Let's talk about the skill bar system.

Blackwidow

First I want to say I love the 5(6) button system. However, the logic behind it is a little wacky, to be honest.

We had a hellish 400 button system, all with timers/cooldowns. There was a major logic problem with this system.

The thought process was, why should skills have cool downs? After we cast a fireball, do we forget how to cast a fireball again for 3 seconds? Fair question.

So, we switched to this 5(6) skill system with no cooldowns.

Now I have to ask about our skills in this system. After we add our 5(6) skills to our bar, do we forget how to use all the other skills altogether? Why? I think that is a fair question as well.

Again, I do prefer the 5(6) skill bar system to the WoW hell bars we had in the past. I'm only asking about the logic from a character's perspective.

Both systems have a mana pools. Both have characters that know a crapload of spells/skills. Both have levels. Both have classes. Both have hp/AC/spell resists.

So, everything else seems even on paper.

So, what I would like to do is spitball on some ideas on a system that somehow explains this lack of knowledge, or have a system that let's you use all your powers with no cooldowns.

Does this make any sense?

What if you were able to put as many or as little skills on your bar as you like, but are still limited to your mana pool? Would that make more sense? I don't know. You tell me.

Thank you.

Edit: I want to be perfectly clear here. I'm not asking for more buttons on the skill bar.

I'm asking from a characters point of view, what would be the best way to handle/explain the skills or the lack of using the skills.

sir_vasb16_ESO

The secret world system
http://www.tentonhammer.com/tsw/guides/the-ability-wheel

cabbageub17_ESO

When people are asking for a bigger skill bar they aren't asking for 40 slots just 2 or 3 more per weapon side. Not sure how this wouldn't work on console. 8 skills are L1+4 Main buttons and L2+4 main buttons. Ultimate L1 + R1. That would be 8 skill bar plus and ultimate on each side. Pretty annoying to waste a slot for the NB invis ability or the Sor summon creatures.

Singular

I think we can rationalize any system. Probably more importantly is deciding which system works best for you.

I'm a fan of having greater numbers of skills available because I like to come up with differing combinations for different situations on the fly. Plus, if you can type fast, it becomes real time skill based.

But I can see why that wouldn't appeal to other people, especially people who don't type or can't compete with motor skills (no insult to them, just that people vary in their ability to use keys quickly).

Anyways, some rationalizations:

For global cooldowns:
1. the energy must build up before you do it again.
2. you're fumbling with the ingredients/actions, whatever, to cause the ability to work

For limited bar:
1. practice makes perfect, and you're just out of practice with the stuff you don't have on your bar (ok, ok, I'm reaching here - no, I don't see the reason to limit our skill bars!)
2. Uh...yeah, nope, can't think of one. Maybe someone else can!

Silly limited action bars.

Jeremy

Blackwidow wrote: »

First I want to say I love the 5(6) button system. However, the logic behind it is a little wacky, to be honest.

We had a hellish 400 button system, all with timers/cooldowns. There was a major logic problem with this system.

The thought process was, why should skills have cool downs? After we cast a fireball, do we forget how to cast a fireball again for 3 seconds? Fair question.

So, we switched to this 5(6) skill system with no cooldowns.

Now I have to ask about our skills in this system. After we add our 5(6) skills to our bar, do we forget how to use all the other skills altogether? Why? I think that is a fair question as well.

Again, I do prefer the 5(6) skill bar system to the WoW hell bars we had in the past. I'm only asking about the logic from a character's perspective.

Both systems have a mana pools. Both have characters that know a crapload of spells/skills. Both have levels. Both have classes. Both have hp/AC/spell resists.

So, everything else seems even on paper.

So, what I would like to do is spitball on some ideas on a system that somehow explains this lack of knowledge, or have a system that let's you use all your powers with no cooldowns.

Does this make any sense?

What if you were able to put as many or as little skills on your bar as you like, but are still limited to your mana pool? Would that make more sense? I don't know. You tell me.

Thanks you.

I feel the reasoning behind the limited choices is so each player can develop their own style of play. It's not a bad system. When you take into account the weapon swap you have 10 normal abilities and 2 ultimate abilities. That gives the player room to develop a pretty complex rotation that can vary depending.

I wouldn't support the expansion of skills to the extent you suggest. Perhaps a couple more I could accept. But limiting the amount of choices is an important aspect if you want individuality among player builds to remain relevant. At least that is how I see it.

Ojustaboo

I'm almost happy with the amount we have, there's a few things such as mage light that I wished didn't take up a slot.

Mind you, I'd probably be saying the same thing if we had 10 slots on each weapon

My main concern with the current system is that so many skills I'd like to use, simply never get used. Now I'm vet 3, I need the best selection for survival and it's even more important in group dungeons.

I used to love having both my pets out whilst soloing, now I have none as theres other skills that greatly increase my survivability, which means I'm now playing in a way the game dictates rather than the way I want. A few more skill slots would get around this.

Ser Lobo

In certain training courses in field survival that I have been in, they dump a big bin in front of you and tell you to take three things out of the pile before heading into the woods. Sounds easy, saying it here, but when you're deciding between that snare line or a poncho, it gets much more difficult.

This is why I'm enjoying this new breed of action RPG's, but I realize that it is my preference, and not everyone does enjoy it.

I like how ARPG's put this limitation in place, which causes me to ask myself 'what is more important for the job at hand.'

I sometimes become derisive of the WoW/EQ spawned UI that ends up with so many toolbars and side bars and quick bars and bag bars, etc, etc. But if I was honest I'd admit that this is simply my preference, nothing more or less. Those players are no more or less skilled than me. They aren't smarter or dumber. They are just players.

Kumbayah and all that, but it's the truth. Whether the bar is 12 spots long with 10 other bars to add to it, or 6 spots long and two deep, it's still the flavor of the game.

Fuzzylumpkins

Blackwidow wrote: »

First I want to say I love the 5(6) button system. However, the logic behind it is a little wacky, to be honest.

We had a hellish 400 button system, all with timers/cooldowns. There was a major logic problem with this system.

The thought process was, why should skills have cool downs? After we cast a fireball, do we forget how to cast a fireball again for 3 seconds? Fair question.

So, we switched to this 5(6) skill system with no cooldowns.

Now I have to ask about our skills in this system. After we add our 5(6) skills to our bar, do we forget how to use all the other skills altogether? Why? I think that is a fair question as well.

Again, I do prefer the 5(6) skill bar system to the WoW hell bars we had in the past. I'm only asking about the logic from a character's perspective.

Both systems have a mana pools. Both have characters that know a crapload of spells/skills. Both have levels. Both have classes. Both have hp/AC/spell resists.

So, everything else seems even on paper.

So, what I would like to do is spitball on some ideas on a system that somehow explains this lack of knowledge, or have a system that let's you use all your powers with no cooldowns.

Does this make any sense?

What if you were able to put as many or as little skills on your bar as you like, but are still limited to your mana pool? Would that make more sense? I don't know. You tell me.

Thanks you.

This game was designed with the console in mind not the pc. Pc gaming notoriously has more complex play and choice due to keyboard control. Consoles have a d pad, 4 buttons and the L/R controls.

If you want the option of 40 abilities (ability pruning in WoD alpha has classes down to about 10 abilities now btw, read up) then go back to WoW. Avoid console designed mmos and you will get 10 ability options. Hell, Wildstar is about as irritatingly ugly as wow and offers you a full hot bar for options, give it a shot.



[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Ser Lobo

Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

First I want to say I love the 5(6) button system. However, the logic behind it is a little wacky, to be honest.

We had a hellish 400 button system, all with timers/cooldowns. There was a major logic problem with this system.

The thought process was, why should skills have cool downs? After we cast a fireball, do we forget how to cast a fireball again for 3 seconds? Fair question.

So, we switched to this 5(6) skill system with no cooldowns.

Now I have to ask about our skills in this system. After we add our 5(6) skills to our bar, do we forget how to use all the other skills altogether? Why? I think that is a fair question as well.

Again, I do prefer the 5(6) skill bar system to the WoW hell bars we had in the past. I'm only asking about the logic from a character's perspective.

Both systems have a mana pools. Both have characters that know a crapload of spells/skills. Both have levels. Both have classes. Both have hp/AC/spell resists.

So, everything else seems even on paper.

So, what I would like to do is spitball on some ideas on a system that somehow explains this lack of knowledge, or have a system that let's you use all your powers with no cooldowns.

Does this make any sense?

What if you were able to put as many or as little skills on your bar as you like, but are still limited to your mana pool? Would that make more sense? I don't know. You tell me.

Thanks you.

This game was designed with the console in mind not the pc. Pc gaming notoriously has more complex play and choice due to keyboard control. Consoles have a d pad, 4 buttons and the L/R controls.

If you want the option of 40 abilities (ability pruning in WoD alpha has classes down to about 10 abilities now btw, read up) then go back to WoW. Avoid console designed mmos and you will get 10 ability options. Hell, Wildstar is about as irritatingly ugly as wow and offers you a full hot bar for options, give it a shot.

Disagree. There are other MMO's out, both in the past and present, that don't use the standard 10-12 slot toolbar.

While consoles may have been in their mind, it's not proof that it's a console-focused mechanic. There are many things currently in the game that wouldn't work very well and will have to be heavily altered/pruned for consoles (emotes, chat windows, addons, etc). Plus, the PC release doesn't even come with a simple controller configuration for keybinding, which wouldn't be hard to do if it was built to port to consoles cleanly.

So if the design element has been used before on games that never even LOOKED at consoles, and the current design will have to be heavily altered anyhow to go to consoles, and consoles will be on their own separate servers which don't require toolbar equality to begin with, I think it's grasping at straws to say that's the only reason they chose this current setup.

And lets not forget the repeated remarks by ZOS that a 'clean UI' was their goal all along.

Taken at the base value, it sounds like a reasonable assumption. Taken with all the facts, and it is far less likely.


[Moderator Note: Edited Quoted Material]

Blackwidow

If you want the option of 40 abilities (ability pruning in WoD alpha has classes down to about 10 abilities now btw, read up) then go back to WoW.

That is not what I said at all.

Hell, Wildstar is about as irritatingly ugly as wow and offers you a full hot bar for options, give it a shot.

/reported you



[Moderator Note: Edited Quoted Material]

WrathOfRegicide

Jeremy wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

First I want to say I love the 5(6) button system. However, the logic behind it is a little wacky, to be honest.

We had a hellish 400 button system, all with timers/cooldowns. There was a major logic problem with this system.

The thought process was, why should skills have cool downs? After we cast a fireball, do we forget how to cast a fireball again for 3 seconds? Fair question.

So, we switched to this 5(6) skill system with no cooldowns.

Now I have to ask about our skills in this system. After we add our 5(6) skills to our bar, do we forget how to use all the other skills altogether? Why? I think that is a fair question as well.

Again, I do prefer the 5(6) skill bar system to the WoW hell bars we had in the past. I'm only asking about the logic from a character's perspective.

Both systems have a mana pools. Both have characters that know a crapload of spells/skills. Both have levels. Both have classes. Both have hp/AC/spell resists.

So, everything else seems even on paper.

So, what I would like to do is spitball on some ideas on a system that somehow explains this lack of knowledge, or have a system that let's you use all your powers with no cooldowns.

Does this make any sense?

What if you were able to put as many or as little skills on your bar as you like, but are still limited to your mana pool? Would that make more sense? I don't know. You tell me.

Thanks you.

I feel the reasoning behind the limited choices is so each player can develop their own style of play. It's not a bad system. When you take into account the weapon swap you have 10 normal abilities and 2 ultimate abilities. That gives the player room to develop a pretty complex rotation that can vary depending.

I wouldn't support the expansion of skills to the extent you suggest. Perhaps a couple more I could accept. But limiting the amount of choices is an important aspect if you want individuality among player builds to remain relevant. At least that is how I see it.

Not when the weapon swap is unreliable. There is too long of a delay for it to be a "complex rotation" and sometimes it doesn't even work. Most everybody uses the same skills for each class.

FunkyBudda

Blackwidow wrote: »

First I want to say I love the 5(6) button system. However, the logic behind it is a little wacky, to be honest.

We had a hellish 400 button system, all with timers/cooldowns. There was a major logic problem with this system.

The thought process was, why should skills have cool downs? After we cast a fireball, do we forget how to cast a fireball again for 3 seconds? Fair question.

So, we switched to this 5(6) skill system with no cooldowns.

Now I have to ask about our skills in this system. After we add our 5(6) skills to our bar, do we forget how to use all the other skills altogether? Why? I think that is a fair question as well.

Again, I do prefer the 5(6) skill bar system to the WoW hell bars we had in the past. I'm only asking about the logic from a character's perspective.

Both systems have a mana pools. Both have characters that know a crapload of spells/skills. Both have levels. Both have classes. Both have hp/AC/spell resists.

So, everything else seems even on paper.

So, what I would like to do is spitball on some ideas on a system that somehow explains this lack of knowledge, or have a system that let's you use all your powers with no cooldowns.

Does this make any sense?

What if you were able to put as many or as little skills on your bar as you like, but are still limited to your mana pool? Would that make more sense? I don't know. You tell me.

Thank you.

Edit: I want to be perfectly clear here. I'm not asking for more buttons on the skill bar.

I'm asking from a characters point of view, what would be the best way to handle/explain the skills or the lack of using the skills.

The game was designed to make it as easy as possible to scale for consoles. With limited amount of buttons on a controller, there's no other way but to limit the amount of the active skill slots available.

Shaun98ca2

Blackwidow wrote: »

First I want to say I love the 5(6) button system. However, the logic behind it is a little wacky, to be honest.

We had a hellish 400 button system, all with timers/cooldowns. There was a major logic problem with this system.

The thought process was, why should skills have cool downs? After we cast a fireball, do we forget how to cast a fireball again for 3 seconds? Fair question.

So, we switched to this 5(6) skill system with no cooldowns.

Now I have to ask about our skills in this system. After we add our 5(6) skills to our bar, do we forget how to use all the other skills altogether? Why? I think that is a fair question as well.

Again, I do prefer the 5(6) skill bar system to the WoW hell bars we had in the past. I'm only asking about the logic from a character's perspective.

Both systems have a mana pools. Both have characters that know a crapload of spells/skills. Both have levels. Both have classes. Both have hp/AC/spell resists.

So, everything else seems even on paper.

So, what I would like to do is spitball on some ideas on a system that somehow explains this lack of knowledge, or have a system that let's you use all your powers with no cooldowns.

Does this make any sense?

What if you were able to put as many or as little skills on your bar as you like, but are still limited to your mana pool? Would that make more sense? I don't know. You tell me.

Thank you.

Edit: I want to be perfectly clear here. I'm not asking for more buttons on the skill bar.

I'm asking from a characters point of view, what would be the best way to handle/explain the skills or the lack of using the skills.

Remember D&D wizards had to memorize spells everyday.

UrQuan

Here's a possible in-universe justification: you have to take some time to mentally prepare your skills in order to be able to use them at the drop of a hat. You can only have so many prepared at a time, but in calm moments in between battles you can take a moment to concentrate on preparing different skills that you know.

Basically, think of it like a variant on the Jack Vance system used by D&D, but instead of preparing each spell and losing it from your mind once you've cast it, you can prepare fewer spells, but you cast the spells you've prepared as often as you want within your magika limitations.

Blackwidow

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Remember D&D wizards had to memorize spells everyday.

If that was the system, I guess that would make some sense, but it is not.

Blackwidow

Ur-Quan wrote: »

Here's a possible in-universe justification: you have to take some time to mentally prepare your skills in order to be able to use them at the drop of a hat. You can only have so many prepared at a time, but in calm moments in between battles you can take a moment to concentrate on preparing different skills that you know.

Basically, think of it like a variant on the Jack Vance system used by D&D, but instead of preparing each spell and losing it from your mind once you've cast it, you can prepare fewer spells, but you cast the spells you've prepared as often as you want within your magika limitations.

I see what you are saying, but how did you forget how to use your sword, or heal yourself?

In D&D, wizards did not really forget how to cast, they just could only retain so much magic scripts in their head for a day.

This is not like that. We are all not wizards. Besides, wizards were limited to 1 cast per memorization. If they wanted to cast fireball 3 times, they had to memorize it three times. That system did not make much sense either.

ArRashid

I'd just be happy with 1, max 2 more abilities.
Right now I have 1 bar for damage and 1 bar almost entirely for buffs / heals, and it's driving me mad to switch between them before every combat, just to survive VR pack.

But I don't really believe we have just 6 abilities for the "balance" reasons. I just think that console users are too lazy to hold a "modifier" button to get to the other abilities, and they have to have a separate button for everything.

Anyways, I REALLY DOUBT that such fast-paced game with monstrous difficulty as ESO is will be popular on consoles. Joystick for thumb must feel really weird for controlling cursor..

vyndral13preub18_ESO

ArRashid wrote: »

I'd just be happy with 1, max 2 more abilities.
Right now I have 1 bar for damage and 1 bar almost entirely for buffs / heals, and it's driving me mad to switch between them before every combat, just to survive VR pack.

But I don't really believe we have just 6 abilities for the "balance" reasons. I just think that console users are too lazy to hold a "modifier" button to get to the other abilities, and they have to have a separate button for everything.

Anyways, I REALLY DOUBT that such fast-paced game with monstrous difficulty as ESO is will be popular on consoles. Joystick for thumb must feel really weird for controlling cursor..

I disagree. If I had just 2 more buttons I feel I could have a button for every situation on 1 bar. From what I read it seems like most agree, since most seem to ask for just 1-3 more buttons. This makes it seem more like a design decision. Like the didn't want you to be able to build a character that could cover all his bases at once. Which while it can get frustrating loading skills some times, it also makes it interesting to me since I can't just load up my bar and forget about it.

DanteYoda

sir_vasb16_ESO wrote: »

The secret world system
http://www.tentonhammer.com/tsw/guides/the-ability-wheel

Agreed was an awesome skill setup, sadly the game was dead when i played it, still beats the heck outta ESO though 5 skills wtf boring and tedious..

i major factor why i quit.

ArRashid

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

ArRashid wrote: »

I'd just be happy with 1, max 2 more abilities.
Right now I have 1 bar for damage and 1 bar almost entirely for buffs / heals, and it's driving me mad to switch between them before every combat, just to survive VR pack.

But I don't really believe we have just 6 abilities for the "balance" reasons. I just think that console users are too lazy to hold a "modifier" button to get to the other abilities, and they have to have a separate button for everything.

Anyways, I REALLY DOUBT that such fast-paced game with monstrous difficulty as ESO is will be popular on consoles. Joystick for thumb must feel really weird for controlling cursor..

I disagree. If I had just 2 more buttons I feel I could have a button for every situation on 1 bar. From what I read it seems like most agree, since most seem to ask for just 1-3 more buttons. This makes it seem more like a design decision. Like the didn't want you to be able to build a character that could cover all his bases at once. Which while it can get frustrating loading skills some times, it also makes it interesting to me since I can't just load up my bar and forget about it.

You people act like having one more skill on bar miraculously put you in a godmode and make you capable of tanking, dpsing and healing at once.

I still remember when ESO was supposed to have no real gaps between roles like in WoW and it's clones, that we will be able to build what we like and play that way. Well, it's mostly true for tanks, as almost anyone can tank (I've even seen light tanks with staves..).

What is weird is that even though almost anyone can tank, or heal (both of which require about 2 skills to be "efficient enough" (outside endgame content), being a dps is a full-time job that require ONE BUILD (since nothing else quite work) and commiting all playstyle into that.

Not to mention AOE builds are not effective in boss fights and single target builds get you killed outside boss fights..

Blackwidow

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

If I had just 2 more buttons I feel I could have a button for every situation on 1 bar.

But, your character knows these skills. So, why is he not allowed to use them?

That is all I was asking. I'm not trying to get more buttons on the bar.

I just think there is a better system that acknowledges the character has these skills, yet still has a balance in the game.

I'm not trying to change ESO. I just wanted to spitball on this concept and see if anyone might have some ideas.

Dusty5

For your quest of knowledge look at old dev posts. The 5 action skill bar has nothing to do with player skill or builds. TESO is supposed to be a multiplatform MMO. Players are restricted to 5 action because of console players. Console launch has been delayed again due to multiple issues. Everything from action bars to new content is all tied to console players. Nothing will be changed or added to that ads another delay to console launch. Its all about getting 60 bucks a pop out of a new market before falling back into the bargain bin. This thread or something close to it pops up about every 10 days or so. You'd think someone would be re-thinking the effects of this on the game as a whole but it does not look that way.

AlexDougherty

cabbageub17_ESO wrote: »

When people are asking for a bigger skill bar they aren't asking for 40 slots just 2 or 3 more per weapon side. Not sure how this wouldn't work on console. 8 skills are L1+4 Main buttons and L2+4 main buttons. Ultimate L1 + R1. That would be 8 skill bar plus and ultimate on each side. Pretty annoying to waste a slot for the NB invis ability or the Sor summon creatures.

Quoted for truth.

Two more slots per character would make my game a lot nicer.

AlexDougherty

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. If I had just 2 more buttons I feel I could have a button for every situation on 1 bar. From what I read it seems like most agree, since most seem to ask for just 1-3 more buttons. This makes it seem more like a design decision. Like they didn't want you to be able to build a character that could cover all his bases at once.

Maybe, but they have already changed aspects of the game, they've added cooldowns, increased magicka costs, and are still fixing parts of the game.

So maybe a slight reconsideration on the buttons is in order, I wouldn't have a button for everything, but I would have a better blend of class and weapon skills, maybe a guild skill or two. 7/8 bottuns would give me a better balanced character, not one with skills for everything, just one who might have a decent but focused set of skills.

Lynx7386

5 +1 just isnt enough. Especially when so many class/build setups have to sacrafice one or more slots on passive abilities.

For example, my templar healer really only gets 4+ultimate on each bar, because I'm having to automatically give up one slot for inner light. You could argue that I can choose not to use inner light, and I'd argue that without that additional critical bonus my heals wouldnt be able to keep my party alive.

Swapping between the two hotbars is extremely clunky and slow right now. Sometimes there's as much as a 2-3 second delay, and you often cant switch bars when under any kind of effect or in the middle of any kind of animation. If I'm on my heal over time bar, and suddenly the group starts taking heavy damage, it can take several seconds to switch to my burst healing bar and get those heavy heals out, moreso if I'm under any kind of negative effects from the enemy.


Personally I'd like to see it changed to the following:

6 skill slots for each weapon bar.
1 Ultimate slot for each weapon bar.
2 Buff/Passive/Toggle slots for each weapon bar.

The buff/passive/toggle slots would be used only for the following abilities:
-Magelight/Inner Light/Radiant Magelight
-Inferno/Flames of Oblivion/Sea of Flames
-Molten Weapons/Igneous Weapons/Molten Armaments (yes, make this a toggle instead of a limited duration buff)
-Unstable Familiar/Unstable Clannfear/Volatile Familiar
-Winged Twilight/Restoring Twilight/Twilight Matriarch
-Bound Armor/Bound Armaments/Bound Aegis
-Haste/Focused Attacks/Incapacitate (again, make this a toggle instead of a buff)
-Summon Shade/Dark Shades/Shadow Image (Same thing, a toggle like sorc pets)
-Siphoning Strikes/Leeching Strikes/Siphoning Attacks
-Restoring Aura/Radiant Aura/Repentance (Make repentance automatically suck energy from corpses instead of having to be pressed again)

These abilities would not be able to be placed on the normal 1-6 ability slots anymore, but could only be placed in the toggle slots. This would, obviously, limit sorcerors to choosing either their two pets or one pet + bound armor, but everyone would be able to use the same number of toggled abilities and would not have to sacrafice active skills for them.

Ser Lobo

If they add two more ability slots, how long do you think it will be before players come here asking for just 3 more, claiming that their build is unnaturally filled from the lack of those slots?

I'd bet those posts, no different than these here, are posted before the change ever hit live.

Human nature. We always want more. Might as well draw the line in the sand now, sticking with the action rpg focus, or go to a full bar and cooldowns. But ZOS will never have happy customers, no matter what they change. That's just not what forum posters are.


I hate autocorrect on the kindle.

MrDenimChicken

Yeah 5 skills is way too limiting. I don't want to be force to use another weapon set just so I feel like my character has any semblance of utility.

Plus, I want to use other abilities while I level, not the same ones over and over! Most of the new abilities I seem to get are more situational, and you can't afford to use "situational" abilities...only abilities that are the most OP for most situations.

And it's not like there are all these numerous builds you can create from more situational abilities. There doesn't seem to be many synergistic combinations, or enough passives to justify using a specific ability set that other people aren't using. Every sorc just ends up spamming crystal shards with magic light and the lightning finisher....Why is there there no way to specialize to make certain abilities more powerful? all the passives are so freaking simple and don't modify specific abilities!!

The whole 5 skill system just makes the game seem too simple. It just adds on to this whole idea I have that this game just lacks complexity.

AlexDougherty

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

If they add two more ability slots, how long do you think it will be before players come here asking for just 3 more, claiming that their build is unnaturally filled from the lack of those slots?

I'd bet those posts, no different than these here, are posted before the change ever hit live.

Human nature. We always want more. Might as well draw the line in the sand now, sticking with the action rpg focus, or go to a full bar and cooldowns. But ZOS will never have happy customers, no matter what they change. That's just not what forum posters are.


I hate autocorrect on the kindle.

Probably, but I can honestly say I wouldn't be one of them, literally two skill buttons would be enough for me, especially for my sorc.

I know we always want more, but in this case the game does feel slightly underbuttoned, two maybe three buttons and our playstyles would flow more. Even in Swtor where we could have six hotbars (I used three, I'll be honest) I found myself using the same eight buttons all the time, and one of those was for potions.

diwie

I would be more happy if the "quick" slot bar would be improved with more useful trophies. To met its kind of joke at the moment.

Jeremy

WrathOfRegicide wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

First I want to say I love the 5(6) button system. However, the logic behind it is a little wacky, to be honest.

We had a hellish 400 button system, all with timers/cooldowns. There was a major logic problem with this system.

The thought process was, why should skills have cool downs? After we cast a fireball, do we forget how to cast a fireball again for 3 seconds? Fair question.

So, we switched to this 5(6) skill system with no cooldowns.

Now I have to ask about our skills in this system. After we add our 5(6) skills to our bar, do we forget how to use all the other skills altogether? Why? I think that is a fair question as well.

Again, I do prefer the 5(6) skill bar system to the WoW hell bars we had in the past. I'm only asking about the logic from a character's perspective.

Both systems have a mana pools. Both have characters that know a crapload of spells/skills. Both have levels. Both have classes. Both have hp/AC/spell resists.

So, everything else seems even on paper.

So, what I would like to do is spitball on some ideas on a system that somehow explains this lack of knowledge, or have a system that let's you use all your powers with no cooldowns.

Does this make any sense?

What if you were able to put as many or as little skills on your bar as you like, but are still limited to your mana pool? Would that make more sense? I don't know. You tell me.

Thanks you.

I feel the reasoning behind the limited choices is so each player can develop their own style of play. It's not a bad system. When you take into account the weapon swap you have 10 normal abilities and 2 ultimate abilities. That gives the player room to develop a pretty complex rotation that can vary depending.

I wouldn't support the expansion of skills to the extent you suggest. Perhaps a couple more I could accept. But limiting the amount of choices is an important aspect if you want individuality among player builds to remain relevant. At least that is how I see it.

Not when the weapon swap is unreliable. There is too long of a delay for it to be a "complex rotation" and sometimes it doesn't even work. Most everybody uses the same skills for each class.

Just because the weapon swap isn't instant doesn't mean it can't be used to make more complex rotations. So I'm not understanding your point.

There is a delay. But that's as it should be because it takes time to switch weapons. And the delay isn't so bad that it keeps me from using it. I am constantly swapping between weapons to chain different abilities together. So it can work effectively.

And if it doesn't even work for you sometimes then that sounds more like a bug and is a separate issue from the system's design itself. That's a programming error. So while I bet it is annoying - I wouldn't judge the system based on that. I would instead make a bug report and advocate for its correction.

And I have yet to see any other player on this game who uses the same skills I do. So I disagree with you, and feel this system does increase individuality and a broader range of builds between players.

Blackwidow

@Jeremy I agree.

Can you explain why I can't cast heal when I have a combat staff in my hand(no healing spell on that bar), but when I switch to my sword and board I suddenly can?

This is what I am asking.

Does this make sense to anyone? If so, can you explain it to me from a character's perspective?