'Removing From Area...'

Merlin13KAGL

Finished off Wayrest Sewers via Wayshrine from AD. Dungeon was clear (all enemies wiped including final boss) and did not see the two chests that are supposed to be in each instance, so decided to go looking.

The other two group members had logged off, so as not to impede them when they returned later (it's a pain kicking an offline member sometimes, especially if the group leader doesn't register properly), I disbanded the group. (Again, they had already left the dungeon and logged out entirely)

I had intended to go back through and check boxes, heavy sacks, and try to find the chests since all was clear...

Instead, I received an onscreen notice 'Removing from area...' with what appeared to be a load timer. I assumed this was a glitch regarding something I had moused over or something and continued in my search.

Less than a minute later, I got the final ticking noise, timer expired, and out the door I was booted...

I was mildly surprised, and at the same time, understanding.

I realize this was implemented as an anti-*** mechanism for a group member not playing nice (and getting booted) to not be allowed to sabotage the remaining dungeon for the rest of the group, and I commend that function.

I did however take minor issue to my circumstance...the dungeon was clear and group members had departed...I should have had all the time in the world to peruse the contents of the dungeon I had just helped complete. (It's not as if I was deceptive or intended to keep anything from the other members.)

So, just be advised, if you intend to loot after and your group members do not, do not exit the group unless you intend to exit the dungeon!

Axer

Actaully if they all just left as commonly puggers do, youd also get booted, even if it's a group you created and lead.

Two needed fixes:
-The group leader should NEVER get kicked from his own instance under any circumstance.
-And once an instance is complete, no one should be kickable thats still inside and online. (would help prevent greifing)

brandon

I don't personally like this decision. I'm the type of person who likes to go back and read the books in each area, however a lot of players will just disband after completing a dungeon which then boots you. I can't read the books on the run through the dungeon because everyone rushes through it. I wouldn't mind it so much if it only did that before you finished the area. I just don't like that it happens even when you complete the entire area. Its not such a great design choice.

Merlin13KAGL

@Axer‌, @brandon, I agree.

You just cleared the dungeon...

You should be able to sit there and roast Guar-dogs at the campfire if you want to.

TheGrandAlliance

Yes... well for other reasons I just completely gave up on VR dungeons all together...

_subjectnamehere_

brandon wrote: »

I don't personally like this decision. I'm the type of person who likes to go back and read the books in each area, however a lot of players will just disband after completing a dungeon which then boots you. I can't read the books on the run through the dungeon because everyone rushes through it. I wouldn't mind it so much if it only did that before you finished the area. I just don't like that it happens even when you complete the entire area. Its not such a great design choice.

The reason why ZOS implemented the "removing from area" feature is to stop griefers. There were videos posted on youtube of group members not even fighting during encounters; they would just run to loot the chests instead of be part of the group (grant ya, this is before they nerfed the amount of chests, but also made it so everyone could get loot from them).

Okay...this is happening, and then your party gets mad. You kick that member from the group and want to grab someone else. If you kicked said member, the dungeon would allow them to stay inside the dungeon and would NOT allow you to bring in another person because there were already four people inside the instance...grouped or not.

So...I support this feature.

However, I do agree with the OP. If you want to go back and read/hunt for loot, you can't unless you stay grouped. You could, however, snag a guild member or friend and ask them to form a group with you for the sole purpose of letting you wander the empty dungeon. This does work, whether or not that other guy was in your party to begin with.

Hope this helps

brandon

_subjectnamehere_ wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

I don't personally like this decision. I'm the type of person who likes to go back and read the books in each area, however a lot of players will just disband after completing a dungeon which then boots you. I can't read the books on the run through the dungeon because everyone rushes through it. I wouldn't mind it so much if it only did that before you finished the area. I just don't like that it happens even when you complete the entire area. Its not such a great design choice.

The reason why ZOS implemented the "removing from area" feature is to stop griefers. There were videos posted on youtube of group members not even fighting during encounters; they would just run to loot the chests instead of be part of the group (grant ya, this is before they nerfed the amount of chests, but also made it so everyone could get loot from them).

Okay...this is happening, and then your party gets mad. You kick that member from the group and want to grab someone else. If you kicked said member, the dungeon would allow them to stay inside the dungeon and would NOT allow you to bring in another person because there were already four people inside the instance...grouped or not.

So...I support this feature.

However, I do agree with the OP. If you want to go back and read/hunt for loot, you can't unless you stay grouped. You could, however, snag a guild member or friend and ask them to form a group with you for the sole purpose of letting you wander the empty dungeon. This does work, whether or not that other guy was in your party to begin with.

Hope this helps

@_subjectnamehere_
It helps somewhat. I get that it's to stop griefers, but why does it have to happen after you clear the dungeon. Why can't it boot you up until you beat everything inside of it.

Merlin13KAGL

@_subjectnamehere_‌, as @brandon‌ and other posters indicate, we understand the griefer aspect and understand, (and appreciate) that aspect. We're not wanting the feature removed, just adjusted.

We've all been in circumstances where a group member isn't fitting for the wrong reasons.

I've never known the game to allow you to bring in a different group member once the dungeon has begun, due to the phasing issue. As a minimum, the new member gets no credit for anything inside and effectively has little reason to join at that point, other than the looting possibility. There is minimal time to make this happen anyway.

Also, if you are utilizing a friend/guildmate for this, odds are, they are already in the dungeon run with you.

It doesn't even matter, the way it's currently coded, that you remain in a group. If your other member exit, the timer starts.

Mid-dungeon, the feature is not in question. It is, in fact, a welcomed addition. The issue is once the dungeon has been cleared - main bosses, at least... Once the primary purpose behind the dungeon is no longer there, if there are any remaining trash mobs, it will take care of itself.

Either your character will be able to handle them, and thus reasonable to allow you to peruse the dungeon at your leisure, or you'll die (at which time, it can res you outside).

An empty dungeon is an empty dungeon. It's instance specific, so you are not affecting others' experience, and I sincerely doubt it puts so much strain on the server that it causes issue. A simple flag check to see that the bosses or X% of the creatures within have been dispatched would allow this.

Once the containers are empty, they're empty. Nothing respawns, so exit is inevitable. Group members shouldn't have to linger for you, but you shouldn't get booted because they have moved on, either.

shadowz081

I'll say keep the feature for now, because some of the dungeons have a bug that won't let you re-spawn at all when you die, because the NPC following you is fighting and simply won't 'die' after you and your party get wiped, and you will have to watch them either stand there and do nothing and chip away at the boss hp at a rate of 100 or so damage every 10-20 sec.

This has happened to me a few times when I ran dungeon, and usually if that happens we would quit and restart if we had time, which can be annoying, but during one run in vet spindle, where this bug occurred, I simply left the party and waited for the dungeon to kick me and I re-spawned outside, before messaging the lead to re-invite me, where I re-entered the dungeon to revive everyone so we could continue on without restarting.

So until the spawn bug is fixed, I'll say keep it or adjust it so they don't auto kick when you finish.

reggielee

same here, just ran vaults of madness for the first time with a pug that wanted to speed run it. No time to read quests let alone even search for the chests. So I just bit the bullet thinking I'll go back later and do a good look see, take some time to enjoy the graphics, raid urns for recipes etc.

no go... I was auto booted after they left the dungeon. sucked big time

natsuki

mmm.. from the sound of it, I think it's broken even for the mid-clearing case.
IMHO, at no time should the group get auto-disbanded if all but one member leaves or logs out. And it shouldn't matter if any of those players that left were group lead.. lead just gets passed to the remaining player(s).
Then, explicitly disbanding the group should cause anyone still in there to get auto-kicked out regardless of the population state of the instance (all bosses down or no bosses). Seems like a simple thing to me, group disband always explicit, anyone not in a group alywas get's kicked out. Still prevents the griefing and lets players explore after they are finished.

Merlin13KAGL

shadowz081 wrote: »

I'll say keep the feature for now, because some of the dungeons have a bug that won't let you re-spawn at all when you die, because the NPC following you is fighting and simply won't 'die' after you and your party get wiped, and you will have to watch them either stand there and do nothing and chip away at the boss hp at a rate of 100 or so damage every 10-20 sec.

@shadowz081, we're not talking about a circumstance where there is anything left that could kill you (short of jumping off a cliff). I suppose if you are the last one remaining and this happens, your death should port you to an outside wayshrine (effectively, you're done here).

There is a reverse effect in Elden Hollow (AD L30), if you die in that one, the spawn point is mid dungeon. This is great if you've already cleared out the front - you don't have as far to run.

It sucks if you're a level 20 that wondered in there just to see what's up and get a Dragon standard planted on your right foot...(I might be speaking from experience here...)

@natsuki‌, It was well intentioned and fixes one problem, but creates another.

Simply put, it should not allow two groups at the same time. Programmatically, this is the check that needs to happen. As soon as someone departs the group inside, they get booted - fixes the griefing issue.

Party members leaving (at the end), you're right - shouldn't matter. Cleared out dungeon or not cleared out dungeon...you can either handle it or you can't. You can't, you die. You die, you get booted.

Someone that wants to exit shouldn't have to linger so someone can check gear. Someone who wants to check gear shouldn't have to rely on someone lingering.

The feature has purpose, but it needs to be tweaked a little bit.

(At one time, you could walk into a group dungeon as a one man group...and I believe you still can. Further more, if you can handle it, more power to you. You're going to be ranked high enough that you won't get XP's and I can't imagine farming boss drops being worth the remaining mobs, at any level.)