International Date Format for English (Int'l)

Enodoc

This is a bit of a nit-pick, but since it hasn't been addressed in the recent theme change on the main site I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Since there are separate versions of the main site for "English (US)" and "English (Int'l)", please could the date format for English (Int'l) use the International date standard DD/MM/YYYY rather than the American one? The international standard is already used for the French and German versions, and since the US is the only place which uses MM.DD.YYYY, this is not appropriate for the International version.

isengrimb16_ESO

Frankly, I think it'd be less confusing if we all used military date/time.

27 Jun 2014, that's today. No confusion.

Swordguy

We use DD/MM/YYYY in Canada as well. Pretty sure it's mostly U.S. that prefers month first. I second OPs request.

Crumpy

Why month, then day then year - I've never understood that!

Sakiri

It throws me off when I see it and dont catch it immediately because while I personally use DD.MM.YY(more often spelling the month out because it looks nicer and confuses less) the rest of America doesnt.

I also use a 24 hour clock. But eh.

isengrimb16_ESO

Crumpy wrote: »

Why month, then day then year - I've never understood that!

Never understood the drive toward blind digitization myself.

Never understood the blind rush Canada had for metric either, when the USA had no intention of introducing it (and the idea of us "leading the way" was laughable). Even now, we have containers with weird numbers, because they're Standard/Imperial, with dumb-donkey metric numbers to describe them. The USA is, and hopefully always will be, our largest trading partner. Gods forbid we come under the thumb of China - Harper, beware!


I'm of British extraction, the French system can go hang. The only reason we got metric shoved down our throats is because Pierre Elliot Trudeau hated all things Anglo.

As far as "oh, but Imperial is hard" goes, I can do math without taking my shoes and socks off. Metric was invented by the French, so there you go.

Maverick827

Crumpy wrote: »

Why month, then day then year - I've never understood that!

The way dates are most commonly spoken in America is "June 27th, 2014," so that's the order the numbers are written in.

Samadhi

Swordguy wrote: »

We use DD/MM/YYYY in Canada as well. Pretty sure it's mostly U.S. that prefers month first. I second OPs request.

Yes we do. The messed up format is certainly not a "North America" thing.
I support this suggestion.

Enodoc

Samadhi wrote: »

Swordguy wrote: »

We use DD/MM/YYYY in Canada as well. Pretty sure it's mostly U.S. that prefers month first. I second OPs request.

Yes we do. The messed up format is certainly not a "North America" thing.
I support this suggestion.

My apologies to Canadians for my ignorance in lumping you into "North America". I changed the original post to "the US" instead :P

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

Frankly, I think it'd be less confusing if we all used military date/time.

27 Jun 2014, that's today. No confusion.

Yes that would work too

Swordguy

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

Crumpy wrote: »

Why month, then day then year - I've never understood that!

Never understood the drive toward blind digitization myself.

Never understood the blind rush Canada had for metric either, when the USA had no intention of introducing it (and the idea of us "leading the way" was laughable). Even now, we have containers with weird numbers, because they're Standard/Imperial, with *** metric numbers to describe them.


I'm of British extraction, the French system can go hang. The only reason we got metric shoved down our throats is because Pierre Elliot Trudeau hated all things Anglo.

Because a cubic centimeter (mL) of water at sea level = 1 gram, which freezes at 0 degrees Celsius, and boils at 100. It takes 1 calorie (technically 1000 calories) to raise the temperature of 1 Kilogram (1000 grams) of water by 1 degree Celsius.

also, the Imperial system we used before switching differed in some ways to US measurement system. i.e - US Gal = 3.79 liters, Imperial Gallon = 4.40 Liters, which made trading with US companies no less frustrating.

isengrimb16_ESO

Enodoc wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Swordguy wrote: »

We use DD/MM/YYYY in Canada as well. Pretty sure it's mostly U.S. that prefers month first. I second OPs request.

Yes we do. The messed up format is certainly not a "North America" thing.
I support this suggestion.

My apologies to Canadians for my ignorance in lumping you into "North America". I changed the original post to "the US" instead :P

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

Frankly, I think it'd be less confusing if we all used military date/time.

27 Jun 2014, that's today. No confusion.

Yes that would work too

I always sign/date stuff that way. I also photocopy all money orders I buy for rent, before handing them over. But that's just me.

hk11

The MM/DD/YYYY format is superior, unfortunately.

isengrimb16_ESO

Swordguy wrote: »

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

Crumpy wrote: »

Why month, then day then year - I've never understood that!

Never understood the drive toward blind digitization myself.

Never understood the blind rush Canada had for metric either, when the USA had no intention of introducing it (and the idea of us "leading the way" was laughable). Even now, we have containers with weird numbers, because they're Standard/Imperial, with *** metric numbers to describe them.


I'm of British extraction, the French system can go hang. The only reason we got metric shoved down our throats is because Pierre Elliot Trudeau hated all things Anglo.

Because a cubic centimeter (mL) of water at sea level = 1 gram, which freezes at 0 degrees Celsius, and boils at 100. It takes 1 calorie (technically 1000 calories) to raise the temperature of 1 Kilogram (1000 grams) of water by 1 degree Celsius.

also, the Imperial system we used before switching differed in some ways to US measurement system. i.e - US Gal = 3.79 liters, Imperial Gallon = 4.40 Liters, which made trading with US companies no less frustrating.

I share the opinion of Isaac Asimov. The metric system is meant for scientists, particularly chemists, who work with water a lot. The 0-100 Celsius system is nice for them. However, the Fahrenheit system is more "human". The man in question got his 0 degrees by loading as much ice into his Scandanavian workshop, and getting things as cold as normally possible. Now, 0F = 18C - for Europe, that's about as cold as it gets, usually.

I spent one winter in Fort Nelson, BC, where it was around -30-40 (who cares about scale at those temps) for three months straight. When it rose up to -20 C in .. oh, late March, early April - it was notice-able.

As far as physical measurement goes, I can say that carpentry is much easier with the fractions of Imperial than it is with the silly huge numbers of metric. I don't know of any carpenter - carpenters' helper that mucks around with stupid metric; nor mechanics, unless they have to.

Sakiri

@hk11 when I see your name all I can think of are these things.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=phG9x2hsj5Q

Reference?

Swordguy

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

Swordguy wrote: »

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

Crumpy wrote: »

Why month, then day then year - I've never understood that!

Never understood the drive toward blind digitization myself.

Never understood the blind rush Canada had for metric either, when the USA had no intention of introducing it (and the idea of us "leading the way" was laughable). Even now, we have containers with weird numbers, because they're Standard/Imperial, with *** metric numbers to describe them.


I'm of British extraction, the French system can go hang. The only reason we got metric shoved down our throats is because Pierre Elliot Trudeau hated all things Anglo.

Because a cubic centimeter (mL) of water at sea level = 1 gram, which freezes at 0 degrees Celsius, and boils at 100. It takes 1 calorie (technically 1000 calories) to raise the temperature of 1 Kilogram (1000 grams) of water by 1 degree Celsius.

also, the Imperial system we used before switching differed in some ways to US measurement system. i.e - US Gal = 3.79 liters, Imperial Gallon = 4.40 Liters, which made trading with US companies no less frustrating.

I share the opinion of Isaac Asimov. The metric system is meant for scientists, particularly chemists, who work with water a lot. The 0-100 Celsius system is nice for them. However, the Fahrenheit system is more "human". The man in question got his 0 degrees by loading as much ice into his Scandanavian workshop, and getting things as cold as normally possible. Now, 0F = 18C - for Europe, that's about as cold as it gets, usually.

I spent one winter in Fort Nelson, BC, where it was around -30-40 (who cares about scale at those temps) for three months straight. When it rose up to -20 C in .. oh, late March, early April - it was notice-able.

As far as physical measurement goes, I can say that carpentry is much easier with the fractions of Imperial than it is with the silly huge numbers of metric. I don't know of any carpenter - carpenters' helper that mucks around with stupid metric; nor mechanics, unless they have to.

totally agreed. I actually use both and was taught both through school. Not sure about the younger generations, but I will never measure myself in centimeters, or weigh myself in Kilograms... its too unnatural.

so in that regard, you are totally correct.

Crumpy

hk11 wrote: »

The MM/DD/YYYY format is superior, unfortunately.

No it's silly

hk11

Sakiri wrote: »

@hk11 when I see your name all I can think of are these things.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=phG9x2hsj5Q

Reference?

that's it

SirAndy

Crumpy wrote: »

Why month, then day then year - I've never understood that!

@Crumpy
Because everything is bigger in the US.
You can't cross it in a day, so putting the moth first gives you more time.

Two strangers meet somewhere in Texas:

Q: Howdy, do you know what time is it?
A: June

;-)

isengrimb16_ESO

SirAndy wrote: »

Crumpy wrote: »

Why month, then day then year - I've never understood that!

@Crumpy
Because everything is bigger in the US.
You can't cross it in a day, so putting the moth first gives you more time.

Two strangers meet somewhere in Texas:

Q: Howdy, do you know what time is it?
A: June

;-)

Sounds like a joke I once heard long ago about a couple of Europeans who kept calling in to a motel in California to change the date of their stay. Well, it isn't so much a joke as a true story told by the desk-clerk; it seems they landed in New York and wanted to drive to Cali to see the sights, but didn't realize how wide North America really is.

That being said, when I was still living in Windsor, Ontario (the place with giant rats and horrible water, just across the river from Detroit, ***, ***), I was called aside by some American in his Michigan-plated car.

He wanted to know how to get to Vancouver. He'd heard it had nice gardens ... and wanted to have a picnic lunch there.

I gave him the directions, and he looked at me like I was either ***, or having a joke on him.

The directions were as follows: "Follow this road, Ouellette Ave, until it turns into the 401. Follow that until Toronto, then turn North on the 400. Turn left when you hit Sudbury. Then follow the Trans-Can for four or five days, watch the signs, you'll be in Vancouver."

I guess he had no sense of scale.

Enodoc

hk11 wrote: »

The MM/DD/YYYY format is superior, unfortunately.

It isn't really, it's systematically illogical and is used by less than 10% of the world's population. But that's not the point here. The point is that they should be using the International date format on the English (Int'l) version of the site, and the US date format only on the English (US) version of the site.

Chatoyancy

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

Frankly, I think it'd be less confusing if we all used military date/time.

27 Jun 2014, that's today. No confusion.

Agree -- even though I am American, I still use that date format for everything. Since the month and day can be reversed depending on where you are, when communicating on the internet, it makes much more sense to get rid of the ambiguity.

Ojustaboo

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

As far as physical measurement goes, I can say that carpentry is much easier with the fractions of Imperial than it is with the silly huge numbers of metric. I don't know of any carpenter - carpenters' helper that mucks around with stupid metric; nor mechanics, unless they have to.

I use both (in UK)

Imperial mainly, but if say I'm measuring for something to fit exactly, if it doesn't fit on my tape measures imperial line, I use the mm on the opposite edge.

If doing metal lathe work, metric all the time.

Most people I know do the same, imperial and switch to mm if needed, often having say the width of something in imperial and the length in metric

Thinking about it most people I speak to also swap how they say the date. For instance sometimes I refer to my birthday as "May 26th" and other times as "26th May" with zero consistently or reasoning for changing how I say it.

Swordguy

Ojustaboo wrote: »

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

As far as physical measurement goes, I can say that carpentry is much easier with the fractions of Imperial than it is with the silly huge numbers of metric. I don't know of any carpenter - carpenters' helper that mucks around with stupid metric; nor mechanics, unless they have to.

I use both (in UK)

Imperial mainly, but if say I'm measuring for something to fit exactly, if it doesn't fit on my tape measures imperial line, I use the mm on the opposite edge.

If doing metal lathe work, metric all the time.

Most people I know do the same, imperial and switch to mm if needed, often having say the width of something in imperial and the length in metric

Thinking about it most people I speak to also swap how they say the date. For instance sometimes I refer to my birthday as "May 26th" and other times as "26th May" with zero consistently or reasoning for changing how I say it.

In Canada we have the same, where our rulers/tapes have both. in terms of carpentry, it is still imperial here with fractions (even though a treated 2x4 isn't actually 2x4'' lol), and pretty much anything that falls into the Trades is metric free as well.

as far as dates go, 27th of June feels much more grammatically correct (not sure if it actually is), then june 27th. the latter seems to be indicating that June is a minor number, while the main subject is the 27th. When I say the 27th of June, I feel as though more weight is being given to June, as opposed to the day.

Thistlegoat

Just as an fyi, the international standard date format (part of ISO 8601) is actually YYYY-MM-DD. I've been using it for several years now, and I like it very much.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601

And the obligatory xkcd comic, which has helped spread the word:

xkcd.com/1179/

All that said, I think folks should use whatever they're comfortable with. But when talking about international standards, I figure it's useful to mention what the standard actually is!

Rosveen

Metric is superior because it allows you to convert units in a matter of seconds. Everything follows the same rules, has the same prefixes, you immediately know how the number you see relates to smaller and bigger units. Imperial? Don't even bother.

How many meters in 2632 kilometers? 2632000.
How many inches in 2632 feet? Let me take out my calculator...

SirAndy

Rosveen wrote: »

Metric is superior because it allows you to convert units in a matter of seconds. Everything follows the same rules, has the same prefixes, you immediately know how the number you see relates to smaller and bigger units. Imperial? Don't even bother.

How many meters in 2632 kilometers? 2632000.
How many inches in 2632 feet? Let me take out my calculator...

Exactly. Many people don't realize how easy the metric system really is.
No math needed, just move the decimal point.

To make your example even more interesting:

How many meters in 2632.386 kilometers? 2632386
How many inches in 2632.386 feet? ...

How many kilometers are 1475886 meters? 1475.886 kilometers?
How many feet are 1475886 inches? ...

Enodoc

Thistlegoat wrote: »

Just as an fyi, the international standard date format (part of ISO 8601) is actually YYYY-MM-DD. I've been using it for several years now, and I like it very much.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601

And the obligatory xkcd comic, which has helped spread the word:

xkcd.com/1179/

All that said, I think folks should use whatever they're comfortable with. But when talking about international standards, I figure it's useful to mention what the standard actually is!

Bad wording on my part then. What I meant was the "format used as standard in English speaking countries internationally" rather than the "international standard". :P

I would accept either YYYY-MM-DD or DD/MM/YYYY as long as we can get rid of the US standard which should only be on the US pages.

Kiwi

theres sun time and theres moon time
its either working or its not
time is an irrelevant concept enforced by the swiss to make everybody late

Enodoc

I had hoped they may have looked at this when they overhauled the website for TU, but apparently not.

I would like to see either YYYY-MM-DD or DD/MM/YYYY used on English (Int'l) pages and news articles, as MM.DD.YYYY is a US standard which should only be on the US pages.

Lithium Flower

I agree with the OP. Also further in the same vein, when announcing time for Europe Maintenance and Update, could ZOS please use the GMT or UTC time zone as those are internationally recognized universal conventions rather than whatever the hell BST is. I have no idea what time maintenance actually happens, only that the gremlins work their magic sometime during the night.