing/content difficulty issues seem to arise they'll hopefully be fixed.

hasselhoffman

vyal wrote: »

Fixes Before Features.

I couldn't agree more.

Snit

How to enjoy any MMO:

- Find and join a good guild
- Turn off zone chat
- Either avoid the general section of the forums, or come armed for trolls

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Evergnar

A lot of truth in this thread. Since Zos won't seem to make any efforts to bring the community together I think @Snit 's advice is sound. Basically find a happy place.

ferzalrwb17_ESO

vyal wrote: »

Fixes Before Features.

Testing helps too.

Merlin13KAGL

Tandor wrote: »

The best advice I can give to someone new to the game is to disable zone chat and avoid the forum. That way you'll enjoy the game just fine, and by the time you reach a stage in PvE or PvP where the performance/balancing/content difficulty issues seem to arise they'll hopefully be fixed.

How incredibly sad but true...

Those of us that are genuine also feel bad having to give the above advice. I'm sure we sound like the callous ones to those that take the advice.

To those that don't listen, they soon find out why.

Nazon_Katts

Welcome to the boards!

And as soon as ZOS changes their developer to customer relationship policy, we might even have a chance to make it happen. Until then, the ostrich-like way is your safest bet on an at least somewhat undisturbed gaming experience.

ShedsHisTail

Ripped to shreds?
Really? That's a little dramatic, don'tcha think?

Gilvoth

Pupsy wrote: »

Down below, comment on what you think is the number one thing and first thing zenimax needs to focus on right now. No more additional content or new veteran rank whatever bull crap. We need to fix this game and create a stable foundation before we build on it or the whole thing is going to collapse down on top of everyone.

ok, here's mine, balance the classes so us nightblades and also the templars can do as much damage out-put and survive as long as the dragonights and sorcerers can.

Slash8915

Don't worry, OP. You'll join us "trolls" in a month or so.

NerfEverything

#1 thing they should be focusing on right now:

Refunds

SirAndy

People who enjoy the game and have a fairly bug free experience tend to not post here much.

People who have a lot of bugs and are frustrated come here looking for answers.


I don't think these forums and the overall tone in the threads is necessarily a good representation of the bulk of the ESO playerbase.
;-)

NerfEverything

Snit wrote: »

How to enjoy any MMO:

- Find and join a good guild
- Turn off zone chat
- Either avoid the general section of the forums, or come armed for trolls

Ahh I see you have adopted Zen's "Head in the sand, fingers in your ears, keep humming and pretend every thing is great" strategy.

Eventually you will find you are the only one left, standing there, telling yourself everything is still fine.

Pupsy

Thank you all for your comments. I can see how turning off zone chat and finding a guild would be nice but my main point is we need to work together to get these problems fixed. The main issue isn't the people because you can't fix idiots and trolls, but you can fix a buggy game. Pick one issue at a time and let zenimax work on that. We all just need to decide what to push for.

Alphashado

There is much wisdom in what you say OP. In a perfect world, that is what we should strive for. Comments like yours can sometimes tip the scales a bit in one direction or the other.

That being said though, Human nature is human nature. Man has been arguing, bickering, fighting, killing each other ever since we were smart enough to pick up a rock and throw it at another man.

When times are good, peace and harmony are much easier to achieve. When times are bad, the worst human attributes rise to the surface.

I have been reading and posting on forums like this for 20+ years. Some are better than others, but this is nothing new. Any time mankind has a platform in which to speak their mind, they will. And when there is little to no consequence for being rude or offensive, then people will use that platform to speak their mind with little fear of retribution.

The game is in rough shape and there are many upset customers. I applaud your effort. I truly do. But at the end of the day, your words will be naught but a drop of water in the pond.

Fairydragon3

Alphashado wrote: »

There is much wisdom in what you say OP. In a perfect world, that is what we should strive for. Comments like yours can sometimes tip the scales a bit in one direction or the other.

That being said though, Human nature is human nature. Man has been arguing, bickering, fighting, killing each other ever since we were smart enough to pick up a rock and throw it at another man.

When times are good, peace and harmony are much easier to achieve. When times are bad, the worst human attributes rise to the surface.

I have been reading and posting on forums like this for 20+ years. Some are better than others, but this is nothing new. Any time mankind has a platform in which to speak their mind, they will. And when there is little to no consequence for being rude or offensive, then people will use that platform to speak their mind with little fear of retribution.

The game is in rough shape and there are many upset customers. I applaud your effort. I truly do. But at the end of the day, your words will be naught but a drop of water in the pond.

"War......War never changes"

Audigy

Down below, comment on what you think is the number one thing and first thing zenimax needs to focus on right now.

They need to split the rendering from 1 main thread to at least two or three. It did wonders to WOW and this is an old game.

As soon they did that about 90% of the performance issue´s will be gone.

After this I would start with improving the game by adding or changing new features. To me it doesn't make sense to do that first, as the game requires a performance update rather than a feature update.

Most players are not even in the VR zones, therefore adding new ones wont help a majority but a vocal minority.

NerfEverything wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

How to enjoy any MMO:

- Find and join a good guild
- Turn off zone chat
- Either avoid the general section of the forums, or come armed for trolls

There are a lot of whiny little self-important gits in the world's basements, and every single one plays MMO's.

Ahh I see you have adopted Zen's "Head in the sand, fingers in your ears, keep humming and pretend every thing is great" strategy.

Eventually you will find you are the only one left, standing there, telling yourself everything is still fine.

There is a lot right in what he said.

MMO´s have a very hostile community since about WOTLK when all that mess started to appear. You can argue if that whiny and self entitled MMO crowd was made by Blizz or if its just a matter of todays standards among humans - but it wasn't like that at Ultima, DAOC or Vanilla WOW.

If you really want to enjoy an MMO, then a guild is the way to go. You just can not rely on randoms anymore if you want to play casually after you get home from work. Too many people are stressed out for whatever reason and will ruin your gaming experience as much as they can.

OccultOverload

vyal wrote: »

Fixes Before Features.

Well fracking said.

yodased

They really need to fix the interior lighting in the game. Other than that, nothing wrong.

Mud_Puppy

vyal wrote: »

Fixes Before Features.

Pay this man

Tandor

Pupsy wrote: »

Pick one issue at a time and let zenimax work on that. We all just need to decide what to push for.

Ignoring the reality that different teams work on different things, and taking your point literally, I would say performance.

If people can't log in or stay logged in then all the balancing fixes and additional content in the world won't alter the fact that they aren't playing. This is a new game, it's still very early days, and all new MMOs have teething troubles (as is evident with that other game that was going to show TESO how it is done but the devs are too busy banning accounts for botting). There's plenty of time for the other stuff. Let's get people into the game first. Then it's down to the players to show some patience and understanding.

WebBull

No forum is great, but in general, forums are a reflection of the game itself. The better game the better the forum atmosphere. The worse the game, the worse the forum.

vyal wrote: »

Fixes Before Features.

This should go in everyone's sig line.

Reevster

vyal wrote: »

Fixes Before Features.

Sadly the Features are always going to be top priority as its what they use to advertise the game, if you notice the last Add campaign was praising the new Lighting features and the new loot-able weapons etc etc oh but I think it mentions something of "fixs" on the last line somewhere.......its all about marketing.

Pupsy

Again, thanks everyone for the post. I do believe in fixes before features. If they release another content update before a bug patch.. well.. I don't know much we can do after that.

I also had another question for you guys since everyone has seemed decently level headed so far. What are your guys/gals opinions on reimbursement for poor game quality and or unplayable game quality. Do you guys feel like we should be given a month of free game time or that Zenimax should make the game free until they fix the issues? I am not agreeing with this, I'm just asking for insight.

Sylvyr

Sure zone chat and forums can have a lot of fat in it but advice to ignore these things is kind of like a bury your head in the sand approach. Missing out on the beat and feel of the community. For some I guess that would work just to try to focus on the bright sunny side of things as a stop gap measure. But MMOs are built, influenced, and driven by community. Yeah, a lot of people are upset and it's making a lot of noise but realize that disconnecting is just that, disconnecting.

IMHO ZOS needs to focus on fixes and not features. Bugs, balancing, performance - those are core and should be the priority.

PS. While upset subscribers do make a lot of noise bear in mind

1) It's likely management is responsible for direction and allocation of resources - while I don't know the internal org structure of ZOS that's usually how it works. Sometimes management loses touch with the pulse of the customers they or their product serves. Sometimes it takes a lot of noise to become loud or serious enough to go through the corporate chain, break through the layers, and reach the penthouse - depending on how isolated or bubbled they are.

2) There's been a lot of issues since before release that are functionally bugged or broken and a lot of people are scratching their heads wondering what decision making is being made to allocate resources to nice but non core things like lighting effects as opposed to allocating those resources into core issues. And as they continue to do this, it may just give off the impression that they are not hearing and thus the people that are upset grow unsettled and louder.

3) Upset subscribers are met with walls when complaining/giving feedback in an upset way (which a lot of people just do) - forum posts closed/deleted, community members telling them to shut up or go somewhere else, etc. This can add to the whole "we're not being heard they are a train on their own tracks" feeling of disempowerment and frustration and just add more fuel to the fire.

4) Yes, you can tell people to relax, you can tell them not to be upset, you can tell them this is in some range of "normal" and just be patient - guess what though, a lot of people (possibly a majority?) aren't patient and are upset and just want to play for something they paid for -now- and don't see the long term "investment" - and in an MMO as opposed to single player games, those people, very much so, pay to keep the game alive and without them... well it's basic economics of supply and demand. Demand goes down, supply goes down, and maybe just cut if it can't meet or exceed a floor value needed for sustainability and profit.

Not saying what's going on in the community is pleasant, wish it was all roses, but I can understand a bit of why it's happening but can't agree on giving advice to ignore what's going on in the community on the contrary maybe more people should take time to participate in the community and help build it.

vyal

"Don't eat your seed corn" - Not a Marketer

Gilvoth

Pupsy wrote: »

Again, thanks everyone for the post. I do believe in fixes before features. If they release another content update before a bug patch.. well.. I don't know much we can do after that.

I also had another question for you guys since everyone has seemed decently level headed so far. What are your guys/gals opinions on reimbursement for poor game quality and or unplayable game quality. Do you guys feel like we should be given a month of free game time or that Zenimax should make the game free until they fix the issues? I am not agreeing with this, I'm just asking for insight.

no, not at all, i dont see any reason for a free month of eso.
eso is a great game it just needs balanced and fixed.

Pupsy

Sylvyr wrote: »

3) Upset subscribers are met with walls when complaining/giving feedback in an upset way (which a lot of people just do) - forum posts closed/deleted, community members telling them to shut up or go somewhere else, etc. This can add to the whole "we're not being heard they are a train on their own tracks" feeling of disempowerment and frustration and just add more fuel to the fire.

Yeah, well said. I see a lot of people bring up problems and get flooded with things like "If you don't like it then don't play" or "get over it baby". I guess people don't realize that players don't want to just give up on the game. Lots of people love this game, including most of us. We want to see it fixed, not just leave it for good. That's why I think people get so upset sometimes, cause the game is important to them or they really enjoy it.

Exarch

Par for the MMO course, certainly worse than the '04-'05 era City of Heroes which was the happiest community I ever expect to see, but better than most periods of WoW, and way better than Age of Conan, or later Warhammer Online.