No freespec?

Sleestak

With all these changes to classes you would think they would have given a free respec or at least refunded the points in the skills that were changed....

NewBlacksmurf

Why all the changes increase dmg, duration or work as intended.
If u chose those skills they work a lot better.

Why respec?

Cogo

And another respec when they fix and balance next week?

Common, balancing is ongoing and happening all the time.
You picked your skills. IF you picked them ONLY cause today they where good/not good, then you pay for your own choice.

Sleevez340

Cogo wrote: »

IF you picked them ONLY cause today they where good/not good, then you pay for your own choice.

If you pay for something as a consumer. And that product/service is no longer what you payed for because its changed. You get a refund, this is basic customer service. It doesnt matter what format the currency is.

Mortosk

Sleestak wrote: »

With all these changes to classes you would think they would have given a free respec or at least refunded the points in the skills that were changed....

You didn't really think the same Zenimax that charges people 146 gold for getting stuck would give us a free skill reset did you?

Cogo

Sleevez340 wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

IF you picked them ONLY cause today they where good/not good, then you pay for your own choice.

If you pay for something as a consumer. And that product/service is no longer what you payed for because its changed. You get a refund, this is basic customer service. It doesnt matter what format the currency is.

And they do. When they make a mistake like the Vampire skill and bash skill. The players who put points there, got them back.

ESO is a skill based game, which means constant balancing.
I am sorry if you did not know that......

Soothy

Cogo wrote: »

ESO is a skill based game, which means constant balancing.
I am sorry if you did not know that......

Actually it is a class based game but you know, swings and roundabouts.

ozgod22_eso

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Why all the changes increase dmg, duration or work as intended.
If u chose those skills they work a lot better.

Why respec?

I think he is talking about respeccing to a morph that was changed to be better than the one currently selected. For example, they changed Dark Deal so that it a) can be used while moving and b) removed the spell resist and armor bonus it gave. It's now a fundamentally different morph than what it was before. I think for PvP it's a lot better than Dark Conversion now. It's a shame that they don't let us respec to that for free given they are the ones that changed it. If it was only a 100g cost then no big deal but for some people it will be a 12k cost.

Nazon_Katts

In most MMOs I've played, it's been common practice to refund points / reset skills, when they were substantially changed. At least the skills affected should have their points refunded, but considering how many skills and points there are, full free respecs shouldn't be given, maybe a tree, if many skills were altered.

It's of course arguable, at what point a change to a skill becomes substantial. Maybe by ZOS' definition those were just slight changes yet.

ozgod22_eso

Cogo wrote: »

And another respec when they fix and balance next week?

Common, balancing is ongoing and happening all the time.
You picked your skills. IF you picked them ONLY cause today they where good/not good, then you pay for your own choice.

Your post would make sense but for the fact that respeccing costs 12k+ at vet level. I don't think it's unreasonable to refund a skill point for a skill that is changed after the fact. If it's only 100g to change that one skill point, yes who cares. When you're just levelling or playing single player who cares. When you are in Trials changing a morph could be the difference between downing a progression boss or not. In that case suboptimising is not just hurting yourself it's hurting your teammates as well.

Except for this bit: "if you picked them only if they were good today"? Why would anyone stick with a morph that was less good if there was a better one that only became available after a fix? People make choices based on factual data available at the time. When those facts change they should pay 12k? That doesn't make sense.

Cogo

ozgod22_eso wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

And another respec when they fix and balance next week?

Common, balancing is ongoing and happening all the time.
You picked your skills. IF you picked them ONLY cause today they where good/not good, then you pay for your own choice.

Your post would make sense but for the fact that respeccing costs 12k+ at vet level. I don't think it's unreasonable to refund a skill point for a skill that is changed after the fact. If it's only 100g to change that one skill point, yes who cares. When you're just levelling or playing single player who cares. When you are in Trials changing a morph could be the difference between downing a progression boss or not. In that case suboptimising is not just hurting yourself it's hurting your teammates as well.

Except for this bit: "if you picked them only if they were good today"? Why would anyone stick with a morph that was less good if there was a better one that only became available after a fix? People make choices based on factual data available at the time. When those facts change they should pay 12k? That doesn't make sense.

Yes, I do. I have my skills either they are good or bad.
I didnt pick my skills because of any numbers, but what I wanted to be able to do.

I am a DK with the talons changed. So what! They are changed for a reason. Balancing. YES, I will do less damage with them, but its balancing. It seams they did to much.

Solution: Adapt.

I have done just fine as a DK tank, heavy armor, 2 stamina pieces. No, I am by FAR any best tank. But just because my skills changes a little bit, doesnt mean I need to respec. I still use them and simply adapt.

Sorry, I think the old saying, you made your bed.....applies here.

Ps, where are all the DK complaining post about not having to pay double mana for using talons once? Hello? Maybe they pop up soon......

Soloeus

I would like a Freespec next week because I will have to entirely rebuild my character due to PVE changes.

Loco_Mofo

Cogo wrote: »

And another respec when they fix and balance next week?

Common, balancing is ongoing and happening all the time.
You picked your skills. IF you picked them ONLY cause today they where good/not good, then you pay for your own choice.

Yes, absolutely.

How is the player supposed to know that the morph they chose 2 months ago would be changed to something completely different down the track? They couldn't possibly.

If respeccing wasn't so freaking ridiculously over priced, then this wouldn't be so much of an issue.

Other MMOs do this, why can't ESO?

Shaun98ca2

Min/Maxers really ruin any game that has choice in it as there really isn't much choice left after they are through with a game.

Kos

I think the way the skills are acquired could be changed. Real skills are not earned, they are learned. Choose the skill for free and then practice using it. We should be able to mix and match from the start, then learning to play would be much more enjoyable.

ozgod22_eso

Cogo wrote: »

ozgod22_eso wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

And another respec when they fix and balance next week?

Common, balancing is ongoing and happening all the time.
You picked your skills. IF you picked them ONLY cause today they where good/not good, then you pay for your own choice.

Your post would make sense but for the fact that respeccing costs 12k+ at vet level. I don't think it's unreasonable to refund a skill point for a skill that is changed after the fact. If it's only 100g to change that one skill point, yes who cares. When you're just levelling or playing single player who cares. When you are in Trials changing a morph could be the difference between downing a progression boss or not. In that case suboptimising is not just hurting yourself it's hurting your teammates as well.

Except for this bit: "if you picked them only if they were good today"? Why would anyone stick with a morph that was less good if there was a better one that only became available after a fix? People make choices based on factual data available at the time. When those facts change they should pay 12k? That doesn't make sense.

Yes, I do. I have my skills either they are good or bad.
I didnt pick my skills because of any numbers, but what I wanted to be able to do.

I am a DK with the talons changed. So what! They are changed for a reason. Balancing. YES, I will do less damage with them, but its balancing. It seams they did to much.

Solution: Adapt.

I have done just fine as a DK tank, heavy armor, 2 stamina pieces. No, I am by FAR any best tank. But just because my skills changes a little bit, doesnt mean I need to respec. I still use them and simply adapt.

Sorry, I think the old saying, you made your bed.....applies here.

Ps, where are all the DK complaining post about not having to pay double mana for using talons once? Hello? Maybe they pop up soon......

I'm not talking about small changes like tooltip changes or x% more damage. Dark Deal change is a pretty big change. The ability to use it while moving fundamentally changes the morph. It changes what you want to do - from being stationary while regaining magicka to moving while regaining magicka. It's not a numeric min-max change, it's a gameplay change.

As for adapting, I've been doing that since I started playing ESO on my four characters. For the most part the morphs I have selected I am happy with, both in terms of my expectation as well as the end result. A few did not quite come out as advertised, and some others were better for levelling but the other morph became better at vet level. Nonetheless I adapted and dealt with it. I don't think it's best practice however. If you could fix a single morph without having to pay for respeccing every other skill I would have no issue with the cost whatsoever.

As for making your bed, yes I made my bed, but before bedtime they changed the type of pillows and sheets I could use.

Duukar

I agree. Im a zeno fan boy. Im also a NB. I have the haste skill morphed to focused attacks. which is now worthless due to the stam buff from the passive. so why would I not expect a freespec in that one skill?

Cogo

Duukar wrote: »

I agree. Im a zeno fan boy. Im also a NB. I have the haste skill morphed to focused attacks. which is now worthless due to the stam buff from the passive. so why would I not expect a freespec in that one skill?

You actually have a point.

Not a total respec, but that change is big enough in my view to give you some skill points back. And the NB class is still under investigation....so you might get a few more tweaks. mostly of the better kind.

But sorry, EU server just came up. 7 hours instead of 10 for US people. US must love EU! :-)

Lets go!

Lodestar

Cogo wrote: »

ESO is a skill based game, which means constant balancing.
I am sorry if you did not know that......

There you go, passive aggressive flaming and insulting again!!! You hypocrite. Saw you insulting others on the forums yesterday, claiming you were gettring flamed, and not allowed to post your opinions for getting flamed.

Maybe if your opinions were not, "I can say whatever I like, but if you disagree, or give me back what I give out it is flaming". You might not get so many flames.

You get out of life what you put in. Have a bit of respect, and you may get it back.

And yes OP, lets have some points awarded back for the ones changed. No more, that is fair and above board.

Dayv

Cogo wrote: »

And another respec when they fix and balance next week?

Yeah, why not? Is a game only fun when it restricts or punishes you for your choices? Seriously, who loses out?

Kaaldein

As a Templar, also have morph that's been totally changed with this update:

Puncturing Sweep
Before: Larger AoE
After: Heals for % of Damage Inflicted

Totally different and will require full respec it seems? (not ingame yet), surely would require that skill refunded...

Lodestar

Dayv wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

And another respec when they fix and balance next week?

Yeah, why not? Is a game only fun when it restricts or punishes you for your choices? Seriously, who loses out?

From his previous posts I have seen. We the player lose out, because it makes the game more convenient and therefore less work.

Myself, I am quite concerned by this, and other patterns of choices, and behaviour from the developers. By the main part this game is great. But, things like this really let it down. Along with their insistence on time and money sinks making a great game, to the extent of charging people gold for getting stuck. Who dreamt that nonsense up?

daneyulebub17_ESO

Lodestar wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

And another respec when they fix and balance next week?

Yeah, why not? Is a game only fun when it restricts or punishes you for your choices? Seriously, who loses out?

From his previous posts I have seen. We the player lose out, because it makes the game more convenient and therefore less work.

Myself, I am quite concerned by this, and other patterns of choices, and behaviour from the developers. By the main part this game is great. But, things like this really let it down. Along with their insistence on time and money sinks making a great game, to the extent of charging people gold for getting stuck. Who dreamt that nonsense up?

I think you unfairly trivialize his argument.

There very much is something to be said for fighting against the mindset of easier is always good because... easier. Way too many games have succumbed to easy-creep over time, catering to demands that taken one at a time seem like no-brainers and are often hard to argue against taken individually. Who wants to work or take forever doing something??? I just want to play the game!

Trivial fast travel, easier mobs, nerf this boss, buff this class, make crafting trivial with nodes every 2 feet, death that means nothing but a quick port to a city, etc. etc. etc. And in any MMO, once an easier or "more convenient" feature is added, its almost impossible to take it back as people go ballistic, and can't seem to grasp that work, grind and frustration actually ARE often desirable aspects of a game--they make it challenging and long lasting and make the achievements feel meaningful---otherwise just give us a button to auto-level us to VR 12 and call it a day.

All that said--there really SHOULD be a free respec in this case--too many skills have been changed to force people to pay to respec through no fault of their own.

Lodestar

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

Lodestar wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

And another respec when they fix and balance next week?

Yeah, why not? Is a game only fun when it restricts or punishes you for your choices? Seriously, who loses out?

From his previous posts I have seen. We the player lose out, because it makes the game more convenient and therefore less work.

Myself, I am quite concerned by this, and other patterns of choices, and behaviour from the developers. By the main part this game is great. But, things like this really let it down. Along with their insistence on time and money sinks making a great game, to the extent of charging people gold for getting stuck. Who dreamt that nonsense up?

I think you unfairly trivialize his argument.

There very much is something to be said for fighting against the mindset of easier is always good because... easier. Way too many games have succumbed to easy-creep over time, catering to demands that taken one at a time seem like no-brainers and are often hard to argue against taken individually. Who wants to work or take forever doing something??? I just want to play the game!

Trivial fast travel, easier mobs, nerf this boss, buff this class, make crafting trivial with nodes every 2 feet, death that means nothing but a quick port to a city, etc. etc. etc. And in any MMO, once an easier or "more convenient" feature is added, its almost impossible to take it back as people go ballistic, and can't seem to grasp that work, grind and frustration actually ARE often desirable aspects of a game--they make it challenging and long lasting and make the achievements feel meaningful---otherwise just give us a button to auto-level us to VR 12 and call it a day.

All that said--there really SHOULD be a free respec in this case--too many skills have been changed to force people to pay to respec through no fault of their own.

I overly trivialise it, because he blows it out of proportion and context. It is a VERY valid concern, in certain situations. Not everything and anything.

SK1TZ0FR3N1K

Mortosk wrote: »

Sleestak wrote: »

With all these changes to classes you would think they would have given a free respec or at least refunded the points in the skills that were changed....

You didn't really think the same Zenimax that charges people 146 gold for getting stuck would give us a free skill reset did you?

You seriously take the death when you get stuck? Even when falling endlessly through the earth the "Travel to Player" option still works, and its free. Use a guildie, or a group member. Quit spending money on /stuck.

SK1TZ0FR3N1K

Lodestar wrote: »

And yes OP, lets have some points awarded back for the ones changed. No more, that is fair and above board.

This. Point refunds for just the skills that were changed completely. Never for a nerfed skill, or a buffed skill though.

subecsanur

Sleestak wrote: »

With all these changes to classes you would think they would have given a free respec or at least refunded the points in the skills that were changed....

You would think? Not sure why we need to pay so much for respec anyway? It is not like the game economics relies on this.

Mortosk

Sleestak wrote: »

With all these changes to classes you would think they would have given a free respec or at least refunded the points in the skills that were changed....

SK1TZ0FR3N1K wrote: »

Mortosk wrote: »

Sleestak wrote: »

With all these changes to classes you would think they would have given a free respec or at least refunded the points in the skills that were changed....

You didn't really think the same Zenimax that charges people 146 gold for getting stuck would give us a free skill reset did you?

You seriously take the death when you get stuck? Even when falling endlessly through the earth the "Travel to Player" option still works, and its free. Use a guildie, or a group member. Quit spending money on /stuck.

There is no death option anymore. You get charged 146 gold that's it. I wonder what would happen if a new player who hadn't joined a guild yet got stuck somewhere in coldharbor. Guess he would just have to use one of his 3 character deletes.

kaosodin

Sleestak wrote: »

With all these changes to classes you would think they would have given a free respec or at least refunded the points in the skills that were changed....

Lol you just dont understand

Shaun98ca2

Wonder what happens if you get /stuck but have no gold?

subecsanur

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Wonder what happens if you get /stuck but have no gold?

Yeah, this is the only game that actually penalize you in armor and gold for their in game flaws when you do get /stuck.