The biggest difference between this MMO and TES: Zones.

SFBryan18

If we think about the maps in past TES, we will remember it as a realistic world where you could go where you want and do what you want. And we will remember the hundreds of visits to every town after several different quests sending you there. This made the character feel more like he was in a real place, and not just on some one way treadmill to Cyrodil.

The problem with zones is the realization that after you finish one and move on, that zone no longer has any purpose. It's a lower level and has nothing left to do. This is a huge change from what TES is supposed to be and it is the biggest cause of the game becoming worthless after you finish everything. What kept Oblivion and Skyrim alive was not the addition of more difficult quests, but instead a series of immersive quests that lead your character all around the world to places they had passed through before. This allowed you to look at the fabulous views of these locations, from the tops of mountains to the bottom of some sewer that you just want to get out of alive.

After completing Glenumbra, I feel like it is a shame I will never really have to travel through that map again. It was such a beautiful map, and I expect the zones ahead to be just as beautiful, but feel like the exact same thing will happen to all of them. A one way treadmill through every land, and then you never come back. The problem obviously has to do with the ridiculous leveling gimmick that MMO's use to suck people in.

In TES, the game was about immersing yourself in the world and living a story. In this MMO, the focus is not about the story, but more about reaching some high level so you can go to Cyrodil and fight against real players. Of course we could go before we beat everything, but who really wants to be handicapped in a fight? And that's the gimmick that keeps you pushing forward on the treadmill. The MMO genre has focused more on this gimmick than on the story, which is inevitably why so many MMO fans have jumped from one to the next while TES fans have played the same game over and over.

Story is much more important than leveling. It is clear that the focus of the new zones will be to add new veteran content, so players who reached the end of the line can push forward on that one way treadmill, but I believe this is a huge mistake. Role playing games are not successful because of treadmills, they are successful because of storyline. And in an MMO, that story involves a group. I should not have to reach some ridiculously high level cap to play quests with other people. I should be able to go to any part of the world and play any quest available.

How would this be possible? The answer is obvious. If we look at public dungeons and Cyrodil, they simply solve this by scaling everything to level 50. I think this should be how the entire map is scaled. No matter how far you go, or what you unlock, every area should be scaled to the same difficulty. This not only will allow you to go back and help friends with old quests without being bored, but it sets up the possibility for new quests in old zones.

Maybe I don't know too much about MMO's, but I did play both Oblivion and Skyrim for over a thousand hours each, and I know that neither of those games felt like a pointless treadmill. Please give your thoughts on this topic.

SystemiK

I completely agree with you and would love to see that implemented, but this cake has already been baked. They would have to practically throw it out and start over at this point...

Bloodfang

Sure in Skyrim you could wander anywhere you wanted, but that didn't mean you wouldn't get stomped by a Giant until you leveled up significantly.

However I do understand you, it's really a shame when we're done with the zone there is no reason to go back anymore (but I'm still pretty sure there wasn't any location in Skyrim that I wanted to visit multiple times anyway..or in Oblivion those portals , that was just the worst part of the game). Perhaps someday we will get whole Tamriel open.

I disagree about the quests though, I feel much more immersed in ESO than I was in Skyrim, and it's simple really - I don't find Civil Wars interesting at all, and Thieves Guild just wasn't on par with the Oblivion one either. For me ESO has a wide variety of really good written quests.

So no if you wanna get immersed in the world, DO NOT RUSH! Why would you want to rush just to be competitive in PvP seriously? Other MMOs might be rushing to the Max Level as soon as possible, ESO just isn't one of them - this is the very reason why I prefer it over the others.

KariTR

I'm hoping when housing is implemented, we will be able to choose from any of the zones in our faction, cost permitting. Think about the day in the future when you can retire to Glenumbra and spend lots of quality time there, at home with your own crafting stations and weekly trips to the nearest settlement.

ebondeath

After seeing several posts of the same opinion, I've concluded that I'm in the minority in liking linear questing. I like ESO's in particular because while there's definitely a main thread to follow throughout each zone, I can do the side quests in any order and come back to find that I've completed some sub-objective for the main quest sometimes without realizing it. I like doing a clockwise sweep of the zone and being done with everything by the time I get to the other side.

I like the structure and every time I replay quests on an alt I always do quests in the same systematic order, whether I'm pushed into it by the game's questing mechanics or not. At the same time, I still feel like I have that sandbox option so I don't feel like I'm rigidly locked into questing that way, I just choose to be. Maybe not as big of a sandbox as Oblivion or Skyrim, but I kind of like this better. Makes me feel like my character's progressing.

I agree with you on zone replayability as a whole, though. I like having npcs acknowledge my lower level deeds, but it would be nice if the zone evolved to show changes as a result of my efforts (like Camlorn being rebuilt, for example).

Dissenting opinion aside, I enjoyed your post.

yodased

To clarify Cyrodil is tuned for VR5 not lvl 50. Your character can be upleveled to the STATS of VR1 if you are lvl 10-49.

SFBryan18

yodased wrote: »

To clarify Cyrodil is tuned for VR5 not lvl 50. Your character can be upleveled to the STATS of VR1 if you are lvl 10-49.

After level 49, the player doesn't get any stronger though, right?

yodased

Correct, if you are VR1+ your stats are the same in/out of Cyrodil.

SFBryan18

yodased wrote: »

Correct, if you are VR1+ your stats are the same in/out of Cyrodil.

Ok, so my suggestion is to scale all zones and players to that. Leveling would just be for improving your skills and specializing your characters attributes.This would resemble how TES scales the enemies to the players level, but it would be the players that are scaled until they finish their attributes. The idea focuses one being able to go to any part of your faction and play any quests you want instead of being put on a treadmill in one direction. I do think it is probably much too late to do this, but I think it makes sense.

Sihnfahl

SFBryan18 wrote: »

After level 49, the player doesn't get any stronger though, right?

Well, only if you keep going and define 'stronger' as 'having more skill points to play with'.

RazielSR

True OP. One of the things you notice in ESO is the lack of real land,real terrain,real zones. And that will never change. As said here,this cake is baked.

SFBryan18

Sihnfahl wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

After level 49, the player doesn't get any stronger though, right?

Well, only if you keep going and define 'stronger' as 'having more skill points to play with'.

Well, armor, enchantments, potions, and other high level things would obviously also make you stronger, but I am referring to the base health of a naked player vs a naked NPC. Scaling to the last attribute level would make all zones playable to everyone. What they could do for VR zones is just give NPC's better equipment which would make them stronger, and like the group dungeons, they could just add a lot more NPC's to fight.

And again, I know it's probably too late, but it's just an idea.

Evergnar

Couldn't agree more with OP. If there were one thing and one thing only I could change about ESO it would be the Zone leveling system. It's like experiencing the world of Tamriel from a train window.

There was a much more dynamic approach Zos could have taken that would have allowed multiple leveled quests and areas per zone and/or a different approach to instancing. This also would have kept players in closer proximity rather than the current system which just spreads everyone out.

Unfortunately I see no way to fix this now so I can only hope they continue developing Cyrodiil and future content in a more dynamic non linear way. I want to have a reason not only to revisit places but to stick around and hang out there as well.

R1ckyDaMan

They should of just made the world like skyrim, and made inns and taverns player hubs to group up if you choose to..

Too many compromises because mmo tbh.

Mordria

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Snip

That would be great. In fact awesome. I don't see how they could make a change like that at this point though.

Enkil

Wish they had taken a more open and free approach from the get go. It's like they started with some MMO template and gave it some Elder Scrolls lore and flavor. They should have started with Elder Scrolls template and gave it MMO flavor. Could have done some truly innovative and exciting things.

Maleficus

Co op Skyrim FTW

Tabbycat

Are there any themepark MMOs that don't have leveled zones?

driosketch

I kind of have to agree. Maybe in a future content update, that could give the home faction the Cyrodiil treatment, add some random Inn quests, and maybe update the towns post rebuilding from the action. Then you could level your VR character in your home faction while still getting to see all the NPC friends you made.

badmojo

I had a similar idea about repopulating old zones with VR enemies.

Srugzal

Part of the answer to this is crafting, especially world crafting station sets. Sometimes you have to travel a bit to these crafting locations. Also there's the matter of materials gathering, especially for Alchemy, which are not level-specific (other than the reagents, of course). Even gathering and refining lower-level materials (like iron and maple) will give you refinement materials and xp for your crafters.

There's also the public dungeons and the world bosses, not to mention Dolmens, that are fun to go back for. For these you may not get mob xp, but you get achievement xp. I often go on these crafting and materials gathering trips.

Even though the experience is really nothing like an ES game, you can go back and get both utility and enjoyment from lower level zones. Besides, where else are you able to show off your awesome armor to newbies? ;-)

AlexDougherty

SystemiK wrote: »

I completely agree with you and would love to see that implemented, but this cake has already been baked. They would have to practically throw it out and start over at this point...

Yes, this is a theme-park MMO to have open exploration, which is the hallmark of sandbox MMOs they would need to scrap the entire game and start again. Which would take about six/seven years.

SFBryan18

Well, they F'd up then. Unlike a roller coaster at a theme park, riding this game again will not hold the same excitement. This is why sandboxes are much better. Every character can follow the quests however they want, instead of being forced to go in one direction.

Kajoh_Americano

My first TES character ever was a Khajiit on Morrowind. I was baffled when I realized I couldn't wear shoes, so I made it my mission to keep the boots of all the enemies I slain and store them in my house / random building I murdered the owner of in Balmorra.

Nothing will ever top this top notch gaming experience. But I knew that going into future TES games and especially ESO. I like this MMO a lot but I have to be honest and say that if it wasn't for the IP and AvA, I wouldn't even be playing it. Still though this has the marking of a good game...if they could get their act together and throw the much needed fixes it needs.

Hypertionb14_ESO

There was zoning in the last 2 TES games too... any building, cave and some large towns...

SFBryan18

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

There was zoning in the last 2 TES games too... any building, cave and some large towns...

Actually, all areas in previous single player TES were scaled to the players level. No matter where you went, the difficulty was the same and based on the options you set. Obviously an MMO needs different rules, but they didn't have to separate the zones by level. That was a development choice to do a theme park instead of a sandbox, likely for the MMO fanbase, and it is a huge difference from previous TES games.