Is it possible to make a melee Sorc work?

Gern_Verkheart

I played as a melee sorc all the way to veteran 5, at that point I was getting nowhere, and switched to cloth and staff. Now I've got him to vet 8 and questing in Malabal-Tor. I decided to switch back to melee, using 5 medium 2 light stamina build, DW main w/ resto staff off wep. Needless to say, it hasn't been going well. I die on almost every pull, largely because I run out of stamina.

I also have a vet-5 melee NB, and have never felt the need to go staff & cloth. He has plenty of abilities to boost his stamina regen in combat, and thus never runs out. But on my sorc, that is not the case, he has no abilities to boost stamina regen. Dodge roll (even with the medium armor bonus) costs way too much stamina, as does block, and since in the higher vet zones every other attack from enemies is a heavy attack, I run out of stamina fast.

As it stand, this is the only build that I feel is actually not viable in any way. Other classes, such as my NB, are able to make melee stamina builds work, they aren't breaking any DPS meters, but they work. That is not so for a melee sorc.

Does anyone out there play a melee sorc in High veteran content that they have been able to make work? If so, how?

Gern_Verkheart

No one? Am I the only one who is trying to play this way?

cjmarsh725b14_ESO

The problem is that stamina builds are already underpowered as it is and a sorc has basically nothing that helps in that department, you're relying on the weapon and armor skills. I'd recommend putting hardened ward and annulment on your off bar and switching to it to buff yourself up before fights to maybe give you an edge.

Curragraigue

No I gave up on the melee sorcerer build at 30. I was hoping to level up and try again but it sounds like based on your post that I would be wasting my time.

I had planned on doing a similar build to the Reaver that was discussed on the Tamerial Foundary but I just could not be competitive enough with this build in lower levels compared to the DPS I was doing with a straight light armour staff sorcerer build. So I reset all of my skills to change over to the standard light armour and staff sorcerer.

Two very different builds though so if you are swapping to the stamina build are you resetting your attributes (I assume you have enough skill points not to need to reset at V8) and wearing jewelry, crafted sets, appropriate mundus stone and glyphs that all support a stamina DPS build?

I assume you are but just want to check. If so it seems like I will need to wait for ZOS to do something to help stamina builds before I try it again.

Gern_Verkheart

Curragraigue wrote: »

No I gave up on the melee sorcerer build at 30. I was hoping to level up and try again but it sounds like based on your post that I would be wasting my time.

I had planned on doing a similar build to the Reaver that was discussed on the Tamerial Foundary but I just could not be competitive enough with this build in lower levels compared to the DPS I was doing with a straight light armour staff sorcerer build. So I reset all of my skills to change over to the standard light armour and staff sorcerer.

Two very different builds though so if you are swapping to the stamina build are you resetting your attributes (I assume you have enough skill points not to need to reset at V8) and wearing jewelry, crafted sets, appropriate mundus stone and glyphs that all support a stamina DPS build?

I assume you are but just want to check. If so it seems like I will need to wait for ZOS to do something to help stamina builds before I try it again.

No I didn't have to reset my skills, like I said: I had already leveled up to vet-5 as a melee sorc. I did reset my traits though. I switched from half magicka and half health, to half stamina and half health,

I use all stamina enchants on my armor. Jewelry all reduces the cost of stamina abilities, and boosts my stamina. I have the 5 set bonus for twilight's embrace, boosting my healing received and giving me 5% spell crit (mostly for my finisher.) and the 3 set bonus from the seducer, reducing the cost of spells. I would run set bonuses that give better bonuses for stamina users, but there aren't any (in my opinion).

poodlemasterb16_ESO

I'm doing quite well with a sorc Battlemage at level 31 now. He does fire staff mainly, a Dunmer buffed for, and against flame but he has a big axe he pulls out quite a bit.

I have found it works as an addition. I put nothing into 2 hand actives and use sorc spells as they are the best.

Stamden

See "The Reaver" build on Tamriel Foundry. Basically, with Critical Surge, you get an absurd about of hp back when you have a high crit chance. You can essentially solo things really well.

hk11

You cant even make a melee character from a melee archtype.

Tamriel Foundry has some different melee sorc builds.

Makkir

I read on another forum of very successful Sorc tanks just using the taunts from the non-class specific lines (Not sure if from one of the npc guilds, or the 1h weapon skill line) and using Lightning form, pool....stacking heavy armor and also using immovable.

Curragraigue

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

No I didn't have to reset my skills, like I said: I had already leveled up to vet-5 as a melee sorc. I did reset my traits though. I switched from half magicka and half health, to half stamina and half health,

I use all stamina enchants on my armor. Jewelry all reduces the cost of stamina abilities, and boosts my stamina. I have the 5 set bonus for twilight's embrace, boosting my healing received and giving me 5% spell crit (mostly for my finisher.) and the 3 set bonus from the seducer, reducing the cost of spells. I would run set bonuses that give better bonuses for stamina users, but there aren't any (in my opinion).

Night's Silence has a weapon crit (but the health regeneration while hidden is pretty useless in my opinion), Hunding's Rage for stamina and weapon damage and Kagrenac's Hope for stamina recovery are the only other options at the moment really for craft set bonuses for a stamina DPS build.

Yeah not looking good for me going back to this build anytime soon.

Are you using critical surge for health recovery for weapon crits and the precise trait in your weapon for increase crit chance? As I said I was leaning towards trying to make a build similar to the Reaver that someone else has also referred to. Link for those interested http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/the-reaver-a-melee-self-healing-mobile-skirmisher/

I didn't think the speed was necessary for PvE so I was more focused on survivability with things like thundering presence rather than boundless storm but I think the critical surge and maxing your critical chance was one of the most important parts of the build. So if you are using that skill and it is not working I definitely wont be trying it. I hope either way the developers look at stamina builds for all of the classes.

b_archaonpreeb18_ESO

How about you tell us which abilities you have slotted? I've found out that changing one or two around can sometimes turn an impossible fight trivial...

poodlemasterb16_ESO

As well as my Battlemage I have a Vampire Witch, who amazingly can wade in the trash like she never could before.

You have to keep track as you can only Drain Essence once on each enemy, but if your timing is good you can get all the health back you lose, just by standing around in the pack, when you nail a new one. This allows you to spam whatever you please the rest of the time. I've come out of 5 man dustups with more health than when I went in.

rezn0rrwb17_ESO

Ive been melee (2 hand) sorcerer since vr4 now vr9 only because I have both staves at 50 and want to lvl all to 50. I do not use any abilities yet only the weapon itself so no stamina req except to run. I am also a vamp thou and use 5 heavy 1 light …

Vis

Yes you can. It's not the most powerful build but it is still viable. I have both a 2h and a dual wield gear build I bring out to pvp when things are slower.

Carnage2K4

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

No one? Am I the only one who is trying to play this way?

My main Alt is a 2H Sword & 1H+shield Sorc, but I'm only at level 30 with her, so I'm not sure how Vet will go, but it's been a breeze so far, more fun than my DK.

Lynx7386

Melee sorc is definitely fun, but when it comes time for endgame or pvp you're going to fall behind.

The problem isnt on the sorceror side, it's on the melee side. Stamina based builds, and stamina based skills, just suck in general. Take any weapon skill and it will cost more and dish out less damage than any equivalent spell. Magic is just too prevalent right now.

However, the devs have acknowledged that they are working to improve stamina heavy builds and gameplay, and that probably means we'll be seeing boosts to stamina abilities and weapon skills/damage soon.

LordEcks

Lynx7386 wrote: »

However, the devs have acknowledged that they are working to improve stamina heavy builds and gameplay, and that probably means we'll be seeing boosts to stamina abilities and weapon skills/damage soon.

At the risk of sounding lazy can I get a source on this comment?

Curragraigue

Jessica talked about providing a status update (hopefully this week) on ZOS' plans for stamina/weapon builds, Templars and heavy and medium armour in this thread, first page:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/111574/the-upcoming-1-2-content-update-is-an-insult-except-for-nightblades#latest

Gern_Verkheart

I start an engagement by popping critical surge. I try to open an attack from stealth with blood craze, then I use thundering presence and blinding fury. I alternate during the fight between blinding fury and light attacks, making sure to knock down any off balance enemies, and to keep up critical surge, thundering presence, and blood craze. When they get to 20% health I hit them with endless fury to finish them off. If things go badly (and they usually do) I will try to swap to my resto staff and get some heals off. I keep crystal shards on this bar, so I can use it if it pops.

I can take on up to two enemies just fine. But that third is pretty much impossible. There are too many heavy attacks that drain my stamina when dealing with 3 enemies, leaving me defenseless. Not to mention that blocking attacks really doesn't block very much: I have over 2k health, and a blocked heavy attack from a vet-9 enemy will still drop a quarter of my health.

Curragraigue

As I feared sounds a lot like the build I was going to play, thanks for letting me know.

Unfortunate that this build isn't currently viable I hope it gets some attention because I would enjoy playing a melee sorcerer like I did in Oblivion and Skyrim.

dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO

I played an meele style sorc until VR3 but imo he is missing some kind of hard hitting meele range attack as the other classes have.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

My first alt is going to be favored servant of Hircine (Bosmer Sorcerer, built around Werewolf tanking). I'll be going Heavy Armor, Weapon and Shield, and Daedric Summoning for Bound Armor to round out the build.

May not work worth a damn, but I'm looking forward to it after I get my main to VR 12.

Phantax

Sorcerer, heavy armour (health glyphs), Greatsword/resto staff.
(overcharged magicka stat, rest in health)(restore magicka buff for healing only)



1-50 I was a God, VR I'm more of a kitty...lol

So... yes its possible to make it work. You will never be 'optimal' but it does work !

Feimerdre

What about going in with Crit Surge, popping a Volcanic Rune, Thundering Presence, emptying Stamina with AE weapon attacks (Whirlwind?), keeping mobs flying with VR and solo finishing them off with magicka based skills? Dunno as I dont play a melee sorc but that would be pretty much my approach.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

Sword and shield did work for me with resto staff as secondary. It is usable also in PvP as you shield charges helps the team to kill your target. But in 1v1 I would lose like 9/10 fights.

But I still do not have a lot of skills unlocked.

Currently I am leveling bow and medium armor(I want to have everything unlocked)

I learned sourge and now my bow does at least SOME damage. Without this skill my attacks were doing by the look at enemy health bar like 30 dmg. Now I can see some drop on enemy health especialy if I fire from stealth.

But still in full medium and 20 points in stamina 20 points in magicka and 9 in health I can not kill anyone in 1v1. I deal low dmg and waste all my stamina and magicka before I get the enemy even to 50% of HPs.

Will have to see how will things change when I get higher vet rank. 3 seems to be still useless against higher levels. At least for this build. Full cloth and resto staff I can do fine as support even at this level.

Bromburak

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

No one? Am I the only one who is trying to play this way?

Sure i play 5/2 M/L with DW and Crit surge, it gives you the best passive heals and combined with thundering presence and liquid lightning the Sorc is pretty much the most efficient option for aoe melee and real fun to play.

Gelden

Hmm so Dual Wield + Critical surge seems like a viable set up to me. And like Bromburak said you could make a crazy aoe build.

BBSooner

I have a S&S sorc tank who is incredibly fun to play and run dungeons with. He's only 44 though, so I have no experience with VR viability.

Gern_Verkheart

Bromburak wrote: »

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

No one? Am I the only one who is trying to play this way?

Sure i play 5/2 M/L with DW and Crit surge, it gives you the best passive heals and combined with thundering presence and liquid lightning the Sorc is pretty much the most efficient option for aoe melee and real fun to play.

What is your crit rating at? And how do you get it?

I keep crit surge up, but My crit rating is only at 28%, so it doesn't seem to be all that reliable. Also,how are your trait points distributed, and how do you deal with the sorc's lack of stamina regenerating abilities?

I use the thief stone, have full passives in medium armor, and still my crit rating is only at 28%. I put all my trait points in health, and put all stamina enchants on my armor, but my stamina is still only at 1500(ish) without food.

Raash

Ive played DW sorc with med armor from lvl 3 to vet12 and aint stopping. Still I do think it feels kind of weak compared to watching clothies with staff playing with 3+ mobs while 3 vet 8+ mobs usually means death (wearing full legendary btw).
+ might add that i have 52% crit unbuffed

EDIT: its 48% unbuffed, with exploatation its 63%

Bromburak

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

No one? Am I the only one who is trying to play this way?

Sure i play 5/2 M/L with DW and Crit surge, it gives you the best passive heals and combined with thundering presence and liquid lightning the Sorc is pretty much the most efficient option for aoe melee and real fun to play.

What is your crit rating at? And how do you get it?

I keep crit surge up, but My crit rating is only at 28%, so it doesn't seem to be all that reliable. Also,how are your trait points distributed, and how do you deal with the sorc's lack of stamina regenerating abilities?

I use the thief stone, have full passives in medium armor, and still my crit rating is only at 28%. I put all my trait points in health, and put all stamina enchants on my armor, but my stamina is still only at 1500(ish) without food.

Pool:
As long you reach stamina softcap its good enough without gimping your magicka. Because you want to stay magicka strong but flexible just with switching to medium/stamina set.

I would never screw my base (49 attributes).

Some of the sorcs split their attributes to magicka and stamina, or decide for one resource pool only, thats fine but as long softcaps are not raised for Vet levels (it will happen soon) it makes no sense to waste attributes. Its more important to adjust and improve everything with gear instead touching your base.

Crits:
You could raise it with DW passives on daggers (more crits) and use them for aoe but switch to swords for single targets (more damage).
If you want more crits roll a khajiit for racial but imho its not necessary.

The heals are most efficient in aoe melee because you raise your chance from each mob you hit. So the factors are higher attack speed and more mobs.

You don't run out of stamina because you still combine magicka strong class skills like thundering presence and liquid lightning.
In AOE the only stamina based weapon skill you use is whirlwind and you get back at least some stamina for each mob you hit as well.
Solo i prefer blood craze and spark only.

My main is a NB V12 my sorc is only V3 so you might want to get some more experiences from a V10+ sorc with melee spec.