Let's talk about the skill bar system.

Shaun98ca2

Jeremy wrote: »

WrathOfRegicide wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

First I want to say I love the 5(6) button system. However, the logic behind it is a little wacky, to be honest.

We had a hellish 400 button system, all with timers/cooldowns. There was a major logic problem with this system.

The thought process was, why should skills have cool downs? After we cast a fireball, do we forget how to cast a fireball again for 3 seconds? Fair question.

So, we switched to this 5(6) skill system with no cooldowns.

Now I have to ask about our skills in this system. After we add our 5(6) skills to our bar, do we forget how to use all the other skills altogether? Why? I think that is a fair question as well.

Again, I do prefer the 5(6) skill bar system to the WoW hell bars we had in the past. I'm only asking about the logic from a character's perspective.

Both systems have a mana pools. Both have characters that know a crapload of spells/skills. Both have levels. Both have classes. Both have hp/AC/spell resists.

So, everything else seems even on paper.

So, what I would like to do is spitball on some ideas on a system that somehow explains this lack of knowledge, or have a system that let's you use all your powers with no cooldowns.

Does this make any sense?

What if you were able to put as many or as little skills on your bar as you like, but are still limited to your mana pool? Would that make more sense? I don't know. You tell me.

Thanks you.

I feel the reasoning behind the limited choices is so each player can develop their own style of play. It's not a bad system. When you take into account the weapon swap you have 10 normal abilities and 2 ultimate abilities. That gives the player room to develop a pretty complex rotation that can vary depending.

I wouldn't support the expansion of skills to the extent you suggest. Perhaps a couple more I could accept. But limiting the amount of choices is an important aspect if you want individuality among player builds to remain relevant. At least that is how I see it.

Not when the weapon swap is unreliable. There is too long of a delay for it to be a "complex rotation" and sometimes it doesn't even work. Most everybody uses the same skills for each class.

Just because the weapon swap isn't instant doesn't mean it can't be used to make more complex rotations. So I'm not understanding your point.

There is a delay. But that's as it should be because it takes time to switch weapons. And the delay isn't so bad that it keeps me from using it. I am constantly swapping between weapons to chain different abilities together. So it can work effectively.

And if it doesn't even work for you sometimes then that sounds more like a bug and is a separate issue from the system's design itself. That's a programming error. So while I bet it is annoying - I wouldn't judge the system based on that. I would instead make a bug report and advocate for its correction.

And I have yet to see any other player on this game who uses the same skills I do. So I disagree with you, and feel this system does increase individuality and a broader range of builds between players.

I also want to note that they included the delay so while user above statement CAN weapon swap the way he is your NOT FORCED to to make a viable character as weapon swapping isn't overpowered.

Shaun98ca2

Blackwidow wrote: »

@Jeremy I agree.

Can you explain why I can't cast heal when I have a combat staff in my hand(no healing spell on that bar), but when I switch to my sword and board I suddenly can?

This is what I am asking.

Does this make sense to anyone? If so, can you explain it to me from a character's perspective?

It doesn't have to make sense its a video game. Some stuff is implemented to make sense other are just simply design/balance reasons.

This game would be terribly hard if I thought I had to hit keys 6-0 for ANY reason. One of the reasons im staying way from this game competitor as you have to hit 1-0 while using almost an identical system with more emphasis on movement.

Singular

Jeremy wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

First I want to say I love the 5(6) button system. However, the logic behind it is a little wacky, to be honest.

We had a hellish 400 button system, all with timers/cooldowns. There was a major logic problem with this system.

The thought process was, why should skills have cool downs? After we cast a fireball, do we forget how to cast a fireball again for 3 seconds? Fair question.

So, we switched to this 5(6) skill system with no cooldowns.

Now I have to ask about our skills in this system. After we add our 5(6) skills to our bar, do we forget how to use all the other skills altogether? Why? I think that is a fair question as well.

Again, I do prefer the 5(6) skill bar system to the WoW hell bars we had in the past. I'm only asking about the logic from a character's perspective.

Both systems have a mana pools. Both have characters that know a crapload of spells/skills. Both have levels. Both have classes. Both have hp/AC/spell resists.

So, everything else seems even on paper.

So, what I would like to do is spitball on some ideas on a system that somehow explains this lack of knowledge, or have a system that let's you use all your powers with no cooldowns.

Does this make any sense?

What if you were able to put as many or as little skills on your bar as you like, but are still limited to your mana pool? Would that make more sense? I don't know. You tell me.

Thanks you.

I feel the reasoning behind the limited choices is so each player can develop their own style of play. It's not a bad system. When you take into account the weapon swap you have 10 normal abilities and 2 ultimate abilities. That gives the player room to develop a pretty complex rotation that can vary depending.

I wouldn't support the expansion of skills to the extent you suggest. Perhaps a couple more I could accept. But limiting the amount of choices is an important aspect if you want individuality among player builds to remain relevant. At least that is how I see it.

Your argument is that having a limited number of abilities on our skill bars somehow increases our personal style?

I couldn't disagree more. Having more would allow us to find unique combos that work for our play style. Having only 5 plus the ultimate makes it rather difficult to test and learn different combos. You pretty much have to go with cookie cutter.

Although...I suppose you could be correct since ESO has a pretty limited repertoire of skills per class/weapon skill line. If we had, say, 30 abilities on our skill bar, we'd all have the same skills.

I'm kind of used to a game that had more skills than you could put on your entire keyboard - and you had to choose your keymapping and a limited number of skills for that. It worked quite well and people did good jobs of being unique.

Blackwidow

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

It doesn't have to make sense its a video game.

I think that is the wrong attitude. This is a chance to try to make sense and have a viable system.

What's wrong with that?

Some stuff is implemented to make sense other are just simply design/balance reasons.

Yes.

However, the more things make sense, the better the game can be.

This game would be terribly hard if I thought I had to hit keys 6-0 for ANY reason.

What?

Shaun98ca2

Singular wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

First I want to say I love the 5(6) button system. However, the logic behind it is a little wacky, to be honest.

We had a hellish 400 button system, all with timers/cooldowns. There was a major logic problem with this system.

The thought process was, why should skills have cool downs? After we cast a fireball, do we forget how to cast a fireball again for 3 seconds? Fair question.

So, we switched to this 5(6) skill system with no cooldowns.

Now I have to ask about our skills in this system. After we add our 5(6) skills to our bar, do we forget how to use all the other skills altogether? Why? I think that is a fair question as well.

Again, I do prefer the 5(6) skill bar system to the WoW hell bars we had in the past. I'm only asking about the logic from a character's perspective.

Both systems have a mana pools. Both have characters that know a crapload of spells/skills. Both have levels. Both have classes. Both have hp/AC/spell resists.

So, everything else seems even on paper.

So, what I would like to do is spitball on some ideas on a system that somehow explains this lack of knowledge, or have a system that let's you use all your powers with no cooldowns.

Does this make any sense?

What if you were able to put as many or as little skills on your bar as you like, but are still limited to your mana pool? Would that make more sense? I don't know. You tell me.

Thanks you.

I feel the reasoning behind the limited choices is so each player can develop their own style of play. It's not a bad system. When you take into account the weapon swap you have 10 normal abilities and 2 ultimate abilities. That gives the player room to develop a pretty complex rotation that can vary depending.

I wouldn't support the expansion of skills to the extent you suggest. Perhaps a couple more I could accept. But limiting the amount of choices is an important aspect if you want individuality among player builds to remain relevant. At least that is how I see it.

Your argument is that having a limited number of abilities on our skill bars somehow increases our personal style?

I couldn't disagree more. Having more would allow us to find unique combos that work for our play style. Having only 5 plus the ultimate makes it rather difficult to test and learn different combos. You pretty much have to go with cookie cutter.

Although...I suppose you could be correct since ESO has a pretty limited repertoire of skills per class/weapon skill line. If we had, say, 30 abilities on our skill bar, we'd all have the same skills.

I'm kind of used to a game that had more skills than you could put on your entire keyboard - and you had to choose your keymapping and a limited number of skills for that. It worked quite well and people did good jobs of being unique.

I don't know "OTHER GAMES" that have longer hotbars there is a "perfect rotation" if your playing as such and such class theres a rotation.

TESO NOT so much as 5 abilities IS quite limiting so your really hard pressed to find similar builds unless your playing the FOTM on a particular class, and even then your still hard pressed to use the EXACT same abilities cause you find 1 is "hard to give up".

So Templar in this thread I believe stated he had to have inner light at all times or he cant heal. So his build differs greatly from other Templars that DONT use that ability I know I don't. I cant live without Binding Javelin on my Templar as it keeps me alive, while somebody else went with the other morph version and likes to kite and stay on his toes.

Jeremy

Blackwidow wrote: »

@Jeremy I agree.

Can you explain why I can't cast heal when I have a combat staff in my hand(no healing spell on that bar), but when I switch to my sword and board I suddenly can?

This is what I am asking.

Does this make sense to anyone? If so, can you explain it to me from a character's perspective?

They probably decided to assign skill bars to weapons because the weapons on this game have their own dependent skill lines.

The fact that skills not linked specifically to weapons become unavailable depending on which skill bar is currently active does have some logical flaws like you suggest. So I'm not sure if it's even possible to explain it from a character's perspective. Was probably a decision based more on just streamlining the process.

Jeremy

Singular wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

First I want to say I love the 5(6) button system. However, the logic behind it is a little wacky, to be honest.

We had a hellish 400 button system, all with timers/cooldowns. There was a major logic problem with this system.

The thought process was, why should skills have cool downs? After we cast a fireball, do we forget how to cast a fireball again for 3 seconds? Fair question.

So, we switched to this 5(6) skill system with no cooldowns.

Now I have to ask about our skills in this system. After we add our 5(6) skills to our bar, do we forget how to use all the other skills altogether? Why? I think that is a fair question as well.

Again, I do prefer the 5(6) skill bar system to the WoW hell bars we had in the past. I'm only asking about the logic from a character's perspective.

Both systems have a mana pools. Both have characters that know a crapload of spells/skills. Both have levels. Both have classes. Both have hp/AC/spell resists.

So, everything else seems even on paper.

So, what I would like to do is spitball on some ideas on a system that somehow explains this lack of knowledge, or have a system that let's you use all your powers with no cooldowns.

Does this make any sense?

What if you were able to put as many or as little skills on your bar as you like, but are still limited to your mana pool? Would that make more sense? I don't know. You tell me.

Thanks you.

I feel the reasoning behind the limited choices is so each player can develop their own style of play. It's not a bad system. When you take into account the weapon swap you have 10 normal abilities and 2 ultimate abilities. That gives the player room to develop a pretty complex rotation that can vary depending.

I wouldn't support the expansion of skills to the extent you suggest. Perhaps a couple more I could accept. But limiting the amount of choices is an important aspect if you want individuality among player builds to remain relevant. At least that is how I see it.

Your argument is that having a limited number of abilities on our skill bars somehow increases our personal style?

I couldn't disagree more. Having more would allow us to find unique combos that work for our play style.

I said it increases individuality among player builds. You can still experiment and find unique combinations of skills. You just can't have them all at once. This forces players to choose and leads to the creation of different builds. Which is a more fundamental difference then merely using skills differently.

And I never mentioned player style. That could be interpreted to mean something different than what I'm suggesting.