Is Dual Wielding really underpowered?

Anrai_Indoril

I started off dual wielding with my DK because the Dark Elves have bonus xp with it - I haven't really had any issues with it, but I haven't seen any of the end game yet. I'm level 30 and find the DPS to be fine, most fights go smoothly. Could anyone give me any insight into this?

I'm also just using DPS for levelling, I'm levelling one hand and shield for tanking in the long run.

lecarcajou_ESO

The trouble with dual wielding as I see it is that, to get the most use out of it, we have to basically abandon 50% or more of your class abilities to make room for DW on our dinky skill bar(s).

Anrai_Indoril

Yeh I can see that, I'm only using two dual wield abilities at the moment, along with empowering chains, igneous weapons and burning embers.

But isn't it the case for most skill lines that you can't fit most of it on the bar?

ebondeath

DW 1-50 feels fine. It's when you get to VR content that it starts to feel a bit like you're hitting with pool fun-noodles. I stick with it because it like it though.

Phantax

Not as underpowered as two-handed !
How can you possibly have a single hand weapon that deals almost as much damage as a two-handed?

ShedsHisTail

Yeah, as others have stated, DW is fine 1-50; once you reach VR levels and survival becomes more dependent on your ability to dodge, block and interrupt... Having all your skills using the same resource (STA) as your dodging, blocking and interrupting results in you being relegated to light attacks most of the time and often lying in the dirt.

Obscure

Not underpowered at all. All comes down to proper application...and never using Flurry, that skill is utter garbage (actually did a video damage test between it and basic attacks and out DPSed it substantially with basics). Ember Explosion + Elude + Cinder Storm = Amazing though. Focus on AoE, it's the skill lines strong suit.

badmojo

I've had a lot more fun with it since switching to two sets of daggers, rather than having a destro staff as backup, which I barely ever used. With two sets you can get all those abilities slotted.

Darastix

well i'm not sure what is considered under or overpowered in the DPS area, but i'm duel wielding swords and I average 150 Damage Per Second at level 44 using 1 class skill and one DW skill as my primary attacks

zgrssd

First, I would never let the Free Racial passive define my playstyle. It allows you to hit level 50 with that skill faster, but after that it is entirely useless.
I look for the other racials and how they can support a role without running into caps. Those actually have a value that stays with you.

Second, it is common knowledge that all Stamina skills are current not competitive to mana skills in lategame or PvP (where optimised builds are a common thing).
It's an unfortunate missbalancing of the game, but I have totally expected stuff like this in a newly launched MMO.
Currently they are working on bringing the classes more on the same line. Afterwards the PvE and stam/mana balance will propably be the goal.
They are currently working on the 1.2 patch on the PTS.

murklor007neb18_ESO

Dual weilding is just fine, as long as you only use your magicka abilities.

ShedsHisTail

murklor007neb18_ESO wrote: »

Dual weilding is just fine, as long as you only use your magicka abilities.

...

Tavore1138

Its viable for PvE and PvP, I have taken a DW NB to VR9 in my second alliance but it is also one of the harder builds to play with once you get to the super powered groups of 3 plus in mid VR onwards. You can certainly manage most bosses solo but if I want to relax a bit and not have to sneak everywhere other skills might be easier.

Svann

You cant solo public dungeons like a sorc, but solo dungeons you should do just fine. That is, 2 mobs trivial, 3 mobs ok if you have ultimate up, 5 mobs not so well.

temjiu

murklor007neb18_ESO wrote: »

Dual weilding is just fine, as long as you only use your magicka abilities.

that one made me chuckle.

Seriously, the only people I see who support DW are those who either:

1) use PERHAPS one skill from the tree, rest are class skills (a.k.a they aren't really playing a weapon based spec), or
2) are still in NON-VR content. a.k.a. the trip from 1-50.

I loved my 2h Temp 1-50. challenge was just enough that solid execution of my skills kept me alive and allowed me to survive. skills were fun enough and did enough damage that I could kill stuff before it killed me

VR content? nope. dead in the water.

Stamina skills simply underperform right now due to their resource being double dipped. if you switched blocking and interrupting to magick, you would see 10x more people griping about the game and leaving it. it's simply horribad design. They either need to remove the dodge mechanics to a different "isolated" resource, or move weapon skills over to the magic tree just like staffs are.

Is it surprising that the only "weapon" skill lines that are effective in a healthy way post VR are the ones that use the mechanic that ISN'T burdened by critical mitigation skills? Not to me...

Syntse

My DW NB basically has 1 weapon skill and 4 class skills. My "melee" DK also has 1 weapon and 4 class on bar.

Only exception is the NB 2nd weapon which is bow and has 5 weapon skills on bar.

babylon

I just came here to question why this is not a poll.

Anrai_Indoril

I appreciate the advice, this has given me a lot of insight into the end game. I've heard people having problems with the balancing in almost every aspect of the game which is unfortunate.

My VR skill line will most likely be one hand and shield - how does this fair? Also I guess it's hard to suggest what people should be using at max level due to so many skill lines. Would it be safe to assume that class skills are more commonly used than weapon skills?

Loco_Mofo

DW is fine if you don't care about your DPS or survivability.

Anrai_Indoril

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

DW is fine if you don't care about your DPS or survivability.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

Tavore1138

They could add a certain something by giving weapon trees an ultimate like class skills, war skills, guilds & world skills do.

ShedsHisTail

Actually, would be really nice if they just upped the Stamina recovery from Whirling Blades. Do those stack? Does anyone know?

Whirling blades gives back X stamina every 2 seconds over 10 seconds +65% per enemy hit.

Say it give back 20 Stamina +65% per enemy and you hit 3 enemies, that should be approximately 54 Stamina every 2 seconds, or 270 Stamina over ten seconds.

Right?

Or would it be 46 every two, up to 230 over ten? I'm not sure how the game stacks percentages.

Either way, with a cost of 49 Stamina per use, as long as I'm not spinning more than every two seconds (and hitting 3 enemies per spin), I should be able to spin almost indefinitely. And that's just not the case, I run out of stamina so fast using this skill it's not even funny.

These values are all based on the values presented at:
http://esobuild.com/?MwbjDpxAmAubzAAwUm96gA==

glitchmaster999

Obscure wrote: »

Not underpowered at all. All comes down to proper application...and never using Flurry, that skill is utter garbage (actually did a video damage test between it and basic attacks and out DPSed it substantially with basics). Ember Explosion + Elude + Cinder Storm = Amazing though. Focus on AoE, it's the skill lines strong suit.

Not disagreeing but I pull 570 dps with flurry when I run dual wield... I use dual wielding for long boss sustained dps just basically dotting and spamming flurry.

Anrai_Indoril

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

Not underpowered at all. All comes down to proper application...and never using Flurry, that skill is utter garbage (actually did a video damage test between it and basic attacks and out DPSed it substantially with basics). Ember Explosion + Elude + Cinder Storm = Amazing though. Focus on AoE, it's the skill lines strong suit.

Not disagreeing but I pull 570 dps with flurry when I run dual wield... I use dual wielding for long boss sustained dps just basically dotting and spamming flurry.

I have found flurry to do quite high dps as well - along with dots from dual wield and ardent flame it runs ok. Are you using dual wield in the VR areas or just levelling?

Loco_Mofo

Anrai_Indoril wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

DW is fine if you don't care about your DPS or survivability.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

I know, don't know whether to laugh or cry myself.

Gisgo

Obscure wrote: »

Not underpowered at all. All comes down to proper application...and never using Flurry, that skill is utter garbage (actually did a video damage test between it and basic attacks and out DPSed it substantially with basics). Ember Explosion + Elude + Cinder Storm = Amazing though. Focus on AoE, it's the skill lines strong suit.

That video damage test is a joke.
I play the game at VR12 rather than streaming it at VR2 and Flurry DPS absolutely destroys regular attacks, my Blinding strikes does 850+ dmg with no crits, its not even a contest with regular attacks.

Moot point anyway, since the best is alternating skills and light attacks.

SilverWF

Anrai_Indoril wrote: »

Is Dual Wielding really underpowered?

Not at all! This is fine and powerful weapon.

Woolenthreads

Phantax wrote: »

Not as underpowered as two-handed !
How can you possibly have a single hand weapon that deals almost as much damage as a two-handed?

LOL. Check the basic Dagger value. It's equal to the basic Sword value.

Obscure

@Gisgo
I have video evidence, you don't. Burden of proof is on you pal.

Sounds like you want me to do an updated video of me at VR10 proving you wrong. But while I'm at it feel free to substantiate your accusations with, well, Substance.

ShedsHisTail

SilverWF wrote: »

Anrai_Indoril wrote: »

Is Dual Wielding really underpowered?

Not at all! This is fine and powerful weapon.

You're going to have to make a decision, homie.
In this thread you're saying DW is totally fine and powerful... In another thread you're saying this game has no place for Stamina builds.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110070/light-armor-staff-3-solutions#latest

You can't have both.

SilverWF

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

You're going to have to make a decision, homie.
In this thread you're saying DW is totally fine and powerful... In another thread you're saying this game has no place for Stamina builds.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110070/light-armor-staff-3-solutions#latest

You can't have both.

I've said: there is no place for pure stamina builds.
DW is good weapon but if someone will try to use only stamina based skills - he will failed, obviously
Because this game was designed like that and I'm totally OK with it.