Take away classes

Kattemynte

There are many people on the forums complaining that this class is too OP or bugged. One of my suggestions to help with this is to not keep nerfing this and that but instead get rid of classes altogether.
What I believe would be a good idea is to keep all the subclasses like Daedric Summoning and whatnot but allow everyone to have access to these skills. That way we would truly be play as you want.
I understand this is not a perfect system but I would enjoy being something like a dark Templar who uses assassination skills while healing groups. I have a few veteran rank characters already and found that getting skills lines maxed to 50 take a long time and to max everything would take much much longer. This means that most people would not get the best of every class skill line but would have to choose which lines to take. This system would also be helpful for if they wanted to add like necromancy or bards like in a recent poll. This would mean max characters would not need to make a whole new toon to play these classes but could just respec and level the new ones up.
I would be happy to hear your thoughts. Would this system create new problems like our current system where everyone seems to be using light armor and staffs or would it open a whole new way of playing that everyone could enjoy?
I think this would help with Templars for example with their lack of regen passives because they could trait into a different skill line for those passives. There would be no one OP class, though it opens up for an OP build but some people are not all about the highest damage output.

Blackwidow

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110307/this-is-going-to-sound-crazy-so-please-hear-me-out#latest

mlloyb16_ESO

Man, that would be sick.

Have all skill lines open to everybody - the REAL ES experience.

Love it.

Arsenic_Touch

There should have never been a set class system, we should have been able to select any 3 starting trees and had the opportunity to unlock the rest as you leveled and gained skill points. It would've prompted some very interesting combinations.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Wouldn't really solve any of the issues you mention but it would probably be pretty cool, if not a balance nightmare.

Kattemynte

Blackwidow wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110307/this-is-going-to-sound-crazy-so-please-hear-me-out#latest

This also sounds like a good idea. If you could incorporate this with what I posted then this game could start to be sick. However, content is a different subject. Most bosses are dps races so most people seem to go for highest dps specs.

mlloyb16_ESO

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

There should have never been a set class system, we should have been able to select any 3 starting trees and had the opportunity to unlock the rest as you leveled and gained skill points. It would've prompted some very interesting combinations.

Reminds me of a GW 1 where you could multi-class ranger/necro, but with even more customization.

Imagine how much different a game this would have been.

Moiskormoimi

Previous ES titles have never had set classes so it boggles my mind as to why they chose to use that theme park system.

indytims_ESO

Then the rants would evolve from 'class' comparisons and whining, to 'skill line' comparisons and whining.

Meaning - nothing would really change. In fact, it could be even worse...

In a short amount of time, the 'ultimate builds' would start showing up. People would flock to them in droves - like the sheep people are. THEN when Zeni nerfed the 'ultimate build', you wouldn't just have one class crying - you'd have the bulk of an entire playerbase crying.

mlloyb16_ESO

indytims_ESO wrote: »

Then the rants would evolve from 'class' comparisons and whining, to 'skill line' comparisons and whining.

Meaning - nothing would really change. In fact, it could be even worse...

In a short amount of time, the 'ultimate builds' would start showing up. People would flock to them in droves - like the sheep people are. THEN when Zeni nerfed the 'ultimate build', you wouldn't just have one class crying - you'd have the bulk of an entire playerbase crying.

Honestly, there would be so many options for slottable skills that there would be a niche counter to EVERY build IMO...

Someone using all the siphon skill line with tank skills from DK and Templar to become unkillable?

(I just started playing) - there would be a niche "anti"-heal build for that character.

That's just an example I know that tank DK's and Templars are trash atm.

Liquid_Time

Why not do a PTS test with this option for a few weeks.. See the reactions they get from there.

Ragekniv

Sign me up! I'm all about theory crafting!

Removing classes and making all skill lines available at character creation would be instant class balance!

It's a hell of a lot better option than maintaining the unworkable status quo of woeful imbalance of class sustained DPS and resource mechanics.

Blackwidow

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

Previous ES titles have never had set classes so it boggles my mind as to why they chose to use that theme park system.

People claim ZOS made all these changes because it is a MMO, but that is just flat out wrong.

MMOs have underwater swimming
TES has underwater swimming
ESO has no underwater swimming.

MMOs have good storage space
TES has unlimited storage space
ESO has almost no storage space

MMOs have dueling
TES has dueling
ESO has no dueling

MMOs have arenas
TES has arenas
ESO has no arenas

MMOs have a law system
TES has a law system
ESO has no law system

MMOs have housing
TES has housing
ESO has no housing

MMOs have an open explorable world
TES has an open explorable world
ESO has no open explorable world

The list is too long for me to continue

Aett_Thorn

Allowing access to all skill lines on a single character would probably be a balance nightmare, but I would support being able to choose any three skill lines at character creation, and then maybe being able to choose an additional skill line every 10-20 levels.

Would allow you to have a much more free-form character.

Heck, they can even leave "classes" in the game as sort of "pre-built" skill line collections for newer players.

Grimbim

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Why not do a PTS test with this option for a few weeks.. See the reactions they get from there.

That would be awesome. Back to the roots!

eliisra

I'm all for it. Classes has to big of an impact on game play and roles at the moment. Not the mention all the qq and rage, it's causing.

I'm forced to play my sorc for dps.

I'm forced to play my Templar to heal and support.

I can't do it the other way around. Templar has crap dps, it's way behind other classes. My sorc lacks competitive burst and spot healing, especially problematic in PvP.

Classes could possibly be kept for lore, few passives and perks, I guess. But the skills lines needs to go, or be accessible for everyone.

Nox_Aeterna

Yeap , i support this , would like this game much more without being bind to classes.

Let us train any skill lines we want , would make this much more like a TES game.

crislevin

agreed, strongly I may add, why restricting skills to classes anyway?

Arsenic_Touch

To add to my previous post, they would still have to make stamina more viable but a no class system would work wonders, they could easily add more skill lines as the game goes on, instead of classes, to make your character more customized.

Aett_Thorn

Separating skill lines would also allow them to add just skill lines without having to put out three related ones at a time.

Anath_Q

Yes, this...as it should have been from the start!

Kattemynte

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

To add to my previous post, they would still have to make stamina more viable but a no class system would work wonders, they could easily add more skill lines as the game goes on, instead of classes, to make your character more customized.

I agree that the magicka/stamina skill lines are in need of a change, but that has nothing to do with class skills. Well, there are some passives and skills that help with weapons but looking at possible updates, it seems like these skills will help with magicka skills too =p lol

NerfEverything

Well, this would fix templars finally.

Moiskormoimi

Blackwidow wrote: »

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

Previous ES titles have never had set classes so it boggles my mind as to why they chose to use that theme park system.

People claim ZOS made all these changes because it is a MMO, but that is just flat out wrong.

MMOs have underwater swimming
TES has underwater swimming
ESO has no underwater swimming.

MMOs have good storage space
TES has unlimited storage space
ESO has almost no storage space

MMOs have dueling
TES has dueling
ESO has no dueling

MMOs have arenas
TES has arenas
ESO has no arenas

MMOs have a law system
TES has a law system
ESO has no law system

MMOs have housing
TES has housing
ESO has no housing

MMOs have an open explorable world
TES has an open explorable world
ESO has no open explorable world

The list is too long for me to continue

I would argue that some of those are based on perception. Not all mmos have housing, a law system, underwater swimming, etc. I don't see where TES has ever had 'dueling' as that's a single player entity, and not an mmorpg, nor arenas as far as I can remember. Which one was that? As far as being explorable, I don't see where you're truly hindered. Yes, there's not much incentive for exploring the world, but you can. You might have to deal with higher level creatures but that's every mmo. Creating a list that pertains more to the actual game in comparison might be better served.

ThePonzzz

The problem with letting anyone take on any class line is you're going to just walk away with the best of the best. There would be no balance. They'd have to start from the ground up. Unfortunately, they made their choice with classes, so it's something we have to deal with. Just hold out that spellcrafting is awesome.

Blackwidow

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

I would argue that some of those are based on perception. Not all mmos have housing, a law system, underwater swimming, etc.

I did not say all. I said MMOs have them so saying it is an MMO makes no sense as a reason to not have them in ESO.

I don't see where TES has ever had 'dueling' as that's a single player entity

Ever play skyrim? Ever been in a duel in Skyrim?

nor arenas as far as I can remember.

Oblivion had a huge arena.

As far as being explorable, I don't see where you're truly hindered

You are hindered in almost every way possible. Invisible walls, closed off zones, slaughter fish in the water, closed factions, etc.

A real open world, like TES games is very possible in an MMO. ESO fell very short of what it could have done.

To me, what makes the difference is, in ESO, once you finish a section, you move on and you don't go back. It feels like a constant push forward.

In an open world, you constantly go back to some zones and even major cities a lot.

It allows the world to be more of a social game.

When I log into Skyrim, the only way I hit a wall is if I hit the edge of the game map.

In WoW, I could swim on the ocean a great distance before there was any sign of a zone edge. It just felt more open and I had more freedom to explore. WoW's open world reminds me more of Skyrim than ESO in many ways.

In WoW I could make a dwarf at first level and travel across the whole world to meet a elf in his starting area if I wanted to, and did that on more than one occasion.

In ESO you are stuck in one place. No open world. No meeting others in different starting areas.

No major cities where 1st-50th level characters can meet up.

Yes, EQ, WoW and many other MMOs gave complete freedom to travel all over the world.

Swordguy

there are a great lot of us that want to see classes gone, and have all the skill lines available for one character. trying to balance a bunch of classes is a lot harder and time consuming (and therefore costly) than nerfing the most OP builds once a month, and making "flavour of the month" a literal thing. this is how you keep things fresh for the min-maxers, as well as free up a ton of dev time to fix bugs and make new content faster.

Preachan

Yeah - having a class system is one of the main weaknesses which limits my fun while playing. I love free character systems, no matter if talking of RPG, MMORPG, Pen&Paper RPG,... I want to be able to try around with a character, optimize, look for builds.
And I don't want to be limited by classes.
TSW spoiled MMOs with classes for me.

AngryNord

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

Previous ES titles have never had set classes so it boggles my mind as to why they chose to use that theme park system.

Where do people get this from???? YES, previous ES titles DID have classes, the only exceptions were Redguard and Skyrim

ThePonzzz

AngryNord wrote: »

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

Previous ES titles have never had set classes so it boggles my mind as to why they chose to use that theme park system.

Where do people get this from???? YES, previous ES titles DID have classes, the only exceptions were Redguard and Skyrim

Depends on your definition of a class...

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:ClassMaker

So while, yes, you had classes, they weren't rigid, and there were always ways to customize.

Gedalya

How about more classes?